Working Designs is gone.

J

Jack

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Edit: Interviews with Victor Ireland regarding the end of Working Designs:
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/rpg/growlansergenerations/news.html?sid=6141225
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1867&Itemid=2 (thanks radjago)



I can't say I didn't see it coming. This was posted by Victor Ireland on the Working Designs message boards yesterday:

[quote name='Victor Ireland']First of all, sorry for being incommunicado for such a long time. It's been a busy time, as you'll see.

There's no easy way to say it, so I just will. Working Designs is gone. All the staff has been laid off and the office is closed and has been for some time. Yes, the website is still here, and I am going to do my best to keep it tucked away somewhere on the 'net so it doesn't become an illicit domain. (Of course, some of the haters may be of the mind that it's been illicit all along, heh!).

The most frustrating part of all of this is that I know that our fanbase is still there. Growlanser Generations sold well, but of course not better than it would have sold as two separate titles. We just spent too much time fighting the good fight to even get it out, and other games approved.

Though almost finished and substantially improved from the Japanese release, Goemon is dead for the US, and that was really the final straw. If I can't guarantee that the games I personally choose for us to release in the US can actually get approved and come out, there's no business to be done. There is a possibility that it may be released in Europe (as well as Growlanser Generations), but nothing is finalized yet.

I know many of you will have lots of questions, and there will be some I can answer, and some I can't. Sony has made it clear that they do not want the details of their dealings with any publisher made public. Suffice to say that you would buy what we wanted to sell if we could sell it.

I want to thank each and every one of you personally for being a fan, buying the games we released, and telling your friends. You HAVE made a difference, because you bought the crazy things we did. Thanks to YOU, there are deluxe packs, pack-in soundtracks, better packaging, great hint guides, and better localizations in general. We said it a lot, but it really was true. We were nothing without you.

For the future, there are still great opportunities. I have been in touch with a number of other publishers and manufacturers and I will be working with some of the WD staff to do games for other publishers for the time being, but not as Working Designs. One thing that holds a ton of promise is XBOX 360 RPGs, and I've contacted Microsoft about getting what's underway in Japan out in the US and helping to get more done worldwide. We'll see what happens on that front, but please let them know that YOU WANT MORE JRPGs here. There's some amazing stuff coming for the '360 in Japan, and I know I want it - I think you will, too.

Thanks for everything. It's a tough road ahead for games that aren't of the least-common-denominator variety. The choices you make with your hardware dollars are more important than ever for the generation that is upon us.

With that, I bid all of us...

...Good night, and Good Luck.[/quote]
 
Given that WD was a company who basically lived making niche games that a very small percentage of the gaming public bought, and those games were often delayed at least a year, and given that Sony USA hates 2d games, I am not surprised to see this at all
 
Well, it started off sad, but those comments about bringing Japanese RPGs to the X360 certainly perked my ears up. That is awesome news.
 
working designs was one of the best publishers if not the best... I hate sony....bastards. They brought us great rpgs that would have never come here any other way. They added there own stlye and humor into the games (instead of translating jokes that weren't intended for Americans). I am going to miss them. They went far and beyound what publishers normally do. Pretty soon the onlythird party publisher we will have is EA. This is very bad to for gamers... Just imagine first party games and ea games...the future is grim
 
They really didnt do all that much this current generation. Silpheed, Gungriffon Blaze, and Growlanser. They certainly knew how to put together a fancy package, but they werent called 'Working Delays' for nothing.

Atlus and NIS America have been picking up the slack well. NISA is putting out Atelier Iris 2 in 2006, only a year after Atelier Iris 1.

And bringing over 360 RPGs? As long as they're not putting together special editions that cost MORE than the new MSRP of 59.99. My wallet cries. This also assumes that the 360 is going to get JRPG support, beyond the likes of Blue Dragon which will come over anyway.

I wonder if the Price of WD games is going to shoot through the roof now?
Click to expand...

Somehow I doubt it, but at the very least they'll stay high since theres no longer a threat of a reprint, right?

Edit: Come to think of it, they shouldve jumped on the reprint bandwagon like everyone else, but earlier. If they had reprinted Lunar, it wouldve sold.
 
Im not surprised, but I am saddened. More than ever this shores up my commitment to buy niche games new, so that my dollars are counted. And to never buy new the mainstream, yearly updated, licensed commercial crap that EA and Activision and others put out.

The comments about X360 development intrigue me. MS would be smart to get together a team of ex Working Design employees. They sorely need more japanese titles for their system. And for me, WD type ports of quirky japanese titles would definitely help me lean toward a 360 purchase.
 
When I sold Growlanser Generations to a CAG yesterday, it was trading for about $20 used on Amazon. Now it's $35. I liked it, but it's not really my kind of game, so I'm not upset.
 
:sad: This is terrible news. I was a very big fan of WD's work. Lunar is great (now just to track a more complete version than my disc-only from GC). Going to go and buy the GG Deluxe as soon as I get out today. Still know of a place that has some. This makes me very sad. I always wanted to work for someone like them. Loved how they had the niche market, but they never really expanded or tried to take it over.
 
I was wondering why nobodys been answering the phone there for over a month.

And its probably why Victor Ireland was selling a lot of WD stuff on ebay.

This is directly attributable to SCEA not wanting certain games (2d, some RPGs, niche titles) in America. WD goes out and makes a deal with Konami to localize Goemon. They make the investment, spend the money, get the job almost done, and then, SCEA decides from on high that they won't allow it to be released here. That pretty much puts WD out of business, they won't see a dime from that investment.

I hope MS gets involved in this somehow, hopefully he does get into localization of JRPG's for 360. Its a sad day.
 
Damn, this is sad. I always had much respect for WD, such a great company. It's good to know they will still be working in the industry.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']SCEA decides from on high that they won't allow it to be released here. That pretty much puts WD out of business, they won't see a dime from that investment.[/QUOTE]

Overt Japanese Racism and a desire to keep many titles from reaching the states? or, do you suppose this is trying to cultivate an image for the US PS2?

As an aside, I was actually just thinking about WD yesterday. WOndering what exactly happened to them. If I'm not mistaken, a lot of purists really didn't like how WD took a few liberties with the scripts, say, the mention of Wheaties in Lunar SSSC
 
This sucks. I wasn't very interested in anything they did this generation, but they brought me both Lunar games, and for that I'm eternally greatful.

It makes me sad to see a company with so much heart bow out like this...you will be missed, WD.
 
[quote name='Blind the Thief']This sucks. I wasn't very interested in anything they did this generation, but they brought me both Lunar games, and for that I'm eternally greatful.[/QUOTE]

Correction: All 4
 
Dang, that's too bad. I love the stuff they brought over to the U.S. I'm going to miss them. However, the XB360 thingie looks interesting...
 
[quote name='dafoomie']And its probably why Victor Ireland was selling a lot of WD stuff on ebay.[/QUOTE]

Just curious, what was his eBay name? I'd love to look up his completed auctions to see what kind of trinkets he sold. I used to have it written down somewhere but lost it.
 
working designs kicked ass :(
i remember i had loads of fun with vanguard bandits (Awesom strategy rpg!)
the xbox 360 rpg deal got me interested tho :)
 
He shouldve announced their departure BEFORE selling that stuff on Ebay. And also signing everything. That right there wouldve saved the company.

not really
 
I'm playing through Lunar: SSSC and it's pretty good - I like the high production quality. The script has it's LOL points, for sure. I'm not sure what kind of liberties WD took on the script but I think it's turning out pretty well.

I think I'll start to miss them when I finish this and Eternal Blue.

Poor Rig, I bet he's going to be upset. :whistle2:(
 
Yeah, screw Sony! Those 3 niche titles Working Designs put out in the last 5 years were bringing in the the money faster than it could be printed.
 
Damnit... I wish I would of visited them before it was all over... they are right in my city...

My dad will be pissed (he was a voice for one of their games)...
 
I was wondering what happend to those Saints of game publishing and localization. That SUCKS, but it's good to finally know what happend. I remember when those guys first started up... their locatlizations were shining beacons in the sewer of mediocre translations back then.
 
I really hope MS can find a place for Vic and his staff, as they would be the prefect peopel to bring over blue dragon.

it is sad what they have to go through with sony. Having to relase Arc the Lad and Growlanser probably doesnt help.

Edit: Dont forgot how much sega screw them over too.
 
This is possibly the saddest day in the history of american gaming. fuck you sony. I have been buying WD games since the Turbografx, and each and every one was a quality product. That is more than I can say for pretty much any other publisher ever. I truely hope he forms a new company to bring over 360 rpgs. Otherwise, it is likely that no one else will... I just hope the 360 launch lineup (8 sports titles, 10 if you count pure racing-of 18) is not indicitive of the future of gaming. I love hockey and racing and all, but goddammit, I want my old school, turn-based RPGs.
 
I'll repeat what others have said; this is a winning scenario for WD and Microsoft. They've already shown that they are willing to house and fund developers who don't seem to abide by any concept of "development phase" (Rare, Bungie). Given the quality of titles WD does (although they're all ports, unlike Rare and Bungie), those three developers could be crucial to the 360's success.

The only way it would matter in Japan is if the parent company developed for 360. If I understand the company situation correctly, the problem stems between Sony of America and Working Designs; that is, there are no problems in Japan (is that correct?).

The GS article linked to a spat between Ireland and Sega during the Saturn's shelf life, where he mentioned L:SSSC for Saturn (so perhaps they are more involved than just ports, as that was never released for Saturn in the US).

WD is a company that sticks to its ideals and focuses on a niche market; on top of that, Ireland is *damn* eloquent, and I like that. Regretfully, this is a lessons for game companies: be creative and die; make mass market pap and thrive.

That's not a lesson I'm particularly fond of.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']They really didnt do all that much this current generation. Silpheed, Gungriffon Blaze, and Growlanser. They certainly knew how to put together a fancy package, but they werent called 'Working Delays' for nothing.

Atlus and NIS America have been picking up the slack well. NISA is putting out Atelier Iris 2 in 2006, only a year after Atelier Iris 1.[/quote]

I think this really edged out WD. Their niche market started to shrink over the years, as other companies brought their own titles to the US market. As that happened, WD's pool of quality titles started to shrink as well. Coupled with the fact that they took forever to release product, their audience would forget about them and move on to the next title released by Atlus, or Namco, or whatever.

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']And bringing over 360 RPGs? As long as they're not putting together special editions that cost MORE than the new MSRP of 59.99. My wallet cries. This also assumes that the 360 is going to get JRPG support, beyond the likes of Blue Dragon which will come over anyway.[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't get this either. Although there is undoubtedly some work being done behind the scenes with X360 Japanese development, we've pretty much seen what Japan has to offer and it's not much that's not already coming to the US (Genki please bring Shutokou Battle to the US). So I don't really know where the opportunity would be. At least with the PS2 (and PS3), Japanese developers would risk less to develop for the Sony consoles, therefore that's why we see so many quirky Japanese titles that never make it to US shores. With the X360, it's pretty much all mainstream development right now from Japan.

Jeremy
 
It's sort of a pity, they always gave out some of the sweetest schwag at E3 like those hand puppet punching dolls from Lunar =(. It makes sense though since they released games that were pretty old and some of thier localization dubbing was horrid. They did try to bring some niche titles over which was nice
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'll repeat what others have said; this is a winning scenario for WD and Microsoft. They've already shown that they are willing to house and fund developers who don't seem to abide by any concept of "development phase" (Rare, Bungie). Given the quality of titles WD does (although they're all ports, unlike Rare and Bungie), those three developers could be crucial to the 360's success.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. Personally, I was thinking that since WD had a lot of experience with bringing over shooters to the US as well (the Ray series, Thunder Force V, Silpheed, etc.) that if MS picks them up one of the first things to do would be to flesh out Marketplace more by acquiring the rights to most of the latest shooters being released in Japan and some from a few years ago for Marketplace consumption. Some good starters? I think a nice start with Raiden III would do well. Toss out a dozen or so major shooters for $10 a pop or so in points...I'd be down with that ASAP.

Regardless, I must agree that this is not where I want things to head. Granted, more and more companies are releasing their niche titles, that's true. However, only a bare minimum of those games are getting the sort of promotion and quality backing that WD titles used to get. There's a world of difference in the production values in, say, Katamari Damacy than in...ugh...Mobile Light Force 2 (hell, even Castle Shikigami 2, also from XG). At least I could always turns to WD to find some little title that was worth picking up, despite small releases and little word-of-mouth at times.

God...I'm going to go cope by playing some more Elemental Gearbolt.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'll repeat what others have said; this is a winning scenario for WD and Microsoft. They've already shown that they are willing to house and fund developers who don't seem to abide by any concept of "development phase" (Rare, Bungie). Given the quality of titles WD does (although they're all ports, unlike Rare and Bungie), those three developers could be crucial to the 360's success.

.[/QUOTE]
WD is not a developer, they are a publisher. However MS will need someone to translate their RPGs like Blue Dragon, and I think the WD staff would be prefect for it. The only problem is that WD is known for delay, so MS have to be ready for that.
 
Also, if Vic were to work for MS in translating RPG games like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, I don't see him lasting long. The thing is, he gets angered very easily (He's gotten mad at Sega and Sony). Especially with him not being the head of a publishing company, he may be forced to translate something he doesn't want to, and that would probably make him angry (He only translates stuff he loves).

Everything that has been said does NOT guarntee he'll be working for MS. He mentioned MS because they'll be needing people to translate Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. He's still looking at other publishers. And if he wants to help publish an RPG for X360, it may not be lasting long, especially with how bad X360 is bombing Japan right now (It won't get too much better even with DoA4). Although, having RPG games on X360 might make me like it, since I kind of hated Xbox because it had NONE.

I do seriously think he blows Sony's anti-2-D way out of proportional. Sony allowed NIS America to release Phantom Brave, Makai Kingdom, and Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana recently. Atlus has released 2-D games stateside, along with Mastiff llc, Sega with Shining Tears. None of those games were discounted or bundled together. I just think Vic gives SCEA a rough time over stuff, making them deny the game.
 
[quote name='Samurai T']He's still looking at other publishers. And if he wants to help publish an RPG for X360, it may not be lasting long, especially with how bad X360 is bombing Japan right now (It won't get too much better even with DoA4).[/QUOTE]

I wonder about the "bombing" of the 360 in Japan, though, since it's the 13th right now and Bloomberg reports that more than 1/3 (somewhere in the 60Ks, if I recall) of the 150,000 360s available in Japan have already been sold. Granted, those probably aren't big numbers considering three days out and all, but it sounds a little bit removed from a failure.

[Edit:] Eh, what am I thinking? I'm just going solely with numbers here when these things always are more than just numbers. My apologies, there's definitely more to this than the thought I originally gave it. Stupid finals, eschewing my usual thirst for knowledge...
 
WD brought over great games and packaged them very well.

Their translations sucked though, I do not want an Americanized version of a Japanese game. I believe in the creator's intent over all in terms of content.
 
SCEA also gave SNK a hard time, so working designs is not the only one.

[quote name='dental_regurgitation']Their translations sucked though, I do not want an Americanized version of a Japanese game. I believe in the creator's intent over all in terms of content.[/QUOTE]

One of the most common misunderstanding. Take Lunar for example. They followed the Japanese version very closely, and only make change when it is a Japanese joke that no one would get. The only change they made are for NPC people that otherwise have no important role. Remeber they are the one fighting to keep the Japanese names from Rayearth while the anime distributer wants to americanize the names. People that can read Japanese agree that they did a great job with their translations.
 
[quote name='Samurai T']
I do seriously think he blows Sony's anti-2-D way out of proportional. Sony allowed NIS America to release Phantom Brave, Makai Kingdom, and Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana recently. Atlus has released 2-D games stateside, along with Mastiff llc, Sega with Shining Tears. None of those games were discounted or bundled together. I just think Vic gives SCEA a rough time over stuff, making them deny the game.[/QUOTE]

While its possible that Sony didnt get along well with Vic, there is some evidence, gathered by inviduals like you and me, and smaller media outlets like Etoychest.org, that point to Sony not letting NIS make Makai Wars for the PSP, for whatever reason, the renments of which later became Makai Kingdom. I personally believe this theory, and I can point anyone to other people who can explain it better than I can, should anyone like to know more.

The now former Working Delays staff will or may eventually be employed elsewhere, but it looks like some or maybe none of them will be overseen by the Vickster anymore, so we'll see how that goes. Nintendo might eventually need translators, but no one knows anything about Nintendo yet, so there wont be any discussion on it until it occurs, if at all.

In any case, if the former WD staff works somewhere else, you would probably never know unless you really really did your homework, whether or not the former WD staff had anything to do with it. Not unless they decide to form a new company.
 
[quote name='Samurai T']Also, if Vic were to work for MS in translating RPG games like Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, I don't see him lasting long. The thing is, he gets angered very easily (He's gotten mad at Sega and Sony). Especially with him not being the head of a publishing company, he may be forced to translate something he doesn't want to, and that would probably make him angry (He only translates stuff he loves).

Everything that has been said does NOT guarntee he'll be working for MS. He mentioned MS because they'll be needing people to translate Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey. He's still looking at other publishers. And if he wants to help publish an RPG for X360, it may not be lasting long, especially with how bad X360 is bombing Japan right now (It won't get too much better even with DoA4). Although, having RPG games on X360 might make me like it, since I kind of hated Xbox because it had NONE.

I do seriously think he blows Sony's anti-2-D way out of proportional. Sony allowed NIS America to release Phantom Brave, Makai Kingdom, and Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana recently. Atlus has released 2-D games stateside, along with Mastiff llc, Sega with Shining Tears. None of those games were discounted or bundled together. I just think Vic gives SCEA a rough time over stuff, making them deny the game.[/QUOTE]
SCEA's attitude towards niche games has been well documented, I made an extensive list of games that they would not approve for release here in another thread. Even if they didn't (they did), refusing to allow a game to be released, only after the licenses were made, payment arranged, investments made, and the game being 90% complete, is a pretty horrible way to treat your publishers. I will try and find the list of games they've refused to allow on the US on PS2.

Bernie Stolar really screwed them when he was running Sega (and screwed Sega pretty bad too), he went out of his way to marginalize WD. His announcement that the Saturn was not Sega's future, while WD had a game in development (Rayearth), was the final straw, they went to Sony. Which wouldn't have been a bad business decision on its own, any personal feelings aside.


Here's that partial list of games that SCEA has denied, that I made in August.
Vib Ribbon, Goemon (the previous Goemon), Dodonpachi, Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers, Broken Sword 3: The Sleeping Dragon, Curse: Eye of the Isis, Shadow Tower: Abyss, Ys 1+2, Syberia 1 and 2, Still Life, Tales of Symphonia, Policenauts, and a complete collection of all the Langrisser games.

Syberia, Syberia 2, Curse, and Broken Sword 3 all came out in Europe on PS2, but not here. Still Life was slated for PS2 but was cancelled in all regions when it was rejected for the US.

SNK's games were being rejected by SCEA, which was the only reason they went to Xbox... And MS not only welcomed them with open arms, they reportedly sent a guy over to them who wrote all of their XBL code.

And yes, WD wanted to do Langrisser, but Sony said no. And yes, Policenauts was actually going to come here (sequel to Snatcher), but Sony, in their infinite wisdom, said no.

NIS has been having their problems with SCEA and Sony, Makai Wars was in fact shitcanned by Sony. Which is why they're making overtures to MS and Nintendo, even if its only to force Sony to let them release whatever they want.


The reason why publishers don't just come out and say that, and the reason why its hard to find out the real reasons for projects being shitcanned, is because Sony does not like it when they tell people they rejected a project, and it would hurt your chances in the future of being approved for something else.
 
Ugh, what a tradgedy. Alundra was some fine work, it had one of the most beatifully translated stories ever, I think I'm going to... idk what...

If only Sony weren't money hungry bastards.
 
Agetech actually completed the translation for Shadow Tower: Abyss before sony decide not to let them release it.

Add to the list Metal Slug 3 and SNK vs Capcom. (both got PAL release) I think after that SNK didnt even bother asking to see if they will approve Samuari Showdown and KoF94 Re-bout. Snatcher remake on PSOne might also got rejected but i cant be 100% sure.

As for Tales of Symphonia, I thought the probelm was that Nintendo paid for the translation for the cube version.

Also one way to get release is to force the publisher to bundle games, like WD with arc the lad and growlanser and SNK with KoF and metal slug games. Not a huge problem for SNK, but WD basiclly did the work for 2 games and only make the profit for one game with grownlanser.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Vib Ribbon[/quote]
A game totally worth importing; however I have not played mojib ribbon nor vib ripple.

SNK's games were being rejected by SCEA, which was the only reason they went to Xbox... And MS not only welcomed them with open arms, they reportedly sent a guy over to them who wrote all of their XBL code.
Click to expand...
They are currently releasing stuff on PS2, though. What (if you know) changed in that relationship? Also, what of Agetec releasing KoF '99? IIRC, Snk released KoF '95, and it *really* exposed how poorly the PSOne did 2-D. Sony may be a dick when it comes to turning down games, but there appears to be a reason for it (even if it is, in the end, their fault that it ran 2-D so poorly)

NIS has been having their problems with SCEA and Sony, Makai Wars was in fact shitcanned by Sony. Which is why they're making overtures to MS and Nintendo, even if its only to force Sony to let them release whatever they want.
Click to expand...
Now, these are only problems with local publishers and SCEA, right? That can be the only reason I see publishers putting out stuff in Japan on the PS2; of course, market share must also be considered. Now, truth be told, their games are 2-D sprites on a 3-D playing field. No different than Final Fantasy Tactics. What's the big deal there, then?

The reason why publishers don't just come out and say that, and the reason why its hard to find out the real reasons for projects being shitcanned, is because Sony does not like it when they tell people they rejected a project, and it would hurt your chances in the future of being approved for something else.
Click to expand...
Well, in any industry, airing dirty laundry is one way to burn bridges *everywhere*. It's unfortunate, because from what I've come to know of Sony's business practices over recent months, I'm *very* reticent to support them by purchasing the PS3. It's really strange that Microsoft is looking like a more generous and ethical corporation, but that appears to be the case.

Lastly, wouldn't "Ico" and "Shadow of the Colossus" type games be considered "niche" as well, yet Sony published those? Just a thought.
 
[quote name='62t']Agetech actually completed the translation for Shadow Tower: Abyss before sony decide not to let them release it.

Add to the list Metal Slug 3 and SNK vs Capcom. (both got PAL release) I think after that SNK didnt even bother asking to see if they will approve Samuari Showdown and KoF94 Re-bout. Snatcher remake on PSOne might also got rejected but i cant be 100% sure.

As for Tales of Symphonia, I thought the probelm was that Nintendo paid for the translation for the cube version.

Also one way to get release is to force the publisher to bundle games, like WD with arc the lad and growlanser and SNK with KoF and metal slug games. Not a huge problem for SNK, but WD basiclly did the work for 2 games and only make the profit for one game with grownlanser.[/QUOTE]
Its not quite as big a deal for SNK since the US market is not the majority of their business, if they have to bundle some things, its not quite so bad since they already made their money in Japan.

For a company like WD, their localizations here are the only source of revenue. If they have to pay to license and localize 2 games and get forced to bundle them as one, it cuts their revenue in half, it kills them. Let alone when things get rejected completely when they're already done.
 
most people dont know this but SCEA actually published The King Of Fighters '95 and Samurai Shodown 3 for PSOne is US. However those were horrible ports and sold poorly with few ads (the later KoF 96 and Sam Sho 4 are a lot better). I guess this could explain Sony's attitue on 2D games.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
Now, these are only problems with local publishers and SCEA, right? That can be the only reason I see publishers putting out stuff in Japan on the PS2; of course, market share must also be considered. Now, truth be told, their games are 2-D sprites on a 3-D playing field. No different than Final Fantasy Tactics. What's the big deal there, then?
[/QUOTE]

The problem with NIS and Makai Wars probably had more to do than just the SCEA. Its not like the game even came out in Japan and then SCEA wouldnt allow someone to bring it over here. The game wasnt allowed to be made anywhere. It is theoretically possible that it was cleared in Japan but not here so they decided not to do it at all. We're honestly probably bigger NIS fans than the Japanese. They have a lot more zany stuff to choose from.
 
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