UPDATE Buyer claims factory sealed game is missing disc

Update 1-30

Paypal is refunding the buyer, but they will not be taking the refund from my
account. Paypal will be covering the refund.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8234769692&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:US:1

Buyer sends me this email yesterday:

We opened this game this morning and there is no game inside. This was a gift for our son and it was very upsetting for him to open this and no game inside. We could see that it had been opened and resealed after looking. We want a refund. Please contact me so we can resolve this.

I replied:

This game was factory sealed and not resealed. How could you see that the game had been opened and resealed? All my copies of this game came from the same source, and no other customer has complained about a missing disc. I have never had a problem with missing discs for any games that I have sold. Please contact Midway customer support at 858.450.8190 if you still want to claim your disc is missing because if it were, then it would be because they forgot to insert it at the factory.

Buyer files Paypal dispute against me:

Reason for Dispute:
Not as described
Buyer's Comments:
Received a brand new xbox game in cellophane but no game inside. Tape on bottom had been removed and put back on and was dirty. This was a Christmas gift and was so sad when my son went to open. We were all in total shock. I have contacted seller but he is unwilling to do anything. Please help me resolve this issue.

I respond:

This game was factory sealed and not resealed. All my copies of this game came from the same source, and no other customer has complained about a missing disc. Xbox games do not have tape on the bottom.

Is there anything else I should do?

Not much you can do except wait for PP to sort it out. Hope you don't get ed.

don't XBOX games come with the seal along the right side of the game case?

In the future, before you send out a sealed game, shake the case and try to hear if there is a disc inside the case. I do that whenever I send out a sealed game. That's what I don't like about selling a sealed game though. Any buyer can claim their is no disc in the case and file a dispute like they did.

It is possible that there was no disc in there as it does happen but unlikely.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to lose the Paypal dispute because it was a not as described complaint. All they have to do is send you back the case with no disc and they can probably get their money back.

Dammit... how many sellers make this mistake? Always take a picture of the seal for a new game, if it's y-fold then there's no way it could've been resealed by you. In your picture, it shows the y-seal so I can tell your game was factory sealed.

But really what pisses me off are the games that don't have the security seal... without it, any buyer can claim the game isn't factory sealed and that there was nothing inside. Nintendo never had a seal but now, Sony doesn't either.x

Sorry man, you're screwed. Paypal always tends to side with the Buyers, especially since you have no proof there was a game inside. It sucks man, REALLY bad. All you can do is take pictures of another sealed game and send it to paypal, and maybe they will beleive you.

Just tell PayPal that you've got an abundence of feedback from satisfied customers and that nobody has had that problem before.

But chances are, you will get screwed on this.

[quote name='Vinny']

But really what pisses me off are the games that don't have the security seal... without it, any buyer can claim the game isn't factory sealed and that there was nothing inside. Nintendo never had a seal but now, Sony doesn't either.x[/QUOTE]

What's worse is that Gamecube games can come from the factory with the y-fold shrinkwrap and the heatwrap looking shrinkwrap. Even the same game can be made in 2 different factories and can have both kinds of shrinkwrap. Which then makes it impossible to tell if you got a factory sealed game or not. Same with DS games.

I never knew GC games could come with the heat sealed shrinkwrap... I've only gotten tree GC games like that and neither were factory sealed. One was resealed by GS (I could tell since the manual was bent out of hell) and the other two were resealed by an eBay seller since the cases were scuffed.

My brother got screwed too from bestbuy. Bought a new game and opened it 3 weeks later. No game. Then bestbuy refused to take it and they only take games back the same day that you bought it. You cannot leave the store, open it, no game, and come back. They won't believe you.

The buyer could possibly be right and I think you're screwed. Good luck.

Sealed XBOX game weight at least 5 oz. Do you have USPS label for this transaction. If it less then 5oz it's Exibition disc or it didn't have a disc inside. It's a long shot but you have nothing to loose. Good luck.

Scammers are getting more and more creative .

[quote name='beguile']My brother got screwed too from bestbuy. Bought a new game and opened it 3 weeks later. No game. Then bestbuy refused to take it and they only take games back the same day that you bought it. You cannot leave the store, open it, no game, and come back. They won't believe you.

The buyer could possibly be right and I think you're screwed. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Sucks...but thats not Best Buys fault. They don't make the games, nor did they make you're brother wait 3 weeks to open it.

Empty your Paypal account. At least then they can't refund the money without you adding the funds first.

Personally, I feel that getting a bad item (assuming the buyer is honest, which I actually don't) is part of doing business on eBay. I figure it is a risk I'm willing to take. You know when you buy on eBay you aren't getting manufacturer support so if the item is jacked, that's your problem as a buyer.

I wish eBay would just make that blanket policy and leave it at that.

[quote name='kev']Empty your Paypal account. At least then they can't refund the money without you adding the funds first.

[/QUOTE]

He has 19 items for sale now. It ain't gonna work. He can play with PayPal and his chances are 1:99 or he can give a refund and forget about it.

Jeez, they really layed it on thick on in their comments.

"We were all in total shock."

that is why i put insurance on all my items... I would tell them


This item was brand new sealed when it left my hands,,, someone must took your game who works in the post office... File a claim against the post office and those guys will come down hard on your buyer.... belive me i had someone who said a game was broken , filed a report with the post office and 2 weeks later the dude emailed me back telling me their son broke the game so please call off the post office inspection...

[quote name='gizmogc']Sucks...but thats not Best Buys fault. They don't make the games, nor did they make you're brother wait 3 weeks to open it.[/QUOTE]

The 3 weeks, I agree with. That would be the deal breaker. But BB didn't make the games? Please. Would you use this argument with other products they sell? "The box was empty, there was no TV inside..." "Sorry, we don't make the TV's." Or maybe if you just get something home that doesn't work - still not BB's place to replace it?

I bought a game at Wal-Mart years back - Maximo - that had no game inside. I opened it in the parking lot, saw there was no game & went right back inside. They swapped it out. If they had accused me of stealing it, we would have had a problem - because I don't take very well to people tossing accusations like that at me.

But again, I opened it within 5-10 minutes of buying it. Three weeks would be a deal-breaker, I'm sure.

You're done.

Seriously, you're done. I'm sorry. No seller will ever win against Paypal and the buyer. Never.

[quote name='gizmogc']Sucks...but thats not Best Buys fault. They don't make the games, nor did they make you're brother wait 3 weeks to open it.[/QUOTE]

Actually a lot of Best Buy stores now open their games, punch a hole in the case and insert a security label. They reseal it and sell it as a new game at that point.

Basically they are being jerks, and defacing in item for security purposes.

[quote name='Farny']You're done.

Seriously, you're done. I'm sorry. No seller will ever win against Paypal and the buyer. Never.[/QUOTE]

I won the one and only claim I have ever had filed against me.

[quote name='YoshiFan1']In the future, before you send out a sealed game, shake the case and try to hear if there is a disc inside the case. I do that whenever I send out a sealed game. That's what I don't like about selling a sealed game though. Any buyer can claim their is no disc in the case and file a dispute like they did.

It is possible that there was no disc in there as it does happen but unlikely.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to lose the Paypal dispute because it was a not as described complaint. All they have to do is send you back the case with no disc and they can probably get their money back.[/QUOTE]
Yea, I do that. I tap the back of the case where the disc is. You can hear it rattle.

[quote name='argyle']The 3 weeks, I agree with. That would be the deal breaker. But BB didn't make the games? Please. Would you use this argument with other products they sell? "The box was empty, there was no TV inside..." "Sorry, we don't make the TV's." Or maybe if you just get something home that doesn't work - still not BB's place to replace it?

I bought a game at Wal-Mart years back - Maximo - that had no game inside. I opened it in the parking lot, saw there was no game & went right back inside. They swapped it out. If they had accused me of stealing it, we would have had a problem - because I don't take very well to people tossing accusations like that at me.

But again, I opened it within 5-10 minutes of buying it. Three weeks would be a deal-breaker, I'm sure.[/QUOTE]

I agree. If he had opened the game up in the store, or shortly after, and noticed it missing, BB would have replaced it, and most likley gotten a refund from the manufactor. However, since its been 3 weeks, who to know what went on.

Rule of thumb is to always open up games/DVDs as soon as you buy them. You may tap it and here a CD, but it may only be 100 free hours to AOL...and thats even worse then getting nothing in the case.

[quote name='Farny']You're done.

Seriously, you're done. I'm sorry. No seller will ever win against Paypal and the buyer. Never.[/QUOTE]

I had a $300 dispute against me, and I won.

[quote name='YoshiFan1']In the future, before you send out a sealed game, shake the case and try to hear if there is a disc inside the case. I do that whenever I send out a sealed game. That's what I don't like about selling a sealed game though. Any buyer can claim their is no disc in the case and file a dispute like they did.

It is possible that there was no disc in there as it does happen but unlikely.

Unfortunately, I think you are going to lose the Paypal dispute because it was a not as described complaint. All they have to do is send you back the case with no disc and they can probably get their money back.[/QUOTE]

I am going to shake the cases from now on, but this still does not eliminate the possibility of the buyer claiming they received a different game or some other disc entirely. Usually, I check the seals on the games before I purchase them and check again before I ship them.

Using another picture for the seal is a good idea, and I will definitely do this for more expensive games, but it is not worth the extra time and effort for the cheaper games.

Gamecube, Game Boy Advance, Nintendo DS, and even a few newer Playstation 2 games are the worst as far as being able to determine factory seals. The Nintendo games do not have those stickers and sometimes Cube and GBA games will not have the Y-fold or horizontal seams. Every third party DS game looks like it has been resealed. For games that look resealed, the best way to confirm they are from the factory is by holding the shrink wrap to the light and looking for lines of small holes. I might be wrong, but I do not believe that a shrink wrapping machine can replicate those small holes.

I bought JAK X a few weeks ago and I was about to pass on it because it did not have the standard sticker and it looked as if it had been resealed. I checked for those holes, and sure enough, they were there. However, I expressed my doubts to the cashier. She proceeded to open her personal copy of the game to prove to me that the game was brand new. Also, all the other copies of JAK X had the same seal. So, everyone beware of these new sealing methods that are being used on PS2 games.

I have only seen a few Xbox games that looked resealed. Most are third party, but I did encounter a Project Gotham 2 in which the only way I could tell it had not been resealed was from the small holes and the Xbox live sticker on the plastic wrap.

I used to weigh each game individually, but that became too time consuming and now I just mark all single games at 1lb. I know this is not a good idea, but it is more efficient, and I figure the weight of the disc would not be reflected anyway.

I do not think I will be emptying my Paypal account over $19. Can't Paypal take the money out of somewhere else anyway?

Adding insurance to all my items is a good idea, but that will raise shipping costs and then I bet I will have to deal with a bunch of people asking for shipping without insurance.

Thanks for all the replies.

You're screwed, unless you have the original postal receipt with tracking info that states the weight.

The postal receipt never shows the weight, does it?

Postal receipt always shows the weight.

Did they recently start doing it? I just pulled out 2 post office receipts. The one dated 12/15/05 doesn't show the weight. The one dated 12/24/05 does show the weights (didn't notice it until I read this thread and looked at the receipt). They are both from the same post office and the same register (they usually only have 1 clerk).

you will prevail just pray.

not sure how much the weight argument would hold up though, since you can always pay for more weight. The only thing it could prove is that there wasn't a game in there.

[quote name='emperorx'], but it is not worth the extra time and effort for the cheaper games.
[/QUOTE]

That's exactly why some people seem to do this. They know that most people will take the loss and move on because it's so little. I always find it interesting how all the valuble games are lost in the mail but the cheap ones always arrive empty.

OP / emperorx,

Would you PM me the zipcode of this buyer?

I sold somebody a King Kong from the recent GC sale and the buyer told roughly the same story.

According to the GC manager, it has happened in his store twice in 18 months or roughly 100,000 games sold.

So, the odds are pretty much BS it happened to me.

I have bought empty cases from stores multiple times. I guess I was just unlucky.

[quote name='emperorx']Buyer files Paypal dispute against me:[/QUOTE]You're screwed. Paypal will determine that the Buyer did not get what was paid for & force you to give a refund.

.

[quote name='slidecage']i had someone who said a game was broken , filed a report with the post office and 2 weeks later the dude emailed me back telling me their son broke the game so please call off the post office inspection...[/QUOTE]


That's funny!

And serves them right. The buyer deserves to be caught in a lie.

how do you know there was a game inside? as far as you know the buyer is telling the truth? do they have a lot of bad feedback? If not, theya re likely telling the truth, i would be pretty pissed if i got a game from ebay and it was missing the disc, and file a clain with paypal.

The picture looks like it's an original cellophane seal. I don't think the game was re-sealed. On the other hand, I have purchased two XBox games that were new and factory sealed (with the folded corners) but did NOT have a disc in them. What are the odds that I would come across two? Not at the same time but still. So, the buyer may be telling the truth. It seems the XB packaging may be prone to having discs fall out at the factory (I blame the flimsy "holder button"). Even if the buyer is telling the truth, I can't believe the melodramatics ... who cares if you bought it for your kid, let him learn that life is full of disappointments.

I bought Eternal Darkness about a couple of years ago for the Gamecube. It was sealed with the nice plastic and had the Y-Fold. I opened it when I got home and the disc was actually a mini-CD-R with a printed out Eternal Darkness label on it. I took it back to the KB the next day and the manager there said this had happened to him before and exchanged the game for me. So I guess it's not all that uncommon.

Hopefully it works out for you though. I know it's the principle of the matter, but luckily you're not losing out on too much.

Yeah, I've heard of people who can get the cellophane off just enough to remove the game, replace it with a CDR, and reseal the game.

Tough luck. Personally, If I were to sell a new game on ebay and have a case as the one the topic creator has,I wouldn't refund anything. I trust myself before anyone and there are also quite a few hustlers out there.

Shaking the case to hear the disc rattle is a good idea...

...but what about multi-disc games? One of the discs could still be missing.

Updated the first post

Wow, Paypal is covering your refund? Were you covered under their Seller Protection Policy? I think that's the first time I've heard somebody actually get covered under that policy or have Paypal cover their refund. Congrats on getting this resolved without a loss

[quote name='judyjudyjudy']Wow, Paypal is covering your refund? Were you covered under their Seller Protection Policy? I think that's the first time I've heard somebody actually get covered under that policy or have Paypal cover their refund. Congrats on getting this resolved without a loss [/QUOTE]


I got covered under the seller protection policy a while ago. Sold some barebones laptops for 300, and got a chargeback about a month later. (got positive feedback from him already) Chargeback was in regards to the transaction being supposedly fraudulent. After about 2-3 weeks of waiting, my money was changed from -300 to 0 again. Not the best experience, but at least i didnt lose.

I must have been covered under the seller protection policy. I was expecting them to take the refund right out of my account after all the Paypal horror stories I have seen.

its always possible it was stolen during sorting when u send stuff through certain post offices it hapens now and then.