Bush Wiretap Requests Rejected!

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Quillion

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I know there are a billion threads about this already, but I believed that this new development warranted a new discussion.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20051226-122526-7310r

WASHINGTON, Dec. 26 (UPI) -- U.S. President George Bush decided to skip seeking warrants for international wiretaps because the court was challenging him at an unprecedented rate.

A review of Justice Department reports to Congress by Heart newspapers shows the 26-year-old Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court modified more wiretap requests from the Bush administration than the four previous presidential administrations combined.

The 11-judge court that authorizes FISA wiretaps modified only two search warrant orders out of the 13,102 applications approved over the first 22 years of the court's operation.

But since 2001, the judges have modified 179 of the 5,645 requests for surveillance by the Bush administration, the report said. A total of 173 of those court-ordered "substantive modifications" took place in 2003 and 2004. And, the judges also rejected or deferred at least six requests for warrants during those two years -- the first outright rejection of a wiretap request in the court's history.
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So he was denied or questioned on legal grounds, but proceeded to wiretap anyway. Basically, he's wiretapped people with no terrorist ties whatsoever.

But, we should be okay with it, because Bush ultimately knows what's best?
 
I can just imagine the requests "we have this brown guy we saw at the falafel hut, well he was on the phone talking in arabic so we think he's a terrorist"
 
Now those that say FISA should be applied because courts "never" reject such rquests made by the government don't have a leg to stand on as far as that criticism goes.

Theorhetical: VX bomb goes off in the Boston or Philadelphia subway. The nerve gas kills 2,800, injures 5,000 and another 850 of those 5,000 die from the results of the attack.

Later on an inquiry is made like the 9/11 Commission. Turns out the FBI and NSA had strong leads and intercepted communications from those responsible from killing another 3,000+ Americans but political pressures and sensitivities stopped authorities from taking necessary actions for fear of Congressional action, reprisal, discipline etc.

Then how would you feel about this.
 
Now, from my understanding, the unauthorized wiretaps began in 2002 (the NSA work, that is); but the article states that the rejections took place between 2003-2004. It's possible that this is all correct, b/c of the "after the fact" court orders that can be granted; perhaps I'm wrong, though?
 
Now those that say FISA should be applied because courts "never" reject such rquests made by the government don't have a leg to stand on as far as that criticism goes.

Theorhetical: VX bomb goes off in the Boston or Philadelphia subway. The nerve gas kills 2,800, injures 5,000 and another 850 of those 5,000 die from the results of the attack.

Later on an inquiry is made like the 9/11 Commission. Turns out the FBI and NSA had strong leads and intercepted communications from those responsible from killing another 3,000+ Americans but political pressures and sensitivities stopped authorities from taking necessary actions for fear of Congressional action, reprisal, discipline etc.

Then how would you feel about this.
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No one said they grant them for baseless allegations. What you're talking about would not be rejected. They only reject it when there's serious problems or no evidence at all.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Now those that say FISA should be applied because courts "never" reject such rquests made by the government don't have a leg to stand on as far as that criticism goes.

Theorhetical: VX bomb goes off in the Boston or Philadelphia subway. The nerve gas kills 2,800, injures 5,000 and another 850 of those 5,000 die from the results of the attack.

Later on an inquiry is made like the 9/11 Commission. Turns out the FBI and NSA had strong leads and intercepted communications from those responsible from killing another 3,000+ Americans but political pressures and sensitivities stopped authorities from taking necessary actions for fear of Congressional action, reprisal, discipline etc.

Then how would you feel about this.[/QUOTE]

Wait, we argue that the court never rejects anything other than spurious requests, an article comes out that states the court rejected some requests outright because they were spurious at best, Bush wiretaps anyway, and we're wrong?

Obviously, something was wrong with the requests in the first place, Bush did it anyway, and this still makes him a hero?
 
[quote name='Quillion']Wait, we argue that the court never rejects anything other than spurious requests, an article comes out that states the court rejected some requests outright because they were spurious at best, Bush wiretaps anyway, and we're wrong?

Obviously, something was wrong with the requests in the first place, Bush did it anyway, and this still makes him a hero?[/QUOTE]

Like I said, even if bush ate a baby people like him would still support him.
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Now those that say FISA should be applied because courts "never" reject such rquests made by the government don't have a leg to stand on as far as that criticism goes.

Theorhetical: VX bomb goes off in the Boston or Philadelphia subway. The nerve gas kills 2,800, injures 5,000 and another 850 of those 5,000 die from the results of the attack.

Later on an inquiry is made like the 9/11 Commission. Turns out the FBI and NSA had strong leads and intercepted communications from those responsible from killing another 3,000+ Americans but political pressures and sensitivities stopped authorities from taking necessary actions for fear of Congressional action, reprisal, discipline etc.

Then how would you feel about this.[/QUOTE]

I'd rather have the government fixing collapsing damns then attempting to wiretap everyone wearing a turban. Forgive me if I don't believe everything that the FBI and John "protecting American citizens from statue boobs" Ashcroft asserted when requesting broader wiretapping ability.

The Post has a great article on how the hysteria over terrorists caused FEMA to be decimated and then crammed into homeland security, where it fit like a square peg in a round hole. For me, the terrorist boogeyman takes a backseat to natural disasters, the AIDs epidemic, and the threat of a contagious avian bird flu.
 
I would maybe trust the article a little more if it weren't from a newsource owned by Reverend Sun Myung Moon. Would you happen to have another link showing this information from a source that isn't, you know, insane?
 
I don't think this is a big surprise. Obviously they've been more aggressive in seeking wiretaps since 9/11, no shocker to anyone, and they should be against people who they have some information to go on. Obviously this doesn't excuse what Bush did in bypassing the court, but I'm not too bothered that requests were modified. Rather, I'm relieved to see the court doing its job. Now if Bush would just accept the existing law instead of claiming more executive power to circumvent it.
 
[quote name='steveinneed']Like I said, even if bush ate a baby people like him would still support him.[/QUOTE]
That baby had ties to know terrorists. He's protecting us, eating babies there so we don't have to eat babies here. Clinton was too busy getting blowjobs to eat terrorist babies.
 
Saw this and thought it summed up PAD's thoughts well, given that he's used the first quote in his tag line before:

SHORTER CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT 1994:

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you."

HAW HAW HAW! AW HAW HAW HAW HAW! Thassa good one! Yee-haaa!

SHORTER CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT 2005:

"I'm from the government, and I'm here to spy on you and perhaps indefinitely detain you without charges."

That sounds reasonable.

http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2005_12_25_alicublog_archive.html#113578183314115316
 
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