So why is FIREFOX better than EXPLORER?

[quote name='Murcielago77']have you used tabbed browsing yet? It also uses less ram, and it is has a bunch of plug-ins you can download[/QUOTE]
It doesn't use less ram, and when you run it for long periods of time, the memory leak makes the ram usage egregious.

For me the reason I use firefox is for tabbed browsing and good pop-up and adblocking.

I've found most plug-ins to not be that useful. I use adblock (I can provide my adblock list which blocks most banners) to block images from ad servers and scripted pop up windows.

While Internet Explorer isn't as prone to crashing, or installing bugs/viruses/etc on your system as people make it out to be (if you use the IE version that was released in 2001, it may be vulnerable, but hopefully you're smart enough to update since then), the popups were finally enough to push me to firefox.

poldy will come in talking about HTML standardizations, etc. To be honest, you just won't notice it. It seems to be something that you'd complain about if you hate microsoft (calling them M$, etc), or you're anal retentive.
 
Firefox is a much newer, more updated piece of software than IE. So firefox has more robust tools working for it.
Also, because IE is older, many viruses and worms exploit IE security holes. So FF is more secure.

I currently develop web applications and from a development point of view mozilla browers (Firefox, Netscape, etc) are so much better. If you do it for a living you know what I'm talking about.

I still use an older version of mozilla myself, netscape 7.1. But yeah, hoped that cleared some things up.
 
Tabbed Browsing is rather practical. The add-ons are nifty. The search engine tihng is awesome too, so far I've added EBGames, Dictionary.com, ESPN, Urban Dictionary, and Wikipedia. Theres alot less garbage on the screen, and like the other guy said it uses less ram.
 
It doesn't use less ram! Internet Explorer is not susceptible to a lot of viruses if you use windows update! Stop the perpetuation of misinformation!
 
Better security.

Windows updates doesn't help IE secuirty much. IE has a lot of secuirty holes. Firefox has it's fair share, but far less.
 
Tabbed Browsing. NoScript and AdBlock Extensions.

Thats it.

And it actually takes up quite more ram, and that memory leak is a killer. Only thing I dont like about it. Checking your Task Manager and seeing firefox.exe 500,000 K memory usage=-\
 
[quote name='Superstar']Better security.

Windows updates doesn't help IE secuirty much. IE has a lot of secuirty holes. Firefox has it's fair share, but far less.[/QUOTE]
Can you point out what security holes it does have? That is to say, back up your claim?
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Can you point out what security holes it does have? That is to say, back up your claim?[/QUOTE]

Countless secuirty holes have been brought up, and some microsoft had to patch quickly, and others they were simply ignored. A few come to mind : There was a secuirty hole that allowed attackers to remotely access and control any computer running any version of the Windows operating system and Internet Explorer Version 5 I believe it was, there was one that automatically opened up email attachments, which is obviously dangerous due to users sending viruses through email. I remember a few years ago, Microsoft alerted people that there was a secuirty hole with CSS where hackers could inject malicious javascript code into web pages, which was used to steal personal information, among other things. That is just to name a few. Also, another thing that is not microsofts fault, is most viruses/plug-ins are made for internet explorer, considering it has most of the market.

Firefox just offers more, simply put. Tabbed browsing, great download manager, intergrated search engine, it allows you to view page info, great options, such as allowing you to block images, ect.
 
[quote name='Superstar']was[/QUOTE]
Key word.

I use IE, just because that's what came with windows and I'm a lazy person. With things like google's pop-up blocker, spellchecker, and countless other plugins you can get for IE, they seem to be pretty much the same. As for tabbed browsing, its just the same thing as opening more pages and clicking them in your task bar, only it does it in the browser itself. I guess you could say this saves space, but since you can only look at one page at a time anyway, you may as well just add the pages to your favorites and click them there.
 
Unfortunally, IE is intergrated into Windows XP. So, if you're using XP, then you're using IE in some ways. You are basically stuck with it.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']While Internet Explorer isn't as prone to crashing, or installing bugs/viruses/etc on your system as people make it out to be (if you use the IE version that was released in 2001, it may be vulnerable, but hopefully you're smart enough to update since then), the popups were finally enough to push me to firefox.

poldy will come in talking about HTML standardizations, etc. To be honest, you just won't notice it. It seems to be something that you'd complain about if you hate microsoft (calling them M$, etc), or you're anal retentive.[/QUOTE]
Twatever. People who say this are people who don't do web development and/or don't have any real clue about function of the Internet. Firefox isn't the only browser that thinks standards are important, and utilises them appropriately. Konqueror, Safari, Opera, Mozilla Seamonkey, Netscape -- all use rendering engines superior to IE's Trident. Ever heard of XML? What do you think it is? It's a web standard, written by the W3C, that writes that standards for everything else.

Most people aren't "smart enough" to update. They buy a computer and that's that. IE is as bad as it's made out to be. Go tell it to Secunia, or the hundreds of spyware companies that wouldn't exist if IE wasn't a mess.

I use Firefox because it's a F/OSS browser and has a philosophy I agree with, because I can make it do anything I can imagine, because most of what I can imagine has already been done for me in the way of extensions, because it's appreciative of web standards and their importance which keep the web open and not controlled by X group, because it is more secure and doesn't treat security exploits like "features", because it has rapid development and releases often, because it's crossplatform, because because because because because, because of the wonderful things it does.

Most of these things also apply to Opera, Konqueror, Seamonkey, and Safari as well.
 
I opened up both an IE and FF window and visited this exact page. IE used 27MB of RAM while FF used 21MB. I opened up few tabs on FF and went to IGN and CNET and it hit 31K. But starangely, it kept going up as the pages refreshed with new content (like those Flash based preview windows). And after a few minues, FF went down to 11MB while IE stayed at 27MB.

With that out of the way, FF may be safer and have tabbed browsing, but it's still not as compatible as IE is. FF's scroll bars won't even recognize my laptops scroll pad or arrows which makes it rather annoying to view pages. I love tabbed browsing (first found it with Opera) so FF is still used a lot by me.
 
Guys, this is like the thirtieth Firefox vs IE thread ive read on CAG. This might as well be made into a sticky every new member would not feel the need to post such a thread. The same arguments have been used with reckless abandon.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Can you point out what security holes it does have? That is to say, back up your claim?[/QUOTE]

ActiveX
 
I use Firefox primarily for tabbed browsing. The bazillions of extensions you can add on (especially Adblock) are nice too. As for performance, I've personally had issues with both, so that's not a factor into my usage for Firefox.
 
[quote name='sketch226']ActiveX[/QUOTE]
The last time someone said that, they pointed to a website that did nothing to my system. Care to point me to a website that is able to destroy a system running SP1 with all updates?
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']It doesn't use less ram! Internet Explorer is not susceptible to a lot of viruses if you use windows update! Stop the perpetuation of misinformation![/QUOTE]

You know what mao, since you keep ralking up how much IE is better than Firefox, I would like to see your proof. I have working on computer security and creating pages and from everything I have experienced, everything you say is wrong. not only that sites also back up the claim that Firefox is better. If you want to see that it is more secure look at this:

http://secunia.com/product/4227/
 
Do you work for Microsoft? You seem prepared to defend them to the grave...

I have found that I get ALOT less pop-ups with Firefox than I do IE, and I have SP2 and all updates. So that is why I use Firefox, and I also enjoy the tab browsing. I also have a add-on that allows me to control Windows Media Player using buttons at the top of my browser.

However, everyone is entitled to use what they feel. One is not neccessarily better than the other. I have found that there are certain sites that simply do not work with Firefox, and that can be frustrating. For those I'm forced to use IE. So each one has its set of positives and negatives
 
[quote name='guardian_owl']I'm happy with Opera[/QUOTE]

Me too. Personally, I think Opera is better than Firefox and Explorer! I mean, who invented tabbed browsing?
 
[quote name='P0ldy']Twatever. People who say this are people who don't do web development and/or don't have any real clue about function of the Internet. Firefox isn't the only browser that thinks standards are important, and utilises them appropriately. Konqueror, Safari, Opera, Mozilla Seamonkey, Netscape -- all use rendering engines superior to IE's Trident. Ever heard of XML? What do you think it is? It's a web standard, written by the W3C, that writes that standards for everything else.

Most people aren't "smart enough" to update. They buy a computer and that's that. IE is as bad as it's made out to be. Go tell it to Secunia, or the hundreds of spyware companies that wouldn't exist if IE wasn't a mess.

I use Firefox because it's a F/OSS browser and has a philosophy I agree with, because I can make it do anything I can imagine, because most of what I can imagine has already been done for me in the way of extensions, because it's appreciative of web standards and their importance which keep the web open and not controlled by X group, because it is more secure and doesn't treat security exploits like "features", because it has rapid development and releases often, because it's crossplatform, because because because because because, because of the wonderful things it does.

Most of these things also apply to Opera, Konqueror, Seamonkey, and Safari as well.[/QUOTE]

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause: Bravo and then someone. What a wonderfully thought out post. I'm starting to get extremely tired of capatilist_mao and who his nonstop ignorant pushing of IE.

[quote name='Vinny']I opened up both an IE and FF window and visited this exact page. IE used 27MB of RAM while FF used 21MB. I opened up few tabs on FF and went to IGN and CNET and it hit 31K. But starangely, it kept going up as the pages refreshed with new content (like those Flash based preview windows). And after a few minues, FF went down to 11MB while IE stayed at 27MB.

With that out of the way, FF may be safer and have tabbed browsing, but it's still not as compatible as IE is. FF's scroll bars won't even recognize my laptops scroll pad or arrows which makes it rather annoying to view pages. I love tabbed browsing (first found it with Opera) so FF is still used a lot by me.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with your take on Ram consumption. I have done multiple comparisons between Firefox and IE, and every time no matter what FF beat's IE.

I have no clue about your Scroll pad or arrows. That is indeed very strange. Maybe you have to go into your computers mouse settings and enable it, since on my laptop, both the scroll pad and arrows work fine through FF.

[quote name='sketch226']ActiveX[/QUOTE]

Thank you
 
[quote name='brainstorm']Do you work for Microsoft? You seem prepared to defend them to the grave...[/quote]

Thank you. You said exactly what I have been think since every FF/IE thread.

[quote name='"brainstorm"']I have found that I get ALOT less pop-ups with Firefox than I do IE, and I have SP2 and all updates. So that is why I use Firefox, and I also enjoy the tab browsing. I also have a add-on that allows me to control Windows Media Player using buttons at the top of my browser.

However, everyone is entitled to use what they feel. One is not neccessarily better than the other. I have found that there are certain sites that simply do not work with Firefox, and that can be frustrating. For those I'm forced to use IE. So each one has its set of positives and negatives[/QUOTE]

I have found very few sites that do not work with Firefox any more and every month it seems to be less so. For those I use the IE Tab/view extensions in FF or just try not to use those sites.
 
[quote name='hiccupleftovers']You know what mao, since you keep ralking up how much IE is better than Firefox, I would like to see your proof. I have working on computer security and creating pages and from everything I have experienced, everything you say is wrong. not only that sites also back up the claim that Firefox is better. If you want to see that it is more secure look at this:

http://secunia.com/product/4227/[/QUOTE]

[quote name='hiccupleftovers']:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause: Bravo and then someone. What a wonderfully thought out post. I'm starting to get extremely tired of capatilist_mao and who his nonstop ignorant pushing of IE.[/QUOTE]
Where did I say IE is better? Seriously, did you even read my first post? Because, you're the one sounding ignorant with your posts.

I'm tired of people hating IE for the wrong reasons.

If you want to hate IE because it's difficult to destroy pop ups, and spyware can get on your system, that's all fine and good. That's why I switched to firefox. But, to hate IE because you think it takes more ram, or because it apparently has a bunch of security holes is just plain wrong, since an updated IE will not be susceptible to many problems, nor does IE use nearly as much ram as firefox.

If you truly think that firefox is better, prove it using correct information. To do otherwise is dishonest.

As for your comparisons on ram, I've yet to find FF taking up less ram than IE. on google news, IE takes 15 megs and FF takes 22-24 megs. If you use FF for longer periods of time, the ram just keeps getting gobbled up until you close it.
 
[quote name='hiccupleftovers']I have found very few sites that do not work with Firefox any more and every month it seems to be less so. For those I use the IE Tab/view extensions in FF or just try not to use those sites.[/QUOTE]

Well the main one I have to use IE for is MLStratus, its a New York State Real Estate server of listings(I work in real estate). It's not compatable with Firefox, which is annoying as all hell
 
[quote name='brainstorm']Well the main one I have to use IE for is MLStratus, its a New York State Real Estate server of listings(I work in real estate). It's not compatable with Firefox, which is annoying as all hell[/QUOTE]

Yeesh. That sucks. I know my friend's uncle works in real estate. I know he does a lot through the internet and internet sales, but I never had the urge to ask him what site he uses. Maybe I will now. capatilist_mao, I really don't feel like getting into the whole war over FF or IE since I'm tired and really don't care at this point what you have to say about IE, because I don't know what you have with IE, but everything you say about IE is the direct opposite of what I have found out to know about it. On a final note, let's just agree to disagree.
 
[quote name='hiccupleftovers']Yeesh. That sucks. I know my friend's uncle works in real estate. I know he does a lot through the internet and internet sales, but I never had the urge to ask him what site he uses. Maybe I will now. capatilist_mao, I really don't feel like getting into the whole war over FF or IE since I'm tired and really don't care at this point what you have to say about IE, because I don't know what you have with IE, but everything you say about IE is the direct opposite of what I have found out to know about it. On a final note, let's just agree to disagree.[/QUOTE]
Really? I DARE you to find a website that will infiltrate my system if I use Internet Explorer. Prove to me the security holes.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Where did I say IE is better? Seriously, did you even read my first post? Because, you're the one sounding ignorant with your posts.

I'm tired of people hating IE for the wrong reasons.

If you want to hate IE because it's difficult to destroy pop ups, and spyware can get on your system, that's all fine and good. That's why I switched to firefox. But, to hate IE because you think it takes more ram, or because it apparently has a bunch of security holes is just plain wrong, since an updated IE will not be susceptible to many problems, nor does IE use nearly as much ram as firefox.

If you truly think that firefox is better, prove it using correct information. To do otherwise is dishonest.

As for your comparisons on ram, I've yet to find FF taking up less ram than IE. on google news, IE takes 15 megs and FF takes 22-24 megs. If you use FF for longer periods of time, the ram just keeps getting gobbled up until you close it.[/QUOTE]


"Thanks for Playing"
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']Like I said, anal retentive.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='capitalist_mao']I'm tired of people hating IE for the wrong reasons.

If you want to hate IE because it's difficult to destroy pop ups, and spyware can get on your system, that's all fine and good. That's why I switched to firefox. But, to hate IE because you think it takes more ram, or because it apparently has a bunch of security holes is just plain wrong, since an updated IE will not be susceptible to many problems, nor does IE use nearly as much ram as firefox.

If you truly think that firefox is better, prove it using correct information. To do otherwise is dishonest.[/QUOTE]
Do us all a favour and blow it out your ass. I've clearly posted the difference in security holes.** All other reasons I posted are VALID reasons (try and refute them, why don't you), and encompass your "right reasons." The web is beyond what may only affect you. Just because you're a twat doesn't mean that other people's reasons are the "wrong reasons."

**Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Highly critical.

Currently, 21 out of 91 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

Mozilla Firefox 1.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Less critical.

Currently, 3 out of 26 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

And stop trolling my posts once AGAIN. Or just ignore this post because it doesn't fit in with your "right reasons" again.
 
[quote name='P0ldy']Do us all a favour and blow it out your ass. I've clearly posted the difference in security holes.** All other reasons I posted are VALID reasons (try and refute them, why don't you), and encompass your "right reasons." The web is beyond what may only affect you. Just because you're a twat doesn't mean that other people's reasons are the "wrong reasons."

**Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Highly critical.

Currently, 21 out of 91 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

Mozilla Firefox 1.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Less critical.

Currently, 3 out of 26 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.

And stop trolling my posts once AGAIN. Or just ignore this post because it doesn't fit in with your "right reasons" again.[/QUOTE]

:applause: Again. :)
 
[quote name='P0ldy']And stop trolling my posts once AGAIN.[/QUOTE]
Hey, you're the one that started quoting me on this thread. I'd say, take your own advice, dumbfuck.
 
[quote name='capitalist_mao']poldy will come in talking about HTML standardizations, etc. To be honest, you just won't notice it. It seems to be something that you'd complain about if you hate microsoft (calling them M$, etc), or you're anal retentive.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it looks like you were the one that started it. Anyways, I personally use Firefox mostly for the tabbed browsing. The memory leaks are a pain in the ass, but it honestly isn't that big of a deal to just copy out the links of whatever sites you're on into notepad, close Firefox and then reopen them. The biggest advantage I'd have to give Internet Explorer is load time -- when loading them both up, Internet Explorer starts up much faster on my system than Firefox. Basically, for the end user, each browser has its strengths, and if properly set up they're both about equal in security, so it really ends up coming down to personal preference.
 
[quote name='Genocidal']Actually, it looks like you were the one that started it.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between mentioning someone by name, and trolling their posts.
 
I just started using Firefox and I think it's great:applause:! Sure it is a bit slower than IE (not sure if it's just my comp), but the setup is much better and the toolbar is pretty cool. Also, I like how it has a built in pop-up blocker.
 
Another thing to consider is future proofing. Because IE is A) more vulnaerable to attacks and B) more popular it is the browser of choice for "teh l33t hax0rz" to focus on to cause mischief and real problems. As Firefox gets more popular, B will start to apply to it more and more.

That being said, IE simply sucks. If you want a clean, streamlined web browsing expierence, use Firefox with a properly configured Adblocker extension. If you want a cluttered, ad enduces, computer-halting flash bombardment whenever you load IGN or many other sites, by all means, use IE. It hasn't had a real update since 2001 (no, patching security holes that shouldn't have been there in the first place don't count as updates) and just really needs to be scrapped.

Anyone who would defend IE simply doesn't understand the facts (or chooses to ignore them), or has never touched webdesign. When working on websites with tables, I have to BREAK the HTML code to get it to look right in IE, while Firefox can handle the proper code (amazing!) but does tolerate the broken "made for IE" garbage.

EDIT: Has anyone seen the IE version of tabs for the elusive v. 7? They can't even steal ideas properly.
http://ricapar.ath.cx:89/stuff/ie7/tabs.png
 
First, I think that IE has gotten a lot better as of late, thanks in no small part to the pressure being put on by Firefox. Thats a great reason to like the EXISTENCE of Firefox, but not a reason to USE Firefox.

That being said, the biggest strike against IE in my book contains both a philosophical and practical component and it all centers arount ActiveX.

ActiveX is bad philosophy because it is proprietary and causes websites not to function in otherwise open-standards-compliant browsers. It was/is a blatent attempt by Mircosoft to use it's market position to lock the market into using IE. As the user community, we should do everything we can to resist such tactics.

ActiveX is bad from a practical perspective because it is a huge security hole. ActiveX makes it possible for any website to try to install software on your machine that can do literally ANYTHING. Think about it. Windows Update uses IE and ActiveX to make changes to the core operating system of your PC. In order to do that, ActiveX has to have unlimited access to your PC.

To be fair, if you're all patched up, IE will warn you before any ActiveX plugin is installed, but many people just do whatever their computer "tells" them to do so it still represents a security hole just waiting for a user to fall into it. Of course, you could download an .exe or other executable through any browser and execute it but I think that your average user understands the dangers of this a little better than then understand the true capabilities of ActiveX.
 
[quote name='m6oo']Some good stuff on ActiveX and philosophy.[/QUOTE]

I think you hit the nail onthe head for why I won't use IE, no matter what comes along from Microsoft. Their domineering attitude just really bothers me. They let AciveX and spyware be just a ridiculous problem for far too long until XP SP2 came along (which was too little too late).

Their "playground bully" attitude really bothers me in any shape it takes (IE, Xbox, etc.). Thus, in my rule about rooting for the underdog, I run firefox. At this point I'm not only getting a better browser, but also feel like I'm "sticking it to the man" (which I'm not because they don't care if I use IE or not, but it's all mental ;) )
 
Firefox also has more release and fixes hole much faster than IE.

The market share argument doesn't even make sense; it implies that both programs are written completely equally by programmers with the exact same intent, motivation and skill. Also, even if it were true, why not just use Firefox now, while it does have the added "security through obscurity" going for it?

Also, P0ldy, you should've included Opera, as it certainly is more impressive.
Opera 8.x with all vendor patches installed and all vendor workarounds applied, is currently affected by one or more Secunia advisories rated Not critical


Currently, 1 out of 13 Secunia advisories, are marked as "Unpatched" in the Secunia database.
 
Why doesn't Opera get the same amount of recognition as Firefox? I would understand if you still had to pay for Opera but it's completely free now. http://opera.com. Give it a chance if you haven't already.
 
For those of us who have 8-10 windows open at a time, your version of 'tabbed' browsing is very inefficient. Anyone trying to say that IE in its current state can give a user the convenience that tabbed browsing in Firefox provides is only fooling themselves
 
Can't live without tabbed browsing and Firfox's built in pop-up blocker, or Chris Pedercisk (sp?) Web Dev extension.

As a 10 year veteran on the professional web design and development circuit, I remember when IE was brand spanking new. While IE's integration to the desktop is superior, its continuous year-after-year lackluster support for W3 specs is a real pain in my booty.

Firefox is king in my book.
 
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