Friends of AM23's Threatening to Kidnap Westerners for Depiction of Mohammed

Anger Over Drawings Spreads Among Muslims

Feb 2, 10:25 AM (ET)

By IBRAHIM BARZAK

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) - Armed militants angered by a cartoon drawing of the Prophet Muhammad published in European media surrounded EU offices in Gaza on Thursday and threatened to kidnap foreigners as outrage over the caricatures spread across the Islamic world.

Foreign journalists, diplomats and aid workers began leaving Gaza as gunmen there threatened to kidnap citizens of France, Norway, Denmark and Germany unless those governments apologize for the cartoon.

In Paris, the daily newspaper France Soir fired its managing editor after it republished the caricatures Wednesday, and Pakistani protesters chanting "Death to France!"

Gunmen in the West Bank city of Nablus entered four hotels to search for foreigners to abduct, and they warned hotel owners not to host citizens from several European countries. Gunmen said they were also searching apartments in Nablus for Europeans.

Militants in Gaza said they would shut down media offices from France, Norway, Denmark and Germany, singling out the French news agency Agence France Presse.

"Any citizens of these countries, who are present in Gaza, will put themselves in danger," a Fatah-affiliated gunman said as he stood outside the EU Commission's office in Gaza. He was flanked by two masked men holding up their rifles.

If the European governments don't apologize by Thursday evening, "any visitor of these countries will be targeted," he said.

The furor over the drawings, which first ran in a Danish paper in September, cuts to the question of which is more sacred in the Western world - freedom of expression or respect for religious beliefs. The cartoons include an image of Muhammad wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse.

Islamic tradition bars any depiction of the prophet to prevent idolatry. The drawings have divided opinion within Europe and the Middle East, where they have prompted boycotts of Danish goods, bomb threats and demonstrations against Danish facilities.

France Soir and several other European papers reprinted the drawings in a show of solidarity with the Danish daily.

Foreign journalists were pulling out of Gaza on Thursday, and foreign media organizations were canceling plans to send more people in.

Norway suspended operations at its office in the West Bank town of Ram, just outside of Jerusalem, after receiving threats connected to a Norwegian newspaper's publication of the cartoons.

"There were threats from two Palestinian groups, the Popular Resistance Committees and the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, against Danish, French and Norwegian diplomats," Norwegian Foreign Ministry spokesman Rune Bjaastad said.

The ministry was also considering whether to evacuate the office's 24 staff members and their families, he said.

Jan Pirouz Poulsen, the Danish representative office's deputy head, said there were six Danes in Gaza and about 20 in the West Bank, and that all had been urged to leave "until the situation improves."

Raif Holmboe, the head of Denmark's representative office in the West Bank town of Ramallah, said the office would be closed Friday, following the threats, and no decision has been made whether to reopen Monday. Holmboe said shots had been fired at the Ramallah office earlier this week while the building was empty. No one was hurt.

Palestinian security officials said they would try to protect the foreigners in Gaza. However, police have largely been unable to do so in the past, with 19 foreigners kidnapped - and released unharmed - in recent months, mostly by Fatah gunmen.

Emma Udwin, a European Union spokeswoman in Brussels, said security measures have been taken in light of the threats against foreigners. She did not specify.

Outgoing Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia on Thursday condemned the caricatures, saying they "provoke all Muslims everywhere in the world."

"We hope that the concerned governments are attentive to the sensitivity of this issue," Qureia said.

He asked gunmen not to attack foreigners. "But we warn that emotions may flare in this very sensitive issues."

Sami Abu Zuhri, a spokesman for the Islamic militant Hamas, which defeated Fatah in last week's Palestinian parliamentary election, also demanded an apology from European countries. However, he said foreigners in Gaza must not be harmed in the protests.

Thursday's events began when a dozen gunmen with ties to Fatah approached the office of the EU Commission in Gaza. Three jumped on the outer wall and the rest took up position at the entrance.

The group demanded apologies from the governments of Norway, Denmark, France and Germany and called on Palestinians to boycott the products of these countries.

A leaflet signed by a Fatah militia and the militant Islamic Jihad group said the EU office and churches in Gaza could come under attack and urged all French citizens to leave Gaza. Islamic Jihad leaders in Gaza distanced themselves from the gunmen.

The gunmen left after about 45 minutes. The Palestinian employees of the EU Commission had not come to work Thursday. Foreigners working at the office are based outside Gaza, and only visit from time to time.

Gunmen had briefly taken over the same office Monday in protest.

In Pakistan, more than 300 Islamic students protested, chanting "Death to Denmark" and "Death to France."

Iran's Foreign Ministry has summoned Austrian Ambassador Stigel Bauer, as representing the European Union, to protest the publication, the Islamic Republic News Agency reported.

Bauer expressed "sorrow" over the incident and promised to convey Iran's protest to his government and other EU countries, the agency reported. Austria currently holds the rotating presidency of the 25-nation European Union.

A Jordanian newspaper took the bold step of publishing three of the caricatures Thursday, saying it was reprinting them to show readers "the extent of the Danish offense."

Next to the drawings, the Arabic weekly Shihan said in a headline: "This is how the Danish newspaper portrayed Prophet Muhammad, may God's blessing and peace be upon him."

Shihan's editor-in-chief, Jihad al-Momani, told The Associated Press that he decided to run the cartoons to "display to the public the extent of the Danish offense and condemn it in the strongest terms."

"But their publication is not meant in any way to promote such blasphemy," al-Momani added.

Morocco and Tunisia barred sales of France Soir's Wednesday issue. French publications are normally widely available in the largely Muslim countries, formerly French colonies.

Iraqi Islamic leaders urged worshippers to stage demonstrations from Baghdad to the southern city of Basra following main weekly prayer services Friday to condemn the caricatures.

The director of media rights group Reporters Without Borders, Robert Menard, called for calm. "We need to figure out how to reconcile freedom of expression and respect of faith," he said.
AP News Story

I figure we should have our resident anti-semite here any time now to defend his good friends.

Just so you know what the controversy is about here are a few of the cartoons that enraged the normally docile, agreeable and enlightened Palestinians into a murderous rage.

What are you? PAD?

Heh! Apt cartoons.

Question: Should the Danish newspaper have printed those cartoons and the French newspaper re-printed them?
My opinion: No. The cost/risk of doing so outweighed the benefits.

Question: Did those newspapers have the right to do so?
My opinion: Sure. What law did they break? You can't libel a supernatural being or his prophet (which self-appointed yahoo would represent it/him/her/them?)

Question: Is the moral outrage of the Muslim faithful justified?
My opinion: Hell, no. If I were part of a Fraternity which was nefariously guilty of binge drinking and habitually churned out at least 1 case of alcohol poisoning every academic year, then although 98% of the Frat members were sober, upstanding young men...I would UNDERSTAND if everyone associated drunkards with the group.

Even though the vast majority of Muslims may well abhor violence and condemn it, attempting to deny the reputation of violence which their bloodthirsty bretheren have smeared upon them all is unrealistic. EVERYONE "gets" those cartoons. Nobody has to have them explained to them.

If those cartoons had been randomly derogatory (say, their Prophet dressed as a clown or some such,) then they would have had cause for complaint. If I were a Muslim, seeing those cartoons would make me doubly angry at my -ed up comrades with their faces swathed in black cloth and their arms caches in the basement....for having associated guns, bombs, and blood in the minds of people all over the world with the Followers of the Prophet Muhammed.

[quote name='Three Dollar Hooker']

I figure we should have our resident anti-semite here any time now to defend his good friends.

Just so you know what the controversy is about here are a few of the cartoons that enraged the normally docile, agreeable and enlightened Palestinians into a murderous rage.[/QUOTE]


That's awesome, someone thinks the state is Israel isn't all smiles and sunshine and they're labeled an anti-semite. You keep that up, it'll get you places, Three Dollar Hooker (now there's a screen name that commands respect!).

You are just as much of a loon as those up in arms over these cartoons.

Personally, I think the Danes should offer the Muslims a deal, they'll stop publishing cartoons about Mohammed when the whole of the Muslim world stops depicting Jews as baby eating demons in their newspapers, textbooks, TV, radio, movies, etc., etc., etc. That sounds fair.

If only the Muslim community showed this much outrage each time one of Mohammed's followers strapped on a bomb. It amazes me how people become outraged when someone attacks a figment of their imagination, yet targeting and butchering innocent civilians is tolerated or even condoned.

*edit:

I thought this was all related to a series of Garfield Comic Strips:



http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?id=1506

lol..

"We aren't Terrorists! We'll show it with violence and terrorist acts!!!!!!!!!!!!"

see not all hypocrites come from America

TDH's stunningly naive absolutism, namecalling, illogical jumping to conclusions, and trolling got him on my ignore list the first damn day they joined CAG. I can only urge the same of the rest of you.

This will be the last I mention of this; I'm not evanft.

Man, I LOVE the ignore feature. It makes browsing the board so much more enjoyable!

And I'm ALWAYS gonna mention the ignore feature. If more people put people like TDH on it, they would all leave and the board would be better off.

I'm gonna start my own anti-semite pride parade.

Those drawings shouldn't have been done, plain and simple.

Were they supposed to be happy about the drawings?

Why shouldn't the drawing have been done? The virgins one is a decent gag, a few are respectful, a third of them mock the paper's editor for what they saw as a PR stunt and even the harsher of them point to fairly obvious issues within the Muslim culture (people using violence in an attempt to force an extreme religious doctrine and the lack of women's rights.) It's not the fault of either the paper or the cartoonists that some readers are, shall we say, over sensitive. Plenty of cultures on this rock do things that other cultures may find offensive, but you don't see Hindus rioting and threatening violence because I ate a cheeseburger. Welcome to the 21st century, time to grow up.

[quote name='Cheese']Why shouldn't the drawing have been done? The virgins one is a decent gag, a few are respectful, a third of them mock the paper's editor for what they saw as a PR stunt and even the harsher of them point to fairly obvious issues within the Muslim culture (people using violence in an attempt to force an extreme religious doctrine and the lack of women's rights.) It's not the fault of either the paper or the cartoonists that some readers are, shall we say, over sensitive. Plenty of cultures on this rock do things that other cultures may find offensive, but you don't see Hindus rioting and threatening violence because I ate a cheeseburger. Welcome to the 21st century, time to grow up.[/QUOTE]

Well, what would you think if someone drew a cartoon of martin luther king in farm clothing sitting barefoot on the grass eating watermelon? I don't think many would find that funny.

This is viewed as a direct attack on islam, and I believe some (not all) of those images were made with hateful intent, the bomb one being the worst. I don't think any hindu would view a christian eating beef as an attack on them, and hindu's don't exactly view themselves as persecuted by christians in the way many muslims do. These are cartoons directly involving (and in my opinion attacking) another religion.

Now there's a significant difference between finding them offensive and threatening or committing violence. I'm not arguing that. It's just that I think some of these are genuinely offensive.

[quote name='Cheese']Why shouldn't the drawing have been done? The virgins one is a decent gag, a few are respectful, a third of them mock the paper's editor for what they saw as a PR stunt and even the harsher of them point to fairly obvious issues within the Muslim culture (people using violence in an attempt to force an extreme religious doctrine and the lack of women's rights.) It's not the fault of either the paper or the cartoonists that some readers are, shall we say, over sensitive. Plenty of cultures on this rock do things that other cultures may find offensive, but you don't see Hindus rioting and threatening violence because I ate a cheeseburger. Welcome to the 21st century, time to grow up.[/QUOTE]

They shouldn't have been done, because no matter how they were done the drawings would have been found offensive regardless (and those drawings are meant to be offensive).

Why would they have been found offensive in every way? Because it is against the Muslim religion to have Mohammad being drawn at all! (Not just him, but any prophet as well).

[quote name='whoknows']They shouldn't have been done, because no matter how they were done the drawings would have been found offensive regardless (and those drawings are meant to be offensive).

Why would they have been found offensive in every way? Because it is against the Muslim religion to have Mohammad being drawn at all! (Not just him, but any prophet as well).[/QUOTE]

At least you have proven, or admitted, to us that Islam does not allow for freedom and free will from believers, but especialoly from non-believers. The nice thing I enjoy about our freedom here in america is that we are free to be offended by lots of things and have the self control not to start kidnapping people and cutting off their heads. Well, usually.

I'm going to use some of my freedom right now, cheappyD willing, and say islam can lick my buttocks if it can't take a joke.

I see my topic on this subject made it to the proper part of the forum as well (here)
http://cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83698

I even made my own stick figure drawing in protest. I wish more people would take a stand, it isn't even a moral or censorship issue to me at this point. It is about our basic rights.

[quote name='bmulligan']At least you have proven, or admitted, to us that Islam does not allow for freedom and free will from believers, but especialoly from non-believers. The nice thing I enjoy about our freedom here in america is that we are free to be offended by lots of things and have the self control not to start kidnapping people and cutting off their heads. Well, usually.

I'm going to use some of my freedom right now, cheappyD willing, and say islam can lick my buttocks if it can't take a joke.[/QUOTE]

Its out of RESPECT that they aren't drawn. No one living knows what they looked like.

And no, america doesnt start cutting off peoples heads...kidnapping and putting into prisons and tortured yes though. And bombing houses while innocent people are still in it, and stealing from houses, and raping the women that are captured, etc etc.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']Well, what would you think if someone drew a cartoon of martin luther king in farm clothing sitting barefoot on the grass eating watermelon? I don't think many would find that funny.[/QUOTE]
If a cartoonist were to depict MLK Jr as a plagiarizer, or cheater, or whatnot, people would be up in arms calling for the cartoonist's head or that he be burned at the stake, etc. However, we can't ignore the fact that it's true. Cheese is correct that people are overtly sensitive.

[quote name='Cheese']but you don't see Hindus rioting and threatening violence because I ate a cheeseburger.[/QUOTE]
How little you know of Hindus. Extremist right Hindus command a lot of the same sorts of nutso things that extremist Muslims, Jews and Christians demand. They're been involved in a lot of high profile riots, killings (Mahatma Gandhi, for instance), disturbances and other things. Maybe not in the same frequency as muslims, but they certainly have their moments of being part of the asshole religion club.

[quote name='whoknows']Its out of RESPECT that they aren't drawn. No one living knows what they looked like.

And no, america doesnt start cutting off peoples heads...kidnapping and putting into prisons and tortured yes though. And bombing houses while innocent people are still in it, and stealing from houses, and raping the women that are captured, etc etc.[/QUOTE]

Not knowing what someone looks like doesn't mean you can't imagine what they might look like. From what I've read the reason for not creating an image of a prophet is it'd be considered graven and people might start worshiping the image of the prophet and not the god he serves. But that's not my belief, I shouldn't have to be held to the same standards, as muslims shouldn't have to be held to mine. It's not like Muslims have never done anything that I've thought as offensive. This comes to mind:



That's pretty damned offensive, but you don't see me taking over a UN office over it (although Three Dollar Hooker might). Sometimes people just have to let these things go, not everything is worth going apeshit over, and certainly not threatening violence over. Besides, what's the logic behind muslims threatening terrorism against those who depict muslims as terrorists? That's more then a little assbackwards.

And whatever war crimes American soldiers may be responsible for, I can almost guarantee their motivation wasn't a political cartoon.

How little you know of Hindus. Extremist right Hindus command a lot of the same sorts of nutso things that extremist Muslims, Jews and Christians demand. They're been involved in a lot of high profile riots, killings (Mahatma Gandhi, for instance), disturbances and other things. Maybe not in the same frequency as muslims, but they certainly have their moments of being part of the asshole religion club.

Click to expand...

True, perhaps I chose the wrong example, but my point was they don't recall their ambassadors because we do something they find reprehensible.

[quote name='Cheese']True, perhaps I chose the wrong example, but my point was they don't recall their ambassadors because we do something they find reprehensible.[/QUOTE]
This is true. Muslims appear to be inordinately predisposed to complaining about everything.

[quote name='Cheese']Besides, what's the logic behind muslims threatening terrorism against those who depict muslims as terrorists? That's more then a little assbackwards.[/QUOTE]

There is no logic, of course. The argument is that it is ok for them to practice their beliefs as they see fit, but the media can't practice their beliefs as they see fit if it pisses off muslims.

What kind of a standard is that?

The problem is fundamentalism regardless of the religion. There is no middle ground with fundies. It's Yahweh or the highway.

You can't compromise with someone who won't even listen.

[quote name='bmulligan']I'm going to use some of my freedom right now, cheappyD willing, and say islam can lick my buttocks if it can't take a joke.[/QUOTE]

I like the respectful bow to the nearest corporate figure, it's very much in character for you.

In other "Dude, don't defame my pious founder!" news:



I, for one, am simply offended that NBC is pandering to Britney Spears.

[quote name='1modernboy']According to NBC's initial synopsis of the episode, Jack's fictional TV network, Out TV, is taken over by a Christian broadcaster, leading Spears' character to do a cooking segment on his show called "Cruci-fixin's."[/QUOTE]

That's comedy gold, and I in' HATE Will and Grace.

FWIW, I just read a fascinating bit of research last night on Operation Rescue (the group known for spawning clinic bombers and abortion doctor murderers), and how they joined with Falwell's Moral Majority and the AFA to boycott Disney (for promoting the homosexual agenda) and Barnes and Noble (for selling child pornography). The article was about how "overstepping their bounds" helped the movement (OR) fall apart, declining in membership, movement action, and credibility. (In short, the lesson is "don't with Disney"). If I could just figure out how to get groups like this to go down the same course (to shape their demise, if you will), I'd be a happy panda.

Except not a panda.

the interesting thing if the same thing was done to Blacks/hispanics/Jews there would be an outrage as well.

conclusion: people are stupid lol

It's a cartoon, get over it

Well I agree with MBE that the problem is with Fundamentalists and I personally object to the drawing and chant that Muslims are Anti-Women's Rights. If you PAY ATTENTION, you'll notice Muslim states back in Africa in the old days were far more open to women than their European counterparts during the Middle Ages. It's only these nutjob Muslim pigs trying to oppress women. Seriously I'm surprised these guys and some of the Christian Fundamentalists don't get together and sing campfire songs honestly.
Oh and TDH you're really balanced, what with Israel's FLAG as your avatar.

[quote name='Sarang01']
Oh and TDH you're really balanced, what with Israel's FLAG as your avatar.[/QUOTE]

He didn't have that until he went off at me for being an anti-semite. It's kind of funny how much I pissed him off without even trying.

Well I agree with MBE that the problem is with Fundamentalists and I personally object to the drawing and chant that Muslims are Anti-Women's Rights. If you PAY ATTENTION, you'll notice Muslim states back in Africa in the old days were far more open to women than their European counterparts during the Middle Ages.

Click to expand...

With the quran we are looking at documents well over a thousand years old, and they have not been altered to the extent that our scriptures (which muslims also use) have been. But oddly enough the veil existed long before islam and was mentioned in christian and jewish texts. It was one point considered offensive for jewish women to walk outside bareheaded (some even covered their face), and they could be fined. In christian texts it says that women who don't cover their head in church have dishounered themselves and their heads must be shaven. Head converings are still used by a few christian groups (such as the amish), though I don't think it is considered essential by any like it once was, just a sign of modesty and tradition. In islam the hijab isn't exactly anti-women, and if you go to a place like toronto and you can see many vocal, strong muslim women wearing them by choice. In Islam modesty is required of men and women and (though there is some debate among muslims) womens hair must be covered. But an essential difference is it is not considered an immoral act for them not to as it is in the bible and the torah, it is done to protect the person and not doing so is not an affront to god.

Many of the practices associated with islam, particularly in the realm of women's rights, are cultural practices not from the quran. They may interperate parts of the quran to support them, but they are not from islamic scripture. The hijab, and the burqa, are two perfect examples. Focusing purely on scripture, islam is the most liberal of the big 3 in regards to womens rights. Even in the garden of eden blame is placed equally on adam and eve in the quran, unlike the jewish and christian texts.

[quote name='Sarang01']Oh and TDH you're really balanced, what with Israel's FLAG as your avatar.[/QUOTE]

I'm not fair and balanced. Who says I need to be? Where in the TOS that I clicked on does it say I need to see and present the views of murderous, intolerant, 7th century throwbacks?

I failed to catch that part.

I've chosen sides and make no bones about it. If you think you will be able to say objective, fair and balanced long I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you shvuntz.

[quote name='Three Dollar Hooker']I'm not fair and balanced. Who says I need to be? Where in the TOS that I clicked on does it say I need to see and present the views of murderous, intolerant, 7th century throwbacks?

I failed to catch that part.

I've chosen sides and make no bones about it. If you think you will be able to say objective, fair and balanced long I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you shvuntz.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between "choosing sides" and agreeing with what a state does, no matter how egregious it is. I will side with America most of the time, but I can't side with things I don't believe in. That's the difference between balance and jingoism.

Wow, I didn't realize it was Israel that was threatening to kill or kidnap Westerners for an editorial cartoon.

Thank you for pointing out that egregious error.

OH! You mean it wasn't Israel calling for that?

Must be those societal throwbacks again.

[quote name='Three Dollar Hooker']Wow, I didn't realize it was Israel that was threatening to kill or kidnap Westerners for an editorial cartoon.

Thank you for pointing out that egregious error.

OH! You mean it wasn't Israel calling for that?

Must be those societal throwbacks again.[/QUOTE]
No, all they do is destroy the houses of family members of men that are suspected of bombing someplace. Holding people in jail indefinitely for political crimes. The multitudes of war crimes against palestinians. It's particularly distressing to see people ignore them.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4580139.stm

The rights group's report for 2004 says Israeli forces have killed some 700 Palestinians - including 150 children - mostly in unlawful circumstances.

Click to expand...

It's just plain hypocritical to denounce muslim actions and applaude the same actions by different people. In this case, it's a blind, hate-fueled, jingoist fervor.

Tell you what, why don't you come back to me with statistics about how many Israelis have died from suicide bombers, including children, and then tell me how legal they were.

I mean, in the name of being.... fair, balanced and completely objective.

[quote name='Three Dollar Hooker']Tell you what, why don't you come back to me with statistics about how many Israelis have died from suicide bombers, including children, and then tell me how legal they were.

I mean, in the name of being.... fair, balanced and completely objective.[/QUOTE]

When israeli extremists have felt threatened they've killed prime ministers, publicly prayed for the death of people, massacred people worshipping in mosques etc.. Hell baruch goldstein, a mass murderer by all accounts, is a hero to some far right israelis. Attacks by settlers against palestinians have increased lately as well, including lynchings. There's also the incidences of Israeli settlers attacking palestinian school children on their way to school who are being guided by aid workers (the israeli army stated they will not intervene in the attacks if aid workers are present), and various other attacks on unarmed palestinian farmers who come near settlements, even though they're on their own land (not the settlements), and there's also the poisoining of palestinian livestock. The settlements of ma'on and Havat ma'on are notorious for this (though I am uncertain if the settlement still exists due to the partial withdrawal, since I don't know where it is).

There was also an attack last year where an israeli soldier opened fire on an israeli bus in a mainly arab neighborhood, killing some and wounding others.

The situation for jews is different than that faced by muslims, and therefore the response is different.

Here's an article from the anti-defamation league about the increasing threat of terrorism from extremist settlers:

In reaction to the Gaza disengagement, Jewish extremists have made threats on the life of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and high Israeli government officials, have attacked Palestinians and have planned terrorist attacks on the TempleMount. While terror attacks by Jewish extremists have been rare in Israel’s history, when they have occurred they have drawn worldwide attention and have significantly changed the political atmosphere in Israel.


[Note: The extremists discussed here are a fringe group, and should not be confused with the larger numbers of mainstream, law-abiding Israelis who disagree with and even protest against their government’s decision to withdraw from Gaza.]


The murder of four Israeli Arabs in Shfaram by Eden Natan-Zada, a recent initiate into the outlawed Kach group in Tapuach, underscores the severe threat posed by Jewish terrorists during the disengagement. The majority of Jewish terrorist threats originate within the Kahane Movement, made up of several related groups that adhere to the racist anti-Arab Jewish nationalist ideology of Rabbi Meir Kahane. On August 9, the IDF announced that over fifty IDF deserters with weapons were security threats who could stage terrorist attacks like Natan-Zada.


Jewish terrorists have long threatened violence to protest the Gaza Strip pullout. Late last year, a Kach spokesperson said there were "no more red lines” proscribing any actions necessary to “prevent the expulsion of Jews from their land.” Presently, former members of the Kach Party and outlawed Kahane Chai are collaborating with each other in protesting the Gaza pullout in any way they can. These terrorist organizations are joined by several smaller Jewish extremist groups who have splintered off from the Kahane movement such as Revava, the Jewish Front, and G’dud Haivri (The Jewish Legion). The racist anti-Arab message of these groups has led to violence perpetrated by the settler ‘hilltop youth,’ such as the attempted lynching of a Palestinian by Shimshon Citrin, who, after beating a Palestinian into unconsciousness, threw rocks at his head this July.

There are also much graver threats. Shin Bet and Israeli army intelligence have also been warning of threats against the life of PM Sharon, attacks on the TempleMount to destroy Muslim holy sites, and open violence by settlers and Kahane activists against IDF soldiers evacuating the settlements.

Fears that extremists might resort to violence against Prime Minister Sharon were heightened after Rabbi Avigdor Neventzal, an ultra-Orthodox Jerusalem rabbi, publicly suggested in June 2004 that ancient Jewish law might have permitted vigilante attacks against a Jewish leader who intended to cede control of Jewish land to non-Jews. Though Neventzal added that no rabbi would be justified in issuing such a ruling today, his comments were reminiscent of language employed by Jewish radicals shortly before the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995. Weeks after Neventzal’s comments, then-Shin Bet head Avi Dicther warned the Knesset Defense and Foreign services committee that well over 100 Jewish extremists “actively wish for the death of the prime minister.” Israel’s security minister, Tzachi Hanegbi, added that he believed Jewish extremists already were planning to kill Israeli officials.

Threats against Sharon’s life have escalated as the settlement evacuation has approached. Last fall, graffiti was found featuring slogans such as, “We assassinated Rabin, we will assassinate Sharon too.” Kach spokesperson Itamar Ben-Gvir was arrested in January 2005 for displaying a bumper sticker that read, “Sharon, Lily is waiting for you,” referring to Sharon’s deceased wife. Most recently, a group of extremist rabbis gathered to invoke a death curse against Sharon derived from ancient Jewish tradition called the pulsa denura. Rabbi Michael Ben-Horin, one of the rabbis, said that because Sharon was better protected “than Hitler or Stalin,” it was necessary to employ the curse to stop his disengagement plans.

The desire to dissuade Israel from disengaging from settlements has led Jewish extremists to make numerous threats against the TempleMount’s Muslim holy sites. In May 2005, nine Jews were arrested for planning a missile and grenade attack on the Dome of the Rock and Al Aksa Mosque. According to Israeli police, their purpose was to spark a war with the Arab world which would stop the disengagement and bring about the removal of all Arabs from Israel. Other scenarios prevented by Israeli police have included an attempt to crash an air drone packed with explosives on the TempleMount, a manned suicide attack with a light aircraft during mass Muslim worship on the Mount, and an attempt by right-wing extremists to assassinate a prominent Temple Mount Muslim leader.

Israeli government officials and police have consistently and forcefully prevented terror cells from advancing this agenda, acknowledging that such an attack could spark a war between Israel and the Muslim world.

Click to expand...

http://www.adl.org/main_Terrorism/jewish_terrorism_disengagement.htm

[quote name='John Lennon']Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one [/QUOTE]

Anyone care to join me in my worldwide "Learn Logic In School" initiative? I think if people learned proper argument structure and logical reasoning at a young age, there would be less religious fanaticism.

Here's a "draw mohammed week" site:
http://drawmohammedweek.blogspot.com/

[quote name='Three Dollar Hooker']Tell you what, why don't you come back to me with statistics about how many Israelis have died from suicide bombers, including children, and then tell me how legal they were.

I mean, in the name of being.... fair, balanced and completely objective.[/QUOTE]
The point is to learn that both sides are fallable.

[quote name='capitalist_mao']The point is to learn that both sides are fallable.[/QUOTE]

Exactly I'm SO sick of the blatant slant that the American media portrays Israel as this innocent state and the Palestinians are the nutjobs. We all know they're there but when do they show the Palestinians being victimized? NEVER.

[quote name='Sarang01']Exactly I'm SO sick of the blatant slant that the American media portrays Israel as this innocent state and the Palestinians are the nutjobs. We all know they're there but when do they show the Palestinians being victimized? NEVER.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that is entirely true. I think a lot as a whole is not covered, but I don't think it is as blatantly one sided as you make it out to be.

For instance, Arafat for the past ten years leading up to his death was given a free pass pretty much in regards to his previous open support for terrorism and calls for complete destruction of Israel. I think that the American media just didn't get in depth on the matter at all, only touching the surface. I mean the reporting goes like: Terrorist attack, incursion, terrorist attack, incursion. It is pretty basic.

But, to get back on subject this has very little to do with Israel and Palestinian conflict nor does it have anything to do with the US and Iraq. In fact, Israel and the US papers have been very quiet on this issue (I think one Israeli paper ran a small photo of the cartoons).

This is a issue in which the radicals have seperated themselves from causes some might call just and simply acted out in a violent and irrational manner. Death threats, open support of the 9/11 terrorists, burnings, kidnappings, all matter of deplorable acts have been undertaken over some cartoons published in Denmark. This is a attack on the free press and in fact I think the media has failed to make people fully aware of the goings on. One has to dig around to see the signs "protestors" were carrying in the UK, or to even find the cartoons that all the fuss is about and so on.

In either case, this matter is independant of other conflicts in the world. This is a singular event, in which some very vile people have exposed the fact that they do not have good intentions at heart but rather wish to change our very way of life.

[quote name='camoor']I like the respectful bow to the nearest corporate figure, it's very much in character for you.[/QUOTE]

Typical irrational and illogical conclusion coming from you as usual.

Unfortunately, Cheapy isn't the multi-millionaire slave labor racist you think most capitalists are. It's called respect for ownership and private property. Something you probably don't believe in because it make us unequal.

[quote name='bmulligan']Typical irrational and illogical conclusion coming from you as usual. [/QUOTE]
Are you sure he just doesn't have the same keen ability to zero in on your shortcomings that you do? It seems that you're denying it in the same way Alonzo was.

[quote name='capitalist_mao']Are you sure he just doesn't have the same keen ability to zero in on your shortcomings that you do? It seems that you're denying it in the same way Alonzo was.[/QUOTE]

I have my shortcomings, as do we all, but camoor's tendancy for egregiously absurd analogies demonstrates his inability to find them.

[quote name='KrAzY3']I don't think that is entirely true. I think a lot as a whole is not covered, but I don't think it is as blatantly one sided as you make it out to be.

For instance, Arafat for the past ten years leading up to his death was given a free pass pretty much in regards to his previous open support for terrorism and calls for complete destruction of Israel. I think that the American media just didn't get in depth on the matter at all, only touching the surface. I mean the reporting goes like: Terrorist attack, incursion, terrorist attack, incursion. It is pretty basic.

But, to get back on subject this has very little to do with Israel and Palestinian conflict nor does it have anything to do with the US and Iraq. In fact, Israel and the US papers have been very quiet on this issue (I think one Israeli paper ran a small photo of the cartoons).

This is a issue in which the radicals have seperated themselves from causes some might call just and simply acted out in a violent and irrational manner. Death threats, open support of the 9/11 terrorists, burnings, kidnappings, all matter of deplorable acts have been undertaken over some cartoons published in Denmark. This is a attack on the free press and in fact I think the media has failed to make people fully aware of the goings on. One has to dig around to see the signs "protestors" were carrying in the UK, or to even find the cartoons that all the fuss is about and so on.

In either case, this matter is independant of other conflicts in the world. This is a singular event, in which some very vile people have exposed the fact that they do not have good intentions at heart but rather wish to change our very way of life.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry it's just felt like they're wanted me to pucker up for Israel and I've said it. Also I think Benjamin Netanyahu was an asshole and not nearly the nice guy they portrayed him as.

[quote name='Sarang01']I'm sorry it's just felt like they're wanted me to pucker up for Israel and I've said it. Also I think Benjamin Netanyahu was an asshole and not nearly the nice guy they portrayed him as.[/QUOTE]

Not me, hell I said a lot of times in my own discussions (this is my first one here, well this subject) that I think Sharon has a lot of blood on his hands.

But, that isn't the issue here. In truth, Israel isn't what this is about. However, it is two-faced for the Arab media to tale so many shots at Israel on a consistant basis: http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/asam_jul_dec_saudi_arabia_2005.htm

And yet, a couple cartoons of Mr. PBUH and they're out for blood.

[quote name='KrAzY3']Not me, hell I said a lot of times in my own discussions (this is my first one here, well this subject) that I think Sharon has a lot of blood on his hands.

But, that isn't the issue here. In truth, Israel isn't what this is about. However, it is two-faced for the Arab media to tale so many shots at Israel on a consistant basis: http://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/asam_jul_dec_saudi_arabia_2005.htm

And yet, a couple cartoons of Mr. PBUH and they're out for blood.[/QUOTE]

I'm not defending anti-semitic comments, which some of those are, but many also are not. But the problem with defining anti-semitism comes from the fact that israel so closely identifies itself with judaism, and even uses the best known jewish symbol as its own symbol. Therefore it is often difficult, or impossible, to tell whether the attack is anti-semitic or anti-zionist. The ADL has a tendency to depict them as one and the same.

I admit I'm probably not the best person to decide what is anti-semitism and what isn't, mainly because I've been accused of it a lot and therefore am very reluctant to label others as anti-semites unless it is blatant. Though the ADL has the same problem, just on the opposite side. Most of those comments, and some of the cartoons, make no mention of jews, just israel.

Though I assume pbuh is muhammed (I have no idea where the hell you got pbuh). I've seen racist cartoons of muslims quite often, that wouldn't spark this outrage. I've seen depictions of muhammed in cartoons and that wouldn't spark this outrage. It's the depiction of muhammed with a bomb on his head that sparks it, then all the other stuff just makes it worse. None of those cartoons pictures do that, at most they're anti-semitic, but they don't target jews with the precision that some of these pictures targetted muslims with.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']I
Though I assume pbuh is muhammed (I have no idea where the hell you got pbuh). I've seen racist cartoons of muslims quite often, that wouldn't spark this outrage. I've seen depictions of muhammed in cartoons and that wouldn't spark this outrage. It's the depiction of muhammed with a bomb on his head that sparks it, then all the other stuff just makes it worse.[/QUOTE]

In the Islamic world, the media and individuals tend to/are pressured to follow his name with (PBUH) which means peace be unto him.

As far as how offensive this is, it is irrelevant. The reaction is what is relevant, no cartoon... none! Should be responded to with violence. I mean dude, frigging look at this picture:
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg....jpg?x=363&y=345&sig=OC9w_9k8lFvGp7u2Ss4BbQ--
If violent reactions were ok, this one would deserve a violent reaction. But it DOES NOT! And, that is the point. You don't see me here saying those jackasses should be killed or shot or don't have a right to say that. They do, that is free speech and if you don't get it, you don't get it. Sad that they use it in ample portion but they don't get it.

You can not bow down to these people, PERIOD!

[quote name='KrAzY3']In the Islamic world, the media and individuals tend to/are pressured to follow his name with (PBUH) which means peace be unto him.

As far as how offensive this is, it is irrelevant. The reaction is what is relevant, no cartoon... none! Should be responded to with violence. I mean dude, frigging look at this picture:
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20060203/i/r399679231.jpg?x=363&y=345&sig=OC9w_9k8lFvGp7u2Ss4BbQ--
If violent reactions were ok, this one would deserve a violent reaction. But it DOES NOT! And, that is the point. You don't see me here saying those jackasses should be killed or shot or don't have a right to say that. They do, that is free speech and if you don't get it, you don't get it. Sad that they use it in ample portion but they don't get it.

You can not bow down to these people, PERIOD![/QUOTE]

Most are not violent, and it's all too easy to blame the group for the actions of a few.

Though individuals are held to much lower standards than organizations such as newspapers.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']Most are not violent, and it's all too easy to blame the group for the actions of a few.[/QUOTE]

Most may not be violent, but it would be hard to refute that there isn't a higher level or incidence of violent, reactionary behavior in certain islamic dominated areas than in other major religious sects in the west. Yeah, we get an abortion doctor shooting every once in a while and the regular drug related murder in america, but there aren't mobs of people marching,burning effigies, and chanting death to . They revel their violent minority and call them martyrs, for christs sake. We put our violent offenders in jail, at least.

[quote name='alonzomourning23']Most are not violent, and it's all too easy to blame the group for the actions of a few.

Though individuals are held to much lower standards than organizations such as newspapers.[/QUOTE]

I have said many times that it is a violent minority.
As I said on the little page I made:
To any Muslims that are viewing this. You no doubt are offended, and you have a right to be. I beg you to stop being the silent majority. Stand up to the violent minority which disgrace your entire religion. Teach your brothers tolerance and to respect freedom of expression.

[quote name='bmulligan']Most may not be violent, but it would be hard to refute that there isn't a higher level or incidence of violent, reactionary behavior in certain islamic dominated areas than in other major religious sects in the west. Yeah, we get an abortion doctor shooting every once in a while and the regular drug related murder in america, but there aren't mobs of people marching,burning effigies, and chanting death to . They revel their violent minority and call them martyrs, for christs sake. We put our violent offenders in jail, at least.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the state's complacence with these protests, or in some cases incitement and condonation (or, in Palestine's case, territory, since you're such a stickler for semantics).