Was Lt. Kerry AWOL For Two Years?

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry signed a 6 year enlistment contract with the Navy (plus a 6-month extension during wartime).

On 18 Feb. 1966 John Kerry also signed an Officer Candidate contract for 6 years -- 5 years of ACTIVE duty & ACTIVE Naval Reserves, and 1 year of inactive standby reserves (See items #4 & $5).

Because John Kerry was discharged from TOTAL ACTIVE DUTY of only 3 years and 18 days on 3 Jan. 1970, he was then required to attend 48 drills per year, and not more than 17 days active duty for training. Kerry was also subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Additionally, Kerry, as a commissioned officer, was prohibited from making adverse statements against his chain of command or statements against his country, especially during time of war. It is also interesting to note that Kerry did not obtain an honorable discharge until Mar. 12, 2001 even though his service obligation should have ended July 1, 1972.

Lt. John Kerry's letter of 21 Nov. 1969 asking for an early release from active US Navy duty falsely states "My current regular period of obligated service would be completed in December of this year."

On Jan. 3, 1970 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to the Naval Reserve Manpower Center in Bainridge, Maryland.

Where are Kerry's Performance Records for 2 years of obligated Ready Reserve, the 48 drills per year required and his 17 days of active duty per year training while Kerry was in the Ready Reserves? Have these records been released?

Has anyone ever talked to Kerry's Commanding Officer at the Naval Reserve Center where Kerry drilled?

On 1 July 1972 Lt. John Kerry was transferred to Standby Reserve - Inactive.
On 16 February 1978 Lt. John Kerry was discharged from US Naval Reserve.

Below are some of the crimes Lt. Kerry USNR committed as a Ready Reservist, while he was activing as a leader of Vietnam Veterans Against the War:

1. Lt. Kerry attended many rallies where the Vietcong flag was displayed while our flag was desecrated, defiled, and mocked, thereby giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

2. Lt. Kerry was involved in a meeting that voted on assassinating members of the US Senate.

3. Lt. Kerry lied under oath against fellow soldiers before the US Senate about crimes committed in Vietnam.

4. Lt. Kerry professed to being a war criminal on national television, and condemned the military and the USA.

5. Lt. Kerry met with NVA and Vietcong communist leaders in Paris, in direct violation of the UCMJ and the U.S. Constitution.

Lt. Kerry by his own words and actions violated the UCMJ and the U.S. Code while serving as a Navy officer. Lt. Kerry stands in violation of Article 3, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution. Lt. Kerry's 1970 meeting with NVA Communists in Paris is in direct violation of the UCMJ's Article 104 part 904, and U.S. Code 18 U.S.C. 953. That meeting, and Kerry's subsequent support of the communists while leading mass protests against our military in the year that followed, also place him in direct violation of our Constitution's Article 3, Section 3, which defines treason as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy in time of warfare. The Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, states, "No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President ... having previously taken an oath ... to support the Constitution of the United States, [who has] engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

All of John Kerry's military service records link to the official campaign web site http://wwww.johnkerry.com.

Exception being the official Armed Forces.mil link which is the web publication of the Universal Code of Military Justice.

PAD JUST SUPPORTED THE DENIAL OF THE EXISTENCE OF WAR CRIMES IN VIETNAM BY S.B. VETS FOR TRUTH!

That peice of shit (PAD) is an embarrasment to our troops almost as much as the swift-vets themselves.

PAD, go back in your hole, you are making this place stink of your disgusting slime.

PittsburghAfterDark is a liar, he was a sissy and during the Gulf War he got his fellow soldiers killed because he ran and hid when they needed him to provide cover fire. His only confirmed kills were a group of eight schoolchildren between the ages of 5 and 9. They were cut down by PAD's heavy machinegun while trying ro run from a civilian hospital that was taking mortar fire from a US position.

During his court marshal PAD said: "I don't care if they were kids, sand niggas that can't shoot back make a better targets."

While running from a battle PAD tripped on a rock and broke his foot. He tried to get his fellow soldiers to put him in for a purple heart, but instead they gave him a savage beating for being a coward and getting many of their freinds killed.

Wow, that's amusing. Did you think of that all by yourself?

You left out the part where we ran over the puppy farm and used their warm quivering guts to lube the treads on our Abrams.

I still have no idea how u can compare someone who went to war as compared some fool who went Awol in from the Coast Guard. That is some might fine Republican thinking

The Republican party is like a religious cult. They will lie about anything and everything in order to make their candidate look good. PAD and Scrubking have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. The fact of the matter is that Kerry is a highly decorated soldier who volunteered for his tour of duty. Bush dodged the draft and then, to add insult to injury, never completed the required work.

It looks like Kerry never completed his obligations either Coffman. Would you like to find me one Swiftie that had a 4 month tour of duty other than Lt. John Kerry? Vietnam tours were a one year standard.

Dodging the draft does not equal going into the National Guard. Dodging the draft means taking off to Canada for years. If you're going to use the term at least know what it means.

PAD has a point, people. Please substitute "Had his daddy pull some strings so he could leap over hundreds of more qualified people trying to get into the "Champagne Squad" of the Texas National Guard then left for Alabama leaving no paper trail that he completed his service, refused to take his physical (around the time the Guard started drug testing), and met only one person who will vouch for his service" for the phrase "dodged the draft."

No need to thank me...

Thats right, and if you get badly injured or injured many times they just give you a band-aid and some prozak and say suck it up, get back out there.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']It looks like Kerry never completed his obligations either Coffman. Would you like to find me one Swiftie that had a 4 month tour of duty other than Lt. John Kerry? Vietnam tours were a one year standard.

Dodging the draft does not equal going into the National Guard. Dodging the draft means taking off to Canada for years. If you're going to use the term at least know what it means.[/quote]

I don't know the answer to your first paragraph. Why did he serve so short a time? Was it because of his injuries? As for your second paragraph, there was more than 1 way to dodge the draft. Clinton dodged the draft by going to Canada. Bush dodged the draft by having his dad get him a safe position in the National Guard. He was never in line for going to Vietnam because of his dad's connections, so he therefore did indeed dodge the draft.

Clinton never went to Canada to avoid military service. He was given a number of deferments, all perfectly legal. My beef with Clinton wasn't that he never served but his letter to his draft board in which he stated he "loathed the military".

State National Guards ARE the military. It is as much under the ultimate control of the President of the United States as the active duty armed services. If you join the Guard you aren't avoiding or dodging military service or the draft, you are in the military. Just as if you joined the Coast Guard or Merchant Marines; both armed services according to this country's military structure.

So you're saying there is no difference in Kerry volunteering for swift boat duty in Vietnam and Bush using his dad's connections to jump to the front of the line for the Texas National Guard's "Champagne Squad" despite his poor academic scores?

Kerry knew damn well he would be shot at and Bush knew damn well he wouldn't. I'm not disparaging National Guard service, but I think in this case it shows which person has the better character.

The problem I have with Bush is that he is a war hawk.

War hawks who dodge the draft are cowards.

MBE I give you the benefit of the doubt, you seem to be a little more even headed than some on here. The primary role of the ANG in the Cold War was in support of NORAD defending CONUS against Soviet bomber threats.

Historical views being 20/20 keeping the skies of Texas clear of Soviet bombers is funny. I freely admit it. However at the time of Bush's enlistment the country was six years removed from the Cuban Missile Crisis. It's impossible to relate the fear of the Soviets to Americans in the 60's, 70's and 80's to people under 30.

That being said flying an F-102 over Texas was as much a necessary military mission as combat in Vietnam. You were in the heyday of the Cold War. We kept airborne alert bombers on racetrack patterns 24/7/365 and fighter crews of the regular AF and ANG's were on red alert standby.

Did Kerry know he'd see action? Yeah. Did Bush know he wouldn't? Possibly. Would both have done their duty if asked? Yes. I know you're not saying this but the logic of current political thought is that Soviet bombers would have had to attack and been shot down over Texas for Bush to have seen as ever having served a legitimate military role.

We've had dozens of missile subs at sea for nearly 40 years. The Ohio class SSBN's have been at sea for almost two decades with nuclear ICBM's that will most likely never, thankfully, be used. Do those who served on that mission deserve less respect than those who joined the infantry and fought in Desert Storm or Iraqi Freedom?

Jimmy Carter was a long term naval officer selected in the early days of the nuclear navy, hand picked by Hyman Rickover (A singularly enormous feat of ability, Rickover only took the absolute best in the Navy.), he served on SSN-575 USS Seawolf during 1952-53. Was his service any less valuable to our nation because he was on a submarine that never saw and would never see combat while tens of thousands saw combat in those years during the Korean Conflict?

Absolutely not. To argue so would be senseless. The work done by the nuclear navy in the early 50's carries on into today's generation of reactors and warships and will for decades to come. It was an absolutely vital mission of great historical importance.

Its the same kind of thing. I've never once questioned Kerry's medals. I have questioned his statements that he was in Cambodia in 1968 on Christmas Eve listening to President Nixon claim there weren't troops in Cambodia. Absurd. Not only wasn't he there, Nixon wasn't inagurated until 1969. I also highly question his decisions to protest his fellow soldiers and admit to war crimes upon his return.

Only in the last week or so have I seen his records in the reserve, the point of this post, been brought up.

Listen, it was Senator Kerry who made his military service a centerpiece of his campaign. It wasn't the Swifties. His accpetance speech was supposed to set the tone for where and what he wanted the campaign to be about. He didn't focus on his Senate record, which was wise, he didn't focus on his time as Lietenant Governor of Massachusetts or a prosecutor. He focused on his military record. That's how he chose to frame his campaign.

When you do that people look at your claims. Now that he and many of his supporters don't like what opposition is finding out about that record they want to stifle further examination and attack the questioners. Isn't that the exact same thing we've been told to do for 3 year? Question our leader or in this case... would be leader?

[quote name='Quackzilla']PAD JUST SUPPORTED THE DENIAL OF THE EXISTENCE OF WAR CRIMES IN VIETNAM BY S.B. VETS FOR TRUTH!

That peice of shit (PAD) is an embarrasment to our troops almost as much as the swift-vets themselves.

PAD, go back in your hole, you are making this place stink of your disgusting slime.

PittsburghAfterDark is a liar, he was a sissy and during the Gulf War he got his fellow soldiers killed because he ran and hid when they needed him to provide cover fire. His only confirmed kills were a group of eight schoolchildren between the ages of 5 and 9. They were cut down by PAD's heavy machinegun while trying ro run from a civilian hospital that was taking mortar fire from a US position.

During his court marshal PAD said: "I don't care if they were kids, sand niggas that can't shoot back make a better targets."

While running from a battle PAD tripped on a rock and broke his foot. He tried to get his fellow soldiers to put him in for a purple heart, but instead they gave him a savage beating for being a coward and getting many of their freinds killed.[/quote]

That was completely unnecessary. Shame on you.

I don't sweat him JSweeny. If I ever announced or posted how many people probably died from commands to my M1A2 crew or the orders to my platoon this board would explode.

I can take enormous pride in one thing. No one ever died under my command. Hell, no tank in my platoon ever got hit by anything other than small arms fire. I never had to write a letter home to a mother, father, wife or fiancee.

If some nut job online wants to call me baby killer, let him. That's the last vestige of the uninformed, ill prepared and small minded person, the ad hominem personal attack. Every time Quackzilla posts that, which he's done twice, he only belittles himself.

You should see the PM's he sends me, they're actually quite polite, yet in the forums he chooses to play the role of a spoiled 10 year old who's mom grounded him from his best friends birthday pool party... saying things repeatedly he doesn't really mean.

That was a parody of the blatant lies and hatred that you are directing at John Kerry.

Just because it's parody doesn't make it funny or acceptable.

Considering that there is attribution to somewhat valid sources, there appears to be at least a kernel of, or the appearence of truth to what PAD posted. Rather than a direct personal attack, or as you state it "a parody of the blatant lies and hatred that you are directing at John Kerry", attacking the actual facts would have been much more convincing and effective. As it sits, it appears like you have no real answer to PAD's claims, and thus are lashing out with a personal attack... drastically weakening the strength of your argument.

While you may be passionate about the candidates and the issues, that is no reason to completely eshew any sense of decorum, especially in a public forum.

[quote name='JSweeney'][quote name='Quackzilla']PAD JUST SUPPORTED THE DENIAL OF THE EXISTENCE OF WAR CRIMES IN VIETNAM BY S.B. VETS FOR TRUTH!

That peice of shit (PAD) is an embarrasment to our troops almost as much as the swift-vets themselves.

PAD, go back in your hole, you are making this place stink of your disgusting slime.

PittsburghAfterDark is a liar, he was a sissy and during the Gulf War he got his fellow soldiers killed because he ran and hid when they needed him to provide cover fire. His only confirmed kills were a group of eight schoolchildren between the ages of 5 and 9. They were cut down by PAD's heavy machinegun while trying ro run from a civilian hospital that was taking mortar fire from a US position.

During his court marshal PAD said: "I don't care if they were kids, sand niggas that can't shoot back make a better targets."

While running from a battle PAD tripped on a rock and broke his foot. He tried to get his fellow soldiers to put him in for a purple heart, but instead they gave him a savage beating for being a coward and getting many of their freinds killed.[/quote]

That was completely unnecessary. Shame on you.[/quote]

Most of what the Quackzilla says is completely unnecessary...

the above was a parody of the Quackzillas attempt at trolling political humor.

[quote name='coffman']The Republican party is like a religious cult. They will lie about anything and everything in order to make their candidate look good. PAD and Scrubking have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. The fact of the matter is that Kerry is a highly decorated soldier who volunteered for his tour of duty. Bush dodged the draft and then, to add insult to injury, never completed the required work.[/quote]


This is the funniest damn thing I've read all day.
Coffman, you oughta cough up YOUR OWN hook that's stuck in the side of your mouth.

PAD, can you answer some questions for me?

1.) Do you really believe that John Kerry did not deserve any of his medals during the Vietnam War, and that he didn't do much to serve his country during the war?

2.) Do you feel George Bush served his country equally or even more, compared to Kerry during the Vietnam War?

3.) Do you feel that the swift vet for truth are really telling the truth, and that they are not secretly by republicans who want to smear Kerry's war records?

I just want to know your real opinions. So please answer them honestly and try to not quote other sources.

1.) Do you really believe that John Kerry did not deserve any of his medals during the Vietnam War, and that he didn't do much to serve his country during the war?

I have never questioned his awards or his combat service. Not once. Never. I have maintained repeatedly that if the navy says they were legit that's good enough for me.

2.) Do you feel George Bush served his country equally or even more, compared to Kerry during the Vietnam War?

Equally, yes. Read what I wrote on the previous page about military service in different eras and different wars.

3.) Do you feel that the swift vet for truth are really telling the truth, and that they are not secretly by republicans who want to smear Kerry's war records?

Other than the first ad, which is the one that questioned his service in Vietnam, the Swift vets ads are John Kerry's own words. SBVT #2 was Kerry's testimony before Congress the oft mentioned "Winter Soldier" hearings. So yes, that's 100% truthful.

SBVT #3 was Kerry's Gunners Mate, Steve Gardner, who served with him 2 1/2 months out of his 4 months in Vietnam. No other member of the U.S. Navy served longer in Vietnam with John Kerry than Gardner. The only point of this ad was that he said they never spent any time in Cambodia. Which Kerry repeatedly claimed in the 70's, 80's and 90's but has shockingly not claimed since he started running for President .

The Swift Vets aren't universally Republican. Though their funding is more than likely being provided by Republicans. The majority of their $2 million raised so far has come from their website in $10-50 increments. More or less they're being funded by talk radio audiences. Their initial seed money $100,000 came from a major Texas Republican donor.

Compare that to the $12 million George Soros has generated for Democratic leaning 527's and the $14 million Peter Lewis of Progressive Insurance generated for Democratic 527's. 83% or more of 527's groups monies have been spent against Republicans.

You're not going to get 250+ people from a military unit or 60+ people give first hand testimony from the same unit 35 years after the fact and have them be universal in political beliefs. They've made it clear that regardless of the wishes of the President or Republican party that they're going to run their ads. This isn't a partisan issue with this group Bush vs. Kerry or Republican vs. Democrat. This is an issue with men who served in the Swifties and a man they don't respect who happens to be running for President.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']1.) Do you really believe that John Kerry did not deserve any of his medals during the Vietnam War, and that he didn't do much to serve his country during the war?

I have never questioned his awards or his combat service. Not once. Never. I have maintained repeatedly that if the navy says they were legit that's good enough for me.[/quote]

Gotcha, liar!

http://cheapassgamer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26498

And get the out of here you racist! (referring to his racist topic about religion)

Sorry, you didn't "get" me. I didn't question his medals.

[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']Sorry, you didn't "get" me. I didn't question his medals.[/quote]

You DID question his 'combat service'.

I questioned if he was ever in Cambodia, which he wasn't.

Sorry, better luck next time.

You endorsed the swift vets for 'truth' ads.

And you posted their propaganda and hate speech all over the board.


Or have you 'flip-flopped' on the issue?

Hate speech LOL! Yeah, that's a crime, welcome to Quackzilla's world of the PC Thought Police!

I'm going to assume you're in a bad mood today because Zell Miller made your thong feel like a giant wedgie.

I didn't say it was a crime.

You denied questioning Lt. Kerry's military record and I proved that you were lieing.