Chicken George's failed foreign policy: North Korea might test nukes

dennis_t

CAGiversary!
For all those Repubs who love to gush on about C.G.'s manly foreign policy, I request an explanation for the Prez's inexplicable treatment of North Korea.

At the start of Bush's term, North Korea had opened tentative relations with South Korea and looked on the way to a Germany-style reunification. Now -- after C.G. put them in the Axis of Evil -- they're playing with nukes and out for blood, and the Prez has no idea what to do with them.

Bush's position, from the article:

Mr. Bush, while declaring he would not "tolerate" a nuclear North Korea, has insisted that his approach of involving China, Russia, Japan and South Korea in a new round of talks with the North is the only reasonable way to force the country to disarm. He has refused to set the kind of deadline for disarmament that he set for Saddam Hussein.
When asked in an interview with The New York Times two weeks ago to define what he meant by "tolerate," he said: "I don't think you give timelines to dictators and tyrants. I think it's important for us to continue to lead coalitions that are firm and strong, in sending messages to both the North Koreans and the Iranians."


http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040912/ZNYT03/409120431

Atomic Activity in North Korea Raises Concerns

By DAVID E. SANGER and WILLIAM J. BROAD
New York Times

WASHINGTON, Sept. 11 - President Bush and his top advisers have received intelligence reports in recent days describing a confusing series of actions by North Korea that some experts believe could indicate the country is preparing to conduct its first test explosion of a nuclear weapon, according to senior officials with access to the intelligence.
While the indications were viewed as serious enough to warrant a warning to the White House, American intelligence agencies appear divided about the significance of the new North Korean actions, much as they were about the evidence concerning Iraq's alleged weapons stockpiles.
Some analysts in agencies that were the most cautious about the Iraq findings have cautioned that they do not believe the activity detected in North Korea in the past three weeks is necessarily the harbinger of a test. A senior scientist who assesses nuclear intelligence says the new evidence "is not conclusive," but is potentially worrisome.
If successful, a test would end a debate that stretches back more than a decade over whether North Korea has a rudimentary arsenal, as it has boasted in recent years. Some analysts also fear that a test could change the balance of power in Asia, perhaps leading to a new nuclear arms race there.
In interviews on Friday and Saturday, senior officials were reluctant to provide many details of the new activities they have detected, but some of the information appears to have come from satellite intelligence.
One official with access to the intelligence called it "a series of indicators of increased activity that we believe would be associated with a test," saying that the "likelihood" of a North Korean test had risen significantly in just the past four weeks. It was that changed assessment that led to the decision to give an update to President Bush, the officials said.
The activities included the movement of materials around several suspected test sites, including one near a location where intelligence agencies reported last year that conventional explosives were being tested that could compress a plutonium core and set off a nuclear blast. But officials have not seen the classic indicators of preparations at a test site, in which cables are laid to measure an explosion in a deep test pit.
"I'm not sure you would see that in a country that has tunnels everywhere," said one senior official who has reviewed the data. Officials said if North Korea proceeded with a test, it would probably be with a plutonium bomb, perhaps one fabricated from the 8,000 spent nuclear fuel rods that the North has boasted in the past few months have been reprocessed into bomb fuel.
 
o yes... i'm sure North Korea had noo intentions of making nukes until they heard Bush call them part of the Axis of Evil. Riiight.
 
And the point of creating this thread is?

He doesn't have an easy job, and your vile-laced post which does nothing to say how his policy is wrong, is nothing but thoughtless malice created to get you off on your personal vendetta against someone who is clearly your better.
 
[quote name='imori']And the point of creating this thread is?

He doesn't have an easy job, and your vile-laced post which does nothing to say how his policy is wrong, is nothing but thoughtless malice created to get you off on your personal vendetta against someone who is clearly your better.[/quote]

I suggest you read my post carefully, for it indeed does say how his policy is wrong.

To wit: At a time when North Korea seemed open to diplomacy and leaving its rogue nation status behind, Chicken George went out of his way to alienate the country, setting it on its current course. He played cowboy, as is his wont, and now we all pay.
 
[quote name='imori']And the point of creating this thread is?

He doesn't have an easy job, and your vile-laced post which does nothing to say how his policy is wrong, is nothing but thoughtless malice created to get you off on your personal vendetta against someone who is clearly your better.[/quote]

MAJOR PWNAGE11!!!1
 
So what do you want to do? Invade North Korea? That's smart, we almost lost the first war, so let's try it again. They have been making nukes sense Clinton had that bill signed. They are evil, and calling them so doesn't make them more evil.

There are 140,000 troops in Iraq and people say that's too much, but North Korea has 1 million and knows their land better, so who do you think will win?

Get off your high horse, Bush has fucked up a lot of things, but I really would like to know what you would do with North Korea?
 
[quote name='PittsburghAfterDark']He'd sing Kumbaya, offer to play hacky sack with Kim Jong Il and afterwards they'd order Domino's and watch a James Bond flick.[/quote]

You know, there are speeds between 0 and 60, PAD, and there are options between ignoring a threat and deliberately pissing it off.

You know what the score was when Bush took office. You know that North and South Korea were approaching a rough approachement. That ended when Bush shot his mouth off about North Korea without even consulting the South Koreans, supposedly our allies.....
 
[quote name='dennis_t']For all those Repubs who love to gush on about C.G.'s manly foreign policy, I request an explanation for the Prez's inexplicable treatment of North Korea.

At the start of Bush's term, North Korea had opened tentative relations with South Korea and looked on the way to a Germany-style reunification. Now -- after C.G. put them in the Axis of Evil -- they're playing with nukes and out for blood, and the Prez has no idea what to do with them.[/quote]

Where do you find the time to make this stuff up? North Korea was certainly not on the way to reunification when Bush took office. That is a flat out lie. Regardless of if you think Bush's North Korea policy has been good or bad, the problem began with Clinton's appeasement solution for the country and was full blown when Bush took office. Saying things like you do above just makes me wonder if you're just ignorant or you're really out to try to mislead people.
 
[quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='dennis_t']For all those Repubs who love to gush on about C.G.'s manly foreign policy, I request an explanation for the Prez's inexplicable treatment of North Korea.

At the start of Bush's term, North Korea had opened tentative relations with South Korea and looked on the way to a Germany-style reunification. Now -- after C.G. put them in the Axis of Evil -- they're playing with nukes and out for blood, and the Prez has no idea what to do with them.[/quote]

Where do you find the time to make this stuff up? North Korea was certainly not on the way to reunification when Bush took office. That is a flat out lie. Regardless of if you think Bush's North Korea policy has been good or bad, the problem began with Clinton's appeasement solution for the country and was full blown when Bush took office. Saying things like you do above just makes me wonder if you're just ignorant or you're really out to try to mislead people.[/quote]


Thank you. I hate Bush, everyone here knows that, I also don't like Kerry, but that's anyother story. But what Bush has done with North Korea is 100 times better than Clintons "If I don't see it, it's not illegal" way. Bush has just come out and called them for what they were, nothing change. It's not like Bush went "Noth Korea is evil" and then North Korea made nukes in 5 minutes.
 
[quote name='David85'][quote name='elprincipe'][quote name='dennis_t']For all those Repubs who love to gush on about C.G.'s manly foreign policy, I request an explanation for the Prez's inexplicable treatment of North Korea.

At the start of Bush's term, North Korea had opened tentative relations with South Korea and looked on the way to a Germany-style reunification. Now -- after C.G. put them in the Axis of Evil -- they're playing with nukes and out for blood, and the Prez has no idea what to do with them.[/quote]

Where do you find the time to make this stuff up? North Korea was certainly not on the way to reunification when Bush took office. That is a flat out lie. Regardless of if you think Bush's North Korea policy has been good or bad, the problem began with Clinton's appeasement solution for the country and was full blown when Bush took office. Saying things like you do above just makes me wonder if you're just ignorant or you're really out to try to mislead people.[/quote]


Thank you. I hate Bush, everyone here knows that, I also don't like Kerry, but that's anyother story. But what Bush has done with North Korea is 100 times better than Clintons "If I don't see it, it's not illegal" way. Bush has just come out and called them for what they were, nothing change. It's not like Bush went "Noth Korea is evil" and then North Korea made nukes in 5 minutes.[/quote]

Perfectly stated.
 
I didn't read the previous posts because I know this is a flame war.
Lets inject some facts in here.

North Korea is desperately trying to produce a nuclear weapon that they can test, because Kim Jong Il wants to embezzle the United Nations into paying him to disarm.

Even if they do manage to get their nukes (which you can count on one hand) working, they still have no delivery system.
The US defense 'shield' can shoot down airplanes, so a SCUD would be required to penetrate and detonate over a US target.
North Korea does not have working SCUD launchers to launch their cheezy wannabe nukes.
 
But North Korea does have missle systems being tested to hit Japan. They can already hit the 38,000 troops we have in South Korea.

But they don't need missles, this isn't a cold war, just hand the nukes to some terrorists and bring them on a plane.
 
[quote name='David85']But North Korea does have missle systems being tested to hit Japan. They can already hit the 38,000 troops we have in South Korea.

But they don't need missles, this isn't a cold war, just hand the nukes to some terrorists and bring them on a plane.[/quote]

Excellent points. North Korea already has tested missiles (they flew over Japan as a matter of fact) that could not only hit Japan and South Korea, our allies, but Alaska and Hawaii and with some luck even the West Coast of the U.S. They are also believed (don't doubt it) to be developing longer-range missiles. Basically their missile situation is similar to Iran's, with whom they have shared missile technology. The U.S. "Star Wars" system isn't even up and running, and even when they do put it up (before the election of course) it won't exactly be foolproof; it'll only be a first-generation system that we hope will have some effect as a deterrent.

And they could easily use a nuclear device against the U.S. by giving it to terrorists, no doubt.
 
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