I assume this is directed at me. Problem with your question is that it does not necessarily challenge my point which is prices are going up and have been for years. Other nations see increases as well even though they have "better" run healthcare. In Sweden, I think, they had to implement a few free market policies in early 2000s. Something about making private insurance more competitive and relieving stress of the public system. In France, they have made some cuts including to switching from name brand drugs to generic. And do not forget as I told you this before, France's health care system is in the red and has been for years prior to the 2008 financial crisis. They are facing billions of dollars in deficit.So then why do entirely government run systems spend less than us for equal or better outcomes?
Actually, I'm genuinely curious about this. Could you give a couple examples of government getting more involved with private insurance, causing the prices to rise? (There's about 174 pages of anger and insults I have no desire to dip my toe into)They have been going up because the government keep getting more involved in the healthcare industry. I have already stressed this a few times. So thank you for backing up my point.
I was talking about the health care industry in general. For example ACA which sets a standard and any private insurance which does not meet the requirements is invalid. Good intentions from Obama (I hope) but obviously creates a problem for many as not everyone needs to meet all these points. Marijuana is another example where it has shown to help many people with pain, depression and etc. For many that is the only way as of this moment which relieves of their problems but the government is of course still outlawing it. I can talk about VA hospitals and treatment, I am pretty sure everyone here knows how it is with them.Actually, I'm genuinely curious about this. Could you give a couple examples of government getting more involved with private insurance, causing the prices to rise? (There's about 174 pages of anger and insults I have no desire to dip my toe into)
Americans live different lifestyles and are less of a homogeneous population than most European "utopias". We are more stressed, more obese, and generally less healthy due to lifestyle, not choice of healthcare system. Socialized healthcare may still be our best option. Can you please post some links that support that socialized healthcare is better? Outcomes, budgetary, etc?So then why do entirely government run systems spend less than us for equal or better outcomes?
Ok, but the part I'm curious about is that when someone else posted a graphic of rising insurance premiums from 1999, you said that was because of government meddling. So I'd really like to know of an example of government regulation/policy/or whatever, that is responsible for the rising premium trend from 1999-2009. I doubt it's the ACA, as it did not exist up to that point.I was talking about the health care industry in general. For example ACA which sets a standard and any private insurance which does not meet the requirements is invalid. Good intentions from Obama (I hope) but obviously creates a problem for many as not everyone needs to meet all these points. Marijuana is another example where it has shown to help many people with pain, depression and etc. For many that is the only way as of this moment which relieves of their problems but the government is of course still outlawing it. I can talk about VA hospitals and treatment, I am pretty sure everyone here knows how it is with them.
Ok sure. Simple example about regulations which were passed to require insurers to cover health care services which were routine such as office visits. Low out of pocket costs went down but overall price went up. Its like imagine if law was passed to require all car insurance companies to cover oil changes. Would price go up?Ok, but the part I'm curious about is that when someone else posted a graphic of rising insurance premiums from 1999, you said that was because of government meddling. So I'd really like to know of an example of government regulation/policy/or whatever, that is responsible for the rising premium trend from 1999-2009. I doubt it's the ACA, as it did not exist up to that point.
(I'm guessing the graphic posted is actually an old one, because it has projected costs for 2010-2012, which are long past by now.)
Glad you ended up Ok. Everyone has healthcare in the US, not health insurance. What system can we implement that doesn't punish people by making them pay for others? Would single payer, gov't run healthcare require a 52% tax rate like in the Netherlands? Things that bring prices down are innovation, less demand, and competition. Innovation is possible in the field. Unfortunately, with the aging baby boomers, demand will only increase. Competition versus gov't regulation/ rationing to lower prices would be an interesting research project. I think only competition would lead to better customer service and outcomes. In the end, we are left with a segment of the population that is irresponsible, selfish, unlucky, and/or stupid that will expect taxes to pay for their healthcare.(along with other necessities...) Limiting their reproduction is quite logical. Aren't social security and medicare wayyyy over budget? Do we really think that a program as big as healthcare would be run any better?I can think of some regulation that increased healthcare costs and it just saved my life a week ago. I've been going back and forth about whether to post this but why not.
Anyway, last Monday I started feeling some pains in my lower abdomen which I figured was just some cramping from having too greasy of a meal. It continued for 2 days to the point that I couldn't even walk more than a few steps. By the time I got to the ER on Wednesday night the pain had gotten so bad that I was almost passing out in the examination room. Nevertheless the question I was dreading came, "Do you have insurance?"
I could have told them how I graduated from law school 6 months ago and still haven't been able to find work yet. I could tell them that for the entire 30+ years of my life I had either been covered by my own health insurance or my parents before that but now I was out of luck in a spot where the only part time work I could find didn't qualify for insurance and the student insurance I had been paying for had run out. Instead I just simply told them no.
You see I expected the doctors and nurses to stop working and figure out the bare minimum they had to do. They didn't, my answer didn't even faze the administrative person in he room gathering my information. He gave me a packet to apply for MN healthcare assistance, finished up, and gave me my wristband. The doctors and nurses never once mentioned insurance after that. They gave me morphine for the pain, brought me for a CT scan, determined I had appendicitis, and I was in surgery less than an hour and a half later.
Surgery went well but after discharging me a day later I was developing complications. I called in to the number they gave me and they told me to come right back in to the ER because they wanted to run more tests. I ended up spending another 5 days in a hospital room as well as getting a second CT scan because I wasn't recovering normally and they wanted to be absolutely sure I was recovering properly before they discharged me again.
They could have flagged me or treated me differently given my lack of insurance but they didn't. The best part? This was a Mayo clinic owned hospital in Rochester, MN. One of the best (and most expensive) healthcare systems in the world.
What's the point of my story? Well it's two fold. The first is that no matter how hard people work or try to make their way in life their gonna hit a pothole. I've been busting my butt to find work and do well in law school but here I am still struggling to get on my feet. The second point I want to make is that it isn't always about money. The doctors and nurses of the hospital never once brought up my insurance status. The only time i even talked about it the entire week I was in the hospital was when I brought it up with the chaplain who came to visit me one of the days I was in. I was never treated differently or lesser than other patients in the hospital.
Thanks.Glad you ended up Ok. Everyone has healthcare in the US, not health insurance. What system can we implement that doesn't punish people by making them pay for others? Would single payer, gov't run healthcare require a 52% tax rate like in the Netherlands? Things that bring prices down are innovation, less demand, and competition. Innovation is possible in the field. Unfortunately, with the aging baby boomers, demand will only increase. Competition versus gov't regulation/ rationing to lower prices would be an interesting research project. I think only competition would lead to better customer service and outcomes. In the end, we are left with a segment of the population that is irresponsible, selfish, unlucky, and/or stupid that will expect taxes to pay for their healthcare.(along with other necessities...) Limiting their reproduction is quite logical. Aren't social security and medicare wayyyy over budget? Do we really think that a program as big as healthcare would be run any better?
As far as your situation, they should be able to "write off" a large portion of your bill. The rest can probably be paid off in very small monthly increments. Please share how it is resolved. It will enlighten many of us as to how the process works.
That makes sense, but was that actually a regulation? That sounds like the bare minimum of what can even be called health insurance, and in fact those are the plans that disappeared with ACA: plans that basically only covered routine costs.Ok sure. Simple example about regulations which were passed to require insurers to cover health care services which were routine such as office visits. Low out of pocket costs went down but overall price went up. Its like imagine if law was passed to require all car insurance companies to cover oil changes. Would price go up?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capitaCan you please post some links that support that socialized healthcare is better? Outcomes, budgetary, etc?
Aside from the "Care Rationing" (which is inherent in any system) and, to some extent, the "national health information sharing system" (which I'm okay with to a degree...), every one of those sounds spectacular to me."Bottom line:
Universal health care funded through some form of a single payer-type system could save huge sums of money if and only if:
• The new system is uncharacteristically simple, not overlaid with complexities, extraneous issues and separate agendas;
• We are willing to give pink slips to tens of thousands of US workers;
• We implement an effective national health information sharing system;
• We scrap the present medical negligence tort system and create something that actually works;
• We accept some form of care rationing; and,
• We are prepared for a powerful backlash from numerous special interests.
I believe, and I could be wrong, that when he said the old system, he was referring to the insurance companies, and not the hospitals in particular. Part of the old complaints about them were that if you had a pre-existing condition of some sort, you couldn't get insurance at all.I also disagree with you that our old system "turned down basic medical for people who couldn't afford it and led to tens of thousands of deaths per year." Hospitals are required by law to treat life threatening injuries regardless of payment. Please explain in more detail what you meant.
Math and Logic dont support what you are saying.So the data showing we are number 1 in obesity and number 3 in diabetes with growing rates doesn't support my hypothesis that we are very unhealthy people versus the world?
I guess conservatives that were faking outrage at people not being able to sign up despite that they dont even want people to have to sign up can go back to just complaining that people have to sign up.It's amazing what can happen once you work the kinks out. Now let's sit back and wait for the right to puke up more anecdotal evidence that Obamacare is a complete and total failure: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/04/more-people-signed-up-for-obamacare-in-the-last-three-days-than-all-of-october/
For the record I'd much prefer single-payer or outright socialized healthcare, but this is a start.
It's better than the current GOP plan of "If you're sick, go bankrupt or die quickly."So Obamacare is not bad?
Well then I guess its a good thing I prefer a libertarian plan.It's better than the current GOP plan of "If you're sick, go bankrupt or die quickly."
How about free market reforms in which insurance is actually used for emergencies. You have a problem with that?You prefer a non existent plan that would presumably still leave sick people to die?