30 in Widescreen HDTV - $320-$388 shipped, Philips Outlet

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http://www.outlet.philips.com/b2c_r.../41907ABB9A6F008D00000000828BD472&shop=OUTLET
http://www.electronicsnation.com/en/products/show_product/category/2131

Electronics Nation will pricematch the Philips Outlet (they're an affiliate, or an authorized reseller, or something, and are reputable), and they offer extended warranties for extra cash.

Before you make a major purchase on an HDTV, do your research at:
http://www.avsforum.com/

Here are the pros and cons on the 3 major models usually found at Philips Outlet:

30PW850H: $359
0003784993574_215X215.jpg

Pros:
Fewer problems overall, more likely to get a working unit without any problems
2 component inputs
Has both the 3D comb filter and 'eye fidelity' (480i to 480p upscaling)

Cons:
No HDMI
Can not adjust aspect ratio except on 480i, non widescreen will be stretched.

Avsforum thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=366742&page=1&pp=30


30PW8420: $388
43361EBF325F00D700000000828BD472.jpg

Pros:
HDMI port
3D comb filter

Cons:
Somewhat more prone to certain issues, minor hum, geometry, and broken units
Only 1 component input
No 'eye fidelity' (480i to 480p upscaling)


30PW8402: $320-$350
118246-2212p147-4b.jpg

Pros:
HDMI port
2 component inputs
'Eye fidelity'

Cons:
Least reliable, most prone to problems, such as speaker interference with the screen, geometry, and DOA
No 3D comb filter

Other models:
30PW8520 - Picture in picture, 2 component inputs, no HDMI. Not often available
30PW9xxxD - Built in OTA tuner, but analog signals look like crap, often more expensive.


Don't take my word for it, DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU BUY! I will not be responsible if you are unhappy with your purchase, and neither will Philips Outlet. Their return policy on refurbs is 30 days, on site repair, shipping back to them at their expense if required, but no refunds, exchange for identical item only. They will only refund your money if they no longer have your model in stock.
 
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So here's a question if anyone here has done OTA HD.

I ordered the ATI HDTV Wonder on NewEgg.com Wednesday. It was a refurb, with the usual disclaimer that it wouldn't come with anything but the main product. But I've ordered with them before and usually get everything (all the accessories, etc.), so I figure I'll give it a try... what with their "new" item at about $190, and everyone like Buy.com who has it new for $135 being out of stock.

The card arrived yesterday, and I opened the box eventually despite my cold. Sure enough, ALL they sent me was the tuner card. No remote, no antenna, nothing. This leaves me with the following deliemma.

I don't have a TV antenna in the attic anymore. We got rid of it years ago when we went with cable. And I don't even have a set of "rabbit ears" handy I can try and test the card with. So if I'm gonna keep this card, I'm gonna have to go out and buy an antenna locally just to see if I can get it working. And if it doesn't, I'm gonna have to send the card back to New Egg.

Since I purchased this card, I've come to understand that I might be able to add a Comcast HDTV box to my existing account, and use Comcast to provide HDTV for my Philips set. I thought because the Philips didn't have an HDTV tuner, that wouldn't be possible. But I guess the Comcast box has component outs and can make that possible? I still haven't called and asked.

Hadn't really investigated HD until I heard about this set, so I'm WAY behind the curve. If I can just buy an antenna and get this HDTV Wonder working, I'll likely keep it. Being able to record HDTV would be a beautiful thing. ;)
 
[quote name='merkman']I don't have a TV antenna in the attic anymore. We got rid of it years ago when we went with cable. And I don't even have a set of "rabbit ears" handy I can try and test the card with. So if I'm gonna keep this card, I'm gonna have to go out and buy an antenna locally just to see if I can get it working. And if it doesn't, I'm gonna have to send the card back to New Egg.

Since I purchased this card, I've come to understand that I might be able to add a Comcast HDTV box to my existing account, and use Comcast to provide HDTV for my Philips set. I thought because the Philips didn't have an HDTV tuner, that wouldn't be possible. But I guess the Comcast box has component outs and can make that possible? I still haven't called and asked.

Hadn't really investigated HD until I heard about this set, so I'm WAY behind the curve. If I can just buy an antenna and get this HDTV Wonder working, I'll likely keep it. Being able to record HDTV would be a beautiful thing. ;)[/QUOTE]

You do need a specific antenna for OTA HD. I'm pretty sure you can get them at any major electronic retailer like Best Buy or Circuit City.

Here's one to give you an idea : http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Terk.../sem/rpsm/oid/91092/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

In terms of the Comcast thing - your Philips doesn't have a tuner, but the Comcast HDTV box WILL BE the tuner. That's why most people don't sweat buying an HDTV without an internal tuner - pretty much everyone at this point has access to a cable company that uses their cable boxes as the tuner.

The Comcast box will have component outs, yes. Probably a few different outputs, actually. But definitely component as one of them.

Basically if you get the Comcast box you just need to hook it up with the component inputs to your TV and go to your "component channel" on your TV and you'll get HDTV. Of course, you'll only get HDTV on the channels Comcast has HD for (probably 10-15 channels including HBO and Showtime and ESPN), but it'll work without problems.
 
[quote name='scdoanintendo']Same here, I'll try again within the next couple of days.[/QUOTE]
It restocks periodically, try at different times of the day. As long as its listed on the site.
 
[quote name='mmn']Here's a question to those that have this TV - and your answer will make or break if I decide to buy it or not...

When you watch regular cable TV, do you get those black bars on the left and right? Does the TV have some kind of feature to stretch the picture to fit the whole screen? If it does, is it a "zoom" feature where you get the tops and bottoms cut off of something like CNN (with the news headlines at the bottom) or ESPN (with the sports scores at bottom) ?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

It has many adjustments to zoom in/out depending on your preference. The XBOX looks awesome on this BTW.
 
I've tried several times today but no luck. I just hope I get in on this. If not I will have to go to Ultimate ELectronics....they are giving 15% off on all TV's 32" or bigger and 12% for 32 or smaller. Not a great deal but still a decent savings.
 
Well, it's worth it to keep checking it, even several times a day. I remember the day I ordered, it was in-stock, so I went to check to see if I had enough money in my account to cover it. By the time I went to order it, it was gone. About an hour later, or even less, I checked and it was back. So, keep checking, it's a very good deal!

For those who have the set, have you got any weird, faint, ghost-like lines running down the sides? I've heard these are pretty common on televisions nowadays, like dead pixels. I've got a few on the left side of my screen, but they're not very distracting. :p
 
I received this, and DVDs look great but I need to know two things that are really bothering me. Keep in mind I have my Xbox and DVD player hooked up through component cables into my receiver and that into the Progressive scan input on the TV (AV4)

1. When I start the XBox up in progressive, it flashes 480P up top, but the DVD player doesn't, and I have the DVD player set for Progressive scan enabled and widescreen....is it supposed to say 480p on top when the DVD player starts?

2. My xbox games look distorted and ugly because when it starts progressive scan games, it defaults to widescreen no matter what....how can I make it be progressive scan in 4:3 mode?
 
[quote name='salt_peanuts']I received this, and DVDs look great but I need to know two things that are really bothering me. Keep in mind I have my Xbox and DVD player hooked up through component cables into my receiver and that into the Progressive scan input on the TV (AV4)

1. When I start the XBox up in progressive, it flashes 480P up top, but the DVD player doesn't, and I have the DVD player set for Progressive scan enabled and widescreen....is it supposed to say 480p on top when the DVD player starts?

2. My xbox games look distorted and ugly because when it starts progressive scan games, it defaults to widescreen no matter what....how can I make it be progressive scan in 4:3 mode?[/QUOTE]
Ah, weird about the DVD player. To tell the truth, I have no idea why this would happen. Maybe troubleshoot it, by trying the DVD player on another TV, or in the other component input on the TV? I really don't know what else, really, as it should work perfectly.

As for the number 2, unfortunately, you can't adjust the aspect ratio of a Progressive signal. Just a feature this TV lacks, and that's one of the only downsides to the set. What I've been doing is just disabling Progressive Scan in the Xbox dash whenever I want to play a game in 4:3, because the stretching looks awful. You might notice that playing in 4:3 non-Progressive looks pretty bad, but you just need to adjust the sharpness. This can be done by following the instructions here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3411125#post3411125 Really, the only option if you'd prefer not to play the Progressive stuff in stretched 16x9, unfortunately.

Hope this helps you out, maybe someone else can chime in with some ideas for your DVD player.
 
[quote name='salt_peanuts']I received this, and DVDs look great but I need to know two things that are really bothering me. Keep in mind I have my Xbox and DVD player hooked up through component cables into my receiver and that into the Progressive scan input on the TV (AV4)

1. When I start the XBox up in progressive, it flashes 480P up top, but the DVD player doesn't, and I have the DVD player set for Progressive scan enabled and widescreen....is it supposed to say 480p on top when the DVD player starts?

2. My xbox games look distorted and ugly because when it starts progressive scan games, it defaults to widescreen no matter what....how can I make it be progressive scan in 4:3 mode?[/QUOTE]

1) Probably because the DVD player menu isn't in high def. Try putting in a DVD movie, wait for the actual movie to begin, and see if it flashes the 480p then. Maybe hit info on the remote or however it works to see what resolution its running in.

2) Sure. Just turn off the widescreen setting in the Xbox menu. You should be able to force it to stay in 4:3 without disabling the HD settings. Although since this is a Widescreen TV, I don't get why you'd want to run your games in 4:3.
 
My DVD player has no progressive scan feature. (Its old) I have it hooked up through S-Video cables and It looks really crappy sort of blurry? My XBOX is looking really sweet on 480 though, does this mean I need a new DVD player?
 
For the Xbox, I've read up and discovered it's a limitation of the tv, because I've tried it with the Xbox set to 4:3 and it still defaults to widescreen. And if I play in non-progressive through the component jack, the picture looks like shit. So I guess the games I want to play in 4:3, I'll have to get a S video cable. Sucks, because if it defaulted to superwide, it's not as distorted and stretched :( I hope it's just the sharpness through the component cable, because the picture is dark and "swims" a lot too (looks wavy). Definetely not looking good through component.
 
Got my set. It's in good condition, with a remote that worked once I switched out both the batteries that came installed in it, and another set that were dead in the bag. The owner's manual was in Spanish, so I tossed it. If someone has a PDF of the English manual, that would be nice.

Haven't figured out how to run wiring from the attic antenna down to where the TV is. There wasn't any TV in that room back when we still used the antenna in the attic, so that's probably gonna be pretty tough. May have to get an aerial and see how that goes.

Meanwhile, I tried setting up Windows Media Center Edition 2005 and have had no luck. I tried installing my Hauppauge PVR USB 2 tuner external, and the ATI HDTV Wonder in the PCI slot. But after installing all the drivers, MCE says I have no tuner driver installed. I think I may have selected the wrong items when I highlighted things in Device Manager and used drivers on them. :(

While using Windows, I can't see the ENTIRE desktop on the TV, despite using a component connection. Any resolution other than 640x480, and the desktop "scrolls". In 640x480, just a touch of the top of the screen, and a bit of the bottom is missing. It's no problem to click "Start" even though I can't see it... but the rest is kinda a mess.

Think I may need to go into the "menus" and adjust the sharpness as someone here mentioned. Nascar didn't look quite right, even after putting the set in 4:3 and messing with the sharpness in the "regular" menus. Or maybe my standard calbe just isn't quite up to snuff? Hopefully it's not a problem with the tube.

Still sick, and been working on this a good part of the day, requiring me to drag monitors out of the closet, and making a hell of a mess. More as I know more...
 
Merk, glad to see you got the TV in good condition. The manual(s) I got weren't specific to the TV, and they didn't cover much. However, they did cover what they didn't cover in 4 languages. I'm looking around for a PDF manual myself, so I'll let you know if I find one.

To tell you the truth, I'm clueless about USB Tuners, Media Center, and those kinds of things..So I can't help you much. What kind of output are you using with it? If it's component, and running in 480p, then your set might be overscanning like mine was. Or, it could just be a flaw on your PC side. like I said, I'm clueless, sorry. :oops:

Well, having to go into the service menu to adjust the sharpness is only needed if you're using a component input without Progressive Scan. For some reason, they turned the sharpness way up and don't let you adjust it manually with those inputs. Which input are you using that's making it look bad? If it's the standard composite cables (single, screw-in cable) then that's probably why it looks bad, because it's squeezing audio and video into one tiny cable. If this is the case, see if your cable company offers a higher quality solution, since this set is liable to bring out flaws you never knew existed in your current programming ;) Even still, hope you feel better, dood.
 
I'd be all over this, refurb or not, if I had any use for it. As it is, I have too many TVs in my house; I have a 20" and a 13" that I used to use that are both sitting idle these days. I'd also need to get a new media center stand for a TV larger than 27", which I don't really want to have to do. Great deal for anyone who bites.
 
[quote name='THe VGM']What he said[/QUOTE]
If you're willing to pay double just to have the satisfaction of a "new" TV, be my guest. I would rather save the money and get a functional TV that is identical in every way. Your "new" TV isn't new once you take it out of the box. These are not "used" TV's. If something is wrong with the set, you can return it, at their expense. And given Philips's track record, your odds of getting a defective TV are about the same new as they are refurbed.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']If you're willing to pay double just to have the satisfaction of a "new" TV, be my guest. I would rather save the money and get a functional TV that is identical in every way. Your "new" TV isn't new once you take it out of the box. These are not "used" TV's. If something is wrong with the set, you can return it, at their expense. And given Philips's track record, your odds of getting a defective TV are about the same new as they are refurbed.[/QUOTE]


I agree. Seriously, thanks for this link. I last bought a new TV in '96 so I'm due for a new one.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']If you're willing to pay double just to have the satisfaction of a "new" TV, be my guest. I would rather save the money and get a functional TV that is identical in every way. Your "new" TV isn't new once you take it out of the box. These are not "used" TV's. If something is wrong with the set, you can return it, at their expense. And given Philips's track record, your odds of getting a defective TV are about the same new as they are refurbed.[/QUOTE]

Or I could buy neither and be happy with the TV I have right now.
 
I wish more things were sold refurbished, its about 1/2 the price for the same thing with a scratch or a lot of times nothing wrong at all. I'll definitely try to get one if its still around when i get some more money. I'm due for a new tv and HD.
i've bought 3 things that have been refurbished and all came like new or with a little scratch or something that wouldnt be notice unless you really look, and all worked fine. And like dafoomie said once its out the box it aint new no more.

Bungie should refurb my halo 2 le, fix the cutscenes and the dent in my tin case:(
 
[quote name='THe VGM']Or I could buy neither and be happy with the TV I have right now.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for contributing nothing to this thread.
 
I have all three consoles, and i have a box switcher to switch between the systems... does that mean i have to get a new switcher to get HD for them all? How much is the HD switcher going to be...
 
to anyone who got this tv- is it looking like a good deal? No one has any horror stories like on fat wallet, do they? I guess if I don't want it, I could always sell it for more on ebay.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']If you're willing to pay double just to have the satisfaction of a "new" TV, be my guest. I would rather save the money and get a functional TV that is identical in every way. Your "new" TV isn't new once you take it out of the box. These are not "used" TV's. If something is wrong with the set, you can return it, at their expense. And given Philips's track record, your odds of getting a defective TV are about the same new as they are refurbed.[/QUOTE]

You forgot to read the fine print (You can't return it).
" Please Note: Factory Renewed products cannot be returned for credit."
http://www.outlet.philips.com/b2c_r....do?CustAnchor=POLICY&shop=OUTLET#definitions
 
[quote name='starman9000']Shoot, out of stock again. Im gonna keep checking, this will be perfect for me thanks Dafoomie if I can get it.[/QUOTE]


Quoting myself here, but just wanted to say thanks for posting this deal even if I dont get it. Sucks that I didnt see it until today. This is a good deal and the people knocking it for not being the best 52" tk421 model out there are asshats.
 
[quote name='wbc1228']You forgot to read the fine print (You can't return it).
" Please Note: Factory Renewed products cannot be returned for credit."
http://www.outlet.philips.com/b2c_r....do?CustAnchor=POLICY&shop=OUTLET#definitions[/QUOTE]
Yes, but they can be exchanged. Why would you want store credit with them anyway? They don't have any other decent deals. If you're going to knock it for not being brand new, show me a brand new, comperable TV for $500, let alone $359.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Yes, but they can be exchanged. Why would you want store credit with them anyway? They don't have any other decent deals. If you're going to knock it for not being brand new, show me a brand new, comperable TV for $500, let alone $359.[/QUOTE]

You're right. The only one that comes CLOSE is the Sanyo from Walmart that costs $200 more. I've purchased TVs from Walmart before and had to return them due to defects (brand new TVs, too, not refurbs). So I guess people would rather pay $200 more to take essentially the same risk that they may get a bad TV. Go figure.
 
I tried 10 times but still not in stock damnit but its more like $394.00 shipped when i checkout unless im supposed to use a promotional code any help fellas ?????????
 
It looks like this tv only supports 480p and 1080i

If this is true DO NOT BUY this tv. The next xbox is suppose to be 720p


• Two HD Component inputs (1080i/480p)
Easy connections for HD set-top decoders and Progressive Scan
DVD players.
• Component Video inputs
The best possible input for high resolution
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Yes, but they can be exchanged. Why would you want store credit with them anyway? They don't have any other decent deals. If you're going to knock it for not being brand new, show me a brand new, comperable TV for $500, let alone $359.[/QUOTE]

I never did "knock on it for not being brand new" (at least not in my previous post), I was just pointing out the facts. You're over reacting to other people's comments. We don't all have to agree with you.

This same deal is being discussed at fatwallet.com
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mes...eadid=455697&highlight_key=y&keyword1=philips
Some people are happy with their purchase, some are not.

Also, it seems like some SAMS CLUB is selling this identical uinit for $399.99
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mes...eadid=459473&highlight_key=y&keyword1=philips

If you want to save $40 and buy a refurbished unit (with a shorter warranty, possible cosmetic defects), then that is your decision. I know that only some people have a membership with SAMS CLUB and not every SAMS CLUB have this unit in stock. Everyone on this forum is smart enough to make their own decision (not sure about the smart part, but I'm 100% positive that we're all capable in deciding whether or not this is a hot deal).

Ohh, one final note.
The Sanyo 30" HDTV that mmn was taking about is this one.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=2601425
 
[quote name='greyzieoriental']can someone measure how wide it is from left to right? the tv not the screen
i dont wanna buy a new tv stand, might build my own[/QUOTE]


35"
 
this is a quate from a guy who works at phillips from another site ( posted today)

Per an e-mail I just received, the Outlet Store will be getting more 30PW850H99 models VERY soon. We are waiting on a decision to be made as there have been customers that have received damaged models and are now filing class action lawsuits... Will keep you informed! This could happen as soon as this evening/tomorrow morning (if it happens at all). There are approximately 200 to go around, so get your hands on one quick if you're at all interested!
 
[quote name='accameron']can anyone confirm that they sell these at Sams for $399?[/QUOTE]


Looks like they dropped to that price only momentarily and are now up to 590-something.


Edit: Looks like its not longer even listed on the phillips site for the price. Does that mean no chance of restocking or has it been down before?
 
If I missed it in the thread, my apologies. I haven't changed any of the settings while playing my xbox. I was just wondering if anyone tweaked the settings of the tv to really get the most out of the tv and xbox while gaming. If anyone has please post your setting and what you did. Thank you.
 
[quote name='Indiana']It looks like this tv only supports 480p and 1080i

If this is true DO NOT BUY this tv. The next xbox is suppose to be 720p


• Two HD Component inputs (1080i/480p)
Easy connections for HD set-top decoders and Progressive Scan
DVD players.
• Component Video inputs
The best possible input for high resolution[/QUOTE]

Well all CRT based tvs as high as 36 inches that are HDTV dont support 720p ,its how they CRT is based that it cannot do 720p they will upconvert the signal to 1080i so only if you are a videophile would you notice the difference between them . So if anyone is gonna get this tv for the new generation of systems then it should be fine.Now if Microsoft announces support for 1080p then some people might wanna wait if they have really care about the resolution .
 
Are you POSITITIVE all HDTV that don't support 720p convert it to 1080i? I know I have a 55" HDTV that supports 480p/i and 1080i, but NO 720p. I don't think it takes a 720p game and converts it....I guess I'll try again, but I doubt it. Hopefully I'm wrong
 
[quote name='doubledown']Are you POSITITIVE all HDTV that don't support 720p convert it to 1080i? I know I have a 55" HDTV that supports 480p/i and 1080i, but NO 720p. I don't think it takes a 720p game and converts it....I guess I'll try again, but I doubt it. Hopefully I'm wrong[/QUOTE]

Only CRT's tube based, direct view TVs. LCDS ,plasmas have no problem and if im correct DLP, LCOS and LCD rear-projection do support that resolution without having to upconvert it .if you have a tube thats 55 inches then that means its a rear-projection tv ( is your TV a DLP,LCOS,or LCD rear-projection TV?) . I dunno if rear-projection televisions support or dont support 720p . All i kno is that CRTS dont support it cause it has something to do with the way those tvs are made Im not to sure the reason but I remeber reading it on cnet ,so u might wanna check there. What game do you have that supports 720p I kno there are very few that do ? Oh read your manual it might have all resolutions listed that the TV supports.



EDIT:I dunno of a different type of tv be it DLP.LCOS.LCD,Plasma,LCD rear-projection that upconverts 720p to 1080i only CRT's also I kno this is true for Broadcast , dunno if its for gaming as I dont have my HDTV yet to test it out but im pretty sure it would.
 
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