4 Teens Could Spend 120 Years in Prison for Violent Rape/Sodomy

it doesn't matter what some random guy on a gaming forum thinks, the great legal minds of our nation have determined it does play a role in responsibility for self-action and that because of the underdevelopment a child cannot be held to the same standard as an adult, just as we lower the burden of responsibility and restrict sentencing on the insane and retarded

[quote name='gareman']That is an interesting point--doesn't it follow from everyone arguing against us that all the kids that witness this over 2months should be tried as adults as well? I mean if someone was raping their daughter repeatedly in front of the mom for two months and she didn't stop it or notify authorities would as an ADULT she be tried for nearly the same crimes?[/QUOTE]

i honestly don't believe any of these children realized the severity of the act, i'd bet even the victim does not yet comprehend the offense, perhaps he does, and if not he surely will one day, but i fully do not believe a kid can understand rape.. it's very complex.. even with adults -- i bet i'd be hard pressed to find an adult who could tell me why sexual assault is a greater offense than assault.. much less a child.. i'd be surprised if 1/1000 14 year olds could tell you "sexual assault is more offensive because. . ."

but yeah, it really doens't even matter if they understand rape, because the point is children have a lesser burden of responsibility and it's lunacy to cherry-pick exceptions for certain acts and excuse others, 14 year olds are either fully responsible for everything or not
 
[quote name='Koggit']it doesn't matter what some random guy on a gaming forum thinks, the great legal minds of our nation have determined it does play a role in responsibility for self-action and that because of the underdevelopment a child cannot be held to the same standard as an adult, just as we lower the burden of responsibility and restrict sentencing on the insane and retarded



i honestly don't believe any of these children realized the severity of the act, i'd bet even the victim does not yet comprehend the offense, perhaps he does, and if not he surely will one day, but i fully do not believe a kid can understand rape.. it's very complex.. even with adults -- i bet i'd be hard pressed to find an adult who could tell me why sexual assault is a greater offense than assault.. much less a child.. i'd be surprised if 1/1000 14 year olds could tell you "sexual assault is more offensive because. . ."[/QUOTE]
if random gaming forum guy had his way apparently 50% of this school's (perhaps more--rumors spread) student body would be on trial as adults for not stopping this rape or notifying authorities.
 
[quote name='Koggit']
yes, primarily due to an underdeveloped frontal lobe (as i mentioned a few dozen posts ago, i believe), as it controls forethought and thereby capacity for judgment, it's precisely why we treat children differently, it's not as if their frontal lobe lets them 'understand' crime or anything, [/QUOTE]
No it's not they defiantly knew what they where doing was wrong
[quote name='Koggit']
it influences they way they act, it has an enormous effect on empathy and consideration of consequences
[/QUOTE]
Yes it basically prevents you from doing something you want to do right now because of social/long term benefits(aka suppressing impulsiveness). Having an underdeveloped one doesn't make you come up with the idea of anally raping someone, or see it as desirable.(personally, not matter how mad I've been up someone, did I ever think of anal rape)
[quote name='Koggit']
but, regardless, it's all beyond the scope of my point -- why on earth would you say these children understood what they do so they deserve adult punishment but a juvenile thief doesn't? or how about a kid that gets in fights a lot at school? at my school there were quite a few students who got in weekly fights and were eventually expelled -- they weren't sent to jail for several years as an adult would. why not? by your logic, they understood what they were doing, getting in fights like that, bullying others, why not send them to jail for years like we would an adult? [/QUOTE]Fights are not usually premeditated, they are impulsive. If a teenager did something like bring a weapon to school specifically to use in a fight, then they should be put on trial.


[quote name='Koggit']
its not about impulsiveness, that's retarded, impulse has nothing to do with age or our legal treatment of juveniles, we don't give lighter sentence to juvenile car thieves due to impulsiveness... come the fuck on, jesus christ i hate this thread[/QUOTE]
Actully I knew some kids who got caught stealing cars/breaking into houses, while 3 of the kids (including their leader) did this impulsivly and all got community service, a 4th who planned the breakins out went to jail.
 
Absolutely anyone who knew this was going on to the extent it was and failed to report should 100% be charged as an accessory.

That is how you prevent this from happening again. That is how you get people to speak up next time, by punishing those who didn't.
 
I wish Koggit and Gareman would leave the thread so that we could all unanimously agree, much like a jury, that shoving hockey sticks and brooms up anus(s) (Is the plural forum "Anai"?) is wrong and anyone who witnesses such an event and does not say anything is also guilty of wrongdoing. It's nothing against Koggit and Garemen personally, I usually like to read what they have to say.
 
myke and foc agreed too, we've been split about 50/50, it's just they were smarter than me -- smart enough not to waste their time with this crap.. the opposition is more vocal but that doesn't make you a majority
 
I think you tarnished-- not lose, mind you-- but tarnished your ability to call the rest of us stupid when you said that six months in Juvy and one year of probation would not be too lenient for the teens.
 
[quote name='Koggit']it doesn't matter what some random guy on a gaming forum thinks, the great legal minds of our nation have determined it does play a role in responsibility for self-action and that because of the underdevelopment a child cannot be held to the same standard as an adult, just as we lower the burden of responsibility and restrict sentencing on the insane and retarded[/QUOTE]

Have they now. Like it or not, you're now quoted so we can all evaluate your words later in the light of the eventual outcome.

[quote name='Koggit']myke and foc agreed too, we've been split about 50/50, it's just they were smarter than me -- smart enough not to waste their time with this crap.. the opposition is more vocal but that doesn't make you a majority[/QUOTE]

Unless I missed it Myke's main point was that the accused are minors and even taking that into account their confession was not recorded according to Miranda - meaning that this whole case could turn out to be an American variation of George Archer-Shee. I happen to be sympathetic to this point - the one thing that the accused actually deserve is their day in court at the hands of a fair and impartial jury, this is a serious crime and any official confession should either come forward unsolicited or at the hands of a trained officer of the law.
 
Another issue here is why stuff like this happens so much in the first place: the prison-like school system.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I wish Koggit and Gareman would leave the thread so that we could all unanimously agree, much like a jury, that shoving hockey sticks and brooms up anus(s) (Is the plural forum "Anai"?) is wrong and anyone who witnesses such an event and does not say anything is also guilty of wrongdoing. It's nothing against Koggit and Garemen personally, I usually like to read what they have to say.[/QUOTE]


I never said anyone was innocent.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']Well, true, Gareman. The arguement here is how they should be held accountable for their clearly wrong actions.

I wrote my post in haste, dear friend.[/QUOTE]


I think they are guilty and should be evaluated extensively and be seen as juvenile's...because this is a juvenile crime (see what I did there) they were sticking hockey sticks and other things a young presumably nerdier kid's ass.
Slight joking aside

Its a horrible crime but these kids do not need to thrown in jail for years grow up in the jail system being know by cell-mates as child molesters, with little to no treatment then released back in to society labeled sex offenders...that is a horrible idea.
 
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Hard to believe anyone is actually sticking up for these kids. Sure they're not technically adults yet, but I certainly knew what I was doing at that age and that I'd be held responsible for my actions as well.

This is just sick. For two months, premeditated and repeatedly? It wasn't like they just screwed up once and then never did it again; they kept on and showed no remorse until they were caught.

If I was the presiding judge I doubt I could find it in myself to sentence them to 120 years, but I certainly wouldn't give them a free pass because of their age either. I hope the kid recovers from this eventually.
 
They are sex offenders. Aren't they? Would anyone's opinion be changed if they got away with this, for say, a year? I am curious if anyone's opinion of how these kids should be sentenced is swayed by the relative "short" period of two months.
 
It should change your opinion on how long these boys should be sentenced for their punishment, at least, no? Since it's the same crime, except going on for an additional 10 months.
 
i'm glad you're saying "opinion" and not harping on about justice like others did for 3 pages.


you're right that it'd affect my sentencing if sentencing these kids were my responsibility, but i'm saying it doesn't make any difference at all in the juvenile/adult discussion.
 
Is there an amount of time where you'd snap in anger, say "fuck it, these kids were doing it for ___ years, sentence them as adults."
I am curious if there is an applicable number of years for your opinion to sway to treating them as adults. 2? 4? Or would it literally have to be all the way until they become adults and they can become fully responsible for their actions?
 
i would never, under any circumstance, say that we should pretend one class is another just so that we can give them the desired treatment. they could rape a hundred people and murder them all, they should still be held to the same standard as other people of their class (14 year olds).

if consensus was that they deserve harsher punishment than legislation allows, which i would certainly agree with, then the argument should be for changing the legislation to allow for harsher punishment of their class. the solution is not to just pretend they're adults. it's nonsense. with such special cases it completely ruins the whole point of juvenile court and maximum sentences for juveniles. if people believe some juveniles 'deserve' higher sentencing, then the maximum should be higher. never should class distinction be made based on anything other than class.
 
i don't know if i'd go that far, but i can comfortably say i disagree with all cases of 14 year olds being treated as if they were adults.

age is a sliding scale, i'm not gonna say someone born 17.999 years ago should be treated different than someone born 18.001 years ago... but that's a very separate issue from differentiating based on the crime.
 
Exactly. Maybe saddling them with the label of sex offender for their entire lives is a bit extreme even though that's it exactly what happened, but they should definitely be tried as adults with something like "aggravated assault" or something having to do with premeditated harm.
 
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