Any recommendations on games with good item enchantment/synthesis systems?

RBM

RBM

CAGiversary!
I enjoy titles which include item enchantment or item synthesis systems. While this sort of game mechanic is by no means limited to pc titles, I tend to see it more often in pc titles than console games.

If anyone has any recommendations on games which allow for item enchantment or synthesis, please share them. Newer titles would be preferred, but older gems won't be sneered at (openly, anyway.) ;)

Some titles which I am already aware of, which have decent item enchantment/synthesis sytems (in my opinion):
Morrowind - great item enchantment system & fairly involved (a pity it unbalances the game so much...I have yet to try out Oblivion)
Might & Magic - I think I spent 20min using 1 scroll of enchantment, once (heh!).
Master of Magic - an ancient title, but one which offered an impressively detailed item enchantment system.

Some titles with item enchantment systems I consider to be on the light side, in terms of detail/complexity:
Arx Fatalis - not a bad item enchantment system, but somewhat limited
Diablo 2 - from what I've heard, its system allows for a fair degree of variety, but the system of "affixing jewels to weapons" is reminiscent of FF7 mechanics, to me.
Fable (TLC) - ditto. Slapping augmentations into weapon slots, with a somewhat limited set of resulting enchantments.

World of Warcraft - I've heard lots of talk, but I abstain from MMORPG's (otherwise, I think I'd be a hardcore Item Enchanter on those servers every night)
Asheron's Call - ditto
MUD's - I've sworn off of MUD's :^P
AD&D - never did go for "gaming."

Star Ocean (SS) - not a pc title, but worth mentioning
Final Fantasy 7 - ditto

*I would not consider games which allow for item modification/improvement (e.g. System Shock 2, Tron 2.0, etc.) to fall into the category of games I am asking about, here. Those item modification systems do not confer novel properties upon the items, insofar as their usage/effect, goes. They simply improve the item, and that's a different matter.

Any recommendations are welcome & appreciated!
 
Atelier Iris: Eternal Mana on the PS2 sounds like a game up your alley lots of fusion and synthesis. I think there was a sequel at e3 too.
 
The Dark Cloud series may also be up your alley. The second one in particular is almost entirely based on weapon creation and improvement with different effects at each level. It is a heavy dungeon crawl though so beware if this is not your thing.
 
Atelier Iris, eh? Thanks for sharing! I'll have to look into that.

I've already gone through Dark Cloud 2, Mr. Unoriginal, but thanks for mentioning it.

Odd...I was expecting more pc titles than console titles. This sort of thing (particularly highly detailed and intricate item enchantment) seems more like a pc game sort of thing. Hm. Or, maybe that's a mistaken imperssion of mine.

[edit: hmm...Atelier Iris's screenshots remind me a lot of Dark Cloud 2's graphics, actually. Quite a coincidence. :^) ]
 
Good Lord...just the 2 recommendations? It wasn't just my imagination, then. This sort of game mechanic really IS kind of rare to find, well-implemented in any good games!

:joystick:
 
Oh...thank you for the tip, Anderson, but I try not to dabble in MMORPG's. I tend to spend far too much time playing when I start those. :)
 
You called Morrowind, but Oblivion is good too. Almost too much.

My favorite is Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.

Jagged Alliance 2 was also good if you want to dabble in weapons modification. Way outdated now though.

EDIT: I almost forgot the X-COM series too. Great R&D that could be it's own game. Try the UFO: Aftermath/Aftershock for a modern update of the series, but it's still not X-COM.
 
Atelier iris, the first one. It has such a deep alchemic synthesis system I enjoyed the main sidequest much more than the main story.

Phantom Brave will get my top vote though as far as synthesis style upgrade games. Every item in the game, can be combined, improved, into other items, complete transfer of abilities, and can even be combined into characters. Disgaea is great too, but it's simply weapon improving, it has no real synthesis besides transfer of specialists.

i say get Phantom brave, especially since it can be found for $20 I think.
 
Thanks for the additional recommendations, guys!

Arcanum: of Steamworks & Magic Obscura
 
I know World of Warcraft isn't what you're looking for, so don't feel like you're missing out by abstaining from MMOs. It's way shallow; disenchant random items for random drops of materials to fulfill requirements for enchantment formulas. The enchantments themselves are all fixed though. It's really more a grind for quotas than the robust enchanting system it sounds like you're looking for. I expect it's the same for all MMOs, but haven't put more than 20 hours total into non-WoW MMOs.

Sacred has a component similar to Diablo 2 and Fable: select items have sockets, you put runes/gems into said sockets. Pretty bland, and not much room for user input, like there is in your top picks (MoM, Elder Scrolls).

A couple mods for Diablo 2 are worth checking into. Nezeramontias is the only one I've played and know has been updated for most recent versions of D2. It features a lot of item recipies over regular D2, plus ramps up enemy difficulty and adds some extra dungeons and items that let you generate Artifact and Item Sets out of normal equipment. Not much user control, but lots more variety and randomness than comparable games. There was another mod that increased rune and gem drop rates, decreased their effectiveness, and made it so that you could apply unlimited runes to a single item, building up all of your equipment in small increments over the course of the game. Probably the most involved item creation possible in D2, but I can't remember the mod's name.

Baldur's Gate 2 (PC) has some item creation and powering up, although it's more fixed formulas (A+B=C, no randomness, no user input).

Some variants of Angband have random enchants to them, though since they're all open source, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the variants had a full-blown user controlled item creation system added to it. Haven't looked into the classic roguelike "scene" in years.

[quote name='RBM']

...I am not sure if the frequency of console titles being suggested indicates that this sort of game mechanic is more common amongst console games... or if it reflects how console gaming has overtaken pc gaming.[/QUOTE]

It's an uncommon mechanic, especially the versions that give lots of control to the user. Most games just have you replace equipment with stronger versions, not so much customizing or tweaking of existing. It's probably evenly split between PC and consoles, just the console games involving it have been played by the masses more recently.

EDIT: On a related note, you might try some of the space 4X games like Stars! and Galactic Civilizations. Not enchanting in any way, but starting with a blank ship blueprint and putting in whatever modules you've researched to build the ship type you choose makes for lots of user-defined variety. Unless you're looking more for enchanting-themed games than just the customizability of units/equipment, it'd be a similar experience.
 
Thanks for the input, Poe! I think you have a good idea of what I'm looking for. Yes, I have played some of the space exploration games which allow you to custom fit your ship (like the Master of Orion series,) and that sort of thing is neat in its own way.

I suppose versatile item creation tends to give rise to game balance issues. It's a prime opportunity for players to abuse the system and munchkin their way to an easy victory...which they will then complain about. Morrowind was a good example of this. Item enchantment was the game's Achilles' heel, and using it allowed any character to stroll fearlessly through the hardest areas without even breaking a sweat.

Although Morrowind's enchantment system was fairly involved and fun (for me) to play with, I was ultimately disappointed with its lack of style in implementation. Realizing that the soul of a Flame Atronarch (sp?) = soul of a Bonelord = the soul of an Ogre Titum (just a hypothetical example) made it seem a lot less fun. That is, that the souls of monsters were lumped into a few broad categories, and there was no rhyme or reason as to which soul gems could be used to power which spells. Style had to take a backseat to simplicity, I suppose.

Perhaps the "next great recommendation" I was hoping for in this area doesn't really exist. Most people probably would not consider it a fun aspect of gameplay, and it lends itself toward abuse too easily if it's given too much leeway....and significant leeway would be required for the depth and "coolness" I was hoping for.

:whistle2:? (oh well...I will still try out those earlier recommendations!)
 
Jesus, I forgot about Legend of Mana. That'll keep you busy: multiple difficulty levels, item buildup, customization of the overworld map, semi-non-linear progression. There's so much to it, the Japanese strategy guide (Ultimania, but one lacking in fluff, mostly text) came in at 500+ pages. Good systems, but the lack of any instruction concerning most aspects of the game does make the whole thing almost overwhelming at times.

Dragon Quest 8 has a recipe system for item crafting. Though it's a bit more time consuming than similar systems, since you actually have to wait X amount of time before your synthesis is done 'cooking'.
 
Legend of Mana, eh? Thanks for the recommendation, crystal clear! I've added it to my list of titles to look for, in addition to Atelier Iris.

A friend of mine went through Dragon Quest 8 fairly recently, Poe. He mentioned something about its item synthesis system to me--he knows that I am fond of that aspect of gameplay--and I will have to follow up with him on that, to ask for more details.
 
Tagging this for future reference, and also suggesting Oblivion. While I haven't spent too much time enchanting stuff, the enchanting and spell making seems to be very well done and near limitless -- and the cost to add charges back to the items makes it harder to abuse.
 
Phantom Brave would definately be up your alley. Disgaea too (to a slightly lesser extent). I never did much with the specialists in weapons, but if one takes the time, I suspect you have a huge range of customization.
 
NOTRIUM! That's a really good one. Sci-fi theme; crash on an undeveloped planet and you have to make tools to survive. The entire planet is randomized each playthrough, multiple character types and multiple routes to take to different endings. And it's free.

Lost in Blue on the DS is another one worth looking into. Haven't played it too much, but what I have played focuses heavily on component gathering and item creation.

Also found a review for a game called Seal of Evil, which I've never played (never released in the US, apparently), but the review had this to say:
While Seal Of Evil doesn't break new ground when it comes to gameplay, perhaps its most innovative feature is its unique item creation tool, which basically allows a player to make (and improve) virtually any weapon/armour that suits. Throughout the course of the game, players will acquire different materials from a wide variety of sources (such as fallen enemies, trees, rocks, rewards for quests, etc). These materials, which all feature different attributes that affect attack, defense and magic, can be mixed and matched to create completely unique items. There's no hard and fast rule as to how to mix materials, leaving a player open to experiment to their heart's content.
Click to expand...

Sounds decent, and it's pretty inexpensive to import (on eBay, at least; GoGamer is asking $40). Critic reviews are mixed, but user reviews sound mostly positive.

EDIT: Fixed my inept linkage.

EDIT 2: IGN on Seal of Evil. Little more detail than that first review.
 
RBM: Good taste man! I can't really think of anything that hasn't been mentioned here already. One big thing on my watch-list is Spore which seems to have customization out the wazoo. Not exactly what you're looking for but....

Edit: Oh and maybe Alpha Centauri which, if I recall, basically lets you build all the units you use if you so desire :) Not sure how easy it is to find but where theres a will there's a way :)
 
TC for Dungeon Siege - Runeworld

Description from Wiki:
Mageworld is a Dungeon Siege Total Conversion created by Jim Farris. The map is enormous, larger than Manhattan Island, and based on a chess board. You play an anthropomorphic female equine-warrior (A White Knight), who travels across the board (via flying ships) with her pawn companion Mantri, doing battle against all of the pieces of the Black King. Mageworld has all new spells, new art, new music, and most of the combat system has been rewritten. The crafting system in Mageworld is very detailed, and has dozens of hidden "easter eggs." Virtually everything in the game that can be used by the player is crafted by the player, and crafting is the major (sometimes only) means of obtaining better equipment. The expected time to complete the single-player game is no less than one month for most players, with many taking longer. Players can expect a detailed story line and intense gaming experience that will keep them occupied for months. Gameplay is significantly more challanging than the original game and includes mental puzzles to be solved by the player. In addition, as with most Total Conversions, many of the basic game mechanics have been changed. Players will no longer have characters with health and mana pools in the hundreds or thousands (as in the original) and magic has been altered similar to the Lands of Hyperborea - spells now cost health as well as mana to cast.
Click to expand...

Haven't played this mod, but with DS running $10 at most, it's cheaper than some of the console options, and DS has more mods than just this, so there's plenty of value to justify its purchase if this isn't any good.
 
The two most recent Castlevanias, Dawn of Sorrow and Curse of Darkness, have the crafting formula system in place, a la the Atelier series, DQ 8, and Baldur's Gate 2.

Darklands has very basic item creation in its Alchemy skill. Also the Realms of Arkania series. In both cases, though, you're told exactly what makes what, so there's no real experimentation or sense of discovery at any time. I'm just mentioning them for the sake of cluing people in to good games. Though the latter title is notorious for its difficulty; you can die for travelling without enough layers of clothing during winter, starve, dehydrate, die from random illness, etc. Realms of Arkania hates you.

EDIT: Evil Islands is another one I played ages ago. Decent Diablo clone, though spells seemed a bit underpowered compared to melee. IGN's review elaborates on the item/spell creation aspect, but it's basically another formula/blueprint system.

EDIT 2:The Arc the Lad Collection (PS1), games 2 & 3 specifically, have more formula-style crafting.

EDIT 3: The Unreal World supposedly has item creation, though I've only ever spent 5 minutes total on that game, and I'm just mentioning it because of what someone on HOTU's forum said:
One of the best features has to be item creation. You have a range of items to create, starting with easy things (like firewood and cheap clay bowls) to high-quality goods. The entire process is guided -- it tells you what you need and even accepts some substitutes if you have them. The newest version has support for dabbling into farming land.
Click to expand...

Also, Sword of Mana on the GBA has a watered down version of Legend of Mana's system.

Thousand Arms has an item improvement method tied to it's dating game component.

Vagrant Story has some item construction, with a sort of affinity system, where using weapons against a type of enemy makes it more effective against that enemy's type.

EDIT 4:Tom Proudfoot's games aren't too far off from what we're talking about. No item creation, but a mix-and-match spell system. You can swap out spell syllables for others once you learn what they mean. For example, take the fireball spell, remove the 'fire' syllable, replace with 'ice' or 'death', you have a new spell. He's another one who makes his games hard, though, so be warned. I've only played Nahlakh, but it looks like they're all turn-based SRPG's.

EDIT 5:pDA game called Artificer, if you have a PDA.
 
Interesting. I picked out one of those titles which sounded interesting; Seal of Evil
is offered by Gamestop. If one uses the "freeshipall" coupon code, it comes out to $21.xx shipped.

If anyone has actually played this game, his insights would cerrtainly be welcome.

As for Notrium, that sounds kind of interesting. What can it hurt to check out a free game, after all? :)

Thanks for the recommendations!


[edit: Hm. I don't seem to have the knack to excel in Notrium. Even with the little helper...whatever it is (it looks a little like a friendly vacuum robot,) I am quickly reduced to a juicy corpse as I attempt to explore the area surrounding the crash site where the game begins. Alas. Well....that was a short-lived visit to Notrium. :whistle2:?]
 
Yes, Notrium can be a real bastard, especially if you get a random planet generated with less accessible food, or fewer weapon parts readily available. I played a fairly early version (before the alternate races were added), and about the only win condition I could manage was to build a radio to call for help. Anything involving gunfights was a bit hard for me, because I could only ever find parts to build either personal shielding/armor or a decent weapon, never both.

I also ordered Seal of Evil, but I used one of the eBay UK sellers to get it for around $20 shipped, then checked the store locator for EBGames and realized there were 3 places within a 15 minute drive I could have bought it from that day. Ah well, it's slightly cheaper this way.

There's a really obscure game called Survival Crisis Z. It's got only the most basic item creation in it (pick up a chemical, turn it into a random item; pick up electrical components, turn it into a random item), and it's kind of buggy, but it's a lot of fun. It's sort of a cross between Resident Evil and Smash TV, with some turf wars thrown in for good measure. There's a free demo available, and registration is only $10. Really more of a light action game than anything else mentioned so far, but it's worth a look for anyone seeking something a bit less involved than what's been brought up so far.

Also, I've heard a little bit about this really old Game Boy game, Mysterium. From an old Nintendo power article I saw, it looks a lot like Wizardry, but items are picked up in the dungeon, then you transmute them in elemental pools. Haven't heard anything but bad reviews about it, but it might be worth a look. At the very least, it seems uncommon, so it might actually be collectible.

EDIT: I take that back. A SUPER RARE MINT copy is worth about $4. But silverback1955 assures us it's a "must have", and why would he lie to us?
 
Well, I should have Seal of Evil arriving in the mail any day now, too. So, that's 2 guinea pigs for this pc title. :)

So far, I am a bit disappointed in Phantom Brave (I left Xenosaga II unfinished to hop straight to this title.) Its storyline seems a bit rushed, which I find surprising. Given that it was made after Disgaea..which, I feel, had a more leisurely pace & thus more fleshed-out cut scenes...you would expect that it would be more polished, if anything.

The item synthesis system in Phantom Brave (PS2...hm...I had hoped there would be more pc titles with this game mechanic...this thread seems almost misplaced, now) so far seems like one big time sink.

You can see the abilities each item can bestow upon the user once the obligatory mana (read "time spent using the item and hence playing the game") is obtained and fusing the items seems to yield predictable results (with some loss in the process.) They've complicated the picture a bit by throwing in "titles" for the items, which you can have a character class shuffle around (e.g. swapping titles between a Happy Spear & a Sad Axe, so that the resulting Sad Spear & Happy Axe have some swapped characteristics.)

So far, this playstation2 title strikes me as more of a meat grinder, insofar as item synthesis/enchantment goes. As long as you're willing to spend untold hours in front of your console, you slowly & painfully unlock the potential of your items, with some potential for mixing & matching the abilities.

It's.....not too bad. Not terribly original, however, in my opinion.
:whistle2:?

I hope Seal of Evil proves more refreshing (and fun.) Not that Phantom Brave stinks. It's just not terribly innovative, so far.
*************************************************************
Well, it took a while for Seal of Evil to grow on me, really. The voice acting is just about the worst I have ever heard (no joke) and the story has taken a while to go anywhere. Slogging through the first few dungeons with 2 characters was fairly unrewarding.

However, now that I have a larger party and my characters have learned different attack abilities--which you can bind to hot-keys & selectively allow/disallow for the AI to use--the fights are more fun.

Raw materials are all over the landscape, and one quickly compiles rows and rows of inventory items to use. You can begin item synthesis almost from the get-go, and predictably, the opening offerings are meager.

Everything exhibits one of the 5 elements (earth, metal, fire, water, and wood,) and this doesn't seem to follow any particular rhyme or reason. A lump of silver ore can exhibit the Water element, for example, a clump of cobwebs is also Water, but a snakeskin exhibits the Fire property. :whistle2:s There are also several types of wood, but they all seem to exhibit different elemental properties (eh?)

Different types of equipment call for different #'s of items, and this also varies for the class (eq is class-specific.) For example, an Assassin's dagger requires x5 item slots to be filled with raw materials, but a Witch's staff requires x6 slots.

As for the item synthesis discoveries, [POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING, I suppose] I have only come across 2 special combinations thus far (obviously, don't read this if you want to find these things for yourself):

(The Beginner's level of item synthesis does not allow for this; you need to unlock the 2nd tier of item synthesis, in which the "slot chart" for eq begins to exhibit arrows from 1 slot to another) If slot #1 has an arrow pointing to slot #2, setting a piece of raw material exhibiting the Water element in slot #1 and material with the Wood element in slot #2 will result in water giving life to the wood, resulting in a piece of equipment which bestows an increase in max HP (in addition to the normal attack/defense stats.) :bouncy:

Similarly, feeding Wood to the Fire will turn up the heat on an adversary and result in equipment with a bonus to Hitting Rate.
 
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