Plus, get ready for those companies to blame the government for overstepping their bounds/being racist/going after the free market/every other Republican talking point, and subsequently raising their prices to account for lost profits in direct relation to having to hire Americans who demand higher wages.
Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill
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depascal22
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I like your idea, thrust. I've also said that employers should be the ones that INS goes after. Unfortunately, you'll have to get your conservative brethren to find some other form of cheap labor.
This is what the issue really comes down to.
1. Conservatives get shitty about the letter of the law.
2. There's teeth mashing and other pontificating from Faux News.
3. Nothing happens. Business (with cheap labor) goes on as usual.
4. Rinse, wash, repeat.
This is what the issue really comes down to.
1. Conservatives get shitty about the letter of the law.
2. There's teeth mashing and other pontificating from Faux News.
3. Nothing happens. Business (with cheap labor) goes on as usual.
4. Rinse, wash, repeat.
[quote name='Strell']Plus, get ready for those companies to blame the government for overstepping their bounds/being racist/going after the free market/every other Republican talking point, and subsequently raising their prices to account for lost profits in direct relation to having to hire Americans who demand higher wages.[/QUOTE]
Did you ever read "The Wrecking Crew" by Thomas Frank?
Either way you are describing almost exactly what the playbook was when dealing with the island size sweatshop known as Saipan.
Did you ever read "The Wrecking Crew" by Thomas Frank?
Either way you are describing almost exactly what the playbook was when dealing with the island size sweatshop known as Saipan.
Nope. By the way, now that I remember - you had suggested "Free Lunch" and some other book long ago. I know I PM'd and you asked which ones I was referring too. I got the PM somewheres.
I should pick these up when I'm done with 1984. Which, for the record, is highly relevant today, even if I do find it astoundingly boring.
I should pick these up when I'm done with 1984. Which, for the record, is highly relevant today, even if I do find it astoundingly boring.
[quote name='Strell']Nope. By the way, now that I remember - you had suggested "Free Lunch" and some other book long ago. I know I PM'd and you asked which ones I was referring too. I got the PM somewheres.
I should pick these up when I'm done with 1984. Which, for the record, is highly relevant today, even if I do find it astoundingly boring.[/QUOTE]
I might have also recommended you "The Predator State" by James K. Galbraith and if I didn't I am now.
I should pick these up when I'm done with 1984. Which, for the record, is highly relevant today, even if I do find it astoundingly boring.[/QUOTE]
I might have also recommended you "The Predator State" by James K. Galbraith and if I didn't I am now.
[quote name='Strell']I should pick these up when I'm done with 1984. Which, for the record, is highly relevant today, even if I do find it astoundingly boring.[/QUOTE]
I always liked 1984, read it twice and watched the movie (book is better).
And Msut that's Thomas Frank as in "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Thomas Frank right? I got that book quite a while ago and finally read it a month or two ago. I like his writing style.
I always liked 1984, read it twice and watched the movie (book is better).
And Msut that's Thomas Frank as in "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Thomas Frank right? I got that book quite a while ago and finally read it a month or two ago. I like his writing style.
[quote name='SpazX']I always liked 1984, read it twice and watched the movie (book is better).
And Msut that's Thomas Frank as in "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Thomas Frank right? I got that book quite a while ago and finally read it a month or two ago. I like his writing style.[/QUOTE]
Yep, although I always confuse him with Frank Rich.
+1 for 1984, I don't remember it being boring it had quite a bit of sexxing for its time and the part right before the ending still freaks me out.
And Msut that's Thomas Frank as in "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Thomas Frank right? I got that book quite a while ago and finally read it a month or two ago. I like his writing style.[/QUOTE]
Yep, although I always confuse him with Frank Rich.
+1 for 1984, I don't remember it being boring it had quite a bit of sexxing for its time and the part right before the ending still freaks me out.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='thrustbucket']No. I advocate a path to legal immigration for them.
1) HEAVILY fine any employer hiring illegal aliens.
2) Every illegal alien has two choices: Start their greencard paperwork, or leave.
That's fair. Don't kick them out of the country, unless they have a rap sheet.
When it comes to this subject our government rewards breaking the law and punishes following the law. It's as clear cut as that. There is no grey area. Yeah that pisses me off, and it should piss you off too.
I didn't say punish, I said consequence. The consequence should be that they should not be able to return to work until they get their green card, and they have to go to the back of the line and do the same process I have been doing. That's more than fair. They still get to stay here while thousands outside the country trying to get here legally can't.
Your damn straight if I were living in poverty and I knew of a rich country that coddles people that break their laws I'd go there. What does that prove? Does that somehow prove we should not have those laws?
Beautiful strawman there.You even put a tuxedo on him.
Bringing up the past to justify breaking laws now isn't a valid argument. While we are at it why don't we pass a national guilt law about the American Indian genocide and put neon signs along the border saying "sorry for the genocide of your ancestors, brown people come back!" Would you prefer that?[/QUOTE]
When i said punishment i was refering to Bob's post. My argument is perfectly valid because it proves my point, that the term "criminal" is relative. The same way that one man's freedom fighter is another man's insurgent. You call these folks criminals in the same way that American rebels were called criminals. If they were criminals, why are they considered heroes? America loves criminals for
sake, we make heroes out of criminals.
No one seeking a better life for themselves or family should be considered a criminal, i don't care what the law says. I wish i could look at the world in such a black and white, right and wrong way, but there are far too many grey areas to do so.
1) HEAVILY fine any employer hiring illegal aliens.
2) Every illegal alien has two choices: Start their greencard paperwork, or leave.
That's fair. Don't kick them out of the country, unless they have a rap sheet.
When it comes to this subject our government rewards breaking the law and punishes following the law. It's as clear cut as that. There is no grey area. Yeah that pisses me off, and it should piss you off too.
I didn't say punish, I said consequence. The consequence should be that they should not be able to return to work until they get their green card, and they have to go to the back of the line and do the same process I have been doing. That's more than fair. They still get to stay here while thousands outside the country trying to get here legally can't.
Your damn straight if I were living in poverty and I knew of a rich country that coddles people that break their laws I'd go there. What does that prove? Does that somehow prove we should not have those laws?
Beautiful strawman there.You even put a tuxedo on him.
Bringing up the past to justify breaking laws now isn't a valid argument. While we are at it why don't we pass a national guilt law about the American Indian genocide and put neon signs along the border saying "sorry for the genocide of your ancestors, brown people come back!" Would you prefer that?[/QUOTE]
When i said punishment i was refering to Bob's post. My argument is perfectly valid because it proves my point, that the term "criminal" is relative. The same way that one man's freedom fighter is another man's insurgent. You call these folks criminals in the same way that American rebels were called criminals. If they were criminals, why are they considered heroes? America loves criminals for
sake, we make heroes out of criminals.No one seeking a better life for themselves or family should be considered a criminal, i don't care what the law says. I wish i could look at the world in such a black and white, right and wrong way, but there are far too many grey areas to do so.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='Strell']Nope. By the way, now that I remember - you had suggested "Free Lunch" and some other book long ago. I know I PM'd and you asked which ones I was referring too. I got the PM somewheres.
I should pick these up when I'm done with 1984. Which, for the record, is highly relevant today, even if I do find it astoundingly boring.[/QUOTE]
I got maybe a qurater of the way through 1984 last year and couldn't take it anymore. Incredibly boring read. I recognize lots of media which have run with the ideas in the book, but thats it.
I should pick these up when I'm done with 1984. Which, for the record, is highly relevant today, even if I do find it astoundingly boring.[/QUOTE]
I got maybe a qurater of the way through 1984 last year and couldn't take it anymore. Incredibly boring read. I recognize lots of media which have run with the ideas in the book, but thats it.
BlackwaterMerk
CAG Veteran
I think the law is retarded. I simply ask that they please learn english. NO kidding the other day I went in to a McDonalds and ordered a sausage egg Mcmuffin w/ cheese and the lady gave it to me and the cheese was completely unmelted so I turn and say " Hi, could I get you to toast this for a little longer so the cheese will melt" im greeted with "Que?" im like can you please melt the cheese a little bit? she then took it threw it away and made me a new one. I don't even know if she knew what was wrong with it in the first place.
But ya other than that I could rlly care less.
But ya other than that I could rlly care less.
thrustbucket
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[quote name='depascal22']I like your idea, thrust. I've also said that employers should be the ones that INS goes after. Unfortunately, you'll have to get your conservative brethren to find some other form of cheap labor. [/quote]
Start cutting unemployment benefits. Problem (mostly) solved.
Most people like food in their bellies more than they like to bitch.
[quote name='JolietJake']When i said punishment i was refering to Bob's post. My argument is perfectly valid because it proves my point, that the term "criminal" is relative. The same way that one man's freedom fighter is another man's insurgent. You call these folks criminals in the same way that American rebels were called criminals. If they were criminals, why are they considered heroes? America loves criminals for sake, we make heroes out of criminals.
No one seeking a better life for themselves or family should be considered a criminal, i don't care what the law says. I wish i could look at the world in such a black and white, right and wrong way, but there are far too many grey areas to do so.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I see your point.
For the sake of future discussion, let me define what "criminal" is to me:
You break a countries laws + You are inside that country = You are a criminal.
It may be a petty crime to some people like you, but it's a crime still. We either have laws and enforce them or we don't.
There is no grey area. Even if you are dirt poor and starving and you decide to steal bread, you are a criminal. You made a conscious decision to become a criminal to keep from starving to death. Be a man an admit you are a criminal and submit to the law - because your in a nation of laws and you shouldn't automatically expect leniency because you think your reason for breaking the law were noble.
____________________________
On another note, back OT, it looks like Arizona's bullish tactics are working.
Start cutting unemployment benefits. Problem (mostly) solved.
Most people like food in their bellies more than they like to bitch.
[quote name='JolietJake']When i said punishment i was refering to Bob's post. My argument is perfectly valid because it proves my point, that the term "criminal" is relative. The same way that one man's freedom fighter is another man's insurgent. You call these folks criminals in the same way that American rebels were called criminals. If they were criminals, why are they considered heroes? America loves criminals for
sake, we make heroes out of criminals.No one seeking a better life for themselves or family should be considered a criminal, i don't care what the law says. I wish i could look at the world in such a black and white, right and wrong way, but there are far too many grey areas to do so.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I see your point.
For the sake of future discussion, let me define what "criminal" is to me:
You break a countries laws + You are inside that country = You are a criminal.
It may be a petty crime to some people like you, but it's a crime still. We either have laws and enforce them or we don't.
There is no grey area. Even if you are dirt poor and starving and you decide to steal bread, you are a criminal. You made a conscious decision to become a criminal to keep from starving to death. Be a man an admit you are a criminal and submit to the law - because your in a nation of laws and you shouldn't automatically expect leniency because you think your reason for breaking the law were noble.
____________________________
On another note, back OT, it looks like Arizona's bullish tactics are working.
[quote name='BlackwaterMerk']I think the law is retarded. I simply ask that they please learn english. NO kidding the other day I went in to a McDonalds and ordered a sausage egg Mcmuffin w/ cheese and the lady gave it to me and the cheese was completely unmelted so I turn and say " Hi, could I get you to toast this for a little longer so the cheese will melt" im greeted with "Que?" im like can you please melt the cheese a little bit? she then took it threw it away and made me a new one. I don't even know if she knew what was wrong with it in the first place.
But ya other than that I could rlly care less.[/QUOTE]
queso es frio
probably good enough
Would've probably just thrown it away anyway.
But ya other than that I could rlly care less.[/QUOTE]
queso es frio
probably good enough
Would've probably just thrown it away anyway.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='thrustbucket']Start cutting unemployment benefits. Problem (mostly) solved.
Most people like food in their bellies more than they like to bitch.
Ok, I see your point.
For the sake of future discussion, let me define what "criminal" is to me:
You break a countries laws + You are inside that country = You are a criminal.
It may be a petty crime to some people like you, but it's a crime still. We either have laws and enforce them or we don't.
There is no grey area. Even if you are dirt poor and starving and you decide to steal bread, you are a criminal. You made a conscious decision to become a criminal to keep from starving to death. Be a man an admit you are a criminal and submit to the law - because your in a nation of laws and you shouldn't automatically expect leniency because you think your reason for breaking the law were noble.
____________________________
On another note, back OT, it looks like Arizona's bullish tactics are working.[/QUOTE]It's a fundamental difference then, because i can't look at someone as a criminal without consideration of the crime and reasons behind it. I guess i'm Valjean to your Javert.
Most people like food in their bellies more than they like to bitch.
Ok, I see your point.
For the sake of future discussion, let me define what "criminal" is to me:
You break a countries laws + You are inside that country = You are a criminal.
It may be a petty crime to some people like you, but it's a crime still. We either have laws and enforce them or we don't.
There is no grey area. Even if you are dirt poor and starving and you decide to steal bread, you are a criminal. You made a conscious decision to become a criminal to keep from starving to death. Be a man an admit you are a criminal and submit to the law - because your in a nation of laws and you shouldn't automatically expect leniency because you think your reason for breaking the law were noble.
____________________________
On another note, back OT, it looks like Arizona's bullish tactics are working.[/QUOTE]It's a fundamental difference then, because i can't look at someone as a criminal without consideration of the crime and reasons behind it. I guess i'm Valjean to your Javert.
depascal22
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[quote name='Strell']Look at that. I never thought I'd see so many people in one place that never speed![/QUOTE]
or jaywalk, neglect to claim lottery/casino winnings, smoke marijuana, drink underage, or drive while under the influence....
or jaywalk, neglect to claim lottery/casino winnings, smoke marijuana, drink underage, or drive while under the influence....
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='SpazX']queso es frio
probably good enough
Would've probably just thrown it away anyway.[/QUOTE]
Of course they would have, it's what any fast food place would do.
probably good enough
Would've probably just thrown it away anyway.[/QUOTE]
Of course they would have, it's what any fast food place would do.
[quote name='Strell']Look at that. I never thought I'd see so many people in one place that never speed![/QUOTE]
[quote name='depascal22']or jaywalk, neglect to claim lottery/casino winnings, smoke marijuana, drink underage, or drive while under the influence....[/QUOTE]
cmon
[quote name='depascal22']or jaywalk, neglect to claim lottery/casino winnings, smoke marijuana, drink underage, or drive while under the influence....[/QUOTE]
cmon
JolietJake
Banned
If you're going to only conisder the law then you can't look at what the offense was, just that the law was broken.
thrustbucket
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A law should be written well enough to have it's violation seriousness and consequences built in.
Jaywalking shouldn't equate possibly to a year in prison, for example.
If immigration laws are too vague to do that, then that's an additional problem. If we want sneaking over our borders to be a slap-on-the-wrist offense with a wink, then lets build that into the law that's broken.
Jaywalking shouldn't equate possibly to a year in prison, for example.
If immigration laws are too vague to do that, then that's an additional problem. If we want sneaking over our borders to be a slap-on-the-wrist offense with a wink, then lets build that into the law that's broken.
[quote name='JolietJake']No one seeking a better life for themselves or family should be considered a criminal, i don't care what the law says. I wish i could look at the world in such a black and white, right and wrong way, but there are far too many grey areas to do so.[/QUOTE]
So, Bernie Madoff, seeking a better life for him and his family shouldn't be considered a criminal?
[quote name='Strell']Look at that. I never thought I'd see so many people in one place that never speed![/QUOTE]
When I've been caught speeding (twice in my 14 years of driving), I take my ticket, wish the officer a good day and pay at the clerk's office. I don't throw a fit and tie up the court system. I don't try to dodge the ticket or leave the state. I don't complain because the police are taking on more speed patrols or if they're considering raising the penalty for speeding.
So, Bernie Madoff, seeking a better life for him and his family shouldn't be considered a criminal?
[quote name='Strell']Look at that. I never thought I'd see so many people in one place that never speed![/QUOTE]
When I've been caught speeding (twice in my 14 years of driving), I take my ticket, wish the officer a good day and pay at the clerk's office. I don't throw a fit and tie up the court system. I don't try to dodge the ticket or leave the state. I don't complain because the police are taking on more speed patrols or if they're considering raising the penalty for speeding.
JolietJake
Banned
Alright, that's it. I'm not going to be insulted any more by these stupid as hell comparisons. Comparing poor immigrants to Bernie Madoff is approaching certifiable territory and I'm not going to argue with the mentally unstable.
[quote name='JolietJake']Alright, that's it. I'm not going to be insulted any more by these stupid as hell comparisons. Comparing poor immigrants to Bernie Madoff is approaching certifiable territory and I'm not going to argue with the mentally unstable.[/QUOTE]
Both non-violent criminals, right?
[quote name='Strell']*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*[/QUOTE]
What? If they want to increase speed patrols, that's fine.
Both non-violent criminals, right?
[quote name='Strell']*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*[/QUOTE]
What? If they want to increase speed patrols, that's fine.
[quote name='JolietJake']Alright, that's it. I'm not going to be insulted any more by these stupid as hell comparisons. Comparing poor immigrants to Bernie Madoff is approaching certifiable territory and I'm not going to argue with the mentally unstable.[/QUOTE]
kind of like comparing illegal immigration to jay walking
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266792744749152.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us
a nice move, but i think its more to shut people up.
kind of like comparing illegal immigration to jay walking
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266792744749152.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us
a nice move, but i think its more to shut people up.
The problem with just giving illegals a path to citizenship is that it only encourages more illegal immigrants to come here because they will want to become citizens. If we secured the border I would have no problem with giving the current illegals a path to citizenship, but without securing the border it is pointless.
Its kind of like bailing out a boat but not plugging the leak.
Its kind of like bailing out a boat but not plugging the leak.
[quote name='Strell']I'm just counting the number of ways you're missing my point, and realizing I haven't the slightest urge or time to want to explain them.[/QUOTE]
What is your point? That people who speed break the law and should be caught more often but they don't so this justifies not doing anything with the current immigration issue?
great point.
What is your point? That people who speed break the law and should be caught more often but they don't so this justifies not doing anything with the current immigration issue?
great point.
JolietJake
Banned
You know, I wonder how many people think those hikers caught by the Iranians are criminals. The Iranian government claims they were in Iranian territory and they broke the law. So they're criminals, right?
[quote name='JolietJake']You know, I wonder how many people think those hikers caught by the Iranians are criminals. The Iranian government claims they were in Iranian territory and they broke the law. So they're criminals, right?[/QUOTE]
in the eyes of iran they are. our point of view is irrelevant.
were not talking about a few mexicans on a hike that happen to cross into arizona either.
in the eyes of iran they are. our point of view is irrelevant.
were not talking about a few mexicans on a hike that happen to cross into arizona either.
I think maybe the point Jake was getting at is that calling everybody who broke any law a criminal makes us all criminals and makes the word kinda useless (especially as it's used as a derogatory term). It's technically true though, so you can say it. They're criminals and so are we.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']in the eyes of iran they are. our point of view is irrelevant.
were not talking about a few mexicans on a hike that happen to cross into arizona either.[/QUOTE]
I'm digging at "the law is the law" ideology here. I'm trying to make my point, again, that the idea of a criminal is relative. I bet most people in the US wouldn't care if they broke the law in Iran or not, simply because it's Iran and we don't like them.
A person's idea of a criminal changes dependent on a number of things, mine just happen to be the particular crime and the circumstances surrounding it.
were not talking about a few mexicans on a hike that happen to cross into arizona either.[/QUOTE]
I'm digging at "the law is the law" ideology here. I'm trying to make my point, again, that the idea of a criminal is relative. I bet most people in the US wouldn't care if they broke the law in Iran or not, simply because it's Iran and we don't like them.
A person's idea of a criminal changes dependent on a number of things, mine just happen to be the particular crime and the circumstances surrounding it.
JolietJake
Banned
[quote name='SpazX']I think maybe the point Jake was getting at is that calling everybody who broke any law a criminal makes us all criminals and makes the word kinda useless (especially as it's used as a derogatory term). It's technically true though, so you can say it. They're criminals and so are we.[/QUOTE]
I'm just saying that the word is thrown around far too much. Our country was founded on what amounts to an illegal criminal act. Not even saying we should feel guilty, but show a little humility. We like to wag our finger and judge people without ever looking introspectively.
I'm just saying that the word is thrown around far too much. Our country was founded on what amounts to an illegal criminal act. Not even saying we should feel guilty, but show a little humility. We like to wag our finger and judge people without ever looking introspectively.
[quote name='JolietJake']You know, I wonder how many people think those hikers caught by the Iranians are criminals. The Iranian government claims they were in Iranian territory and they broke the law. So they're criminals, right?[/QUOTE]
Doesn't everyone just want Iran to send the hikers home?
Isn't that what Arizona is doing with illegal immigrants? Sending them home?
I mean, would you rather Iran keep the hikers there?
Doesn't everyone just want Iran to send the hikers home?
Isn't that what Arizona is doing with illegal immigrants? Sending them home?
I mean, would you rather Iran keep the hikers there?
I was wondering,
you guys believe that illegal immigrants are that important to our economy correct? but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?
Ok so what you guys are saying is that we should give all current illegals amnesty, leave the border the way it is even though more illegals will replace them (especially after amnesty is announced), we shouldn't deport the new illegals, but they won't be able to work anywhere because you shut down all the companies that hired them, and therefore the economy will collapse because those companies won't be able to exploit the cheap labor because the old illegals are citizens, and the new illegals wont be able to get jobs?
is it just me or does something have to break there?
you guys believe that illegal immigrants are that important to our economy correct? but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?
Ok so what you guys are saying is that we should give all current illegals amnesty, leave the border the way it is even though more illegals will replace them (especially after amnesty is announced), we shouldn't deport the new illegals, but they won't be able to work anywhere because you shut down all the companies that hired them, and therefore the economy will collapse because those companies won't be able to exploit the cheap labor because the old illegals are citizens, and the new illegals wont be able to get jobs?
is it just me or does something have to break there?
perdition(troy
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[quote name='JolietJake']You know, I wonder how many people think those hikers caught by the Iranians are criminals. The Iranian government claims they were in Iranian territory and they broke the law. So they're criminals, right?[/QUOTE]
They sure are. And you have to be pretty stupid to "accidently" go into Iran. They are now subject to Iran's laws, and I have no problem with them being held.
They sure are. And you have to be pretty stupid to "accidently" go into Iran. They are now subject to Iran's laws, and I have no problem with them being held.
[quote name='IRHari']If a company can't afford to pay fines for hiring illegal workers, they shouldn't have hired illegals in the first place. If they go out of business...well you can see my avatar on this site for what theory we're talking about here.[/QUOTE]
but you said we cant take away the illegals because the economy will falter because these companies won't have cheap labor. Im beginning to see you are all just happy with the current situation of abuse of the law, and exploitation of illegals, and believe no changes need to be made.
but you said we cant take away the illegals because the economy will falter because these companies won't have cheap labor. Im beginning to see you are all just happy with the current situation of abuse of the law, and exploitation of illegals, and believe no changes need to be made.
JolietJake
Banned
Well going after me won't do any good since i won't see it.:lol:
perdition(troy
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[quote name='Knoell']but you said we cant take away the illegals because the economy will falter because these companies won't have cheap labor. Im beginning to see you are all just happy with the current situation of abuse of the law, and exploitation of illegals, and believe no changes need to be made.[/QUOTE]
now you do.
now you do.
thrustbucket
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An update after a visit to the immigration office this morning for you all to enjoy:
Us: So, my wife never received her green card.
Fed: Our computer shows it was sent out August 9th.
Us: Well we never got it, so how do we get another one?
Fed: You have to fill out an I-90 again.
Us: Do we have to pay $400 again and wait 4 months?
Fed: Yes.
Us: And what if it gets 'lost in the mail' again?
Fed: Then you have to file for the I-90 again.
Us: So basically we have to keep paying $400, waiting 4 months and hoping one of the times we get it?
Fed: Yep.
Us: So my wife can't work, can't get a social security card, can't get a drivers license, can't reenter the country until she gets the green card, right?
Fed: That's correct.
Us: Is there any way we can pick the card up from you guys so it won't be stolen in the mail?
Fed: Absolutely not. It would make our office a circus if people could pick up their cards here. Policy is we mail them USPS.
Us: Will you send it certified mail?
Fed: No.
Us: So let me get this straight. We paid you $400, and didn't get anything. Now you are saying we have to do that again, which will take 4 months. Meanwhile she can't legally work or drive. Then in April we have to pay $500 to petition for removal of her conditional status?
Fed: That's correct.
Us: So what if it gets 'lost' in the mail system again?
Fed: That's between you and the post office.
Us: So can we just wait till next spring and file for her petition to remove conditional status?
Fed: You could do that. But she is legally required to have ID proving she's here legally at all times on her person (he's referring to the AZ law that mimics the Fed law not enforced).
A quick google search for 'didn't receive my greencard' shows this is a VERY Common problem. People go write their congressmen and senators and nothing ever happens. The ONLY thing you can do is keep paying $400, wait 4 months, and cross your fingers.
The envelopes with green cards are easy to spot, saying where they are from and you can feel the thick cards in them. People at the post office steal them to sell all the time, but there is nothing you can do about it.
I love my country.
Us: So, my wife never received her green card.
Fed: Our computer shows it was sent out August 9th.
Us: Well we never got it, so how do we get another one?
Fed: You have to fill out an I-90 again.
Us: Do we have to pay $400 again and wait 4 months?
Fed: Yes.
Us: And what if it gets 'lost in the mail' again?
Fed: Then you have to file for the I-90 again.
Us: So basically we have to keep paying $400, waiting 4 months and hoping one of the times we get it?
Fed: Yep.
Us: So my wife can't work, can't get a social security card, can't get a drivers license, can't reenter the country until she gets the green card, right?
Fed: That's correct.
Us: Is there any way we can pick the card up from you guys so it won't be stolen in the mail?
Fed: Absolutely not. It would make our office a circus if people could pick up their cards here. Policy is we mail them USPS.
Us: Will you send it certified mail?
Fed: No.
Us: So let me get this straight. We paid you $400, and didn't get anything. Now you are saying we have to do that again, which will take 4 months. Meanwhile she can't legally work or drive. Then in April we have to pay $500 to petition for removal of her conditional status?
Fed: That's correct.
Us: So what if it gets 'lost' in the mail system again?
Fed: That's between you and the post office.
Us: So can we just wait till next spring and file for her petition to remove conditional status?
Fed: You could do that. But she is legally required to have ID proving she's here legally at all times on her person (he's referring to the AZ law that mimics the Fed law not enforced).
A quick google search for 'didn't receive my greencard' shows this is a VERY Common problem. People go write their congressmen and senators and nothing ever happens. The ONLY thing you can do is keep paying $400, wait 4 months, and cross your fingers.
The envelopes with green cards are easy to spot, saying where they are from and you can feel the thick cards in them. People at the post office steal them to sell all the time, but there is nothing you can do about it.
I love my country.
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[quote name='Msut77']Knoell are you going after IR for something JJ was saying?[/QUOTE]
Im not going after anyone in particular, just rounding up the general consensus of what you guys are saying about illegal immigration. Since JJ obviously blocked me because he is afraid of views opposing his own, do you disagree with any of these points?
you guys believe that illegal immigrants are that important to our economy correct?
but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?
Im not going after anyone in particular, just rounding up the general consensus of what you guys are saying about illegal immigration. Since JJ obviously blocked me because he is afraid of views opposing his own, do you disagree with any of these points?
you guys believe that illegal immigrants are that important to our economy correct?
but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?
[quote name='Knoell']Im not going after anyone in particular, just rounding up the general consensus of what you guys are saying about illegal immigration.[/quote]
A lot of the CAG libs agree more often than not but we aren't all on the same page about every single thing and asking someone else to defend what you say some other guy said (just because apparently) is generally considered bad form.
The guy who claimed to put me on his ignore list a baker's dozen times now might not be in the strongest position here.
A lot of the CAG libs agree more often than not but we aren't all on the same page about every single thing and asking someone else to defend what you say some other guy said (just because apparently) is generally considered bad form.
The guy who claimed to put me on his ignore list a baker's dozen times now might not be in the strongest position here.
[quote name='Msut77']A lot of the CAG libs agree more often than not but we aren't all on the same page about every single thing and asking someone else to defend what you say some other guy said (just because apparently) is generally considered bad form.
The guy who claimed to put me on his ignore list a baker's dozen times now might not be in the strongest position here.[/QUOTE]
HE took the first step to defending the point when HE responded to me. How was I asking him to do anything?
I have you on my ignore list, but I click the see post button to check if you have anything relavent to say.
I noticed you didn't bother answering my question.
The guy who claimed to put me on his ignore list a baker's dozen times now might not be in the strongest position here.[/QUOTE]
HE took the first step to defending the point when HE responded to me. How was I asking him to do anything?
I have you on my ignore list, but I click the see post button to check if you have anything relavent to say.
I noticed you didn't bother answering my question.
soulvengeance
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 195 (100%)
[quote name='Knoell']Im not going after anyone in particular, just rounding up the general consensus of what you guys are saying about illegal immigration. Since JJ obviously blocked me because he is afraid of views opposing his own, do you disagree with any of these points?
you guys believe that illegal immigrants are that important to our economy correct?
but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?[/QUOTE]
Well I guess I'll bite.
I believe they are somewhat important to the economy, yes.
I guess there should be tougher penalties, what are the current penalties?
I think the companies will survive without them, although I'm sure they'll have to raise prices on some items.
I'm still on the fence whether they should be deported or not, I liked thrusts' idea in this case, give them a path to citizenship, except for illegals with criminal records.
Build a bigger fence.
you guys believe that illegal immigrants are that important to our economy correct?
but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?[/QUOTE]
Well I guess I'll bite.
I believe they are somewhat important to the economy, yes.
I guess there should be tougher penalties, what are the current penalties?
I think the companies will survive without them, although I'm sure they'll have to raise prices on some items.
I'm still on the fence whether they should be deported or not, I liked thrusts' idea in this case, give them a path to citizenship, except for illegals with criminal records.
Build a bigger fence.
soulvengeance
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 195 (100%)
[quote name='perdition(troy']They sure are. And you have to be pretty stupid to "accidently" go into Iran. They are now subject to Iran's laws, and I have no problem with them being held.[/QUOTE]
Eh, I don't know about this. It's not like in a game where you can see the line where the borders are. Seems like a bit of overreaction on Iran's part really.
Eh, I don't know about this. It's not like in a game where you can see the line where the borders are. Seems like a bit of overreaction on Iran's part really.
[quote name='Knoell']you guys believe that illegal immigrants are that important to our economy correct?
but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?[/QUOTE]
- That important? I don't think they're a drain on the economy.
- Yes
- No
- All of them? No.
- What kind of amnesty?
- Secure to what degree? Completely? Of course not. More than it is now? Probably, yeah, but not for free or with a big wall.
but at the same time you believe there should be tougher penalties for companies that hire them correct?
you also believe that these companies cannot survive without this cheap labor correct?
you also do not think we should deport them correct?
You believe they should be given amnesty correct?
and finally you don't think it is possible to secure the border correct?[/QUOTE]
- That important? I don't think they're a drain on the economy.
- Yes
- No
- All of them? No.
- What kind of amnesty?
- Secure to what degree? Completely? Of course not. More than it is now? Probably, yeah, but not for free or with a big wall.
JolietJake
Banned
I'm afraid of Knoell's ignorance and i'm tired of sinking to his idiotic level of thought to argue with him. I'm not going to lower myself to arguing with him quite frankly.
bread's done