Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch

[quote name='depascal22']It's not that he thinks there are only whites and non-whites. The enforcement of the law makes it seem that a white person can claim self-defense and get away with murder. We all

One other thing in the case bugs me. I wonder if the cops would've arrested Zimmerman if his last name was Rodriguez. Everyone seems to be pointing to the fact that he's Hispanic and that somehow proves that minorities are just as racist (if not more) than whites. Why?[/QUOTE]

I don't know what he "thinks" I just read what he typed. He said whites and non-whites in a false arguement.

As far as the police arresting zimmerman they wanted to but the DA said there isn't enough evidence. So you don't have to "wonder" anymore. The facts are there.
I didn't know everyone was pointing to him being hispanic and that somehows proves minorities are just as racist. That is the first I have heard this from this event.
As far as the rest of your response...Anyone is capable of racism and it does exist in many people across cultures, etnicities and the sexes.
 
[quote name='depascal22']It's not that he thinks there are only whites and non-whites. The enforcement of the law makes it seem that a white person can claim self-defense and get away with murder. We all

One other thing in the case bugs me. I wonder if the cops would've arrested Zimmerman if his last name was Rodriguez. Everyone seems to be pointing to the fact that he's Hispanic and that somehow proves that minorities are just as racist (if not more) than whites. Why?[/QUOTE]

I think that some people just don't want to admit that their race is just as racist as anyone else. So when they can point and say "He's Hispanic!", it acts as a "Whew, now we don't have to be worried about this turning into yet another white vs black crime" and pushes it off onto other people.

Every race has racists in it. Some just don't like feeling associated with them.
 
[quote name='HaloSucks']Really the only fool I see is you who continual refuse to accept that there are issues that continue to be swept under the rug.

Oh yea, and we all know that we live in a country were the laws treat everyone equally.. You sir, takes the cake for being a TOTALLY BLIND fool.:booty:[/QUOTE]

I addressed what you stated in your post as being wrong and this is how you respond?

I will take it that you by now avoiding it understand how wrong you were but don't have the courage to admit it.

What issues are you talking about that I refuse to accept that are being swept under the rug? That is a broad statement that addresses no issue or detail. You should take personal stock on your statement as you are the one avoiding the topic now and redirecting to vague things that aren't clarified.
 
@pilskin The police could've brought him into the station for questioning. If someone guns a man down on someone else's property, then he should at least go downtown for questioning. Hell, if you shoot and kill anyone, you should go in for questioning. Our society's cavalier attitude about cold-blooded murder is seriously making me consider another country.

@4thHoreseman I can dig that. It's the "not my family/friends/neighbors" syndrome. Nobody wants to associate with crazy and you distance yourself anyway you can even if it's just imaginary.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I book-ended that statement with the reason why I feel that way. If you feel I'm wrong, then a proper response from you would be to outline why you think it's an idiotic statement.


I've outlined countless times how racism operates in this forum and probably at least a dozen time in this thread alone, which I'm sure you haven't read the entirety of. The only thing you've graced us with is vapid post after vapid post. You bitch about no one wanting a serious debate, yet you persist in not providing anything of value.


What does consciously saying something immoral have to do with children being moral in nature as if children aren't sponges that soak up everything they see?

Even then, what about is so absurd about those statements and delusional beyond you saying so, as if you've proven that you're any authority on anything beyond being a bad troll?


Frankly, I'm surprised that you didn't say "udder gibberish" considering the couple sentences that came before it.[/QUOTE]

Alright once more will I play into your twisted game.

"the police shielding Zimmerman"
That is what you said and now you are defending it by saying that is how you feel whereas the way you worded it was as fact. I addressed it as false and will again. Just because it is your feelings that does not make it true. It is false statement by you and worded as fact then changed to feeling. Feeling is not fact and making false statements under any guise is wrong.

Next item:
"is the lack of the ability of most of the country to understand racism beyond an elementary school level"

That is what you said and I addressed that by saying...

"Also part of the circus is the statement most of the nation does not understand racism beyond an elementary level but those making those kind of statements are the ones making idiotic statements,lumping and making blanket statements that are utterly false. They are the ones that can't comprehend beyond an elementary level"
....
and your response to this you is quoted above.

Fact is you made a blanket statement that is false and did not say anything in response to prove otherwise.

The rest I have addressed and I am sorry that I brought up that children are generally moral and that bothered you somehow. By saying it I did leave it open for someone to pounce on nature vs nurture. I wasn't very clear on that and it really shouldn't have been put in there.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']I addressed what you stated in your post as being wrong and this is how you respond?

I will take it that you by now avoiding it understand how wrong you were but don't have the courage to admit it.

What issues are you talking about that I refuse to accept that are being swept under the rug? That is a broad statement that addresses no issue or detail. You should take personal stock on your statement as you are the one avoiding the topic now and redirecting to vague things that aren't clarified.[/QUOTE]

The first thing people see is the color of skin, regardless of ethnicity or whatnot..

And we all know that the lighter your skin color the more benefit of the doubt you are given.

So my statement of white and non-white is simple to understand, you are just trying to complicate the matter in your own head.

Just the death of UNARMED minorities by the hands of the police is enough to show the clear bias the permeates in this country. However there have been numerous cases where WHITEs who goes on a shootout with cops are NEVER killed only wounded..
Feel free to google up all those cases
 
[quote name='depascal22']@pilskin The police could've brought him into the station for questioning. If someone guns a man down on someone else's property, then he should at least go downtown for questioning. Hell, if you shoot and kill anyone, you should go in for questioning. Our society's cavalier attitude about cold-blooded murder is seriously making me consider another country.

@4thHoreseman I can dig that. It's the "not my family/friends/neighbors" syndrome. Nobody wants to associate with crazy and you distance yourself anyway you can even if it's just imaginary.[/QUOTE]

That is better... brought in for questioning is different then wondering if he had been arrested if he was hispanic. The police did want to arrest him.

Also he was brought in for questioning.

"Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, even though he had requested medical attention first. "
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']I think that some people just don't want to admit that their race is just as racist as anyone else. So when they can point and say "He's Hispanic!", it acts as a "Whew, now we don't have to be worried about this turning into yet another white vs black crime" and pushes it off onto other people.

Every race has racists in it. Some just don't like feeling associated with them.[/QUOTE]

Actually many other race are racist toward other race, its not just black vs. white or vice versa..

In this case, the reason they wanted to make sure Zimmerman is call a hispanic, is because it takes the pressure from the white people for a change.. Think of it as throwing someone else under the bus.. They are just glad that it isn't the "white people" for once.. And for a hispanic to have a white person last name made it even more important to let the world know this guy ain't white.
 
[quote name='4thHorseman']Every race has racists in it. Some just don't like feeling associated with them.[/QUOTE]
Not exactly. There's a legitimate argument that people of color can't be racist because as a group, they lack the institutional power to oppress others on an institutional level.
 
[quote name='HaloSucks']The first thing people see is the color of skin, regardless of ethnicity or whatnot..

And we all know that the lighter your skin color the more benefit of the doubt you are given.

So my statement of white and non-white is simple to understand, you are just trying to complicate the matter in your own head.

Just the death of UNARMED minorities by the hands of the police is enough to show the clear bias the permeates in this country. However there have been numerous cases where WHITEs who goes on a shootout with cops are NEVER killed only wounded..
Feel free to google up all those cases[/QUOTE]

....and again false statements or not worded properly by you. "People" is a broad statement....
What "people" first see the color of your skin? Do you mean ALL people because that is not true.
We have all pretty much addressed and understand that some people across the spectrum will or do see others that way first. So again you are wrong in your wording or your facts or both.

"we all know" said by you again as fact and followed by some truth but not total truth.

You still have not addressed being wrong with your false statement about how the stand your ground law started out. You made a false statement again as fact and was told you are wrong. Admit it this is a pattern now with your posts the facts and truth seems to escape you but you keep plugging away bull sh#t anyway and making broad and blanket statements that serve no purpose in the pursuit of truth or fact.
 
I wonder where is that police interrogation tape whenever they bring in someone to the station to be questioned..

Or did these police just took Zimmerman's word and say hey we believe you.. gave him a wink wink and let him go

I bet if the role was reversed, those police are going to GRILL the guy till he crack
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']and again false statements or not worded properly by you. "People" is a broad statement....
What "people" first see the color of your skin? Do you mean ALL people because that is not true.
We have all pretty much addressed and understand that some people across all the spectrum do see others that way first. So again you wrong in your wording or your facts or both.

"we all know" said by you again as fact and followed by some truth but not total truth.

You still have not addressed being wrong with your false statement about how the stand your ground law started out. You made a false statement again as fact and was told you are wrong. Admit it this is a pattern now with your posts the facts and truth seems to escape you but you keep plugging away bull sh#t anyway and making broad and blanket statements that serve no purpose in the pursuit of truth or fact.[/QUOTE]

Really so when you see a person, you don't see the skin color first? :booty:

Are you willfully being unintelligent
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Alright once more will I play into your twisted game.[/QUOTE]
Ha? You mean that now you're going to make nuanced points directly addressing arguments instead of just making generalized statements? I can't wait!

"the police shielding Zimmerman"
That is what you said and now you are defending it by saying that is how you feel whereas the way you worded it was as fact. I addressed it as false and will again. Just because it is your feelings that does not make it true. It is false statement by you and worded as fact then changed to feeling. Feeling is not fact and making false statements under any guise is wrong.
Click to expand...
Eh? Arguing semantics isn't a nuanced approach. But here's my easily researched proof: Coaching of Zimmerman for his account, witness tampering, the police chief making comments about Martin being responsible for being shot, the police department leaking info about martin, and the federal investigation into the case and the department.

Next item:
"is the lack of the ability of most of the country to understand racism beyond an elementary school level"

That is what you said and I addressed that by saying...

"Also part of the circus is the statement most of the nation does not understand racism beyond an elementary level but those making those kind of statements are the ones making idiotic statements,lumping and making blanket statements that are utterly false. They are the ones that can't comprehend beyond an elementary level"
....
and your response to this you is quoted above.
Click to expand...
Again, I've defined racism countless times in the forum and described how it operates on different levels within this very thread. If you say that people understand racism beyond how it was defined in grade school, why don't you give your own definition of racism and we can discuss the merits(LOLZ) of your "definition."

Fact is you made a blanket statement that is false and did not say anything in response to prove otherwise.
Click to expand...
Actually, the fact is that you haven't read through the thread to see if it was false or proved anything.

The rest I have addressed and I am sorry that I brought up that children are generally moral and that bothered you somehow. By saying it I did leave it open for someone to pounce on nature vs nurture. I wasn't very clear on that and it really shouldn't have been put in there.
Click to expand...
You haven't addressed shit because not only do you not know anything about racism, but you don't know anything about childhood development.

I thought you were implying that you were going to give nuanced arguments as to why you're right and I'm wrong? I am disappoint, son.
 
[quote name='HaloSucks']Really so when you see a person, you don't see the skin color first? :booty:

Are you willfully being unintelligent[/QUOTE]

No I do not see color first. I see a human being first.

and what??

Still making absurd statements I see. Your pattern continues...shocking:whistle2:#

edit: LMAO.... read your question... "when you see a person" helllo mcfly??
 
pohdough are you on drugs? Please go back to my advice and seek some help you are all over the damn place.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']No I do not see color first. I see a human being first.

and what??

Still making absurd statements I see. Your pattern continues...shocking:whistle2:#

edit: LMAO.... read your question... "when you see a person" helllo mcfly??[/QUOTE]

So you are to admit that your brain can't tell a human being from another species automatically and that you need to process that information first before going on to skin color. Are you a robot who needs to be rebooted everytime? :booty:

Thanks for being willfully unintelligent...
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']No I do not see color first. I see a human being first.

and what??

Still making absurd statements I see. Your pattern continues...shocking:whistle2:#

edit: LMAO.... read your question... "when you see a person" helllo mcfly??[/QUOTE]
Ignoring race doesn't make the racism problem go away anymore than you can make someone's hearing problem go away by ignoring that they're deaf.

Your answer alone illustrates how little you know about race and racism. I can't wait til you quote that little snippet of MLK's speech while ignoring the rest of it.
 
Holy shit!! I am done with you two pohdogh and halosucks.

I am a bad person and unintelligent and know nothing about racism because when I see a person I see a person first?!!

But all your blanket statements are that what is wrong with the world and "everyone" in it is that they see color first.

You folks are too much and either you are playing sick twisted games, are on drugs, have a mental disorder, are stupid or all the above.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Holy shit!! I am done with you two pohdogh and halosucks.

I am a bad person and unintelligent and know nothing about racism because when I see a person I see a person first?!!

But all your blanket statements are that what is wrong with the world and "everyone" in it is that they see color first.

You folks are too much and either you are playing sick twisted games, are on drugs, have a mental disorder, are stupid or all the above.[/QUOTE]

Thats hilarious, cause I can tell automatically a Human from say a Dog..

I know when I look at people I see skin color first, doesn't make me a racist, just makes me a rational thinking person..

Next you try to say you I don't see the person's sex ( as in M / F ) first I see a human being first..

Willfully unintelligent.....:booty:
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Holy shit!! I am done with you two pohdogh and halosucks.

I am a bad person and unintelligent and know nothing about racism because when I see a person I see a person first?!![/quote]
The legacy and effects of racism exist and persist whether you acknowledge the existence of race or not. Ignoring it only allows it to perpetuate itself.

But all your blanket statements are that what is wrong with the world and "everyone" in it is that they see color first.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you should familiarize your self with the concept of the social construction of race.

You folks are too much and either you are playing sick twisted games, are on drugs, have a mental disorder, are stupid or all the above.
Click to expand...
hyuk hyuk hyuk
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Holy shit!! I am done with you two pohdogh and halosucks.

I am a bad person and unintelligent and know nothing about racism because when I see a person I see a person first?!!

But all your blanket statements are that what is wrong with the world and "everyone" in it is that they see color first.

You folks are too much and either you are playing sick twisted games, are on drugs, have a mental disorder, are stupid or all the above.[/QUOTE]
You're welcome to leave, door is that way --->. No sense in wasting your time talking to a bunch of crazy people.
 
[quote name='depascal22']
You don't think we see that Hispanics can chill for a few generations and eventually become white while we can't scrub the blackness off our skin and become "more American"?[/QUOTE]
Ask Compton Latinos how American they can be when the city's black politicians use underhanded tactics to keep the brown invaders out of local government.

Tribalism is human nature and it will never, ever go away. If ending it is what it takes for blacks to advance, then good luck.[quote name='depascal22']@pilskin The police could've brought him into the station for questioning. If someone guns a man down on someone else's property, then he should at least go downtown for questioning. Hell, if you shoot and kill anyone, you should go in for questioning. Our society's cavalier attitude about cold-blooded murder is seriously making me consider another country.
[/QUOTE]
Zimmerman was handcuffed and taken into police custody. He was questioned for five hours and his firearm was confiscated.
 
[quote name='GUNNM']So its pretty much confirmed at this point hes acted in self defense?[/QUOTE]
No. Nothing at all about the case is confirmed. It's fun to speculate and play Internet courtroom, but we have a major gap in the timeline of events that night.

It would make a very compelling episode of Law & Order.
 
[quote name='renique46']http://abcnews.go.com/US/video/geor...?tab=9482931&section=1206839&playlist=9660543

Yeah this guy sure does look beat up. I mean his face is so beat up from being smashed into the pavement you cant even recognize him, those lacerations on his head are just to ugly to see. Martin gave him one hell of a beating :roll:[/QUOTE]
While I strongly agree with your sentiment, I believe that he was treated by paramedics at the scene, so that would explain why he looks cleaned up and bruises wouldn't show up for a bit. Although, for someone that allegedly had a broken nose, his shirt is pretty clean looking and there doesn't appear to be any signs of swelling, which would show up Very quickly.
 
[quote name='dohdough']While I strongly agree with your sentiment, I believe that he was treated by paramedics at the scene, so that would explain why he looks cleaned up and bruises wouldn't show up for a bit. Although, for someone that allegedly had a broken nose, his shirt is pretty clean looking and there doesn't appear to be any signs of swelling, which would show up Very quickly.[/QUOTE]
I agree but my only question is about why there is no blood on his shirt. I suppose it is possible that blood would miss the shirt, but when I have gotten a bloody nose in the past and I didn't notice quickly enough, I ended up with a ruined shirt.

I think his stupid lawyer has a big mouth and trumped up his injuries, but I don't see anything yet that conflicts with the police report.
 
Am I the only one who found it odd that the police didn't make sure he tried to escape from that scenario? The dude literally walked around a bike one way while the cop went another. And it also looked like they were pretty calm about the whole situation, just by observing their body language. You think it'd be more tense.
 
That's my mistake then. I was under the assumption that was just taken away from the scene and released. The video sure makes it seem like they brought him in but didn't really attempt to grill him or get to the bottom of the whole situation. Like Broly said, everyone seems calm and he's walking freely.
 
[quote name='Spokker']I agree but my only question is about why there is no blood on his shirt. I suppose it is possible that blood would miss the shirt, but when I have gotten a bloody nose in the past and I didn't notice quickly enough, I ended up with a ruined shirt.

I think his stupid lawyer has a big mouth and trumped up his injuries, but I don't see anything yet that conflicts with the police report.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure that the reports of his injuries came out before his lawyer made any statements.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Am I the only one who found it odd that the police didn't make sure he tried to escape from that scenario? The dude literally walked around a bike one way while the cop went another. And it also looked like they were pretty calm about the whole situation, just by observing their body language. You think it'd be more tense.[/QUOTE]
I noticed that as well. It's obvious to me that there's no way to escape, so there's no need worry about that, but there's definitely something going on there.
 
[quote name='dohdough']While I strongly agree with your sentiment, I believe that he was treated by paramedics at the scene, so that would explain why he looks cleaned up and bruises wouldn't show up for a bit. Although, for someone that allegedly had a broken nose, his shirt is pretty clean looking and there doesn't appear to be any signs of swelling, which would show up Very quickly.[/QUOTE]

Didn't he not even get medical attention to the day after?
 
[quote name='renique46']Didn't he not even get medical attention to the day after?[/QUOTE]
I believe that according to his lawyer, he did, but didn't disclose the treatment he got. I'm going from memory, so I could be wrong on this one.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']It also strikes me odd that in the video Zimmerman looks NOTHING like the original mugshot, either.[/QUOTE]
It was already reported by his neighbor that he looked different. As in 30lbs lighter. Not to mention that the lighting for mugshots aren't exactly great.

Oh, and the resolution from the police video isn't great either.
 
Oh and his clothes are mysteriously clean. Like way too clean for someone that supposedly was in a literal fight for his life from being pummeled on a lawn.

edit: From the reports, I think that the cops might've just seen a little blood and wrote it down without describing the intensity of bleeding, or lack there of.

edit2: I know we're not fans of Nancy Grace, but the funeral director said that there was no sign of injuries on Martin's hands.

http://nancygrace.blogs.cnn.com/201...ns-of-fight-on-trayvons-hands/?iref=allsearch
 
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[quote name='dohdough']Oh and his clothes are mysteriously clean. Like way too clean for someone that supposedly was in a literal fight for his life from being pummeled on a lawn.[/QUOTE]

True. The first lawyer for Zimmerman that was on tv didn't sound too bright. At this point I really don't know what else to expect from this case.
 
Did you guys see that on that video? The cops had what looked like swastikas hidden under the sleeves of their uniforms and I could make out what might be a partial KKK outfit under the clothes. Did you also see that by the body language that they were all buddy buddy with eack other. Something strange is going on here. I also swore I saw a tin foil hat on the ground under the bike under the floor.
It also seemed that by the video there is a huge conspiracy between all the cops the police department the state and all the people in the united states and zimmerman. This man did not act alone. I could swear There was another shooter on the grassy knoll.
 
[quote name='Pliskin101']Did you guys see that on that video? The cops had what looked like swastikas hidden under the sleeves of their uniforms and I could make out what might be a partial KKK outfit under the clothes. Did you also see that by the body language that they were all buddy buddy with eack other. Something strange is going on here. I also swore I saw a tin foil hat on the ground under the bike under the floor.
It also seemed that by the video there is a huge conspiracy between all the cops the police department the state and all the people in the united states and zimmerman. This man did not act alone. I could swear There was another shooter on the grassy knoll.[/QUOTE]
Another nuanced gem from our new vs. troll.
 
Zimmerman didn't look all that bad in the video, they either did a good job cleaning him up at the scene or they definitely lied on the police reports about the extent of the injuries.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Zimmerman didn't look all that bad in the video, they either did a good job cleaning him up at the scene or they definitely lied on the police reports about the extent of the injuries.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, if he was cut like the reports implied and his lawyer insisted, he should be covered in his own blood. If his nose was broken, he'd have some serious difficulty breathing through his nose as well and would've required immediate medical attention.
 
Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

Don't know how much I believe that is a cut, but it could be =\
 
[quote name='dohdough']If his nose was broken, he'd have some serious difficulty breathing through his nose as well and would've required immediate medical attention.[/QUOTE]


It's not always difficult to breathe when you get your nose broken, depending on how bad it is. Not to defend the guy, but I'm just sayin'.

Also, I can't imagine whatever that is in the picture on the back of the guy's head is a cut. If he had a cut that large and it wasn't properly dressed, I would think that it would be bleeding like crazy.
 
I think Zimmerman over made his excuse of how hurt he was...

Thats where the key to his defense may win or break... If you can show his excuse was more over exaggerate then the truth.. Then Zimmerman had no right to use any deadly force
 
But where was his right to chase? I dont see how someone can get out of their car and chase another person without cause other than..."uhhh dat guy look dangerous!"

Before you even get into the fight I am still waiting to know why cause you have to randomly chase people when you know you have a weapon.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']But where was his right to chase? I dont see how someone can get out of their car and chase another person without cause other than..."uhhh dat guy look dangerous!"

Before you even get into the fight I am still waiting to know why cause you have to randomly chase people when you know you have a weapon.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Martin had reasonable belief that he was in danger and the right to defend himself. Zimmerman had no uniform that identified him as some sort of security no neighborhood watch uniform or identified himself as such, did he? Martin rightly so feared for his own safety.

So I wonder if the stand your ground law is actually the law that will be used in Martins favor. We know that it doesn't apply to zimmerman's defense but most likely does to martin.

There is no way in hell this was a justifiable homicide.
 
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