Boycotting COD6 due to leaked scenario

It's been a while, but I don't remember GTAIV forcing you to kill innocent people. You certainly could, but it wasn't the goal. I might be forgetting some particular mission though.

In any case, I don't think OPs previous game history bars him from having an opinion. The OP hasn't really spelled out their objections all that well, but I don't see why he couldn't have a problem with this particular implementation of violence while not having a problem with others, even if it involves civilians.

Personally, it really depends on the context to me. It could be done terribly and offensively or it could be done to show a different perspective and wouldn't be that offensive. I don't really know enough about it to judge. Likewise I don't really know enough about the OP to call him a hypocrite.

But of course the complaining about complaining always vastly outweighs the original complaint or any actual discussion. The internets and everything.
 
[quote name='chrisnsally']Flame away, but after watching the recently leaked footage of the player gunning down civilians as an undercover terrorist, I can't support the company. If you haven't seen it, it's REALLY disturbing.

Yes, I understand there is violence in games - I enjoy many of them. Yes, I understand there are worse things in movies. But I don't have to support them.

I was really looking forward to playing it, too. :bomb:[/QUOTE]

I had no plan to buy or play the new COD (I've never played any of them), but I can understand where you are coming from. Good for you that you made that decision for yourself. I hate that you have been pretty much ridiculed for your feelings on the issue. You have standards and limits and you know them best. I have a feeling once the game comes out and the part in question is put in a better context, that your feeling on it may change. I hope you do get to enjoy the game eventually as you clearly wanted it.
 
I hope that there is some sort of option to put faces on the civilians using your own pics so I can make use of the CAG pic thread and kill all you mofo's!!


j/k






Or am I!?!?!??! Muhahahahahah!! Video games have turned me evil!!!!
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
It's an overly simplistic "violence = violence = violence" argument, and it's not as self-evident as some of you seem to think. I'd like to see someone make a compelling argument that the content of Grand Theft Auto renders moot any claim of offensiveness due to violent content in another game.
[/QUOTE]

I think the issue is that he stated he has problem with the killing of civillians and GTA is a series revolving around killing civilians, cops etc.

So the context of the violence is somewhat related, at least as it pertains to violence against civilians.

But I agree the OP has caught too much flak for this, as to be expected I guess for posting such an opinon on a game site where people will defend just about anytype of video game to the death.

I have no problem with the footage--it's just a game. But I have no problem with the OP being bothered by it and not wanting to buy it.

On the other hand, I do see some of the critics points. As railing against civilian violence in one context (terrorist in an airport) while apparently having no problem with violence against civilians in another context (GTA) is putting your moral principle stick in the ground very firmly. It's fine to have very nuanced principles, but as I said earlier, probably better have very clear principles if you're going to rail against it online and encourage a boycott--which is what he was doing. If he just was put off and didn't want to play it and didn't care if others did--no need for this post.
 
OP is just pissed that he has to play one of "dem terrists." Not too pissed about playing Nico Bellic, etc killing civilians. As most Americans, OP has no understanding of the concept of terrorism and what it is. Most in the USA think terrorism is only what is done to them and not to others. And of course not done by the US gov't, golly gee-willikers. You want terrorism, check out 50+ years of it before anyone with funny sounding names came along...

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/KillingHope_page.html
Excellent and thoroughly researched book on US foreign policy.

And for dreamed about terrorism against its own population...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwoods
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I would normally agree with your well-thought out viewpoint.

But I read the thread, and I saw zero of the intellectually nuanced perspective you provide, and 100% more schoolyard teasing from grown adults premised on phony analogies.[/QUOTE]

I hereby grant you permission to both agree with my viewpoint ( ;) ) *and* not care for how others have attempted to make the same argument.

[quote name='mykevermin']I don't buy the premise that owning and playing GTA, or any kind of violent game, for that matter, means that it's hypocritical to think some games, or their specific scenarios, are too violent or offensive to want to own.

It's an overly simplistic "violence = violence = violence" argument, and it's not as self-evident as some of you seem to think. I'd like to see someone make a compelling argument that the content of Grand Theft Auto renders moot any claim of offensiveness due to violent content in another game.

I get that it's a matter of opinion, and that the game's going to sell 8 million easy cheesy. But I also think, if you see no merit to the OP's argument, "I bet you played GTA" is not particularly convincing.[/QUOTE]

The problem is that the OP's sole criteria for offensiveness appears to be killing civilians. Not killing especially realistic civilians. Not killing civilians in an extremely brutal way. Not killing defenseless civilians, or civilians of a specific ethnic background, or civilians you've grown to love over the course of the game. Just civilians. By that metric, there are plenty of other games that he should be avoiding, GTA included. If his criteria is more specific than that, it would have behooved him to mention it in his posts.

[quote name='SpazX']It's been a while, but I don't remember GTAIV forcing you to kill innocent people. You certainly could, but it wasn't the goal. I might be forgetting some particular mission though.[/QUOTE]

The trade-off is that if you're a good enough getaway driver, you're never held culpable for your murderous actions, unlike the Player in the CoD footage, who is unavoidably delivered his just desserts. One could easily argue that if it were necessary for video-games to impart some moral lesson, CoD seems to be miles ahead of games the OP is perfectly comfortable playing.

I'm a little surprised at the tone of some of the OP's defenders, which seems to be that not only should objections to his position be made reasonably, but that he should be flat-out supported for making his own decision about the game. I think that misinterprets the OP's position, insofar as he's given one (it may just be a poor choice of words on his part). I'd like to remind many of those people that the OP didn't simply say he wasn't comfortable playing the game, and so wouldn't be buying it. He could have done that without starting a thread about it. He said he was boycotting it -- a boycott being an attempt to make a statement of position via economic pressure -- and he came in here looking for support. Sorry; not only can I not do that, but I would actively encourage others not to support him in it, either. Thinking about the games you're playing is commendable; encouraging censorship is not.

EDIT: Also, what DMaul said.
 
sorry - allow me to clarify the obvious - it's killing unarmed civilians WHO ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU IN FEAR. they're not infected zombies trying to kill you, or even the cartoony idiots in GTA. It's realistic as hell, bloody as hell, and disturbing as hell. If you've seen it and weren't even a little disturbed, good for you. I'm putting my $ toward Uncharted 2 or some other game that doesn't involve killing civilians.
 
[quote name='chrisnsally']sorry - allow me to clarify the obvious - it's killing unarmed civilians WHO ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU IN FEAR. they're not infected zombies trying to kill you, or even the cartoony idiots in GTA. It's realistic as hell, bloody as hell, and disturbing as hell. If you've seen it and weren't even a little disturbed, good for you. I'm putting my $ toward Uncharted 2 or some other game that doesn't involve killing civilians.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for attempting to clarify. I'd suggest that being disturbed by that level is precisely the effect IW is going for, but regardless: if you're looking for a replacement shooter, allow me to recommend Borderlands. I got a little sidetracked by Tekken, but I've been enjoying it quite a bit (though I'm a notorious loot-whore).
 
[quote name='chrisnsally'] If you've seen it and weren't even a little disturbed, good for you. I'm putting my $ toward Uncharted 2 or some other game that doesn't involve killing civilians.[/QUOTE]

That's fine and dandy, but then why start a thread? No one care's if you're buying it or not. Only reason to post it with boycott in the title is to encourage others to do the same. Which you just said you didn't care about apparently.

Also, most people will find it at least a little disturbing--but that's not cause to not play it. i.e. a lot of great movies are ones that are disturbing. A main function of any type of art is to make it's users feel something--and disturbing them is a valid emotion to go for.
 
[quote name='chrisnsally']sorry - allow me to clarify the obvious - it's killing unarmed civilians WHO ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU IN FEAR. they're not infected zombies trying to kill you, or even the cartoony idiots in GTA. It's realistic as hell, bloody as hell, and disturbing as hell. If you've seen it and weren't even a little disturbed, good for you. I'm putting my $ toward Uncharted 2 or some other game that doesn't involve killing civilians.[/QUOTE]

Having played Uncharted 2, I can tell you that you do kill civilians in that game as well. Not everyone you shoot is a terrorist, they are just hired-guns. Sometimes, you shoot first.. and you end up killing an innocent civilian. They surely have fake lives to live, fake wives, fake families to go home to, and are just there to collect a fake paycheck to help support their fake families. Have you ever considered that when shooting anyone in any type of game? I bet not.

You also have to climb through the environment constantly. With every jump, and every shimmy, you are devastating that poor, defenseless environment. The environment can't hurt you back, but you certainly hurt it. There is no reason for this environmental travesty to be shown, it's like a slap in the face to the real Earth, and it's real Earth feelings. How would you feel if you had someone climbing or shimmying across you? How would you feel if you had someone constantly stepping on you, or shooting bullets that ricochet into you on a daily basis, or those grenades or propane tanks that explode and leave their mark on that poor defenseless land? It was just too much at one point, I could really feel for all of those pixels; and you should too, by boycotting Uncharted 2.
 
I didn't know Glenn Beck had some many alt. accounts on CAG.
 
[quote name='chrisnsally']sorry - allow me to clarify the obvious - it's killing unarmed civilians WHO ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM YOU IN FEAR. they're not infected zombies trying to kill you, or even the cartoony idiots in GTA. It's realistic as hell, bloody as hell, and disturbing as hell. If you've seen it and weren't even a little disturbed, good for you. I'm putting my $ toward Uncharted 2 or some other game that doesn't involve killing civilians.[/QUOTE]
So if they're cartoony idiot civilians, it's a-ok to shoot them? You're digging yourself in a hole here. I don't know if anyone else caught that.

GTA4 are not cartoony imho. The physics and detail make them look quite real. That's what rockstar was aiming for.
Maybe the older games, yeah, but the principle still stands regardless of if they look fake or cartooish, they're still civilians...

You do have a strange sense of morals, which was my first thought. :lol:

And for the record, the civilians DO run from you screaming when you pull out a gun, attack them, shoot at them, etc unless they are in a gang or something, then they usually shoot/fight back in defense.

The L4D example was shitty whoever mentioned that...

For the record though, you're a good trader and cool dude, so I'm not calling you out or anything, if you want to boycott it, go for it my friend. Reason or stupid reason aside, it's your choice, and your choice alone. But when you put it on a public forum, especially a gaming/trade site, you're of course going to have many views and arguments. :bouncy: You knew that already though.
 
OP, I agree with you, it seems pretty disturbing. However, I thought that the story and the way they dealt with some pretty sensitive subjects in Modern Warfare 1 were very well done, and I thought they made the game better.

With that said, I'm keeping my preorder because I think Infinity Ward are some of the best game devs around, and I'm assuming that this makes sense in context of the game.

Also I want to shoot me some dudes online.
 
[quote name='chrisnsally']Flame away, but after watching the recently leaked footage of the player gunning down civilians as an undercover terrorist, I can't support the company. If you haven't seen it, it's REALLY disturbing.

Yes, I understand there is violence in games - I enjoy many of them. Yes, I understand there are worse things in movies. But I don't have to support them.

I was really looking forward to playing it, too. :bomb:[/QUOTE]

I understand your feelings. Still we are not sure it is a part of the game yet. If it is then I have a problem. The problem I have and what makes this different than any other game imho that allows you to kill civillians, is that in the other games it is not a requirement to beat the game. I NEVER play GTA just running around killing peds. How insanely dull.

Saying that "Postal" allows you to kill civillians as in a comparision to this is just idiotic. The games name is Postal and it is a rare title that few people have actually played. The entire premise is killing civillians. Duh. Why don't we drag up Death Camp while we are at lame, ridiculous, references that have no place in this discussion.

Killing innocent people makes this less of a game and more of a virtual experience that I do not want to take part in. IW does aim for realism ... to a fault. Then everyone else says "It's just a game" when you point out how unrealistic this or that is. Stop talking out of both sides of your mouths.

Thanks
 
[quote name='K_Dense']I understand your feelings. Still we are not sure it is a part of the game yet. If it is then I have a problem. The problem I have and what makes this different than any other game imho that allows you to kill civillians, is that in the other games it is not a requirement to beat the game. I NEVER play GTA just running around killing peds. How insanely dull.

Saying that "Postal" allows you to kill civillians as in a comparision to this is just idiotic. The games name is Postal and it is a rare title that few people have actually played. The entire premise is killing civillians. Duh. Why don't we drag up Death Camp while we are at lame, ridiculous, references that have no place in this discussion.

Killing innocent people makes this less of a game and more of a virtual experience that I do not want to take part in. IW does aim for realism ... to a fault. Then everyone else says "It's just a game" when you point out how unrealistic this or that is. Stop talking out of both sides of your mouths.

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Ahem.

[quote name='DarkSageRK']Looks like you can skip it, so you and your friends can stop being sensationalist pussies now.

http://kotaku.com/5392161/modern-warfare-2-features-skippable-scene-of-atrocities[/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']Oh great this is gonna give another rise to a Jack Thompson wannabe or our friend Jewseph Lieberman.[/QUOTE]

Hey! I'm a jew, and I both like the look of this game and hate Lieberman. codMW2 is going to be great, and this scene looks like it is going to do what was intended: freak you out. I just hope it doesn't create too much controversy.
 
1. "Leak" scandalous gameplay video.
2. Get free advertising campaign from media shitstorm.
3. ??????
4. Profit.


Also, boycott MW2! The PC version doesn't support dedicated servers. Stay true to your roots IW you assholes!! rarwrawrawwaawrwar
 
[quote name='Phokis']Hey! I'm a jew, and I both like the look of this game and hate Lieberman. codMW2 is going to be great, and this scene looks like it is going to do what was intended: freak you out. I just hope it doesn't create too much controversy.[/QUOTE]

Well that's why I'm worried about Joseph he wanted GTA out and this is just gonna push people like that even more. I have nothing against Jews It's just what everyone around here in CT calls him. The guy keeps getting re-elected no matter what sadly.
 
I'm not trying to convince anyone, just sharing my opinion. I've been playing video games since Atari 2600, and have enjoyed a nice variety of them - violent or not. I'm just choosing not to support a game company that thinks it's okay to have the player gunning down innocent people in an ultra-realistic fashion.

I'd hoped for a semi-intelligent discussion/debate, and there has been some really good posts in here, but they're surrounded by the one-off insults of 12 year-olds.

Besides, you don't know me. Maybe my wife was killed in a train bombing in Madrid. Or maybe my children were taken from me in a car bombing in Pakistan. At which point, I would hope, you'd understand where I was coming from.

Feel free to continue the discussion. I'm signing off.
 
I find the OP incredibly offensive. So if it weren't for you playing as a terrorist gunning down civilians, you'd be just fine with a game that glorifies war and violence? Disgusting.
 
Hey. You give some you take some.

The Internet is serious business. Infinity Ward is giving you the option to skip the scene so there isn't much more to throw out there. IW is just trying to add some realism to this game - terrorists have dreams of doing that shit everyday I'd imagine. Luckily it hasn't happened in such fashion yet.
 
Wait a sec, they released footage of COD6? Since when? I thought that wasn't due out til at least 2012!!!

Oh, that's right, the game you're after is Modern Warfare 2. A little hint, at least know the name of what you're fake outraged at, before posting a thread about it. Makes ya look like a little less of a jackass.
 
[quote name='Monsta Mack']IW is just trying to add some realism to this game - terrorists have dreams of doing that shit everyday I'd imagine. Luckily it hasn't happened in such fashion yet.[/QUOTE]

...you mean hasn't happened yet, in America I presume?
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']1. "Leak" scandalous gameplay video.
2. Get free advertising campaign from media shitstorm.
3. ??????
4. Profit.


Also, boycott MW2! The PC version doesn't support dedicated servers. Stay true to your roots IW you assholes!! rarwrawrawwaawrwar[/QUOTE]

lol
 
and I suppose its alright killing all the "bad guys" in the game cuz they dont have kids and family either so ya totally boycott it duuude. WHINE MORE BICH
 
[quote name='jd_james_427']Wait a sec, they released footage of COD6? Since when? I thought that wasn't due out til at least 2012!!!

Oh, that's right, the game you're after is Modern Warfare 2. A little hint, at least know the name of what you're fake outraged at, before posting a thread about it. Makes ya look like a little less of a jackass.[/QUOTE]

Of all things....

It's Call of Duty 6, after Call of Duty 5 (World at War), which came after Call of Duty 4. Just because they decided to actually get creative with the names doesn't really matter.
 
Geez, I've been going on crazed killing sprees in games that allow it since Ultima IV. Sometimes it's fun just to go ballistic and do what you're not supposed to in a game. I recall being highly amused in another Ultima (VI) because the bodies stuck around and built a very macabre room full of my victims in my screw around save file.

Hell didn't you have to murder children in Wasteland to get the Red Ryder BB rifle?

I've still somehow managed to keep my real life murder count at 0 and I'm even an ex postal-worker. ;)
 
[quote name='chrisnsally']Flame away, but after watching the recently leaked footage of the player gunning down civilians as an undercover terrorist, I can't support the company. If you haven't seen it, it's REALLY disturbing.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='chrisnsally']I'd hoped for a semi-intelligent discussion/debate, and there has been some really good posts in here, but they're surrounded by the one-off insults of 12 year-olds.
...
Feel free to continue the discussion. I'm signing off.[/QUOTE]

You know - when I read the first two words of your original post, I can't help but think this was less about actually being offended and more about a Chris Nally superiority trip. Nancy Grace would be proud.
 
[quote name='camoor']You know - when I read the first two words of your original post, I can't help but think this was less about actually being offended and more about a Chris Nally superiority trip. Nancy Grace would be proud.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Other than the name since his user name is Chris n Sally not Chris Nally. :D
 
Anyone else pissed off that yet another "HOLY SHIIIIT did that really just motherfucking happen" moment got spoiled. I'm trying my damnedest to keep my media lockout of this game... guess I have to stay away from CAG too. haha
 
[quote name='crowbb']Hell didn't you have to murder children in Wasteland to get the Red Ryder BB rifle?[/QUOTE]

Dude are you seriously referencing a game from 1988?!?! 1/2 the people reading this thread weren't even alive when that came out.
 
Just when you thought MW2 couldn't get any more awesome.

Honestly, there's been lots of fucked up shit in video games before, so this is nothing new. If it was something extremely tasteless like slaughtering concentration camp prisoners as a Nazi or flying a sim-plane into the World Trade Center, then by all means throw up your arms, but from what I understand it's a completely fictionalized event which is supposed to get you good and mad for when you start playing as the opposing forces.
 
Meh. I killed random people in GTA4 and I will do the same in MW2. I at least have faith Infinity Ward will put a good story on why you're doing it.
 
Was this a troll? The poster didn't really seem into it.
Good for a topic starter I guess. This is a non-issue imo, what bothers me is when they disable killing civilians. The change in game-play is very stark and pulls you out of whatever environment the developer was aiming to pull you into. Bleh.
cagus.smile.jpg
 
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