CAGcast #106: Costume Ballers

[quote name='Wombat']I have over 100 years of school based history to back my theory, show me where it is written that 5 is average on a 10 point scale. Also regardless of 1ups power in the industry I don't think it is up to them to decide that their average score is different than 90% of thier associates. Its a ploy for them to get more press. OMG 1up gave "game x" a 5!!!!
I want answers, I want the truth.[/QUOTE]




People love to get technical. You were right during the show and you're still right NOW. If we were about to jump out of an airplane and we told people that a parachute received a rating of 5 out of 10 (in terms of its quality) I'm pretty sure that people would automatically realize then that its not such a good shute; and that its below avg. Well getting even more technical.. how exactly are we deciding that a C (75%) is average, with all these BS games, I'm sure the average score (of all games ever created) probably is D(60%), or F(50%).


Games are like relationships... if you can only please your woman 5 out of 10 times, then you're going in the bargin bin.... similar to Ninjabread Man, who probably got a score of 5 out of 10, maybe 6 who knows.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Cheapy and Wombat discuss the significance of HD movie formats and the console wars, new releases, industry news, your CAGbag questions, and how to make your love life sizzle!

Win Tickets to Wizard World LA!
Win Rez HD (Xbox 360) From UGO and the CAGcast!


http://media.libsyn.com/media/cheapyd/cagcast106.mp3
Download - 100 minutes, 46MB
[digg]http://digg.com/podcasts/CAGcast[/digg]
Past CAGcasts

Show Linkage/Notes (click the button below to expand):
Intro: Tecmo Bowl

5 broken headphones, 1 iPod
Forum software upgrade complete (vBulletin 3.6.8)

CAG's "Donate Games to the Troops in Iraq" Campaign
CAGcast Theme song entries available for download

CAG Foreplay #31: Grappling Hooks & Hamsters (2/6/08)

Mario Kart Wii Gets 32 Courses, Mii Integration
Wii-motes, We Don’t Need No Stinkin’ Wii-motes
Saving Ryan’s Privates - Boom Blox Trailer
Band Mashups press release
Everyone's Nintendo Channel U.S. Bound Soon

Twisted Metal (ps3)
PlayStation Store Update: Lost Planet Finds PSN
Resistance 2: the single-player campaign is basically finished
SCEA: No plans for silver PS3 in North America
HDTV's in American Households

[URL="http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/07/burnout-paradise-dlc-explained/"]Burnout Paradise DLC explained
Xbox 360 HD DVD player price drops again[/URL]
First Mass Effect DLC coming out next month


Target / CC / Best Buy Video Game Prices: February 10 - February 16, 2008

Ziff Davis changes to Letter grading review system - CAG POLL
Gerstmann-gate Round… I Lost Count
Red Faction 3 coming to Xbox 360, PS3, PC

CAGbag
http://www.thylus.com/

Digg the CAGcast
Digg CAG Foreplay
MySpace
CheapyD's Youtube Videos (Subscribe)
CheapyD's Flickr Page (Subscribe)

Outro: Magnavox

Bonus picture:
[/QUOTE]



Cheapy you look like Little Mac all grown up.. (CAG sponsored... of course)
 
The bit about Tai celebrating the superbowl with an explosive shit & stuff about Mrs. Wombat as Wonder Woman had me bust out laughing at work. People turned around to see if something was wrong with me.

I'm sure everyone wants to let the biased thing die, but my take on it is that when people ask me which system i prefer, i just tell them 'for great games, 360, as an overall media device, PS3'. I've got nothing against the PS3 games. I love all of the PS3 games i own. The sad thing is that i can count that number of great games for the PS3 on one hand.

I think Cheapy needs to say "Big Ass Chains" at least 3 times in each episode.
 
I wholeheartedly disagree with your take on the "hardcore" definition in this weeks Cagcast. I have a lustful distain for the so-called "hardcore" and the following is an open letter to you all (cheapy, wombat, and most over 30 excluded):

Hardcore Gamer (n.) 1. A videogame player characterized by the hyperbolic, proselytizing reverence he displays for a videogame system or game. 2. (n) title of aspiration, or badge of honor giving [hardcore gamer] immediate, self-proclaimed, expert status of the videogame industry as a whole. 3. (n.) a derogatory term ascribed to a videogame player who spends more time playing videogames than making a living, unless he makes his living playing said games. Then he is more commonly known as a game "journalist." (syn: Bum)

Having played videogames for over 30 years, I've watched the industry come, grow, disappear, be re-birthed, and evolved. You "Hardcores" out there are the minority and are simply a subset of all videogame players. Hardcores believe they are the reason for the existence of videogame companies and producers, and that every game made must cater to their own ideas of what make good videogames. They represent the reason the game industry keeps putting out the same FPS, RPG and Madden iterations every year. New ideas scare them because it's beyond their small sphere of existence. MOTS may be good for a year or two, for a sequel or two, but not for a generation or two.

We've seen it all before and videogames can't evolve into anything better as long as you morons keep bitching about how the lame-ass casuals are ruining your market. The casuals FUND your market. You simply can't make enough money while smoking pot and playing videogames all day to fund an industry. Yeah, you save a lot of money living with your parents to buy a PS3, but there simply aren't enough of you. That's why you need us. That's what WE do as casual gamers. We provide the scale of economies and put the mass in "mass market" to make your systems and games affordable. Now play another mario waggle game and shut the hell up already - Final Tensai Nocturne Dragoon Anthology:XIII - is still coming out next year.
 
Jeez Cheapy you dont have to be so blatant with your 360 fanboyism. Just because Microsoft doesnt make country music doesnt mean you have to go and bash it like you did. This was below the belt and unforgivable IMO.
 
CheapyD & Wombat,

Great show again! I loved that Tecmo Bowl song!

I have a question for both you guys. Have you guys ever dedicated 100% of yourselves to a fighting game? For example, memorizing every single characters moves in a game like Tekken, or mastering the combo system of Killer Instinct?

Also, what's your greatest accomplishment in a fighting game? And if achievements were around in those days, how many points do you think it'd be worth?

thanks again, keep up the great work!
 
[quote name='Jackal888']Can't anyone read without inference? The number 5 is the mean in the set of 1-10. So using a scale of 1-10 , 5 is the average. That is a fact. I am not assuming anything.[/quote]

There is no inference on my part. Your statement is almost true if you have 10 games and there is 1 game that receives a 1, 1 game receives a 2, 1 game receives a 3 and so on, then an average score would be 5.5.

Now, go look at any review site that grades on the 10 or 100 point scale and add up their review scores and divide by the number of games scored. Tell me when you find one where the average is between 5 and 6. Going to Metacritic can illustrate it nicely when you sort systems by score. Look at how many games are above 55 and how many are below it. It's not even close to being equal. That doesn't even take into account the fact that most of those below are nowhere a similar number of 10s and 90s. It is that fact that makes an average game 75ish.

None of this is to say that you couldn't start your own review system where an average game is 50.


[quote name='Jackal888']There were games that received less than 5, these games were below average.Maybe it is a statement that games in general are made well that you did not see a lot of below average games.[/quote]

You can't really have more above average games than below average games because that just means the average has moved up.
 
I wonder what would happen if Wombat went to an anime/comic convention. He would have a hard on the entire day because of chicks like this:

385661487_6e040f9cde.jpg
354494795_9061f69c12.jpg

More costumes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/41062380@N00/410187215/in/photostream/

Also Shipwreck's mission in May is to find said Ms. Wombat Costumes.
 
This is a little late but the forums where down when I thought about it. You've talked about your "problems" with flushing sometimes. Do you know about the "courtesy flush"? Perhaps flushing once maybe twice while you are still in the middle of your"deposit" it'll help with that problem.



Also your picture of CAG hat and gloves made me laugh.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']Remember when we were wondering how to access that Mass Effect DLC?
Accessing Mass Effect DLC Is Kind Of A Pain[/quote]

Well, the simple answer would be for them to also release a new variety of New Game +, which starts you off right at the point where you get the ship, so you don't have to redo that whole part. Surely someone in a board room somewhere down there has had this thought cross their minds, yes?
 
If Wombat wants to know what it sounds like to be a dick, he can listen to himself saying that people who have an Xbox360 without a harddrive don't deserve to have one.

My 11 year old nephew just saved his Christmas money and has been doing odd jobs to earn enough money to buy himself a 360 and the only thing he can afford so far is the one without the harddrive.

It's comments like that one that make me hesitant to encourage the young kids in my life to be a part of the gaming community. He's not mean spirited and he doesn't think he's cool by saying flippant things to pretend to be cool, and I don't want him to start.

No, I'm not jealous of Wombat. No, I'm not new to listening to the CagCast. No, I'm not a 20-30 something dude obsessed with gaming and/or internet jabber. No, I'm not a fan'boy', geek, or forum troll. I'm a 40 year old chick, married to a serious gamer/web dude.

I'm not a fan of Wombat. I always point out his snotty attitude from each CagCast. My husband always defends him... the discussion continues.

By the way, how can you seriously argue that 5 out of 10 os not average?
 
[quote name='Cidtalk']If Wombat wants to know what it sounds like to be a dick, he can listen to himself saying that people who have an Xbox360 without a harddrive don't deserve to have one.

My 11 year old nephew just saved his Christmas money and has been doing odd jobs to earn enough money to buy himself a 360 and the only thing he can afford so far is the one without the harddrive.

It's comments like that one that make me hesitant to encourage the young kids in my life to be a part of the gaming community. He's not mean spirited and he doesn't think he's cool by saying flippant things to pretend to be cool, and I don't want him to start.

No, I'm not jealous of Wombat. No, I'm not new to listening to the CagCast. No, I'm not a 20-30 something dude obsessed with gaming and/or internet jabber. No, I'm not a fan'boy', geek, or forum troll. I'm a 40 year old chick, married to a serious gamer/web dude.

I'm not a fan of Wombat. I always point out his snotty attitude from each CagCast. My husband always defends him... the discussion continues.

By the way, how can you seriously argue that 5 out of 10 os not average?[/quote]

Ok, 5 out of 10 is average if you are talking about back when you were in 2nd grade learning basic math skills.

When in the context of video games, a 5 score is NOT average. Take a look on a website for game scores. Metacritic, Gamerankings, any other website you would like to look at, other than www.averagevideogamesscoreoffive.com. Try not to take words literal/out of context, and then try to base a point on it. kthxbye
 
There's a lot to be said about 2nd grade math.

If I say something is 5 out of 10, it's average, middle of the road, stuck between the best and the worst.
 
Actually, Cheapy. It's very much possible that this rumored review site from Jeff Gerstmann could be a huge rival to GameSpot in due time. You have to remember that GameSpot started as a small site, granted in 1996 but these same guys were employees since then and have developed quite a large and loyal fan base. I know I personally went to GameSpot over 1UP/IGN and all the other sites just to read their opinions on games.

I'm not the only one, It'd be the same thing if you were fired from CAG (bare with me) and started a new CAGcast. Many of us would leave here and go there because we value your opinions rather than those of the many other podcast personalities available. That's the hook!

Also, not trying to devalue Wombat or anything, but lets face it you're the more popular one on the show even though Wombat is superior.
 
I just started the show and I was taking a sip of coffee and nearly spit it out because Wombat saying about living and in a house and always having something to do and Cheapy says about handing out the sex offender flyers. :rofl:
 
Good show, cheapy stop beating that dead horse (ur ps3 hate) people will think what they want to think. I for one think u get off on "downing" Sony....

But who cares really, I'm here for wombat. He adds level gaming to the podcast, he see both good and bad of each system.
 
Why does the man have to keep defending himself? He's explained quite clearly (numerous times) that right now due to the lack of games and/or the quality of games available, that the Wii and PS3 aren't for him. He doesn't hate either console though.
 
[quote name='Cidtalk']If Wombat wants to know what it sounds like to be a dick, he can listen to himself saying that people who have an Xbox360 without a harddrive don't deserve to have one.

My 11 year old nephew just saved his Christmas money and has been doing odd jobs to earn enough money to buy himself a 360 and the only thing he can afford so far is the one without the harddrive.
[/QUOTE]

My comments are not geared towards eleven year olds, they are geared to our majority listener. If you are 20+ and that inclueds 40 year old married women, then yes you should not buy a 360 without a harddrive. If it comes down to waiting an extra month or two to save and get the console with the harddrive, you should wait. I don't think I am being smug or a dick, I just pointing out the direction developers are heading, the hard drive will be needed more and more in future. You are better off saving money now then spending more to buy one separately.

Also my point about about the average thing was more about how Gamestop said 5 was average and now they say C is average. This in effect changes all thier old game reviews with a "5" to somewhere beween a 7.1 to a 7.5. Other people in this thread have pointed why 5 isnt avergae better than me also.
 
Wombat, my reaction to the hard drive requirement was exactly the same as yours-"Good." That part of the show made me crack up.

The simple fact is that the vast majority of 360 owners have hard drives, and if game developers could make a better game by utilizing the hard drive, I don't want them to make it crappier so that ~20 people will be able to play it.

When it comes to kids saving up-if they make too many games requiring a hard drive, kids could always just save up and buy a damn hd, they can be bought on eBay for around the price of a new game.
 
Just commenting on the Format War while I listen to the CAGCast:

Regardless of who wants to say "The PS3 will win!" or "HDDVD is the greater format!", let me tell you something.

I'm a gamer, I've been gaming since I was 6 years old, I'm still in college currently and don't have a lot of money to spare, but despite this (and thanks to CAG), I have an Elite 360 and 16 games that I play on a regular basis, not to mention a strong community of CAG friends online that I play "Hunt the Wombat" with consistently.

That being said, to hear another gamer say that a certain console will "win" this generation because of MOVIES of all things, is flat out blasphemous to me.

So HDDVD is dying, people prefer Blu Ray, that's great, but why should GAMERS gives a shit? Unless Underworld 2's sex scene has some form of gaming interactivity, I can't say I care that much about movies on my gaming console.

I bought a 360 because I wanted to play GAMES (God forbid). At the time of purchase, it held a stronger library and online community, which is what appealed to me. I still play it constantly, and have thoroughly enjoyed each of the games I have in my collections.

So to hear another gamer praise movies as a console's biggest selling point to me seems like they don't truly want to address the issue (you know what issue I'm talking about).
You aren't happy with your decision.
That's your perogative, if you're enjoying your console, enjoy your console, and leave the rest of us to enjoy ours.

I will be honest though, the only thing at this point that will draw me into seriously considering a PS3 purchase is full exclusivity (for eternity) on either Kingdom Hearts III or a complete remake of Final Fantasy VII (which, by the way, my first FFVII experience was on the PC version, which I still own.)

~HotShotX
 
Just listened to the podcast today. You guys were talking about the 1UP Network changing their scoring system and I applaud 1UP for it. It sticks it to the companies that complain about their Metacritic score. 1UP can say that isn't their problem what number Metacritic arbitrarily puts on the site. Wombat, I think was equating the letter grade to numbers but that's way off-base. Instead of equating letters to number scores, it's as easy as saying "Great game", "good game", "average or only-for-genre-lovers, and "pile of shit". With a probably a '+' or '-' for either more or less.
 
Enjoyed the show, guys. :)

I thought for sure when Cheapy was talking about taking Tai out for a walk and the kids with the snowballs that the kids ran away, because they were afraid to throw snowballs near the ginormous white guy.

I too am glad that games like Mario Kart are going to allow Wavebird control. There are a few games I like the Wiimote for, but even on Wii Play, the fussiness of the controller annoys me. Then again, maybe I don't have it calibrated correctly, because everybody who plays with my 2nd controller seems to think it's worse than controller 1 and seems to fly off the screen too easily. Then again, I'm not a fan of games that force control with the stylus for the DS, either (*cough* Phantom Hourglass *cough*).

And, by the by, that "Whoomp there it is" country-version was pretty horrendous. But Wombat's impersonation made me bust out laughing, though it was kind of disturbing..


;)

/tk
 
Wombat,

I know maybe you're embarrassed about it (or you were joking) but the wife wearing a wonder woman outfit sounds like the hottest thing ever!
 
[quote name='zerowing']Yeah I do, lol.

also, what up

[/QUOTE]


welcome to "Missed the Point-ville" population you. We never argued that EGM said 5 was average prior to the new letter system. The point was that with the new letter system with C being average all the past review scores now change. Making all thier 5's somewhere between 7.1-7.5 , thus appeasing the metacritics out there. So yes they said 5 was average last month, but now C is average, so a 5 score is not average anymore for any Ziff Davis Publication. I find that interesting.
 
Buy, rent or avoid is my scoring system. Ultimately that's the decision you're making anyway. That's the recommendation you give to your friends.
 
I'm puzzled by the examples of 'hardcore' games given by CheapyD and Wombat - Madden, Call of Duty 4, Mario Galaxy - they're only 3 of the best-selling titles of 2007. I guess Halo should be considered niche too! Sure, hardcore gamers play them because they're the best of the best, but the hardcore gamer is the one who's also going to buy less well-known games like Odin Sphere or Rez HD.

Also, regarding reviews: I'd much prefer a system that did away with letter grades or numbers altogether. A game is not going to get a D or F nowadays unless it's fundamentally broken or obvious Wii or DS cartoon character/girl game cash-ins. This site's success is proof that the real question about games is the cost-benefit since so many more games are produced than one person could reasonably buy or have time to play.

I'd like to see a website or magazine go with 4 designations: (1) worth buying at full retail price; (2) wait for a sale or greatest hits version; (3) rental only; (4) don't even bother.
 
[quote name='Wombat']welcome to "Missed the Point-ville" population you. We never argued that EGM said 5 was average prior to the new letter system. The point was that with the new letter system with C being average all the past review scores now change. Making all thier 5's somewhere between 7.1-7.5 , thus appeasing the metacritics out there. So yes they said 5 was average last month, but now C is average, so a 5 score is not average anymore for any Ziff Davis Publication. I find that interesting.[/quote]
I haven't seen them state anywhere that the new scale is somehow retroactively applicable to reviews of previous games. I'm sure it's not.
 
[quote name='mik']I haven't seen them state anywhere that the new scale is somehow retroactively applicable to reviews of previous games. I'm sure it's not.[/QUOTE]

From kotaku:

"The changes will take place during March on 1UP, in the April issue of EGM and the April/May issue of GFW. Best part? 1UP will be trawling through their reviews archives and updating the scores for every game they've ever reviewed, replacing the numerical value with a letter."

http://kotaku.com/353607/1up-changes-scoring-policy-letters-to-replace-numbers
 
And Cheapy, the downloading of HD discs won't take off in a while in america. First off, broadband connections are still WAY too slow. 2nd off, I despise that as there is no lossless audio and the video is ultra-compressed which effects play quality a HUGE amount.
 
Oh is that what you're complaining about then?

I don't give a two hoots about that, scores mean nothing to me so I will take back what I said, all 1003 words of it.
 
I think it all comes down to the fact that people SHOULD stop reading the score and SHOULD start reading the review itself, but that will never happen. I go to Metacritic anytime I'm curious about a game, and let's face it, anything under a 70 isn't getting purchased unless I'm a rabid fan of it (ie: Star Trek games, etc), and under an 80 will depend on price and interest.

Overall a good show guys, seemed to be a lot more gaming talk than usual, but it worked well, as there was a lot to discuss. I personally bought Poker Smash after playing the demo, and it's well worth it, though the achievements are nearly impossible.
 
The show threads are a mess these days. I can put up with the fanboy shit, but is it necessary to argue about a frikkin' review scale?

Great show anyways
 
[quote name='StinkyCheese']The show threads are a mess these days. I can put up with the fanboy shit, but is it necessary to argue about a frikkin' review scale?

Great show anyways[/quote]

I just hope that the first 20 minutes of the next Cagcast is NOT spent sorting this Review Scale shit out.

Anyways, I get GFW magazine, and even though they gave Blacksite: Area 51 a (4/10) I still took the time to read the entire review to understand why that game would get such a low score. To my surprise, after reading the review and renting the game, it turns out that Blacksite is actually a pretty decent shooter. It's just that the reviewer for GFW had a certain political agenda against the game's underlining message.
 
[quote name='Jackal888']Can't anyone read without inference? The number 5 is the mean in the set of 1-10. So using a scale of 1-10 , 5 is the average. That is a fact. I am not assuming anything.

There were games that received less than 5, these games were below average.Maybe it is a statement that games in general are made well that you did not see a lot of below average games.[/QUOTE]
You're thinking of math, not a ratings/grade system. In the rating and grading world 5 (or 50) and below on a 10 (or 100) point scale is FAILING. You can't compare math's definition of median with a rating median.

7.5 is an average or mediocre score, not 5.
[quote name='trip1eX']Buy, rent or avoid is my scoring system. Ultimately that's the decision you're making anyway. That's the recommendation you give to your friends.[/QUOTE]
Man, I totally agree. I think that there should be a rating website that rates the game with "Rent," "Borrow," "Buy," and "Avoid At All Costs" tags instead of the numbering system. As we can see, some people get confused.
 
Hi guys. My comments on your latest great show:

* Cheapy: could it be possible that the 1-week growth germs had something to do with your hardware breaking up?
* As a TV show on MTV commented last week, Nintendo still lacks games (and a control) that you could sit on and play continuously, like COD4, Halo, or Mass Effect (I can't imagine how your arms would be after playing Frontlines with the Wii controls for 2+ hours)
* Right on target both of you on the additional content (and multiplayer environment) on the PS3 vs. 360. SOrry, Sony, but you have a loooooooooooong road to walk (and unfortunately, no Blue-Ray supremacy is going to change that)
* Cheapy, too late on your comment on keeping the show family-wise: you gave us more links for the adult-based public (and more headaches for us parents for keeping our youth internet experience safe!)
* And also, Cheapy, you scored more points at the end of the show with Mrs. Wombat. Don't know if she does have the WW costume, but you wouldn't like to be around Godzilla right at your side after the show ended

Take care Wombat, as I know everyone here can tell you, we love you (but sorry, 7.5 is not average, 5 IS AVERAGE).
 
Review scores are BS anyways, just write a couple paragraphs about the pros and cons of the game... write about important features... and write about the concept of the game. Don't give into the A.D.D. society of today.
 
Great show guys...No comic talk though to my dismay.

Nice job taking showers on Friday cheapy to be all fresh and clean clean for the weekend.

Why isn't that these post show threads are turning into Cheapy said X and he's wrong bc Y or Wombat is a ahole b/c he said Z but what about everyone else that doesn't have a hard drive.

Take a chill pill everyone...its a show...they do it in jest....if you get offended by the show then...turn it off.
 
[quote name='Wombat']welcome to "Missed the Point-ville" population you. We never argued that EGM said 5 was average prior to the new letter system. The point was that with the new letter system with C being average all the past review scores now change. Making all thier 5's somewhere between 7.1-7.5 , thus appeasing the metacritics out there. So yes they said 5 was average last month, but now C is average, so a 5 score is not average anymore for any Ziff Davis Publication. I find that interesting.[/quote]
Why... on a 1-10 scale 5 is average. The thing is now they are switching to a school grade system in which a 70 is average. Its not an admission of being wrong because they were not wrong.

Also, Cheapy... duck butter is bad, showering is good:p
 
[quote name='level1online']I just hope that the first 20 minutes of the next Cagcast is NOT spent sorting this Review Scale shit out.[/quote]

agreed. *rolls eyes*

Anyways, I get GFW magazine, and even though they gave Blacksite: Area 51 a (4/10) I still took the time to read the entire review to understand why that game would get such a low score. To my surprise, after reading the review and renting the game, it turns out that Blacksite is actually a pretty decent shooter. It's just that the reviewer for GFW had a certain political agenda against the game's underlining message.
Click to expand...

Hell, I buy ''bad'' games sometimes. It depends on why the game is ''bad''. say a certain attribute to the game is broken. But say you dont give a fuck about that atrribute- you might really like the game. Its terrible that some reviewers use their own opinion and dont think about the readers.
 
I'm not sure if it's the site you guys were referring to, but a new independent video game site that is just starting is http://www.crispygamer.com/. I got directed to it from Kyle Orland's Games for Lunch blog. It's definitely a work in progress, but who knows, could turn out to be something big. I personally only recognize a couple of the people's names, maybe others recognize more.
 
Hey Cheapy and Wombat,

Love the show! Long time listener, 2nd time forum poser. But just wanted to say that I have a baby girl this Sunday 2-10-2008 and being a dad sure is tough. Keep up the good work with the show and hopes everything goes well with your son.

Wombat, I have some friends near your new area. Close to the beach, nice area. Maybe a kid come on the way? (rumor starting)


Gotta go back to the misses and the baby!!:hot:

Hot
 
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