Chinese Workers Poisoned While Making IPhone

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NEXT month, amid the usual hoopla, Apple will unveil its latest gadget: the much-awaited iPhone 4G. Halfway round the globe from the company's California headquarters, a young worker who has spent months in a Chinese hospital wants consumers to look beyond the shiny exterior of such gadgets.
''People should know what we do to create these products and what cost we pay,'' said Bai Bing. She is one of scores of young workers in the city of Suzhou who were poisoned by the chemical n-hexane, which they say was used to clean Apple components including iPhone touch screens.
...
The chemical's potential risks are well known in industry, as are safe exposure limits. But the Wintek manager who decided to switch from alcohol to n-hexane for cleaning - apparently because it dried more quickly - did not assess the dangers. It was used without proper ventilation.
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http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...-making-your-latest-gadget-20100508-ul00.html

So we all know about the dopey kid who lost the next gen IPhone, but how many of you knew about the 62 Chinese workers who were poisoned while manufacturing it?

If you read the article, I also like how Apple defends themselves by stating they have a code of conduct, it's just that most of their manufacturers aren't following it.
 
Companies need to be accounted for this stuff... they shouldn't take the ignorant stand and say it's their fault for not following.

It's really Apple's fault for not demanding this from their suppliers.
 
And as long as companies continue to do business with manufacturers located in countries with lax safety standards this will keep happening. Oh but Chinese labor is so cheap that it's worth the possible PR black eye to continue doing business with them. Whats a few dozen Chinese deaths, you know how much cheaper they make this stuff?

Apple should stop all business with Wintek if they really give a damn.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Apple should stop all business with Wintek if they really give a damn.[/QUOTE]
But they won't. You know it and I know it. As long as the profits keep rolling in, they'll announce they're overseeing some sort of safety program at those factories in China for a couple of months to get rid of the black eye from this. Then it'll be back to business as usual, Chinese deaths be damned.
 
[quote name='xycury']It's really Apple's fault for not demanding this from their suppliers.[/QUOTE]

You could continue that chain and say it's the consumer's fault for not demanding it from the product manufactures.

Have you ever purchased anything with a Made in China label?
 
Lets all buy things only made in America, that's what like half a dozen things? My point is that we basically can't help but buy things made in china or some other barely regulated country. Even things that are "made in America" are made from parts made somewhere else. It's nearly impossible to avoid.

This is the ugly side of capitalism showing it's face, that bottom line watching, lives be damned attitude that most business have. I don't even fault the Chinese really, they're where we were at one time, without standards and regulations we'd be just like them in terms of business practices.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Lets all buy things only made in America, that's what like half a dozen things? My point is that we basically can't help but buy things made in china or some other barely regulated country. [/QUOTE]

Provide me with an example of something you *need* to buy that you cannot purchase from a country that has US-like employee regulations.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Provide me with an example of something you *need* to buy that you cannot purchase from a country that has US-like employee regulations.[/QUOTE]
Yeah lets just through practicality and reality right out the window. Hell, if everyone only bought what they "needed" our economy would collapse.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Yeah lets just through practicality and reality right out the window. Hell, if everyone only bought what they "needed" our economy would collapse.[/QUOTE]

If people only *ate* what they needed... America would be so much better. Let's work on that before the consuming bit.
 
I just want to make this clear, the idea that consumers have all the real power in the market is bullshit. It make be technically true, but not practically. You try getting millions of people around the world to stop buying a company's products.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I just want to make this clear, the idea that consumers have all the real power in the market is bullshit. It make be technically true, but not practically. You try getting millions of people around the world to stop buying a company's products.[/QUOTE]

Give me a few nukes, I'll show you otherwise.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']I just want to make this clear, the idea that consumers have all the real power in the market is bullshit. It make be technically true, but not practically. You try getting millions of people around the world to stop buying a company's products.[/QUOTE]

People choose to make their purchases with little to no regard as to what kind of suffering goes into the product they are purchasing.

It doesn't matter if these people are end-consumers like you and I or large-scale individuals like Steve Jobs.

Does it make one individual any more or less evil than another individual that makes their purchases on the suffering of other humans?
 
[quote name='JolietJake']This is the ugly side of capitalism showing it's face[/QUOTE]

Would be a good point if China was not communist, which in turn makes your remark comical. Or are you suggesting things would be better if all countries' workers were poisoned by chemicals as an end result of shitty government systems, instead of just China's communist regime?

Have you ever considered that if China's gov't were not communist and the people had rights like in America, the people would not be treated like dogs? Start treating the people of China fairly by first eliminating the communism, and soon enough all of a sudden "Made in China" isn't so cheap anymore - thus over time less farming out and more controls to prevent what happened in the OP.
 
Spockirony.jpg
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']As long as the profits keep rolling in, they'll announce they're overseeing some sort of safety program at those factories in China for a couple of months to get rid of the black eye from this.[/QUOTE]

Actually, the saddest thing is - what black eye?

I see 14 news stories about this. If I type in Apple Gizmondo I can easily find over 4000 news stories poring over every detail, plus commentary from every major American news outlet and late night talk show.

Things are way out-of-balance. I want less fanboy, more watchdog.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']This is the ugly side of capitalism showing it's face, that bottom line watching, lives be damned attitude that most business have.[/QUOTE]

I would say it's more the ugly side of laissez-faire, massively deregulated capitalism championed by most libertarians and whatever bmulligan bills himself as.

Capitalism is certainly a flawed system, but it's the best system we've got and at least it works OK as long as you have a referee who can call foul on a bad play.
 
[quote name='camoor']I would say it's more the ugly side of laissez-faire, massively deregulated capitalism championed by most libertarians and whatever bmulligan bills himself as.

Capitalism is certainly a flawed system, but it's the best system we've got and at least it works OK as long as you have a referee who can call foul on a bad play.[/QUOTE]

As long as I can pay the referee off, I'm fine with it.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']People choose to make their purchases with little to no regard as to what kind of suffering goes into the product they are purchasing.

It doesn't matter if these people are end-consumers like you and I or large-scale individuals like Steve Jobs.

Does it make one individual any more or less evil than another individual that makes their purchases on the suffering of other humans?[/QUOTE]

I don't know why, but whenever i read your replies to me it reminds me of Monty Python.

And now for something completely different...

Anyway, I said you can't get millions of people to stop buying a company's products. Now are you going to actually reply to that or not?
 
[quote name='Ruined']Would be a good point if China was not communist, which in turn makes your remark comical. Or are you suggesting things would be better if all countries' workers were poisoned by chemicals as an end result of shitty government systems, instead of just China's communist regime?

Have you ever considered that if China's gov't were not communist and the people had rights like in America, the people would not be treated like dogs? Start treating the people of China fairly by first eliminating the communism, and soon enough all of a sudden "Made in China" isn't so cheap anymore - thus over time less farming out and more controls to prevent what happened in the OP.[/QUOTE]
China is less communist now than it has been since Mao took power, as i said, they are basically where we were back during the start of the industrial revolution. China wants to be capitalist, this is just the beginning, things will get worse before they get better.

I'll this again just because i'm becoming used to repeating myself, take away the regulations, laws, etc. and the U.S. would be no different in regard to worker's rights or safety. Capitalism by nature doesn't care about the welfare of people, we have to force companies to do so, which we have in the U.S., at least to some degree.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Anyway, I said you can't get millions of people to stop buying a company's products. Now are you going to actually reply to that or not?[/QUOTE]

Reply.

So, millions of people don't care that human suffering goes into making, say, the iPhone. Should Steve Jobs be especially vilified because he's one of the millions who don't care?
 
Since it's his product, yes he should. Maybe set an example and it would get people to choose products made by responsible companies. Apple has spent years trying to vilify other companies and make themselves look like the good guys, it's time to step up to the plate and set an example.

There are plenty of products which advertise that they are made in a safe and fair manner, many people are even willing to pay extra for it because of it. Of course Apple can't really afford to do that since their products are already so expensive, paying more to have them built would basically destroy their profit margin.
 
Maybe you (not necessarily /you/, but the general 'you', as in any American buying products built from human suffering) should set an example and choose to get products made by responsible companies. It's time for you to step up and set an example.

If you want to argue scale, then yes, Steve Jobs takes more advantage of human suffering than the typical average American. I guess it's a gold star for the typical American that they don't profit (profit being more than just money) from human suffering quite as much as someone else.

"Yay! You only killed two people! Charlie here killed five. He's bad, but you... well, you could have been worse!"
 
You cant really buy products that dont result in mass human suffering. Its the foundation of capitalism.

For instance, lets say you dont want to support a particular mining or oil company. You dont really have any way of knowing where the trace metals/elements in a product came from. Nobody really documents that stuff, because there is no regulation. Voting with your wallet requires information. And information requires government.

You'd have to revert to a hunter-gatherer situation away from society to even have a chance. If you buy some generic bottle of X at the supermarket, where did that plastic come from? What gasoline did the trucking company that transported it there use? Where did every part of the trucks they use come from?

Are you a vegetarian? Did the packer of that tofu buy a screw for one of their machines that had trace metals from some mining company you dont like?

Theres just no way to know. Corporations arent exactly going to volunteer the intricate details of their business for you to be able to make these kinds of decisions.
 
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[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']You cant really buy products that dont result in mass human suffering. Its the foundation of capitalism.

For instance, lets say you dont want to support a particular mining or oil company. You dont really have any way of knowing where the trace metals/elements in a product came from. Nobody really documents that stuff, because there is no regulation. Voting with your wallet requires information. And information requires government.

You'd have to revert to a hunter-gatherer situation away from society to even have a chance. If you buy some generic bottle of X at the supermarket, where did that plastic come from? What gasoline did the trucking company that transported it there use? Where did every part of the trucks they use come from?

Are you a vegetarian? Did the packer of that tofu buy a screw for one of their machines that had trace metals from some mining company you dont like?

Theres just no way to know. Corporations arent exactly going to volunteer the intricate details of their business for you to be able to make these kinds of decisions.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's quite as hopeless as you surmise.

There is a glimmer of hope in that some companies are starting to offer products coming from natural renewable sources, or fair-trade products, or organic cruelty-free foods. Sometimes demand for these products is cultural, take Western Europe's resistence to frankenfoods, it's why food tastes so much better when you visit. People who buy these products and care about these issues will react if these companies are caught cutting corners. Unforturnately in America this type of concern is rare.

I don't necessarily blame the people because times are tough for many and people are being forced to pinch their pennies. But I do blame corporate executives that condone this behavior - especially a company like Apple. The executives make a tidy profit off of well-designed gadgets but still stoop to cutting corners and running corrupt Chinese sweatshops using shell corporations. Steve Jobs is currently estimated to be worth more then 5.6 billion, how much exploitation is enough Mr. Jobs?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Maybe you (not necessarily /you/, but the general 'you', as in any American buying products built from human suffering) should set an example and choose to get products made by responsible companies. It's time for you to step up and set an example.

If you want to argue scale, then yes, Steve Jobs takes more advantage of human suffering than the typical average American. I guess it's a gold star for the typical American that they don't profit (profit being more than just money) from human suffering quite as much as someone else.

"Yay! You only killed two people! Charlie here killed five. He's bad, but you... well, you could have been worse!"[/QUOTE]
I don't think you quite grasp the scope of this, this isn't an American-centric issue. Apple sells products all ove the world, you think we're the only ones who buy iPods? Like i said before, you get millions of people worldwide to stop buying Apple products. It isn't going to happen

You just hate America so you're focusing on us!;)
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You could say it's the consumer's fault for not demanding it from the product manufactures.[/QUOTE]

^quite possibly the most sense bob has ever made
 
But he's the one who brought the things to market, people buying them are just doing that, buying them. Apple could be a responsible company and take it upon themselves to make sure none of their manufacturers are doing things like this, but there's no profit in that.

It would be easier for a company to take it upon themselves to do the right thing than to try and get millions of people worldwide to stop buying a company's products. The logistics of such a thing are just too enormous.

Cost wouldn't even be an issue, the Apple faithful will buy this shit no matter how much it costs, so Apple doesn't need to worry about their costs rising.

The truth is that in order to make sure your buying habits aren't hurting anyone you'd basically have to drop off the grid and go live in the mountains. We have no idea how most of the stuff we buy is made. The only people who know how it's made are the ones making it, and they're the ones who need to be responsible and make sure no one is being hurt in the manufacturing process.
 
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ignorance plays a role.

I'm sure if you had Company A and B side by side, with similar pricing and features, yet A had a whole disclaimer that they use child labor, unethical manufacturing processes and actually let some of their people die to make Company A's product, many would abandon them to go to Company B's product.

I don't think you can blame solely on customers, because they act in faith that the Companies wouldn't allow this to happen.

Which faith comes from OSHA and a bunch of other consumer/customer/worker protection policies and groups.

Now pushing that to a Global standard... impossible. We would have to write new laws to make that kind of act punishable first and no one wants to touch businesses now.

Free market and capitalism and all...
 
So, basically, you got consumers who get to sit back and say "Well, this ain't my problem." while playing their XBoxes, listening to their iPods and killing little Chinese children in factories. And that's okay.
 
Why is it never the fault of business people? Why is it always the consumers fault?

Why not check both sides instead of this remarkable head-in-sand-ing?
 
[quote name='Strell']Why is it never the fault of business people? Why is it always the consumers fault?

Why not check both sides instead of this remarkable head-in-sand-ing?[/QUOTE]

Great idea! Why didn't somebody think of that before?

[quote name='UncleBob']Everyone who buys an iPhone is just as guilty in this situation as Steve Jobs.[/QUOTE]
 
Hence why I called for irony, given that you work for the largest company of full-of-shit poor grade products ever. You're sitting around high and mighty that you aren't part of the problem, too.

Scale the magnification back further. These issues stem from all kinds of places: corps getting tax breaks for moving offshore, poor QA at all levels, businesses that encourage shoddy corner cutting, etc.

Gosh. I wonder how this all came to be.
 
[quote name='Strell']Hence why I called for irony, given that you work for the largest company of full-of-shit poor grade products ever. You're sitting around high and mighty that you aren't part of the problem, too.[/QUOTE]

Did I say I wasn't part of the problem? Can you provide a quote?
 
[quote name='Strell']So you're quitting tomorrow then, eh? Or do I get more showboating?[/QUOTE]

Why can't I be part of the problem and recognize the fact that I'm part of the problem without changing my ways?

Are you going to give up all your Chinese-manufactured goods tomorrow?
 
I would certainly push for a scenario where its actually practical for people to give up Chinese goods. That is to say, I would vote for elected representatives that are willing to re-enact the trade tariffs that served our country well from the founding of our country until Reagan.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I would certainly push for a scenario where its actually practical for people to give up Chinese goods. That is to say, I would vote for elected representatives that are willing to re-enact the trade tariffs that served our country well from the founding of our country until Reagan.[/QUOTE]

Somebody is going to eat Chinese lead. Either your kids will or you will. Sorry. Free trade stays.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Are you going to give up all your Chinese-manufactured goods tomorrow?[/QUOTE]

Of course not. I believe I covered this in the "who is rich?" thread from a few weeks ago.

But I'm not going to call the consumers some giant cog in the problem machine when there's much greater fish to fry.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Poisoned by toxic fluids? There's an app for that.

I'll be here all night.[/QUOTE]

that's actually really good and funny!

but all joking aside, deniability is fundamental with 3rd party OEM contracting. Sure, there's some accountability, but finger pointing is much easier when you've pre-paid for it.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-planned-nuclear-attack-on-China-in-1969.html

Another thing to blame Nixon for.[/QUOTE]

that's some revelation... WWIII 'might' have been a good thing.

imagine all the different video game themes we 'could' be playing.

so China ends up like Japan. USSR ends up like USA? China makes good and reliable cars and electronics. USSR has other exports besides vodka and snow. hmmm... makes you wonder.
 
[quote name='Strell']But I'm not going to call the consumers some giant cog in the problem machine when there's much greater fish to fry.[/QUOTE]

If Apple or Walmart turned a new leaf today, there would just be some other company that would come in and fill the market for cheap, poisonous goods.

If consumers turned a new leaf, there would be no market to fill.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']

If consumers turned a new leaf, there would be no market to fill.[/QUOTE]

And if ifs and butts were candy and nuts...
 
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