Choosing a new laptop - MacBook Pro vs. Windows options

kodave

kodave

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Alright, so in a month's time I'm going to be purchasing a new laptop. I'm leaning toward a MacBook Pro. Here are the reasons why:


  • I like the sturdiness and build of the casing
  • I like that the laptop stays cool unless you're running a really intensive game/program on it
  • I like that they have great battery life
  • While I'm sure Mac parts break all the time, from my experience with friends and classmates, Macs seem to fail far less than those of us with PC laptops.
  • The weight of the MacBook Pros is acceptable to me. I'm not looking to get super heavy with a laptop.

I've had to replace just about every component on my current 5 year old Toshiba laptop. Keyboard, harddrive, RAM upgrade, screen, battery, AC adapter. The replacement battery was a larger cell battery but turned out to be a POS because its lost its ability to hold a charge, so I have to be plugged into an outlet or my laptop is dead in 10 minutes time. And these weren't issues of misuse or neglect - Google searches for these problems on my laptop model reveals many people had the same problems. Someone even made a website with a picture guide to disassembling the entire laptop so you could fix almost anything in it. The main thing for me was, each problem would pop up separate from the others. I'm sure the cost of fixing this thing could have been put to a new laptop, but that didn't make sense when the damage is spread out over a period of a few years. Additionally my laptop can't actually be placed in my lap because it heats up so bad. I've cleaned the fan out numerous times so that doesn't make it run any cooler. My laptop is like all plastic and the wear and tear on said plastic hasn't been pretty over the years. I don't want to go through any of this shit again if at all possible.

The only thing the Mac offers me in terms of software that I like is Garage Band. I haven't found a simple, lower end program like that for Windows without stepping up to something like Pro Tools. I'm not trying to produce albums on my laptop but I do enjoy recording for fun from time to time as an amateur/hobbyist.

Otherwise, I fumble all over the Mac OS since I've been a Windows guy since 3.1. I stumble over the menu bar situation, the stoplight buttons, the fact that Control key doesn't work the same as on Windows, the Command key, trying to right click the shit out of everything, double clicking things, etc. I've heard from Mac loyalists I will adapt to the new OS within a week and never look back, but I'm skeptical.

The other thing is, I'd like to be able to do a little gaming on the laptop. Nothing hardcore or super serious, but I'd like to be able to play some of the stuff I've grabbed off Steam for pennies - GTA games, Portal, etc. I know Steam is coming out with more Mac-compatible games but I'm sure I'll still need Windows for some of them, which leads me into the whole Boot Camp and dual booting Windows 7 on the MacBook Pro.

Assuming I do that legally, there would be the added cost of getting Windows 7. Then I have the dilemma of where do I want to install Microsoft Office - Windows? Mac? Both? So there are all of those extra costs too.

And I feel like if I get a MBP and just dual boot it into Windows 7 all the time, that makes having a MBP pointless. But again, I'm pretty sold on the reliability and construction of the MBP, and I'd be fine with buying it high end now and not worrying about not really being able to upgrade it later.

The other thing about PC laptops is I hate the big brand names. I refuse to buy anything like an HP/Compaq/Dell/Sony/Toshiba/etc. The only two "brands" I'm even willing to consider are Asus and Acer because I've heard good things about them from my PC laptop using friends and classmates.

If I got a MacBook Pro, I'd be looking at the MacBook Pro 15-inch with the following specs:


  • 2.2GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7 [with 6MB shared L3 cache... Also have the option of 2.3GHz quad-core Intel Core i7 processor with 8MB shared L3 cache.... Not sure if I should forgo the 15 inch screen and go with the 13 inch 2.7GHz model]
  • 8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x4GB
  • 500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
  • Intel HD Graphics 3000 and AMD Radeon HD 6750M with automatic graphics switching / 1GB GDDR5
  • SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
  • MacBook Pro 15-inch Hi-Res Antiglare Widescreen Display [Not sure if this is worth the money vs the regular screen with a lower pixel count or the glossy screen]
  • AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro [Not sure if this is worth the $239]
My total on this package (with educational pricing) comes out to $2,553.00 before California sales tax. If I get this, I plan to buy it during the "Back to School Sale" so I can get a rebate on an iPod touch, so I suppose that cost will be added in too initially.

I'm sure a Windows laptop with similar specs would be priced $500 to $1000 cheaper at least, and I'm well aware of the extra cost of paying for the Apple name.

So, after having gone through all of that - are there any PC/Windows laptops out there that have equivalent specs AND the kind of casing and build and battery life the Mac Book Pro has, probably from the Asus or Acer line of things?

The laptop will primarily be used for web surfing/chatting/etc., but like I said, I would like to do occasional gaming on it and I would like to do occasional music recording on it, and every now and then I fire up Photoshop for very light web graphics stuff for personal use. And most of all I'd like to get as much life out of the laptop as possible to maximize the amount I'd be spending on it now.

Anyone's help is appreciated! Thanks.
 
[quote name='kube00']Wow how long are u plsnning to use the laptop?[/QUOTE]

I will use the new laptop as long as it'll hold out without becoming too non-functional. I'm hoping for a handful of years at a minimum. At any rate if I did get some kind of urge to replace or upgrade I'd like to be able to pass the computer down to someone and still have it be functional.

I'm on 5 years with this POS Toshiba laptop with Windows XP and its going into the trash as soon as I replace it. I wouldn't dare run any games on it (not that it was built for gaming in the first place). It lags trying to play flash browser games. I'm lucky to stream over YouTube in the lowest setting.

Like I said, it'll mainly be for "casual"/business (Microsoft Office stuff) uses with a little bit of gaming and music recording mixed in, if you want to consider those weekend or evening hobbies, which is why I'd rather go more power now, so if I don't replace it for 5 years, its not COMPLETELY dead and outdated (though I realize computers become outdated the second you buy them).

[quote name='mrx001']Alienware M14X maybe?[/QUOTE]

That caught my eye a few weeks ago but I'm skeptical. Alienware seems as gimmicky as Apple, I don't know what kind of influence Dell has over the Alienware brand now, and it looks ugly as sin. Edit: Seems like the price is about $1,000 cheaper than an almost equivalent MBP, but a review said battery life was barely over 4 hours. No way that's going to hold its charge for very long over the years.
 
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Considering what you plan to use it for a MBP sounds overkill but should otherwise be fine. Sounds like you made up your mind already and just want people to justify it for you. I wouldn't go that way because I can't stand OSX's horrible interface. (I have a MBP at home and it's become a very expensive DVD player for that reason) If that's what you want than go for it.
 
No I haven't made up my mind, that's why I'm asking for help and for possible Windows laptop options.

I'm leaning towards MBP because of my past experiences with Windows laptops and with "name brand" computers in general. But I'd be happily convinced to stick with Windows if I could find the right laptop. I'm not wild about the OSX interface either, and the sole thing attractive about it to me is Garage Band and not a single thing else. Like I said in my OP, I'm worried I'm just going to run the freaking thing in Windows 7 the whole time.

I've looked on Amazon and Newegg and read some reviews on CNET but so far I haven't found anything in PC laptops that are comparable to MBPs in terms of casing build and battery life.

That Alienware M14X seems almost on par with the MBP configuration except the reviews I read didn't sell me on the gimmicky alien/car casing design and the poor battery life. The review also said the surface heats up a lot, and its heavy for its size. I don't dig all the external lighting and the car headlight design. That might be fine for some people and in fact I've got an old PC tower case that looks like the front of a BMW with external lights, but I'm past that stage in my life now.

Again, I know the configuration I'm looking to get, whether MBP or Windows based, is "overkill" but I'm looking on keeping this laptop for a long time, and I know gaming and music recording can get rough on mid-range laptops after a few years, my current laptop being a prime example. Whats it matter if I drop $700-1000 on laptop now and have to replace it in a few years once it starts getting outdated versus buying a high-end laptop now and holding it for the same length of time I'd hold two mid-range laptops?

I think I've been pretty clear what I'm looking for in terms of strong casing build and battery life and the sort of specs I'm looking for, so if anyone knows of any Acers, Asuses, or other brands that aren't like HP and Dell, who I don't trust the quality of, then I'd love to see them. I've heard smatterings of good things about Lenovo Thinkpads and I've glanced at a few but don't know much about them or if they're at all what I'm looking for.

So please, if you have some ideas for Windows laptops I'd love to hear them. That's why I created this thread.
 
Just a few tips.

Statistically, Apple is middle of the road when it comes to malfunction rate, many studies such as the one below are available on the subject. Remember, most of the parts in that Macbook (ram, hard drive, optical drive, etc) are mass produced in the same factory in China every other computer is made in.

http://lifehacker.com/#!5524704/laptop+reliability-study-highlights-the-most-sturdy-laptop-makers

If battery life is a concern, an i7 will lower it a noticeable amount. Unless you are doing something extremely processor intensive an i5 should be fine.

Oddly one of the main complaints I hear about MBPs is heat issues, I don't think I've ever used a laptop I'd feel fine putting it on my lap near my junk after it's been on and running for an hour so it's really a moot point. You can mitigate heat a bit with what you put in the laptop. Faster CPU for instance, generates more heat.

For laptops an SSD is your best bet unless you need that entire 500GB of storage on the local drive, you can find 120GB SSDs for less than $200. It will give you better battery life, less heat output and faster performance. In my opinion for $2500 before tax not having an SSD is ludicrous.

You can save money but breaking out parts, Apple especially post enormous markups on every component. For example spec it with a lower amount of RAM and just buy it for 25% of the price on newegg, there's no special magical Apple ram that Steve Jobs rubbed on his head to make it faster. Same for the hard drive, you can get a much faster drive for cheaper if you buy your own.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I think a mac would suit you.[/QUOTE]

I sense some kind of veiled insult, but thank you if your opinion is not such.

[quote name='crazed llama']Just a few tips.

Statistically, Apple is middle of the road when it comes to malfunction rate, many studies such as the one below are available on the subject. Remember, most of the parts in that Macbook (ram, hard drive, optical drive, etc) are mass produced in the same factory in China every other computer is made in.

http://lifehacker.com/#!5524704/laptop+reliability-study-highlights-the-most-sturdy-laptop-makers

If battery life is a concern, an i7 will lower it a noticeable amount. Unless you are doing something extremely processor intensive an i5 should be fine.

Oddly one of the main complaints I hear about MBPs is heat issues, I don't think I've ever used a laptop I'd feel fine putting it on my lap near my junk after it's been on and running for an hour so it's really a moot point. You can mitigate heat a bit with what you put in the laptop. Faster CPU for instance, generates more heat.

For laptops an SSD is your best bet unless you need that entire 500GB of storage on the local drive, you can find 120GB SSDs for less than $200. It will give you better battery life, less heat output and faster performance. In my opinion for $2500 before tax not having an SSD is ludicrous.

You can save money but breaking out parts, Apple especially post enormous markups on every component. For example spec it with a lower amount of RAM and just buy it for 25% of the price on newegg, there's no special magical Apple ram that Steve Jobs rubbed on his head to make it faster. Same for the hard drive, you can get a much faster drive for cheaper if you buy your own.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link to that study. I hadn't seen that previously. Though my personal experience with Toshiba wouldn't lead me to believe its 2nd best in reliability numbers. I have no idea if SquareTrade's sample size for each brand is actually statistically significant like they claim. I suppose someone who does stats would have to confirm that. And of course there are all sorts of variables that come into play that can skew those numbers differently. But the study still looks solid so I'll definitely be doing some more research on Asus. I'm surprised about where Acer and Lenovo came in based on the positive buzz I've heard, but I guess the main thing is everyone has different experiences with different brands.

As far as i5 vs i7 goes its not that big of a deal to me. I want around a 15 inch screen size after having used as small as 13 and as large as 17, and the current model MBP 15 inchers are both i7s, so that's why that is up there. But an i5 isn't a deal breaker or anything.

I've seen some MBPs get quite hot after a couple of hours of gaming on them, but generally my experience from using other MBPs and the 'regular' MacBook is that they're pretty much cool to the touch when you're just doing "regular" or "casual" stuff, but that hasn't been my experience with other laptops, my current Toshiba included. But my hope is to find such a laptop so I can make an adequate comparison to MBP.

As for the SSDs I'm split. They're still sort of at a place where they're quite pricey and I'd imagine we're only a couple of years off before they're a bit more economical. Apple wants ~$200 more to put in a 128GB SSD. Just a quick glance on Amazon has comparable notebook SSDs for around $230. To install my own would be just as costly, less anything I could get for selling whatever hard drive comes with the MBP. I guess it will come down to how much data I want on the laptop vs. how much I'm willing to transfer stuff back and forth with my external hard drive which has a ton of media I don't keep on the laptop right now. Unfortunately I don't have any kind of media PC or home server set up yet where I could stream or quickly transfer files I needed to a laptop.

As for upgrading the hard drive and RAM on my own, if I were to get a MBP, is a great idea. From what I understood, it was harder to do with the older unibody frames so that is why I was thinking of giving in to the Apple markup, but now I see they've made everything easily accessible from the bottom on newer MBPs. So I will definitely do that should I go that route and get a MBP.

Thank you for taking time to reply. Your post was informative and has given me some more things to think about/consider.
 
SSD is almost mandatory if you want anything in speed. HD is the slowest thing in the system, and getting an i7 would be an insult to that speed. You could easily extend your laptop by several years considering how fast it should perform over a mechanical HD.

Nothing can match the body of a MBP because it's reflected in the price. No one besides users drooling over a shiny body would want to pay those prices. I've seen MBP getting abused, and no, that metal doesn't protect anything that a stupid user can do.

Last thing to note but Apple's batteries are so good because you can't replace them. Any other laptop usually has the option to get an extended or even purchase a replacement. You're ultimately counting down till the laptop is useless, versus getting a replacement battery with anything else.

I would point to an Alienware, but they fit all their laptops with power hungry nvidias.... what's in the new MBP? AMD... for a reason.

I would give you an alternative option but most of them out there have Nvidia.... so it'll take awhile before AMD can get in laptops.
 
What are SSD failure rates like versus mechanical HDs? Are they lower because of less moving parts? Or the same/higher for other reasons?

Does anyone know a good way to navigate or browse the Asus website? It appears they have a hundred different models/configurations and while they've sorted them by Business/Gaming/Entertainment/Versatility/etc. there isn't any further way to sort them unless I'm missing something big.

It also looks like Asus has some aluminum cases - anyone have any experience with them?
 
[quote name='kodave']What are SSD failure rates like versus mechanical HDs? Are they lower because of less moving parts? Or the same/higher for other reasons?

Does anyone know a good way to navigate or browse the Asus website? It appears they have a hundred different models/configurations and while they've sorted them by Business/Gaming/Entertainment/Versatility/etc. there isn't any further way to sort them unless I'm missing something big.

It also looks like Asus has some aluminum cases - anyone have any experience with them?[/QUOTE]

For ssd failure rates, it works or it doesn't and the only thing to worry about is maxing the writes…. I would follow reviews, if Any say doa, skip. I have had OCZ, their new ones suck, but all the rest are great and I've used Kingston, WD, and crucial with no problems for months now.

Asus site sucks you'll have to go through the menus. There isn't any other way.

Aluminum body isnt everything… I've seen plenty of great laptops made out of good ol plastic (Dell mini)
 
[quote name='kodave']What are SSD failure rates like versus mechanical HDs? Are they lower because of less moving parts? Or the same/higher for other reasons?
[/QUOTE]

I don't know the numbers, but I know people that have had more problems with SSDs than HDDs. Even so, I'm using a 60 GB SSD. I keep everything backed up on a 1 TB HDD, so if it does fail, it's no big deal.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220957


Are you looking for something like this? To me it's much better than a MBP. Being a computer major I just can't stand Macs. In my opinion for the price it's just a gimped machine. I mean okay they can be nice but it's never worth the money imo.


The 17 inch screen might be a bit big for what your looking for though, but at least it gives you more ideas on better laptops out there. IMO go with a sandy bridge processor anyways that I believe Mac does not offer.


As for SSDs they're nice ... really nice, yet I wouldn't bite on one quite yet. Like Dark said more people have problems with them than HDDs. By the end of the year it'll be different though.
 
What does "occasional gaming" mean to you?

Then go from there.

Anything a MBP can do another laptop can do it for $1000 less. The difference is you putting in the time to find a program suitable for your needs. MBP will come with the programs you want from the minute you open it up, that is the difference.

It sounds like you have no problem with the price. If that is the case, then pull the trigger on the MBP. If price is an issue, get a netbook for around $250 (does web/chat/school work) and spend $600 on a building yourself a desktop PC that can do it all. Video/photo/music editing and gaming without worrying if it could run it. There you go, you just saved yourself almost $1000 and can now do everything you want.

Seriously, I could build a VERY high end PC (just high end will save $300+), buy a netbook, buy a 2 year plan for an iphone and have enough left over to supply a full semester's worth of personal stash (like I said, personal stash).

Or I could buy just a MBP and get an itouch that will never see much use.


/edit: The lesson to learn is never try to make your laptop do everything. There is no point in trying to have a powerful laptop, the thing still needs to run on a battery. I learned the hard way, seems like n25philly did too.
 
I don't get all the SSD hate in this thread.

I've got 5 different models/makers of SSD, Cosair, kingston, WD, OCZ, intel.... not a problem with any.

There have been problems with certain types... OCZ had a bad rash of them, and Kingston had some really lousy ones to begin with, but if you follow the reviews, you'll make up for it in speed.

seriously, it's WORTH it.

SSD are very similar to memory sticks... just different in how they are fabricated, no one scoffs at memory being so "bad"....


I've got 2 running my HTPCs... they boot up faster than the sony Blu player... I counted... less than 7 seconds... the damn Sony tv takes longer to turn "on".

Wife's netbook Dell mini, same too... it doesn't even get to the loading screen.. it's Bios... black.... maybe a flicker of Windows, and it's already to the desktop.

I have been running my machine for almost a year now... rock solid... no issues, faster than hell.
 
These threads pop up every so often. The I'm-going-to-buy-what-I-want-no-matter-the-replies-but-I-feel-compelled-to feign-due-diligence thread. When you build in the "Apple VS" angle, you double the entertainment.

And it's absurd that MBPs or regular MBs stay cool to the touch. My wife's gone through three, they're hot no matter the CPU load. Apple's cooling solution is the hope that the aluminum casing will disperse heat -- it don't.

464547641_7NixC-L-2.jpg
 
[quote name='xycury']I don't get all the SSD hate in this thread.

I've got 5 different models/makers of SSD, Cosair, kingston, WD, OCZ, intel.... not a problem with any.

There have been problems with certain types... OCZ had a bad rash of them, and Kingston had some really lousy ones to begin with, but if you follow the reviews, you'll make up for it in speed.

seriously, it's WORTH it.

SSD are very similar to memory sticks... just different in how they are fabricated, no one scoffs at memory being so "bad"....


I've got 2 running my HTPCs... they boot up faster than the sony Blu player... I counted... less than 7 seconds... the damn Sony tv takes longer to turn "on".

Wife's netbook Dell mini, same too... it doesn't even get to the loading screen.. it's Bios... black.... maybe a flicker of Windows, and it's already to the desktop.

I have been running my machine for almost a year now... rock solid... no issues, faster than hell.[/QUOTE]

I can't say they're bad persay, it's just when you're buying a laptop sometimes it can be hard to find out what brand everything is. I'd hate for us to suggest a SSD and he gets an OCZ. Just going with HDD he'd be a bit safer unless he wants to dig up exactly what brands are in what.
 
[quote name='dothog']These threads pop up every so often. The I'm-going-to-buy-what-I-want-no-matter-the-replies-but-I-feel-compelled-to feign-due-diligence thread. When you build in the "Apple VS" angle, you double the entertainment.

And it's absurd that MBPs or regular MBs stay cool to the touch. My wife's gone through three, they're hot no matter the CPU load. Apple's cooling solution is the hope that the aluminum casing will disperse heat -- it don't.

464547641_7NixC-L-2.jpg
[/QUOTE]

No need to be a dick about my intentions for creating this thread.

I said from the outset I was leaning toward a MBP but had X number of reasons why I wasn't sold on one versus Y number of reasons why I liked them.

That aside, I've been doing more than feigning due diligence.

I've gone out to look at various laptops at chain stores (whose selection are mainly the brands/models I'd never be interested in). I went on Asus' crappy website and pulled every model number for the new i5 and i7 processors, then I looked up multiple reviews (that I could find) of the models. Turns out Asus primarily uses 6 cell batteries that have no longevity and they rarely support any upgrades to something like a 9 cell. Reading multiple reviews of the latest MBPs, people were getting up to 4 hours on the battery gaming and 7 to 11 hours on DVD playback, websurfing, etc. That far surpasses most of what I've read for any other laptops. I've also researched heavily Lenovo ThinkPads. Standard battery life but a lot of the models are double the weight of other comparable laptops, which defeats the purpose of a portable computer in many respects.

I'm not asking anyone to do my research for me, but there are hundreds of laptops out there versus literally 5 current model options for MacBooks, so I've been more than open if someone wants to point me to something that I've been unaware of in researching non-Macs.

Everyone has their own opinion on the MacBook heat factor - I've used several MacBooks in the past for regular web surfing and for gaming. Yeah, it heated really hot up during gaming but that's expected. When you're not blasting the processor all to hell, in my experience, the MacBooks have been cool to the touch as opposed to other laptops I've used that generate a higher level of heat no matter what they're doing. If you're going to game, its going to get hot. But if you're not doing anything intensive, I expect a quality laptop to be relatively cool.

As for what I'm getting? I still am undecided. The extra $1,000+ premium on the MacBookPro for battery/casing/brand name (mostly) is weighing pretty heavily on me. I'm still looking/researching/etc.
 
I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone else about this. Buy the PC (like an Asus), put away the money you saved for 18 months from now, then you can buy another PC notebook with updated specs.

On the topic of SSDs, I have a 120 gig Intel I put in my Asus notebook. It replaced a 5400 rpm HD which was a huge bottleneck. Even if you get a 7200 rpm HD it is still a bottleneck. I'm basing this on the fact my (year-old) notebook boots and performs other everyday tasks faster than my high mid-range desktop I just built. Plus you save battery life in a notebook with an SSD. Only downside is we are still in the first few mass market iterations of SSD drives, which does lead to reliability issues. So in some ways it is a calculated gamble.

http://www.amazon.com/G53JW-A1-Repu...ref=sr_1_6?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1306235148&sr=1-6

Somewhat similar specs for half the price...
 
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Www.dellxps15z.com

The top of the line is only 2k
i7
8th
SSd 256gb
Gt525m nvidia

5.5 lbs but I think it's the 8 cell battery
Super thin less than an inch
 
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