Idiotekque
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Note: This was originally posted on the XoticPC forums, since that's where I'm looking to buy my notebook. Also, please refrain from suggesting that I build a desktop for half the price. I completely understand how that is the cheaper way to go, but for lifestyle reasons a desktop is not what I need.
And yeah, this is a pretty long post... I'm trying be very thorough!
General Questions
1) What is your budget?
Trying to keep the total build cost under $2000 dollars. Notice I said "trying"...
2) What size notebook would you prefer?
Desktop replacement; 17"+.
3) What country (and state) are you buying this in?
Hawaii, USA.
4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
I don't like Dell, ASUS, or Lenovo. I don't know much about MSI. I have mixed feelings about Alienware (and yes, I know they are Dell). I've done a lot of research about Clevo/Sager notebooks and I am pretty much 99% positive that this is the company I want to buy, so I'm not really looking for suggestions to buy other companies' products.
5) What tasks will you be performing with the notebook?
Web use, graphic art (Adobe products), general business related software (Word, Excel, etc), casual DAW (digital audio workshop) use, and current generation gaming and online gaming.
6) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places or leaving it on your desk?
It will be mobile to some extent, but I understand the size of the notebook type that I want and I'm fine with the weight and size.
7) Will you be playing games on it; if so, which games?
Yes. Demanding games such as Skyrim, Metro 2033, etc.
8) How many hours of battery life do you need?
Not too worried. 2-3 hours is what I expect.
9) Do you mind buying online without seeing the notebook in person?
I'm buying from XoticPC, so that seems like a silly question.
10) Which OS do you prefer?
I love XP Pro, but for program compatibility I'll be using the cheapest version of Windows 7 (even though I don't want to).
Screen Specifics
11) From the choices below, what screen resolutions would you prefer? (more details below)
1920x1080 or something similar for gaming.
12) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non glossy screen?
I'm really not sure here. I was set on a matte screen, but then I've heard about refresh rate problems with Clevo matte screens. I also hear that glossy screens do make graphics look richer and more vibrant. I'm really unsure on this one.
Build Quality and Design
13) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?
Not really, no. It needs to perform.
14) When are you buying this laptop and how long do you want this laptop to last?
Realistically, a few years. I plan to upgrade the GPU in the future though to handle new games, because this will be a GAMING laptop.
Notebook Components
15) How much hard drive space do you want; 250GB, 320GB, 500GB, 750GB, 1TB, or 1.5TB?
I'm not positive yet. I think 750GB will suit my needs just fine though.
16) Would you prefer a SSD Hard Drive? How much space do you want?
I'm also not sure about this yet, but I will probably a modest SSD to boot from and run some high impact games on to kill load times (like Skyrim).
17) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, CD/DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?
I'm old school, so while I do almost everything digitally, I DO want an optical drive. For $75, I think I do want the entry level Blu-Ray drive.
18) What speed CPU/Processor would you like? Dual core or Quad Core CPU?
Quad core, although I'm not too worried about having the top of the line model.
19) Do you use wireless, or do you plan on using it? Do you use Bluetooth, or do you plan on using it?
I plan on using wireless for online gaming. I can do with or without Bluetooth.
---
Now then, here are the two systems I have "built". I really don't know a whole lot about why I should buy one over the other, so I'm looking for some serious insight into this. Here is the first system; the P370EM:
Display: 17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
I'd love more insight on the difference between matte and glossy screens. Do matte screens really affect the vibrancy? Also, is the 72% color gamut screen really worth the extra $120 and 4-7 day build time addition?
Processor: Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU – S2R174)
This will be a gaming laptop primarily, and I've heard the difference in performance between these processors is almost null. Is there any good reason to upgrade this?
Thermal Compound: IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )
Is this worth the extra money? I'm not that technically proficient at upgrading notebooks myself, so for $35 this doesn't sound like a bad addition. I also want to upgrade the GPU in the future, for example, when setting up SLI GTX 680Ms will be much cheaper. Is this a good addition in that respect to handle a stronger, hotter GPU/s down the road?
Graphics Video Card: SLi ENABLED DUAL (2) 1536MB PCI-Express nVIDIA GTX 670M's (3072MB Total) w/ GDDR5 DX11 Video Cards [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R704)
This is probably one of the biggest concerns for me. Up to this point, I was planning on building a notebook with a single 680M, in the hope that I could buy another one down the line and SLI them (I think this is possible?). However, that's another $250 on this notebook, and from what I see, it LOOKS like 670M SLI only very slightly weaker than a single 680M. Is this true? I also hear that the 670M SLI setup can be overclocked better than a single 680M, allowing you to actually surpass the capabilities of the 680M. I'm hoping that the 670M SLI will play all current gen games at the highest settings (ultra) just fine for awhile (bar some games, like The Secret World and Darksiders 2), and that once the price on the 680M SLI setup drops in the future, I can upgrade to that. Is this a smart plan, or is it nonsense? This is probably the biggest concern I have that I want feedback on. Remember that another $250 add on really hurts my budget here and may really make me have to cut corners in other places.
Copper Cooling Upgrade: Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (Adds to Build time) (XPC Service) ( + 79 )
This is a bit of a pricey upgrade, but along the same lines as adding the thermal compound to the build, is this a good idea to keep the system cool and capable of handling a stronger GPU in the future?
Ram: 8GB - DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (SKU - S4S423P)
I really don't think I need an upgrade here. 8GB is more than enough to handle anything, right? Especially gaming? For only $15 more, I could have 12GB. Is that a smart upgrade, or totally useless?
mSATA SSD Drive: 64GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured for Intel SRT ( Smart Response Technology ) ( + 100 )
I'm not worried about having a massive SSD here, so is this a good add on? I want to boot from an SSD, and install some high impact games to cut down on loading times. What would you say about this, and would it really be that bad to just take this out of the build?
Hard Drive: 750gb 7200rpm (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache) (SKU - S5R306) ( + 20 )
I'm planning on getting a couple TB external hard drive in the future, so this should be a simple, effective buy, right?
Optical Drive Bay: 6x Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special! (SKU - S7P557) ( + 75 )
This should handle all my optical drive needs with ease, right? Any reason I should or shouldn't go with this option?
Wireless Network: Sager - Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1103 (3x3) (SKU - S8R056) ( + 60 )
I'm unsure if I really need the top of the line option here, but I keep hearing about how important having a Bigfoot Networks Killer is, and the next step down from this is only $10 less. Do I need this for online gaming? How important is it? Should I buy a cheaper one?
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
Not much to say here; I don't think I'm willing to pay another $100 for sound. I have headphones that I use as well, so this shouldn't be a big issue. I HAVE heard about some headphone issues with Clevos though. What can anyone tell me about that?
Redline Boosts: N/A
Is there any good reason I should look into these options? They're quite expensive and it seems like you can do this yourself. Is overclocking this machine difficult for someone who isn't extremely technically inclined? Is it worth the extra money?
Premium Packaging: N\A
What use is this? If the notebook comes to me and has been damaged during transit, wouldn't I just send it back anyways? I can't imagine that I would be responsible to just deal with the damage, correct?
---
One down, one to go. Here are the specs for the P170EM:
Display: 17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
(See first setup.)
Processor: Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU – S2R174)
(See first setup.)
Thermal Compound: IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )
(See first setup.)
Graphics Video Card: nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 4,096MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 with Optimus Technology [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R406) ( + 495 )
This is a REALLY big hit on my budget, but it seems like XoticPC doesn't give SLI options for this system. Is this system NOT CAPABLE of running a SLI setup? Why are those options missing? Also please see the comments on the first setup regarding the GPU.
Copper Cooling Upgrade: Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (Adds to Build time) (XPC Service) ( + 79 )
(See first setup.)
Ram: 8GB - DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (SKU - S4S423P)
(See first setup.)
mSATA SSD Drive: 64GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured for Intel SRT ( Smart Response Technology ) ( + 100 )
(See first setup.)
Hard Drive: 750gb 7200rpm (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache) (SKU - S5R306) ( + 20 )
(See first setup.)
Optical Drive Bay: 6x Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special! (SKU - S7P557) ( + 75 )
(See first setup.)
Wireless Network: Sager - Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 (SKU - S8R110)
This one is tough. Putting the 680M GPU into the build KILLS my budget, and I have to cut corners here. What should I do? See the wireless network questions in the first setup too.
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
(See first setup.)
Redline Boosts: N/A
(See first setup.)
Premium Packaging: N\A
(See first setup.)
---
And that's it. Sorry for the MASSIVE post, but I really want to be thorough here. It seems like going with the P370EM would be the best option, because I really don't have to cut corners with the 670M SLI GPU being included in the price, but like I said before, I'm not sure if that's the smartest buy. It also seems like the P370EM is newer, but does that mean it's a better choice? Is it going to stay technologically relevant longer than the P170EM?
Any help here would be GREATLY appreciated!
And yeah, this is a pretty long post... I'm trying be very thorough!
General Questions
1) What is your budget?
Trying to keep the total build cost under $2000 dollars. Notice I said "trying"...
2) What size notebook would you prefer?
Desktop replacement; 17"+.
3) What country (and state) are you buying this in?
Hawaii, USA.
4) Are there any brands that you prefer or any you really don't like?
I don't like Dell, ASUS, or Lenovo. I don't know much about MSI. I have mixed feelings about Alienware (and yes, I know they are Dell). I've done a lot of research about Clevo/Sager notebooks and I am pretty much 99% positive that this is the company I want to buy, so I'm not really looking for suggestions to buy other companies' products.
5) What tasks will you be performing with the notebook?
Web use, graphic art (Adobe products), general business related software (Word, Excel, etc), casual DAW (digital audio workshop) use, and current generation gaming and online gaming.
6) Will you be taking the notebook with you to different places or leaving it on your desk?
It will be mobile to some extent, but I understand the size of the notebook type that I want and I'm fine with the weight and size.
7) Will you be playing games on it; if so, which games?
Yes. Demanding games such as Skyrim, Metro 2033, etc.
8) How many hours of battery life do you need?
Not too worried. 2-3 hours is what I expect.
9) Do you mind buying online without seeing the notebook in person?
I'm buying from XoticPC, so that seems like a silly question.
10) Which OS do you prefer?
I love XP Pro, but for program compatibility I'll be using the cheapest version of Windows 7 (even though I don't want to).
Screen Specifics
11) From the choices below, what screen resolutions would you prefer? (more details below)
1920x1080 or something similar for gaming.
12) Do you want a glossy/reflective screen or a matte/non glossy screen?
I'm really not sure here. I was set on a matte screen, but then I've heard about refresh rate problems with Clevo matte screens. I also hear that glossy screens do make graphics look richer and more vibrant. I'm really unsure on this one.
Build Quality and Design
13) Are the notebook's looks and stylishness important to you?
Not really, no. It needs to perform.
14) When are you buying this laptop and how long do you want this laptop to last?
Realistically, a few years. I plan to upgrade the GPU in the future though to handle new games, because this will be a GAMING laptop.
Notebook Components
15) How much hard drive space do you want; 250GB, 320GB, 500GB, 750GB, 1TB, or 1.5TB?
I'm not positive yet. I think 750GB will suit my needs just fine though.
16) Would you prefer a SSD Hard Drive? How much space do you want?
I'm also not sure about this yet, but I will probably a modest SSD to boot from and run some high impact games on to kill load times (like Skyrim).
17) Do you need an optical drive? If yes, a CDRW/DVD-ROM, CD/DVD Burner or Blu-Ray drive?
I'm old school, so while I do almost everything digitally, I DO want an optical drive. For $75, I think I do want the entry level Blu-Ray drive.
18) What speed CPU/Processor would you like? Dual core or Quad Core CPU?
Quad core, although I'm not too worried about having the top of the line model.
19) Do you use wireless, or do you plan on using it? Do you use Bluetooth, or do you plan on using it?
I plan on using wireless for online gaming. I can do with or without Bluetooth.
---
Now then, here are the two systems I have "built". I really don't know a whole lot about why I should buy one over the other, so I'm looking for some serious insight into this. Here is the first system; the P370EM:
Display: 17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
I'd love more insight on the difference between matte and glossy screens. Do matte screens really affect the vibrancy? Also, is the 72% color gamut screen really worth the extra $120 and 4-7 day build time addition?
Processor: Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU – S2R174)
This will be a gaming laptop primarily, and I've heard the difference in performance between these processors is almost null. Is there any good reason to upgrade this?
Thermal Compound: IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )
Is this worth the extra money? I'm not that technically proficient at upgrading notebooks myself, so for $35 this doesn't sound like a bad addition. I also want to upgrade the GPU in the future, for example, when setting up SLI GTX 680Ms will be much cheaper. Is this a good addition in that respect to handle a stronger, hotter GPU/s down the road?
Graphics Video Card: SLi ENABLED DUAL (2) 1536MB PCI-Express nVIDIA GTX 670M's (3072MB Total) w/ GDDR5 DX11 Video Cards [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R704)
This is probably one of the biggest concerns for me. Up to this point, I was planning on building a notebook with a single 680M, in the hope that I could buy another one down the line and SLI them (I think this is possible?). However, that's another $250 on this notebook, and from what I see, it LOOKS like 670M SLI only very slightly weaker than a single 680M. Is this true? I also hear that the 670M SLI setup can be overclocked better than a single 680M, allowing you to actually surpass the capabilities of the 680M. I'm hoping that the 670M SLI will play all current gen games at the highest settings (ultra) just fine for awhile (bar some games, like The Secret World and Darksiders 2), and that once the price on the 680M SLI setup drops in the future, I can upgrade to that. Is this a smart plan, or is it nonsense? This is probably the biggest concern I have that I want feedback on. Remember that another $250 add on really hurts my budget here and may really make me have to cut corners in other places.
Copper Cooling Upgrade: Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (Adds to Build time) (XPC Service) ( + 79 )
This is a bit of a pricey upgrade, but along the same lines as adding the thermal compound to the build, is this a good idea to keep the system cool and capable of handling a stronger GPU in the future?
Ram: 8GB - DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (SKU - S4S423P)
I really don't think I need an upgrade here. 8GB is more than enough to handle anything, right? Especially gaming? For only $15 more, I could have 12GB. Is that a smart upgrade, or totally useless?
mSATA SSD Drive: 64GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured for Intel SRT ( Smart Response Technology ) ( + 100 )
I'm not worried about having a massive SSD here, so is this a good add on? I want to boot from an SSD, and install some high impact games to cut down on loading times. What would you say about this, and would it really be that bad to just take this out of the build?
Hard Drive: 750gb 7200rpm (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache) (SKU - S5R306) ( + 20 )
I'm planning on getting a couple TB external hard drive in the future, so this should be a simple, effective buy, right?
Optical Drive Bay: 6x Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special! (SKU - S7P557) ( + 75 )
This should handle all my optical drive needs with ease, right? Any reason I should or shouldn't go with this option?
Wireless Network: Sager - Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1103 (3x3) (SKU - S8R056) ( + 60 )
I'm unsure if I really need the top of the line option here, but I keep hearing about how important having a Bigfoot Networks Killer is, and the next step down from this is only $10 less. Do I need this for online gaming? How important is it? Should I buy a cheaper one?
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
Not much to say here; I don't think I'm willing to pay another $100 for sound. I have headphones that I use as well, so this shouldn't be a big issue. I HAVE heard about some headphone issues with Clevos though. What can anyone tell me about that?
Redline Boosts: N/A
Is there any good reason I should look into these options? They're quite expensive and it seems like you can do this yourself. Is overclocking this machine difficult for someone who isn't extremely technically inclined? Is it worth the extra money?
Premium Packaging: N\A
What use is this? If the notebook comes to me and has been damaged during transit, wouldn't I just send it back anyways? I can't imagine that I would be responsible to just deal with the damage, correct?
---
One down, one to go. Here are the specs for the P170EM:
Display: 17.3" Sager FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Matte Screen (1920x1080) (SKU - S1R401) ( + 30 )
(See first setup.)
Processor: Sager - 3rd Generation Intel® Ivy Bridge Core™ i7-3610QM (2.3GHz - 3.3GHz, 6MB Intel® Smart Cache, 45W Max TDP) (SKU – S2R174)
(See first setup.)
Thermal Compound: IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU ( + 35 )
(See first setup.)
Graphics Video Card: nVidia GeForce GTX 680M 4,096MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 with Optimus Technology [User Upgradeable] (SKU - S3R406) ( + 495 )
This is a REALLY big hit on my budget, but it seems like XoticPC doesn't give SLI options for this system. Is this system NOT CAPABLE of running a SLI setup? Why are those options missing? Also please see the comments on the first setup regarding the GPU.
Copper Cooling Upgrade: Extra Cooling Copper Heatsinks Applied to the Heatsink/Heatpipes (Adds to Build time) (XPC Service) ( + 79 )
(See first setup.)
Ram: 8GB - DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS) (SKU - S4S423P)
(See first setup.)
mSATA SSD Drive: 64GB Crucial M4 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured for Intel SRT ( Smart Response Technology ) ( + 100 )
(See first setup.)
Hard Drive: 750gb 7200rpm (Serial-ATA II 300 - 16MB Cache) (SKU - S5R306) ( + 20 )
(See first setup.)
Optical Drive Bay: 6x Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special! (SKU - S7P557) ( + 75 )
(See first setup.)
Wireless Network: Sager - Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth™ v3.0 (SKU - S8R110)
This one is tough. Putting the 680M GPU into the build KILLS my budget, and I have to cut corners here. What should I do? See the wireless network questions in the first setup too.
Sound Card: Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
(See first setup.)
Redline Boosts: N/A
(See first setup.)
Premium Packaging: N\A
(See first setup.)
---
And that's it. Sorry for the MASSIVE post, but I really want to be thorough here. It seems like going with the P370EM would be the best option, because I really don't have to cut corners with the 670M SLI GPU being included in the price, but like I said before, I'm not sure if that's the smartest buy. It also seems like the P370EM is newer, but does that mean it's a better choice? Is it going to stay technologically relevant longer than the P170EM?
Any help here would be GREATLY appreciated!