Comic Book Discussion Thread (Marvel, DC, Image, Dark Horse, Top Cow, IDW, Indy, etc)

Matt Young said:
Neal Adams was on Comic Book Men last Sunday and seemed like a genuinely nice fellow who loves his work.
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Saw it as well. Not a fan of the staged/scripted nature of the show, but the tidbits of comic book culture history are great. A show about nothing but that would be great.

 
Matt Young said:
By Harley Quinn Volume 1, you mean Hot In The City which collects issues #0-8, right? I got that in hardcover form a couple months back; $12.49 on Amazon. Always loved Harley so that was a no-brainer. Volume 2 will be out in early April, just so you know.
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Yes, that's the one I got (for $5!). I liked it more than I thought I would, although the humor and mean-ness don't always work for me. The first issue was also a waste of time IMO, but it picks up nicely after that.

Also picked up the first New 52 Suicide Squad collection for $5; looking forward to reading that soon. I thought the animated movie (which i bought after watching the Suicide Squad episode of Arrow) was pretty good overall. Disappointed they killed off a certain character so early in the movie as I had wanted to see what he was like in the comics universe.

 
Just saw an article on ign about the joker shenanigans . What's going on with that story ?
I haven't followed it so all I know is the spoiler they posted .
 
This week I got...

Batman #39

Bitch Planet #1

Bitch Planet #2

Danger Club #7

Low #6

New Avengers #30

Spider-Gwen #1

Thief of Thieves #26

Uncanny Avengers #2

Wicked + The Divine $8

And I think I picked up Bitch Planet mostly for the covers and so if/when people ask me what I'm reading I can yell aloud "BITCH PLANET!"

 
Dark Horse Digital has all their Halo, Mass Effect, and Serenity comics on sale for 99 cents each throughout the weekend. I bought all of the Serenity comics for $15.

https://digital.darkhorse.com/genre/204/

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Darth Vader #2 was sold out at my local place by Wednesday afternoon, so I'll have to get that later. Still bought 6 books this week:

• All-New Captain America: Fear Him #4
• All-New X-Men #38
• Deathstroke #5
• S.H.I.E.L.D. # 3
• Spider-Man and the X-Men #3
• Uncanny Avengers #2
 
My store either stop carrying Theif of Theives or only fill people who have it on the pull list. I have to buy it through Midtown.
 
As much as DC has been kinda losing it's luster for me, I can't deny their variant cover theme for March (recreated movie posters) is fucking awesome. fucking love them and want posters of majority of them.

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This week got...

Avengers #42

Descender #1

All-New Hawkeye #1

Invincible #117

Nameless #2

Princess Leia #1

Saga #26

Swamp Thing #40

 
With the Black Vortex delayed, I only bought 4 books this week, and 1 of them was released last week.

• Darth Vader #2
• Guardians Team-Up #1 (Skottie Young variant)
• Harley Quinn #15 (Harley Quinn Month variant)
• Princess Leia #1
 
detectiveconan16 said:
Is she talking about stupid Jimmy Olsen turning into a capable Black alpha male? I personally find it lazy that one can't make original characters with original names.
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Here is the original statement: http://www.tmz.com/2015/02/28/michelle-rodriguez-minorities-white-superhero-roles-movies/

Then the one I posted is the clarification.

Basically she is saying that it is ridiculous that characters are being turned to a different race or gender in order to make everything politically correct.

She is suggesting that people develop new heroes rather than change the existing ones.

 
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Maybe they're just casting people from other races because they think those people would be good in those roles. Race seldom has any effect on a character's actual identity. We've all gotten used to Sam Jackson Nick Fury, and only super goatheads can't handle Idris Elba as Heimdall.

Her solution is more like "make separate black movies" (i.e. stuff that will be low budget and tank at the box office) instead of letting black people play roles in comic movies that are largely defined/limited by source material. In other words, keep those black people out if you don't have room to invent new characters for the story. Which I disagree with.

 
eastx said:
Maybe they're just casting people from other races because they think those people would be good in those roles. Race seldom has any effect on a character's actual identity. We've all gotten used to Sam Jackson Nick Fury, and only super goatheads can't handle Idris Elba as Heimdall.

Her solution is more like "make separate black movies" (i.e. stuff that will be low budget and tank at the box office) instead of letting black people play roles in comic movies that are largely defined/limited by source material. In other words, keep those black people out if you don't have room to invent new characters for the story. Which I disagree with.
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But they fucking nailed it the first time they did it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR_d-GKfhJY

 
eastx said:
Maybe they're just casting people from other races because they think those people would be good in those roles. Race seldom has any effect on a character's actual identity. We've all gotten used to Sam Jackson Nick Fury, and only super goatheads can't handle Idris Elba as Heimdall.

Her solution is more like "make separate black movies" (i.e. stuff that will be low budget and tank at the box office) instead of letting black people play roles in comic movies that are largely defined/limited by source material. In other words, keep those black people out if you don't have room to invent new characters for the story. Which I disagree with.
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I really like Idris Elba, but it doesn't make sense for a Norse god to be anything, but Scandinavian. Norse "mythology" is a religion. I'm sure people would be up in arms if Woody Allen played Mohammed. The irony is people that believe in Norse mythology are a minority of people, yet their views are being suppressed by studios trying to include minority characters.

Spawn is one of the most successful comic book characters of all time and he was black (I think he -Al Simmons- died in the comic?) The movie sucked, but that was due to technology at the time. This is a prime example of comic movie that should be remade.

Static is a original black character and he is in a lot of DCs stuff. I believe his is the only one that made it into the universe from Milestone, but there will be successes and failures when you create characters. It is easier to "be lazy" as she said and change someone elses creation, though.

I don't think she is saying "make separate black movies", she is saying come up with an original minority character, rather than changing an iconic literary character to appease a guilty conscience or to be PC.

The changes are being made to make the characters more current with the population of the USA. Let's be honest. That isn't being done because the suits care about representing all people in cinema though...It is being done as a preventative measure so they are not labeled as excluding minority characters or sexist or homophobic.

It's getting to a point where it is too formulaic...Just like 90s comics where every team was basically the same...a strong guy, an archer/ranged character, a person with magic, a person with claws, a person with guns. Make a couple of them women or non white and we have our team.

I don't care if you have an Asian, Black, gay Batman...Just don't make that character Bruce Wayne. Give them their own origin, their own identity as a fully fleshed out character, not just a novelty.

bardockkun said:
But they fucking nailed it the first time they did it...
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Black people love meteorman! And it was probably more successful than the marvel super hero movies out at that time. (I think that is the same year captain america came out? or maybe it was fantastic four?)

 
slowdive21 said:
I don't care if you have an Asian, Black, gay Batman...Just don't make that character Bruce Wayne. Give them their own origin, their own identity as a fully fleshed out character, not just a novelty.

Black people love meteorman! And it was probably more successful than the marvel super hero movies out at that time. (I think that is the same year captain america came out? or maybe it was fantastic four?)
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Meteorman made $8 million total in the US. Its budget is estimated at $30 million. $8 million was not within the top 100 for that year and the 100th film So I Married an Axe Murderer, is considered a bomb. But black people love it! :p

I mean, I think your perspective has elements of racism to it (however unintentionally), but I'd rather not get in an argument about that. It's not an enjoyable debate to have.

 
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No joke, I saw Meteor Man twice in the theaters as a child and rented it when it came out. I was a stupid child, also I'm not black.
 
I wonder if they made Meteor Man today, would it be successful enough? Like say the "shocking" or "runaway" success of the Best Man Holiday? It probably wouldn't get funded for a myriad of reasons, especially "not enough white people" or nobody funds "modest" budgets. That and it'd probably be an indie or web-streaming movie.

That being said, I wished tv aired it more than Blankman when I was a kid.

 
eastx said:
Meteorman made $8 million total in the US. Its budget is estimated at $30 million. $8 million was not within the top 100 for that year and the 100th film So I Married an Axe Murderer, is considered a bomb. But black people love it! :p

I mean, I think your perspective has elements of racism to it (however unintentionally), but I'd rather not get in an argument about that. It's not an enjoyable debate to have.
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"The black people love it" was a paraphrase from tmz. Sorry, I figured you guys watched the longer segment and I was referencing their joke...My statement was that it did better than the other Marvel movies at the time. Captain America for example: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103923/

Where you think you see racism, I see someone who has been raised in a pc world, who can not separate actual and his own perception of racism. Out of the wall of text, you found the joke to pick apart. I'd say that is what someone does when they know they have nothing else to pick apart.

My issue is more with changing the history of a character to be PC and then making that the main canon that is shown to the public.

I am not a religious person, but I am pretty sure if Moses existed, he didn't look like Christian Bale. It doesn't make sense. This stuff doesn't bother anyone else?

If Luke Cage, Jon Stewart, or T'Challa were suddenly white in the marvel movies, I would be pissed about that too.

I guess we live in a world where "mashups" and remakes flourish rather than creativity. It is "laziness" on everyone's part.

 
slowdive21 said:
"The black people love it" was a paraphrase from tmz. Sorry, I figured you guys watched the longer segment and I was referencing their joke...My statement was that it did better than the other Marvel movies at the time. Captain America for example: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103923/

Where you think you see racism, I see someone who has been raised in a pc world, who can not separate actual and his own perception of racism. Out of the wall of text, you found the joke to pick apart. I'd say that is what someone does when they know they have nothing else to pick apart.
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I didn't know you were joking, but I mentioned that line because it was part of your argument. Said argument seemed not to understand that Meteorman bombed (and proved my point about separate black-focused movies doing poorly in theaters).

The Captain America movie of that time was a low-budget trainwreck that was released directly to video in the United States because it turned out so poorly. There were no Marvel theatrical films of note until Blade came around in 1998. You could compare Meteorman's performance to Batman Returns (1992), I guess. It grossed $266.8 million.

 
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Meteorman was actually a comedy, so that was a misstep on my part. Though I think someone else brought it up originally. ;) So I guess it is Apples to Oranges. I was responding to the other dudes quote, so In my mind it was a sidenote, not my main argument. I don't think DC comics are doing the "race/gender" switching like marvel...Really I should be saying Disney. I could be wrong, but maybe DC is doing a more thoughtful job on the whole thing.

It would be interesting to see how people would react if Disney remade Snow White or Cinderella as a minority. The actual Disney branded stories, not some unlicensed adaptation.

eastx said:
Maybe they're just casting people from other races because they think those people would be good in those roles.

In other words, keep those black people out if you don't have room to invent new characters for the story. Which I disagree with.
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I understand what you are saying about: "Maybe they're just casting people from other races because they think those people would be good in those roles." , but I do not think this is what they are doing (maybe I am too cynical). In an ideal world this would be, well ideal...But this is the problem with an affirmative action way of thinking. I believe we are in the stage (in the comic/movie world) of substituting anyone into a role to make it more appealing to people, because "We need more minorities". -And that is in no way a minority's fault, it is due to the lazyness or noncreative decisions of the people in charge.

To bring Idris Elba back into this. He is a great actor. Him being a Norse god makes no sense. It is lazy. Now there could be someone that actually said "he is a great actor", but realistically,it probably came down to, "we need some minorities and this guy is 'hot right now' because he was on The Wire".

I really liked his character in Ghost Rider Spirit of Vengeance. I believe they made him just for the movie. If a shitty movie like that can have a fleshed out minority character from scratch, why can't it be done in more pictures?

I think as far as Marvel/Disney is concerned, they are worried more about image than who is best for the role. There is a reason the girls that have scandals or do anything not vanilla are dropped from the roster.

I think faster than I type, so hopefully that made sense.

 
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Whoa, whoa. Meteor Man was not a comedy. It was definitely trying to go for broad stroke of PG/PG-13 action film in the same sense that there were "funny" one off jokes here and there to remind people they're having a "good time", but nothing to say it was going for a comedy film. Trust me, I'm the Meteor Man movie expert here.

detectiveconan16 said:
I wonder if they made Meteor Man today, would it be successful enough? Like say the "shocking" or "runaway" success of the Best Man Holiday? It probably wouldn't get funded for a myriad of reasons, especially "not enough white people" or nobody funds "modest" budgets. That and it'd probably be an indie or web-streaming movie.

That being said, I wished tv aired it more than Blankman when I was a kid.
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I Think it would have to come out at a time when there's no movies out like Ride Along last year with Ice Cube and Kevin Hart, where there was nothing else going on in the cinemas. Even then it would need much more of a broad appeal and have to be more hokey.

And Blankman was a "comedy" so it was on alot more despite even as a kid I never once laughed once at it except when David Alan Grier got shot in the ass because he thought he was bulletproof.

 
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bardockkun said:
Whoa, whoa. Meteor Man was not a comedy. It was definitely trying to go for broad stroke of PG/PG-13 action film in the same sense that there were "funny" one off jokes here and there to remind people they're having a "good time", but nothing to say it was going for a comedy film. Trust me, I'm the Meteor Man movie expert here.
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Robert Townsend is a comedian. It was supposed to be a funny superhero movie.

I hate using wikipedia as a source, but this is the first thing that just came up when I googled it:

The Meteor Man is a 1993 American superhero comedy film written by, directed by, and starring Robert Townsend with supporting roles done by Marla Gibbs, Eddie Griffin, Robert Guillaume, James Earl Jones, Bill Cosby, and Another Bad Creation.

(If you read movies reviews the consensus is that the movie was supposed to be funny by design.)

 
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Robert Townsend is also in Soldier's Story, don't mean that I'm suppose to laugh when he's on screen.

And movies like Adventureland were advertised as raunchy sex comedy, but that movie was anything, but. Watching the actual movie compared to what advertisers want people to perceive the movie as to get what they believe will be the biggest box office returns are different matters entirely.

 
I can't tell if you are trolling me. Robert Townsend made the movie to be funny/family movie as a contrast to the violent films (portraying minorities) that were being made at the time. It was his way of fighting back against the industry. It is a superhero movie too, but I think it was intended to be at the very least tongue in cheek humor. Which in a way brings us full circle...This is the type of superhero movie that Michelle Rodriguez would applaud being made.

 
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slowdive21 said:
Meteorman was actually a comedy, so that was a misstep on my part. Though I think someone else brought it up originally. ;) So I guess it is Apples to Oranges. I was responding to the other dudes quote, so In my mind it was a sidenote, not my main argument. I don't think DC comics are doing the "race/gender" switching like marvel...Really I should be saying Disney. I could be wrong, but maybe DC is doing a more thoughtful job on the whole thing.

It would be interesting to see how people would react if Disney remade Snow White or Cinderella as a minority. The actual Disney branded stories, not some unlicensed adaptation.

I understand what you are saying about: "Maybe they're just casting people from other races because they think those people would be good in those roles." , but I do not think this is what they are doing (maybe I am too cynical). In an ideal world this would be, well ideal...But this is the problem with an affirmative action way of thinking. I believe we are in the stage (in the comic/movie world) of substituting anyone into a role to make it more appealing to people, because "We need more minorities". -And that is in no way a minority's fault, it is due to the lazyness or noncreative decisions of the people in charge.

To bring Idris Elba back into this. He is a great actor. Him being a Norse god makes no sense. It is lazy. Now there could be someone that actually said "he is a great actor", but realistically,it probably came down to, "we need some minorities and this guy is 'hot right now' because he was on The Wire".

I really liked his character in Ghost Rider Spirit of Vengeance. I believe they made him just for the movie. If a shitty movie like that can have a fleshed out minority character from scratch, why can't it be done in more pictures?

I think as far as Marvel/Disney is concerned, they are worried more about image than who is best for the role. There is a reason the girls that have scandals or do anything not vanilla are dropped from the roster.

I think faster than I type, so hopefully that made sense.
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3 things:

If we're talking about the Marvel movieverse, the "Norse Gods" are just aliens with super strength that use mystical terminology for their technology. Having a black guy in gold armour guarding a bridge that can teleport you across the universe instead of a white guy in gold armour doesn't really require as much of a leap of faith when we're talking about a bridge that can teleport you anywhere in the universe almost instantaneously.

You're confusing affirmative action with tokenism. Most people think it's the same, but it isn't.

So if I'm reading you right, you're saying that a black Peter Parker should be verboten, but Miles Morales is kosher?

 
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dohdough said:
3 things:

If we're talking about the Marvel movieverse, the "Norse Gods" are just aliens with super strength that use mystical terminology for their technology. Having a black guy in gold armour guarding a bridge that can teleport you across the universe instead of a white guy in gold armour doesn't really require as much of a leap of faith when we're talking about a bridge that can teleport you anywhere in the universe almost instantaneously.

You're confusing affirmative action with tokenism. Most people think it's the same, but it isn't.

So if I'm reading you right, you're saying that a black Peter Parker should be verboten, but Miles Morales is kosher?
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1)Well, when this conversation started (a year ago?) I didn't realize that the ultimates universe is supposed to be a separate universe from the main marvel universe. If everything is explained how you just did, then I don't really have a problem with it...Other than the fact that marvel is making the ultimates universe the main universe for the masses. Because they are basically saying that these are Marvel's characters now, not the characters we have built on for 70 years.

I personally think Sam Jackson is a walking parody of himself and him being Nick Fury is a disgrace to an iconic character...Now I understand that the ultimates are an alternate universe, so in theory Nick Fury can be talking broccoli, but it doesn't mean that they should do it. I would hope that he has a well thought out origin and that marvel didn't just say "Ok this guy is Nick Fury, he was designed after Sam Jackson, all of his past is the same as the original Nick Fury".

2) Basically I am saying they are using tokenism in lieu of affirmative action. By trying to do the right thing in their minds, they may be doing the wrong thing. And for people like me who may not be current on the material, it can be confusing and frustrating that the characters and the back stories we know have been changed.

3) Yes.

I really don't think they should use the same names for the characters, maybe that is what it comes down to. Name the character something different, give him a different well thought out origin and I am cool.

I think the reason it bothers people is because they are used to iconic characters that they grew up with. There were black people on krypton, so don't make kal el black, create a black Kryptonian with his own story.

----

I really wanted to find a way to work Jamie Foxx's electro into this, but I haven't seen that movie or read the ultimate spiderman books.

 
Speaking of black superheroes, why the hell can't we get a damn Martian Manhunter movie? Cyborg is cool and all, but Manhunter is far more interesting to me. I guess it can be partly attributed to Manhunter not being a part of the current Justice League lineup.
 
They absolutely should not be swapping the races or genders of established characters for live-action, period. If they want to use Miles Morales for the MCU Spidey, go right ahead. I've never read any of his books, but quite frankly I'm curious to get a glimpse of his story. Don't cast someone of a different race to be Peter Parker. Sam Jackson's Fury is fine by me BECAUSE of the Ultimate universe, and it wasn't an insignificant iteration or one-off variation, either. I mean, The Ultimates basically got me into comics. As far as I'm aware, that character is STILL in the Ultimate universe which also is STILL in publication - although that's soon to change with Secret Wars, but that's beside the point. It's just maddening that MCU Fury doesn't seem to have anything equal to 616 Fury's rich backstory. 

I've been waiting for a really long time for Robin to appear in a Batman movie ever since the franchise made a comeback with Batman Begins. Would I have a problem with it if he DOES appear in Batman v. Superman, and is played by a black actor? NO. Would I want him/her to be named Dick, Jason, Tim or Damian or Carrie? No. He could be Duke, as seen in a Futures End tie-in somewhat recently. I was left wanting to learn a lot more about his time as Robin anyway. Or hell, MAKE THAT ROBIN A NEW CHARACTER WITH A UNIQUE ORIGIN. I'd even be cool with it if his/her origin was a blend of damn-near EVERY Robin. Just don't call them Nightwing at any point, that's Dick's role. (as much as I like Damian, him being Nightwing in Injustice was irritating - especially now that we know what happened to Dick.) Casting/design nonsense aside, I just really want to see a live-action Batman who operates with a Robin again - because that is my ideal image of Batman.

I'll avoid going to the tired argument of "WELL WHAT IF BLACK PANTHER WAS WHITE IN THE MOVIES" for obvious reasons. But, what about secondary characters from the MCU? I'm pretty sure people would have had a problem with it if Rhodey/War Machine had been played by Gerard Butler or someone similar. Does his skin color have anything at all to do with his backstory in the movies? No. Would it have been insulting to those who love the source material? Absolutely. So then, what if Falcon had been played by someone like Zachary Quinto? Again, Falcon's role in The Winter Soldier has absolutely nothing to do with his race, so it could've happened. But it would have been no less infuriating. As great as the movie looked in every trailer, I would've bowed out of the MCU right there without looking back if they were suddenly going to be so disrespectful to their own characters.

And I'm not talking about being insulting/infuriating to the general audience. They'll throw money at just about everything. They don't know anything about those characters that isn't told through the movies, or glimpsed in easy to digest "top 10 lists" online. I'm talking about the hardcore comic book readers who have supported these characters (and their writers/artists/publishers) for years, and loved them, and kept them viable long enough for technology to advance to the point where superheroes can be done well on the big screen.

Side note:

I FORGOT ABOUT METEOR MAN! Wow. Blast of nostalgia. I remember loving that movie. I also seem to recall his "transformation" being somewhat gruesome when the meteor first hit him... but it's been a long time since I've watched it.    

 
Wow, just read through Comics Journal #141, with the Matt Groening interview. This particular copy came from the former West Side Comics, whose owner wrote a letter in this issue. And there are very irate responses to a letter that Buddy, the owner of Lone Star Comics now Mycomicshop, wrote about the subject of comic book violence. Ha! What a great magazine.

 
DestroVega said:
All this talk about black superheroes and no mention of BlankMan?
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He was covered at some point by bardokkun

BTW Thor is on SNL and they did an opening skit where Kenan Thompson was supposed to be one of his brothers. I'm not sure if it was a nod to the movies or coincidence.

 
Maybe the Thor sketch was both, considering the choices of men, you only got one tall white guy, Kenan Thompson, and that kid. I only watch SNL for the ladies, who are quite talented nonetheless. I haven't watched a full episode since Poehler and Samberg were on, and this season was quite fun.

 
So I finally was going to watch "The Losers", I confess I haven't read the comics.I noticed idris elba is in it...The universe man, it is all connected.

 
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