Community Feedback Poll - Game Piracy

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For sure, I think the only rule should be there should be no mention or bragging that the game was obtained via piracy.
 
More than anything else, I can't be sure of bugs, glitches, slowdown or any other technical aspect that they report of in their pirated copy review aren't from the act of removing/circumventing the DRM in the game.
 
If it is an all or none situation, I would have to say "No" but early copies are fine. make them post a picture of the physical disc and box with the review then we know that they received the game through legit terms (unless the stole to from the store but that is not the argument).
 
I say nay.
CAG always had/has a very strong anti-piracy stance and I think it is veyr nobil and should stay that way. If it is a gray area fuck it, id rather keep CAG then have it sink because of a few reviews that could have waited a week.

ALSO Some pirated games are hacked/cracked to get them to work without the disc, so they are changed from what the consumer is buying, so.....the review can only be seen as a good review for that one version of the game IE hacked/cracked version.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']Then all reviews by magazines and persons in the industry must be thrown out, as they have no "consumer" stand point either, they're given the game to play by the publisher.[/quote]

I'm not saying to throw reviews out I'm just saying that these are all flawed consumer reviews, as opposed to legitimate reviews the one's based on pirated copies may have negative consequences.
 
Should CAGs be allowed to post reviews/impressions of pirated software?

No.

But, like many others said, it will be almost impossible to split the "broke street daters" from the "pirates" from the "inside game devs". Sure, a receipt or something could be used, but I think that's a tad extreme.

I'd say continue to keep the piracy talk (of any form) off CAG, but don't moderate legitimate users that have early (legal) copies. That may be tough to do in practice.
 
I vote against piracy reviews because they might have a broken or not have the final build of the game and they might give the game a shitty score because of all the glitches and bugs the game might not have. Also people need to spend more time playing the game to give it a proper review and not just an early quickplay/"first" review.
 
[quote name='Agent_BBJ']If it is an all or none situation, I would have to say "No" but early copies are fine. make them post a picture of the physical disc and box with the review then we know that they received the game through legit terms (unless the stole to from the store but that is not the argument).[/quote]

Kinda squashed your own argument with that last line. But either way, that's being intrusive. I think most CAGs here would agree on a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.
 
So being able to play a game without the disk= the gameplay has changed from a space fps to a puzzle game?

A preview build is still a good indication of what the game is like. Demos are preview builds.
 
[quote name='Dreamer']Piracy is very destructive to the gaming community. Look what happened to the Dreamcast, the best system out at the time. By allowing this stuff on your site, you are condoning it. If so, I will be giving up my membership as I want NO part of it.[/QUOTE]

Yes yes. Piracy is what did the dreamcast in. Piracy!
 
[quote name='MusicNoteLess']Kinda squashed your own argument with that last line. But either way, that's being intrusive. I think most CAGs here would agree on a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.[/QUOTE]

If cheapy wanted the be intrusive, he wouldn't have gotten a lawyer to fight the whole CC legal action thing re: speedy1961.
 
[quote name='MusicNoteLess']Kinda squashed your own argument with that last line. But either way, that's being intrusive. I think most CAGs here would agree on a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.[/QUOTE]

I know I did thought about that as i was typing it. Better me squash it than someone else.
 
[quote name='corrosivefrost']If cheapy wanted the be intrusive, he wouldn't have gotten a lawyer to fight the whole CC legal action thing re: speedy1961.[/quote]

IIRC, I think that it could've been avoided if CAG didn't pressure Speedy into showing legitimate photos of his early leaked ads, specifically citing the PS3 price drop. Which is why I go back to the don't ask, don't tell policy.
 
[quote name='AshesofWake']it being pirated or not, does not change the quality of a game at all. so yes.[/QUOTE]
Maybe this turned out to be a hoax or something, but wasn't there a leaked either Halo 2 or Halo 3 french copy of the game that was actually pretty different from the final product?
 
i dont think someone who can get a copy of a game early can give a better review than someone who waits to get the game (or pre-order) on release date. those who will wait and decide to get it will end up waiting anyways. :)
 
Can everyone please read the OP more carefully? I'm reading through this thread and more than half the responses have the wrong idea or don't understand it.

Cheapy is asking if it is okay for people to post impressions of games if they get them early. It's not condoning or rewarding piracy in any way.
 
You are promoting piracy if you allow it. If people have a place shine, they will pirate a game just so they can get people's attention that they are playing the game.

I played Rock Band 2 at PAX. That is a legit way to play a game before release.
 
[quote name='fatez']i dont think someone who can get a copy of a game early can give a better review than someone who waits to get the game (or pre-order) on release date. those who will wait and decide to get it will end up waiting anyways. :)[/QUOTE]
This is the internet where we can find multiple sources of information on any given subject. Why not add in the impressions of an early copy to your database of knowledge devoted to decided whether you want the game or not? I wouldn't buy a game based on one game review and nothing else, but you can take these multiple sources of info and use them to your advantage.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Can everyone please read the OP more carefully? I'm reading through this thread and more than half the responses have the wrong idea or don't understand it.

Cheapy is asking if it is okay for people to post impressions of games if they get them early. It's not condoning or rewarding piracy in any way.[/quote]

I think the Head title might be throwing off some CAGs as well. It just states "Community feedback poll - Game Piracy". Some might jump to the conclusion that this is only regarding game piracy if they don't read the OP properly.
 
Are there really that many early "reviews"? I've seen people talking about games before release, but nothing of the "these are my official impressions/reviews" sort...

So what are we talking here? Deleting any post mentioning a game being played before street date or what?
 
As long as people that are reviewing games with pirated copies are willing to accept all penalties then sure I think its fine.
 
i say we have a don't ask don't tell policy on cag don't say were you got the game from and if you wanna post a review fine. but for the love of god i don't wanna know where you got it from.
 
[quote name='MusicNoteLess']I think the Head title might be throwing off some CAGs as well. It just states "Community feedback poll - Game Piracy". Some might jump to the conclusion that this is only regarding game piracy if they don't read the OP properly.[/QUOTE]

Read the OP?! No wai!!!1!1111!eleven!
 
[quote name='MusicNoteLess']I think the Head title might be throwing off some CAGs as well. It just states "Community feedback poll - Game Piracy". Some might jump to the conclusion that this is only regarding game piracy if they don't read the OP properly.[/quote]

I said this early on, that the title was very misleading and biased. However, nobody listened to me.
 
[quote name='darthbudge']I said this early on, that the title was very misleading and biased. However, nobody listened to me.[/QUOTE]
I didn't listen to you because I like to go in and edit the registry the MANLY way.
 
I think the reviews should be allowed to stay. There's no way to prove that a game wasn't legally purchased or otherwise played early. Additionally, forbidding the practice of reviewing and discussing games pre-release would open the floodgates to a lot of unforeseen complications.

That said, any discussion of actual piracy must be forbidden. Piracy is wrong and harms the industry. If people are going to pirates games, there's nothing you can do to stop them. However, CAG should not become a clearinghouse for piracy information.
 
I dont think piracy should be rewarded, but if the reviewer can prove it was purchased, I think early reviews are fine. It shouldnt be hard to provide a scan of a reciept or atleast a picture of a box/disc.

manthing: I dont think gamestop does used PC games, and I'm pretty sure those are the most common pirated games. If its console, then thats 1 less used game on the shelf, so for "hot" games it might mean more new sales.
 
innocent until proven guilty. you cant go shutting down people with no proof. the burden on proof should be on the accuser, not the other way around.
 
[quote name='AntiCommie']I dont think piracy should be rewarded, but if the reviewer can prove it was purchased, I think early reviews are fine. It shouldnt be hard to provide a scan of a reciept or atleast a picture of a box/disc.[/QUOTE]

Not every cag has a scanner or camera[phone] to easily get pictures up on the interwebs. They are cheap. And they may not be handy with technology. I mean, we have users who type with their foreheads. And you expect them to use a camera and then upload the photo? Right.
 
[quote name='OneWingedAngeI']innocent until proven guilty. you cant go shutting down people with no proof. the burden on proof should be on the accuser, not the other way around.[/quote]

:applause: Thank you.
 
[quote name='Trakan']Can everyone please read the OP more carefully? I'm reading through this thread and more than half the responses have the wrong idea or don't understand it.

Cheapy is asking if it is okay for people to post impressions of games if they get them early. It's not condoning or rewarding piracy in any way.[/QUOTE]

No...but given the site already has a strong anti-piracy stance, it isn't too hard to make the inference.

I'd say no, in the interest of the site being consistent with its policies across the board. Regardless of how the game is obtained, if there's a chance that it could result in action against CAG I'd say we shouldn't allow posting of the early impressions. Sure, it may not be likely, but nobody here was expecting Circuit City to go after speedy and Cheapy either.

Look at big games like GTA IV or Metal Gear Solid IV - they've got NDAs that, usually with one or two exceptions, require everybody to wait to publish the reviews until the game is released. If a review of a title like that were to pop up here and get noticed, it'd mean that street date was broken, that the copy of the game was pirated, or that an NDA was broken. I don't think the first scenario would affect CAG, but the other two wouldn't exactly invite a warm response from the publisher.

Hell, if it comes down to it, just do what Ain't It Cool News did with the Star Wars reviews - it yanked all of them (even the legit, non-NDA ones) until the day Clone Wars was released, and then reposted them then.
 
[quote name='trip1eX']Did you really need to make a poll for this? It's kind of sad.[/QUOTE]

Did he? No.

If it'll help him to make a decision that's more in line with the community's desire, though, is that a bad thing?
 
Yes.

Piracy is wrong, sure, and if the person is posting saying "Hey, I pirated this game, here are my impressions of it" then I think there is a problem. But so long as they are like "I played the game and here are my impressions" it doesn't make a difference.

People have the freedom to post what they want, so long as they are not advertising pirating sites then I don't really have a problem with them giving their impressions about the game.
 
Yes.

I agree with Darthbudges statement.
"As a gaming site, early impressions could cause more or less people to buy the game depending on how good it is, instead of having to wait until the release date and then reading reviews.
Also, despite common sense, you can't exactly say that said people are indeed pirating the game, they MIGHT have actually purchased it early somewhere."

Plenty of people obtain legal early copies of games.
Let them share their impressions of their game to the CAG community.

This in no way supports piracy.
It does support sharing impressions of games that CAGs have obtained Legally.
 
I think I'm on the losing team here. I think honesty is more important here. If a CAG explains that it is not the full retail copy, that means that they're not playing the game to its full potential. I've noticed in the past that cracked games do not always run as well as retail games, but in the interest of saving people time and money to avoid shitty titles I think it's perfectly okay for someone to give out their two bits.

I tried Sins of a Solar Empire a week before it was officially released and answered questions about in the CAG forums. Now before anyone tries to stomp on my balls here, there wasn't a demo available for this game. I didn't buy the game, but that's because I didn't like it. If Stardock had put out a demo, I would have tried that instead.

In my personal opinion, piracy only takes money away from games that can't stand up to titles that have great multiplayer capabilities (ex: WoW, TF2, Starcraft, Halo 3, etc...)
 
I've got a question: what, if any, benefit does an early review of a game have?

Let's say someone downloads a game and spends all day Friday playing it, and then posts a review on Saturday. That's great...but the game isn't available until Tuesday. And by that point, IGN, GameSpot, and all of the other review sites will have published their reviews, and usually before most of us get home from school or work and can go and buy the game.

Seriously, if you're THAT on the fence about the game, just wait a day or two and you'll see a ton of impressions from legitimate copies online. You'll still be able to find it on Wednesday, for the same price it would've been on Tuesday.
 
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']I've got a question: what, if any, benefit does an early review of a game have?

Let's say someone downloads a game and spends all day Friday playing it, and then posts a review on Saturday. That's great...but the game isn't available until Tuesday. And by that point, IGN, GameSpot, and all of the other review sites will have published their reviews, and usually before most of us get home from school or work and can go and buy the game.

Seriously, if you're THAT on the fence about the game, just wait a day or two and you'll see a ton of impressions from legitimate copies online. You'll still be able to find it on Wednesday, for the same price it would've been on Tuesday.[/QUOTE]
I know more about it earlier so I can jump on any preorder deals/loot if maybe I was going to wait for a deal much farther down the road.
 
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']
Look at big games like GTA IV or Metal Gear Solid IV - they've got NDAs that, usually with one or two exceptions, require everybody to wait to publish the reviews until the game is released. If a review of a title like that were to pop up here and get noticed, it'd mean that street date was broken, that the copy of the game was pirated, or that an NDA was broken. I don't think the first scenario would affect CAG, but the other two wouldn't exactly invite a warm response from the publisher.

[/quote]

This got me thinking, what has changed on CAG recently that would make cheapy think hard about this topic?
I would have to speculate it is the CAG 2.0 changes that were implemented. It's not like early reviews of games or broken street dates became an issue recently, this has been going on since the dawn of criticism, early review copies, and the advent of P2P.
However, could the issue for cheapy be the difference between somone writing in a forum, and someone writing an their personal cag blog? A forum post is usually buried, with a topic usually of the OP's choosing, whereas a CAG blog title can be visible on the front page, and possibly stay there for a period of time if it gets a bunch of views (correct tech interpretation?).

Is the increased visibility of a CAG member's opinion [and thus his/her possible encouragement of piracy or breaking of an NDA] the difference in the issue?
 
[quote name='carpwrist']I think I'm on the losing team here. I think honesty is more important here. If a CAG explains that it is not the full retail copy, that means that they're not playing the game to its full potential. I've noticed in the past that cracked games do not always run as well as retail games, but in the interest of saving people time and money to avoid shitty titles I think it's perfectly okay for someone to give out their two bits.[/QUOTE]

Those two bits would be based off of the cracked copy, which you just said doesn't always run as well as the retail version. Why give impressions of an inferior version of the product?

[quote name='carpwrist']In my personal opinion, piracy only takes money away from games that can't stand up to titles that have great multiplayer capabilities (ex: WoW, TF2, Starcraft, Halo 3, etc...)[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that games that are single player only (let's say...Bioshock) don't have money taken away from them by piracy? :whistle2:s

That argument doesn't make any sense, especially when pirated copies of the games usually don't have any of the online features working. It's usually EASIER to pirate games without multiplayer and to get away with it, and to experience everything the game has to offer without any missing features.
 
[quote name='NWgamer666']This got me thinking, what has changed on CAG recently that would make cheapy think hard about this topic?
I would have to speculate it is the CAG 2.0 changes that were implemented. It's not like early reviews of games or broken street dates became an issue recently, this has been going on since the dawn of criticism, early review copies, and the advent of P2P.
However, could the issue for cheapy be the difference between somone writing in a forum, and someone writing an their personal cag blog? A forum post is usually buried, with a topic usually of the OP's choosing, whereas a CAG blog title can be visible on the front page, and possibly stay there for a period of time if it gets a bunch of views (correct tech interpretation?).

Is the increased visibility of a CAG member's opinion [and thus his/her possible encouragement of piracy or breaking of an NDA] the difference in the issue?[/QUOTE]
Its probably all the rock band 2 stuff.
 
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']I've got a question: what, if any, benefit does an early review of a game have?

Let's say someone downloads a game and spends all day Friday playing it, and then posts a review on Saturday. That's great...but the game isn't available until Tuesday. And by that point, IGN, GameSpot, and all of the other review sites will have published their reviews, and usually before most of us get home from school or work and can go and buy the game.

Seriously, if you're THAT on the fence about the game, just wait a day or two and you'll see a ton of impressions from legitimate copies online. You'll still be able to find it on Wednesday, for the same price it would've been on Tuesday.[/QUOTE]

Professional reviewers aren't the average gamer.
Sometimes, professional reviewers get pressure from companies to put the scores within ranges *cough* Kane & Lynch *cough*.
Hearing what a few of your online buddies may think about the game, since they actually played it could be worth more than 1000 official reviews.
Does it matter how they got it? Not really. What matters is the impressions you get to hear about. Otherwise, pre-release reviews/impressions/everything will have to go.
Just get rid of the CAG-Cast while you're at it too. Cause they talk about stuff that isn't released. Did they get it from piracy? I don't know. Let's have cheapy and wombat post some receipts and photos of cases/discs!
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I know more about it earlier so I can jump on any preorder deals/loot if maybe I was going to wait for a deal much farther down the road.[/QUOTE]

That's assuming that the pirated version leaks while the preorder sales or freebies are still around. From what I've seen and heard, that usually isn't the case - we're talking days or maybe weeks of lead time.

Besides that, if you're thinking of waiting months for a game to drop in price then odds are you weren't all that interested in it in the first place. I'd suspect that, for games like that, only the most glowing reviews would be enough to change opinions...and realistically, how often is that scenario going to happen?
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I know more about it earlier so I can jump on any preorder deals/loot if maybe I was going to wait for a deal much farther down the road.[/QUOTE]
Let me give you an example right now.

STALKER: Clear Sky.

I could preorder it on steam right now and save myself 5$. However, there were a bunch of little things in the original Stalker that I hated, things most reviewers would only give a passing mention to if any. Now, If someone had an early copy of this and was actively posting in a thread, I can ask them anything I want, and they can tell me right then and there.

With a traditional review, there is no interaction. Just you reading whatever the guy wrote.
 
I say Yes, But only for review/preview/first impression purposes. to solely pirate a game for your own entertainment is entirely different in my opinion. If other people can gain from insight made from a pirated game that's a positive, even if it's a negative reflection of the game. I enjoy reading about games and the more I read about a game the easier it makes my decision to purchase a game, especially before it comes out. Now It surprises me when reviewers acknowledge that they used a pirated copy, but it is also likely that any faults within a pirated copy are in that copy alone. Even though I think it's okay for these pirated games to be reviewed I also believe that some of them(the reviews) can be misleading and thus should be presented as a preview or a first impression of the game, it would be a little more forgiving and fair to the reader(s) if the game was not rated.

I don't know if it sounds like I'm giving mixed signals here, but my main point is that it should be okay to give information about a pirated game as long as it is not solely for your own personal entertainment. I'd hope the pirate would purchase the full retail game upon launch day as well.
 
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']That's assuming that the pirated version leaks while the preorder sales or freebies are still around. From what I've seen and heard, that usually isn't the case - we're talking days or maybe weeks of lead time.[/QUOTE]

Yes, cause all pre-order bonuses sell out immediately and thus you can't get in on the action with weeks or days to spare. :roll:
 
[quote name='Gothic Walrus']That's assuming that the pirated version leaks while the preorder sales or freebies are still around. From what I've seen and heard, that usually isn't the case - we're talking days or maybe weeks of lead time.

Besides that, if you're thinking of waiting months for a game to drop in price then odds are you weren't all that interested in it in the first place. I'd suspect that, for games like that, only the most glowing reviews would be enough to change opinions...and realistically, how often is that scenario going to happen?[/QUOTE]
I think about waiting months for every game. I am a cheapassgamer. Very very few games do I ever buy at release, and when I do, its only because of preorder/ridiculous value. The quality of the game has nothing to do with it.

I'll give you an example of this too.

Dreamfall: The Longest journey. When it first came out, I thought, awesome a sequel to The Longest Journey. But at the time, it was more than I was willing to pay for it. Not because I didn't want the game, but I refuse to pay full price for most games. A couple months ago I bought it for 10$ which is an excellent price, AND it is currently in my top 10 favorite games, and I knew it would be.
 
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