Confused about 720, 1080, ps3, and 360

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Kyo

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From what I read, games are usually programmed to be 720 and the 360 simply converts it to 1080 - while ps3 sticks with 720 but gives you the option to convert to 1080.

Can someone with more knowledge on this issue tell me if this is true and if the difference between the 720/1080 really matters in the end?
 
My understanding is that you would want to have 720p over 1080i, but 1080p is a minimal improvement over 720p unless you've got a LARGE HDTV.

Short answer: It doesnt matter.
 
Yes it is indeed true. Depending on the game, they may be programmed at 720 instead of 1080 in order to get better framerates. PS3 games thankfully don't lie as they list the native res of the game on the box. Meanwhile every single 360 game pretty much lies because although a game may be running and rendering in only 720, Microsoft simply lists the upscaled output on the back of the box as 1080. Kind of annoying how they jack the consumer around like that but as long as you are aware of the fact that 360 games aren't 1080 native necessarily, then all's good.
 
I can tell you as far as I know, the PS3 doesn't upconvert like the 360. I haven't found the option yet at least. The difference between the two resolutions is going to be different depending on the size of your screen. I have a 50" screen and I can tell a 1080p game and a 720p game. 40" and below, it would be pretty hard to tell a 720p from a 1080p without a very close look. It all really depends on your picture size. So yes, size matters.
 
[quote name='Nogib']Yes it is indeed true. Depending on the game, they may be programmed at 720 instead of 1080 in order to get better framerates. PS3 games thankfully don't lie as they list the native res of the game on the box. Meanwhile every single 360 game pretty much lies because although a game may be running and rendering in only 720, Microsoft simply lists the upscaled output on the back of the box as 1080. Kind of annoying how they jack the consumer around like that but as long as you are aware of the fact that 360 games aren't 1080 native necessarily, then all's good.[/quote]




This can't be true. At the very least, GTAIV PS3 is definitely upscaled and listed as 720p on the box. Other games are too. Both systems scam on upscaling.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']This can't be true. At the very least, GTAIV PS3 is definitely upscaled and listed as 720p on the box. Other games are too. Both systems scam on upscaling.[/quote]

No, the PS3 doesn't upscale. If you have a 1080 TV, then the TV will upscale a 720 signal to 1080.
 
[quote name='Kendal']I can tell you as far as I know, the PS3 doesn't upconvert like the 360. I haven't found the option yet at least. The difference between the two resolutions is going to be different depending on the size of your screen. I have a 50" screen and I can tell a 1080p game and a 720p game. 40" and below, it would be pretty hard to tell a 720p from a 1080p without a very close look. It all really depends on your picture size. So yes, size matters.[/quote]
I don't think Microsoft is lying about the native resolution, they're just listing the common TV resolutions you can play the game at.
 
OP why is this coming up? Are you buying one system based on its output, yet still dont know if there is a viewable difference between the two outputs? If so then why does it matter?
 
OP might have a 1080i TV and is worried about playing PS3 games on it since it doesn't upscale like the 360. A game programmed for 720p will be scaled down to 480p instead. It is the only reason I haven't bought a PS3 yet.
 
[quote name='Teh Nitwit']No, the PS3 doesn't upscale. If you have a 1080 TV, then the TV will upscale a 720 signal to 1080.[/quote]


ah, i got confused. I was thinking of games that are programmed at a sub-1280x720 res, but made to display at it.
 
[quote name='javeryh']OP might have a 1080i TV and is worried about playing PS3 games on it since it doesn't upscale like the 360. A game programmed for 720p will be scaled down to 480p instead. It is the only reason I haven't bought a PS3 yet.[/QUOTE]

? I had no idea.... Mine is playing in 720 on my older 42" 720P set.. Its been a while but cant you set the native resolution in the video output settings menu of the PS3 as to how you want it to handle these?

isnt his 1080i tv (or yours for that matter) capable of 720p?
 
I wish I saw this before I bought my first ever hdtv. Now I feel somewhat retarded,but its ok. I bought a 40 inch Samsung that is 1080p. After reading that about the size it isn't much of a difference according to that post which explains alot because I couldn't tell that big of a difference. I could haved saved some money, and got the 32 that did 720p, and 1080i. I don't think 300 dollars more is worth 8 inches, and 1080p...
 
[quote name='Snake2715']isnt his 1080i tv (or yours for that matter) capable of 720p?[/quote]

This is the problem. A LOT of HDTVs can do 480i/p and 1080i ONLY - no 720p (mine included). Since there is no scaler in the PS3, games that are programmed to output in 720p (without the option of 1080i) automatically scale down to 480p for display on these types of TVs. It is unbelievable that Sony hasn't addressed this issue (or that it is even an issue to begin with) since every other piece of electronics comes with internal scalers (360, cable box, etc.). CHECK IT OUT

This is the list of some of the games I want but would not be able to play in HD if I had a PS3:

- Little Big Planet
- MotorStorm: Pacific Rift
- Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds
- Resistance
- Heavenly Sword

It's kind of a big deal to those who are affected.
 
[quote name='javeryh']This is the problem. A LOT of HDTVs can do 480i/p and 1080i ONLY - no 720p (mine included). Since there is no scaler in the PS3, games that are programmed to output in 720p (without the option of 1080i) automatically scale down to 480p for display on these types of TVs. It is unbelievable that Sony hasn't addressed this issue (or that it is even an issue to begin with) since every other piece of electronics comes with internal scalers (360, cable box, etc.). CHECK IT OUT

This is the list of some of the games I want but would not be able to play in HD if I had a PS3:

- Little Big Planet
- MotorStorm: Pacific Rift
- Hot Shots Golf: Out of Bounds
- Resistance
- Heavenly Sword

It's kind of a big deal to those who are affected.[/QUOTE]

Wow I somehow missed that entire issue with the PS3. I see that a s a potential problem for those, and that sucks.

I was forgetting about this issue and kind of assumed any tv capable of 1080i was also capable of 720p, but thats not the case. You TV does not scale to 1080i then either with a 720p source?
 
I thought Heavenly Sword and Resistance did output to 1080i. They really don't? I've played on my friend's TV that can't output 720p/1080p. I noticed that it didn't look great, but I didn't realize it was outputting at 480i.
 
[quote name='Kaijufan']I don't think Microsoft is lying about the native resolution, they're just listing the common TV resolutions you can play the game at.[/quote]

Wha? I think you miss quoted. :D
 
Resistance in my mind is a very overrated game and is very plasticy looking. The cutscenes in heavenly sword on the other hand looked great on my TV.
 
[quote name='Snake2715']Resistance in my mind is a very overrated game and is very plasticy looking. The cutscenes in heavenly sword on the other hand looked great on my TV.[/quote]

And I'm assuming yours can output 720p/1080p?
 
[quote name='Kendal']I can tell you as far as I know, the PS3 doesn't upconvert like the 360. I haven't found the option yet at least. The difference between the two resolutions is going to be different depending on the size of your screen. I have a 50" screen and I can tell a 1080p game and a 720p game. 40" and below, it would be pretty hard to tell a 720p from a 1080p without a very close look. It all really depends on your picture size. So yes, size matters.[/quote]

You know... I've been hearing this over and over yet the bottom line is on my 28in. monitor that's 1080p capable I can CLEARLY see a difference on the same game (RSV2) between a 360 and PS3. PS3 literally looks like it's a PS2 game. When I have more free time I'll post screenshots of what I'm talking about.

Oh yeah... lets leave the Fanboyism out of this too. I'm going by what I clearly see.
 
Lets put this stupid topic to rest.

The 360 has a built in hardware scaler, and most games render at sub 720p resolutions.
The PS3 only has a vertical scaler in it, and everything has a correct horizontial pixel count.

The thing is that all Fixed-Panel Televisions always display all 1920x1080 pixels. No matter what signal you send to your TV, it is always upscaled by the TV to 1080p on a fixed panel.

Moral of the story 720p and 1080p only matter if you really look for it. Its not noticeable on most tv's if you sit farther then 8 feet away.
There is a chart out there that shows the difference in sizes to resolutions and viewing distance.
 
[quote name='Kendal']I can tell you as far as I know, the PS3 doesn't upconvert like the 360. I haven't found the option yet at least. The difference between the two resolutions is going to be different depending on the size of your screen. I have a 50" screen and I can tell a 1080p game and a 720p game. 40" and below, it would be pretty hard to tell a 720p from a 1080p without a very close look. It all really depends on your picture size. So yes, size matters.[/quote]
I have an older HDTV that can only do up to 1080i. If a game is in 720p the TV freaks out and I have to un-check that option in the PS3's display settings in order to see it properly. As far as I can tell the PS3 doesn't upconvert the resolution to 1080i if it's 720 otherwise my TV wouldn't freak out, right?
On the other hand my 360 upconverts the resolution fine if a game is in 720. My games look LOADS better on the 360. I was really bummed because Heavenly Sword and LittleBigPlanet don't look as good as Fable 2 on the same screen.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here they are unedited... Although it's definitely more understated than on the actual screen. Look at the V in Vegas. Both are at the same distance too.

360 D-sub

dscn0407qt8.jpg



PS3 HDMI

dscn0408tb3.jpg
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']Moral of the story 720p and 1080p only matter if you really look for it. Its not noticeable on most tv's if you sit farther then 8 feet away. There is a chart out there that shows the difference in sizes to resolutions and viewing distance.[/quote]

It matters if your TV can't display them!

[quote name='Nobi-Wan']My games look LOADS better on the 360. I was really bummed because Heavenly Sword and LittleBigPlanet don't look as good as Fable 2 on the same screen.[/quote]

That's because you are viewing Little Big Planet and Heavenly Sword in 480p.
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']Lets put this stupid topic to rest.

The 360 has a built in hardware scaler, and most games render at sub 720p resolutions.
The PS3 only has a vertical scaler in it, and everything has a correct horizontial pixel count.

The thing is that all Fixed-Panel Televisions always display all 1920x1080 pixels. No matter what signal you send to your TV, it is always upscaled by the TV to 1080p on a fixed panel.

Moral of the story 720p and 1080p only matter if you really look for it. Its not noticeable on most tv's if you sit farther then 8 feet away.
There is a chart out there that shows the difference in sizes to resolutions and viewing distance.[/quote]

Most games are under 720p on the 360? Really? Proof. Please. I know Halo 3 is 540p or whatever, but most? The moral of most of your post is you don't know what you are talking about.
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']Step 1: Buy New TV. Step 2: Enjoy.[/quote]

Perfect - why didn't I think of that before? :roll:
 
[quote name='Kendal']Most games are under 720p on the 360? Really? Proof. Please. I know Halo 3 is 540p or whatever, but most? The moral of most of your post is you don't know what you are talking about.[/quote]

The last number is the number of p's the native resolution has.

PLAYSTATION 3:
Army of Two = 1280x720 (no AA)
Assassin's Creed = 1280x720 (QAA)
Battlefield: Bad Company = 1280x720 (no AA)
Beijing 2008 = 1024x768 (no AA)
Beowulf = 1280x720 (no AA)
Burnout: Paradise = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Call of Duty 3 (screenshot) ~1088x624 (2xAA)
Call of Duty 4 = 1024x600 (2x AA)
Cars Mater-National = 1280x720 (QAA), 1920x1080 (QAA)
Conan (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
Condemned 2 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Conflict: Denied Ops = 1280x720 (no AA) or 960x1080
Dark Sector = 1152x640 (no AA)
Dead Space = 1280x720 (no AA)
Def Jam Icon (screenshot) = 1152x648 (no AA)
Devil May Cry 4 = 1280x720 (2xAA, temporal)
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion = 1280x720 (no AA)
FaceBreaker = 1280x720 (QAA), 960x1080
Fifa Street 3 = 1920x1080 (no AA)
Full Auto 2 (demo) = 1920x1080 (4x AA)
Fracture = 1152x648 (no AA)
Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 = 1280x720
Golden Compass = 1280x720 (no AA)
Grand Theft Auto IV = 1152x640 (no AA)
GT5 Prologue (demo) = 1080p mode is 1280x1080 (2xAA) in-game while the garage/pit/showrooms are 1920x1080 with no AA. 720p mode is 1280x720 (4xAA)
Guitar Hero 3 = 1040x585 (no AA)
Guitar Hero Aerosmith = 1040x585 (no AA)
Haze (demo) = 1024x576 (2xAA)
Heavenly Sword = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Incredible Hulk = 1280x720 (no AA), 960x1080 (no AA)
Jericho (demo) = 996x560 (2x AA)
Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights = 1280x720 (QAA)
Kung Fu Panda = 1280x720 (no AA), 960x1080 (no AA)
Lair = 800x1080 (2xAA) - AA buffers are merged to produce 1600x1080 for further scaling
LEGO: Indiana Jones = 1280x720 (no AA), 960x1080 (no AA)
Lost Planet = 1280x720 (temporal 2xAA)
Madden NFL '09 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance (screenshot) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames = 1280x720 (no AA)
Metal Gear Online (beta) = 1024x768 (2xAA, temporal)
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriot = 1024x768 (2xAA, temporal)
MLB08: The Show = 1280x720 (2xAA) - The rendering window is adjustable down to 576p without upscaling to 720p i.e. the frame has black borders
Motorstorm = 1280x720 (2xAA)
MX vs ATV (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
NBA07 (demo) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
NBA08 (demo) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
NBA Live '08 = 1280x720 (no AA)
NBA Street Home court (screenshot) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
NFL Tour = 1280x720 (no AA, poor framerate)
NHL '09 = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Ninja Gaiden: Sigma = 1280x720 (has weird scaling to support 1080p)
Overlord = 1280x720 (no AA)
Pirates des Caraibes (screenshot) = 768x1080 (no AA)
960x720 en mode 720p
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Quake Wars: Enemy Territory = 1280x720 (no AA)
Race Driver: GRID = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Ratchet & Clank: Tools of Destruction = 1280x704 (2xAA, centered on 720p output)
Resistance: Fall of Man = 1280x720 (QAA)
Ridge Racer 7 (demo) = 1920x1080 (no AA)
SEGA: Rally Revo = 1280x720 (4xAA, alpha blend)
SEGA: Superstars Tennis = 1280x720 (QAA, 30fps)
Skate = 1280x720 (no AA)
Soldier of Fortune: Payback = 1280x720 (no AA)
Soul Calibur IV = 1280x720 (no AA), 1280x576 in 1080p mode
The Darkness (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
The Bourne Conspiracy (demo) = 1280x720 (no AA)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour '09 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Tony Hawk's Project 8 = 1280x720
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
Top Spin 3 = 1280x720 (QAA)
Transformers (screenshot) = 960x1080 (no AA)
Turning Point: Fall of Liberty = 1280x720 (no AA)
Turok = 1280x720 (no AA)
Viking: Battle for Asgard = 960x720 (2xAA) - AA buffers are merged to a 1920x720 framebuffer, which is then downscaled to 1280x720
Virtua Fighter 5 (screenshot) = 1024x1024 (no AA)
1024x768 en mode 1080p
Virtua Tennis 3 (demo) = 1920x1080 (2x AA)
WWE 08 (screenshot) = ? 640x720 ? (2x AA) - les edges ont l'aparence du 1280x720 mais d'apres certain artefact il semble que ce soit le resultat de la fusion de 2 buffers MSAA 640x720
translation StefanS: "The edges give the impression of being 1280x720p, but because of a certain artifact it seems that it is the result of the fusion of 2 MSAA buffers of resolution 640x720"
UEFA Euro 2008 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Unreal Tournament III = 1280x720 (no AA)
World Series Of Poker 2008 = 1920x1080 (2xAA)

XBOX 360:
Alone in the Dark = 1040x600 (2xAA)
Army of Two = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Assassin's Creed = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Battlefield: Bad Company = 1280x720 (no AA)
Beijing 2008 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Beowulf = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Bioshock = 1280x720 (no AA)
Burnout: Paradise = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Call of Duty 3 (screenshot) = 1040x624 (2xAA)
Call of Duty 4 (screenshot) = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Cars Mater-National = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Conan (demo) = 1024x576 (no AA)
Condemned 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Conflict: Denied Ops (demo) = 1280x720p (2xAA)
Crash Time = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Dark Sector = 1280x720 (no AA)
Dead or Alive 4 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Dead Rising = 1280x720 ( up to 4xAA depending on frame rate)
Dead Space = 1280x720 (no AA)
Devil May Cry 4 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Don King Prizefighter = 1024x630 (2xAA)
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion = 1024x600 (2xAA) - Same for GOTY Edition!
F.E.A.R. = 1280x720 (2xAA)
FaceBreaker = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Fifa 2006 (demo) = 1024x576 (2xAA)
Fifa 2007 (demo) = 1200x675 (no AA)
Fifa Street 3 = 1920x1080 (4xAA)
Fracture = 1280x720 (no AA)
Forza 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA in-game, 4xAA replay & vehicle select)
Gears of War = 1280x720 (HD), 960x720 (SD) (2xAA on static objects?)
Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Golden Compass = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Grand Theft Auto IV = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Guitar Hero 3 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Guitar Hero Aerosmith = 1280x720 (no AA)
Halo 3 = 1152x640 (no AA)
Incredible Hulk = 1280x720 (full screen blur)
Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Kung Fu Panda = 1280x720 (no AA)
LEGO: Indiana Jones = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Lost Planet = 1280x720 (up to 4x MSAA dependent on framerate)
Madden NFL '09 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Mass Effect = 1280x720 (2xAA sometimes?)
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames = 1280x720 (no MSAA, but depth/Z-based edge blur?)
MotoGP 2006 (screenshot) = 1280x1024 (framebuffer grab from AVS Forum member)
MX vs ATV = 1280x720 (no AA)
NBA Live '08 = 1280x720 (4xAA)
NBA Street Home court (demo) = 1920x1080 (4xAA)
NCAA Football 08 (demo) = 1024x600 (2xAA)
NFL Tour = 1280x720 (4xAA, 60fps)
NHL '09 = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Ninja Gaiden 2 = 1120x585 (2xAA)
Overlord = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Perfect Dark Zero (demo) = 1152x640 (no AA)
Pro Evolution Soccer 6 (demo) = 1024x576 (2xAA)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Project Gotham Racing 3 (demo) = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Project Gotham Racing 4 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Quake 4 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Quake Wars: Enemy Territory = 1280x720 (2xAA + blur)
Race Driver: GRID = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Rainbow Six Vegas 2 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Ridge Racer 6 (demo) = 1440x810 (no AA)
SEGA: Rally Revo = 1280x720 (4xAA, alpha to coverage)
SEGA: Superstars Tennis = 1280x720 (2xAA, 30fps)
Skate = 1280x720 (2xAA ? )
Soldier of Fortune: Payback = 1280x720 (4xAA ?)
Soul Calibur IV = 1365x960 (no AA, software scaled to 720p)
Splinter Cell Double Agent = 1280x720 (4xAA) (developer)
The Club = 1280x720 (4xAA)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour '09 = 1280x720 (no AA)
Tomb Raider Legend = 1024x600 (2xAA)
Tony Hawk's Project 8 (screenshot) = 1040x585 (2xAA)
Tony Hawk's Proving Ground = 1280x720
Top Spin 3 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Turning Point: Fall of Liberty = 1280x720 (no AA)
Turok = 1280x720 (no AA)
UEFA Euro 2008 = 1280x720 (2xAA)
Unreal Tournament III = 1280x720 (no AA)
Virtua Fighter 5 (demo) = 1024x1024 (4xAA)
Virtua Tennis 3 (demo) = 1920x1080 (2xAA)

STOLEN FROM BEYOND3D!
 
[quote name='Snake2715']OP why is this coming up? Are you buying one system based on its output, yet still dont know if there is a viewable difference between the two outputs? If so then why does it matter?[/quote]
I have both 360 and PS3. And my tv can display 480, 720p, 1080i.

It's just that many ps3 games are at 720p while the 360 ports of it is up to 1080i which is why I'm somewhat confused.
 
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