Consoles Have Just Become Shitty PCs

Jodou

Infamous
Feedback
12 (100%)
[quote name='Jim Sterling']Last night, I quit playing Resistance 3 so I could download a firmware update so I could open the PlayStation Store so I could redeem an online pass so I could play Resistance 3.

As I consider what I did last night, I can’t help but wonder exactly when, where, how and why this became acceptable. I can’t quite work out at what point we, as consumers, decided this was okay. Because we do. We think it’s cool and we let it continue without raising our voices in the slightest. I’m just as bad as everybody else — still buying games for sixty dollars apiece, still putting online codes in like a good little puppet, no matter how damaging to the industry’s long-term success I think they are. I know online passes are bad. I know lengthy firmware updates are annoying. I know mandatory installations that can take over forty-five minutes are utterly inexcusable. Chances are good that you know as well. Yet we’re still swallowing it.

Still — Sony, Microsoft, and the publishers they deal with need to be commended. It is, after all, impressive that we have become so used to having our time wasted that the vast majority of us are starting to accept mandatory installs, online passes, and day-one patches as normal, acceptable, even banal concepts that simply come with the territory of being a gamer. That publishers have hoodwinked us into believing that took some damn talent. Some of us, in a phenomenon that resembles Stockholm Syndrome in a few alarming ways, have even begun to sympathize with the aggressors in this relationship — feeling sorry for companies when they spin a tale of woe concerning GameStop’s maliciously victimizing focus on secondhand sales. There are gamers who are thrilled that companies are “trying to make their games better” when an unfinished game is patched after launch to fix a litany of inexcusable bugs. We’ve become three types of gamers, now — the ones who complain but do nothing, the ones who actively embrace the problems as positives, and the greater number who just don’t give a shit anymore.

At least … that’s what we’re like on consoles.

It’s funny, but I used to think PC gamers had all the problems. What with games becoming obsolete upon the release of a new OS, the lack of extra support and new content that studios lavish on console games, and the ever-present problems with excessive digital rights management, I was once glad that I stuck to consoles. After all, with an Xbox 360 or PS3, you just pop in a disc and the game works, right? Sure, the graphics might not be on par and the deep customization options don’t exist, but at least we get right into a game — no fuss, no muss.

Thinking of that attitude as I come fresh off a forty-five minute Resistance 3 patch, I can’t help feeling like a little bit of a tool.

Hilariously, the gap between consoles and PCs has finally been bridged, but in totally the wrong way. Rather than catch up to the positive aspects of PC gaming, console developers/publishers have started competing for the negatives. From where I’m standing, the consoles are winning that miserable war, too. In the fight over who can have the most egregious updates, the shoddiest business practices, and the biggest “f**k yous” communicated to paying customers, it seems consoles may end this generation as the winners by a mile. Because, while DRM can be annoying and while lacking DLC isn’t cool, at least once I’ve downloaded a PC game, I can boot it up without trouble and patch it in seconds — often using patches that other gamers have made and shared to improve a game beyond even the original studio’s scope.

PC gaming has gotten more convenient. With a number of digital distributors, we can get games delivered to our machines at a cheaper cost, and with a number of tantalizingly, ridiculously cheap discounts that pop up with astounding regularity. Yes, there are problems with games that require permanent online connections, and there’s always the thorny issue of digital games taking our property away from us, but I can’t help feeling a lot more convenienced and f**king respected when I use something like Steam or Good Old Games. I don’t feel that same level of convenience when I try to play Xbox 360 and PS3 games anymore, and I certainly don’t feel like a valued customer.

So, I ask myself, what exactly is the benefit of console gaming anymore?

Well, I like using controllers for third-person games … except most PC games have controller options.

I like sitting back on a couch with my consoles hooked up to my big HDTV … except I can always hook a gaming rig into my HDTV and play it like a console.

I like online gaming … except PC games go online for free, and nearly every game has a burgeoning community unlike console games that usually get abandoned once the new Killzone/Gears of War is out.

I like … hmmm … well, I’m not sure anymore. I really don’t know why I persist, outside of some frail sense of tradition.

At the end of the day, as consoles become less about convenience and more about publishers protecting their profit from ghosts and boogeymen (for that is as much as I respect the “threat” of used sales), I cannot help but start to see the Xbox 360 and PS3 as less powerful, less flexible, increasingly less reliable computers. You have all the hassle of PC gaming, without the superior graphics, efficient digital distribution, cheaper prices and extended modification options.

I don’t have a solution for this, either. Like I said at the beginning, we’re all idiots for finding this bullshit acceptable. All I can do is point out the ludicrousness of the situation, to maybe encourage us to ask Sony, Microsoft, THQ, EA and all the others why we’re treated like cattle and why we should support them when they’ve made console gaming so unnecessarily aggravating. If nothing else, perhaps if enough of us start to realize that consoles are no better than computers, we might start supporting PC gaming more and sending the clear message that all the associated shit with the Xbox 360 and PS3 just isn’t good enough.

Because at the end of the day, if I’m going to have to suffer through patches and greedy publishers treating me like crap, I might as well get better graphics out of the deal.[/quote]Source

No I didn't need an article to be written to tell you this, as I've been saying it for years now. And I don't care if you hate Jim Sterling, cry more. What I did find interesting was this is from the perspective of a console gamer and not just another PC gamer like myself. He illustrates the exact conclusions I've come to from the other end of the spectrum, somewhat justifying my claims as not just a bias but reality. While it might sound like he's ready to convert to team PC, he laments the fact that he has no solution given his tears are a drop in the ocean.

So what do you think? Has PC/console gaming become a victim of technology and/or mainstream crowd?
 
I think PC gaming has become a victim of... something, but I'm not sure what it is. The rising cost of making games perhaps?

Look at the number of high profile PC exclusives nowadays versus 10 years ago. The number has plummeted (at least anecdotally, I'm not going to do the math to figure it out) while the number of games that hit consoles and PCs has skyrocketed.

Now personally I'm not really bothered by the situation as to me, the more people get to play games the better, but it is sad that some titles that would have been developed in an alternate timeline (one where PCs remained largely separate from consoles) haven't gotten made but really, there's a wealth of amazing games out there, old and new, on just about every console. I can't complain when every year, more games hit the console systems than I have time to play.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Look at the number of high profile PC exclusives nowadays versus 10 years ago. The number has plummeted (at least anecdotally, I'm not going to do the math to figure it out) while the number of games that hit consoles and PCs has skyrocketed.[/QUOTE]
That's probably a large chunk of the problem, since the migration of PC games to consoles brought the same problems. Before it was the opposite, where console games were extremely rare ports to PC and vice-versa so they each existed on their own isolated islands as it were.
 
Nice article, although I do not agree with it. Sterling makes a number of good points, but he isn't really painting the entire picture.

Sterling mentions that console gamers should not have to worry about downloading firmware updates for their systems or title updates for games. He is correct in that console gamers have traditionally not had to worry about these updates, but I argue that the only reason we have not seen this in the past is because of the lack of internet connectivity. Having a system tied to the internet allows hardware manufacturers to issue new, updated firmware to utilize the hardware more efficiently. It also allows game developers to squash any bugs or glitches that surface after a game's release. The PC enjoyed this capability all through the 90's, and it wasn't until 2002 when consoles really experienced the benefits of online capabilities when Microsoft launched Xbox Live, the first online component for consoles that required a broadband connection. Expecting companies to not utilize this ability to update their hardware/software is foolish and counterintuitive.

Sterling is also upset that he and other console gamers have to accept mandatory installs. Now I'm not sure whether Sterling realizes this or not, but being able to load the information to the harddrive is a benefit. If you run the game strictly off the disk, you will over heat your system because the ROM drive is always running. By installing the game to the harddrive, all the information is being pulled from a non-moving part, which works to eliminate over heating.

Finally, Sterling describes his displeasure with having to enter online codes or passes to play console games online. This business practice is relatively new and it is one way that game developers are trying to combat used game sales. Something that really is not an issue for PC games.

To sum up my thoughts, consoles have not just become shitty PCs, but rather, consoles are in an awkward growing phase, not unlike puberty, where they are working to implement features already found on the PC in a sometimes heavy-handed fashion. Sure it is unfortunate that you have to update your console and games, but it really is much easier on a console where all you need to do is press a button, where as on a PC updates can be a little more involved. Sure it may seem ironic that you need to install a game before you can play it even though you have a physical disc, but it is for the protection of the hardware. Sure it is a pain in the ass when you have to enter an online pass code in order to play a major component of a game, but these guys making the game just want to get paid.
 
@ Halo05 I think the biggest contributor to your observation of more quality games being released for consoles than PCs is the fact that consoles have a much greater market than PCs. Its nothing more than a smart business decision. Sell to the larger market, where there are more customers willing to purchase your product. Video games exist to make people money.
 
There are obviously pros and cons for both consoles and PC games. It might be a slight inconvenience if you're forced to update and install your console game, but the alternative would be more bugs and longer load times.

I do agree that consoles are starting to seem like less than stellar PCs, but I certainly don't feel like the console developers are sticking it to the consumers. Personally if I thought that console gaming was SO much of a hassle and PC gaming was SO much better, I would probably just stick with the PC. It just seems to me like this guy is really reaching to find something to complain about.
 
I don't understand why Jim uses the Playstation 3 and specifically Resistance 3 as the norm for console games. I have over 150+ games played on my 360 and never once did I have to manually install a game, wait 45mins for a patch, or enter in a code for online play access.

Also none of the problems with console gaming compare to that time in PC gaming when a new update for your favorite game comes out and it breaks the game on your system and you have to scourer the internet to find a fix. When you don't have much time to game that is far worst then online passes, 45 min patches(you can at least do other things while it patches), day- one patches, etc.
 
[quote name='Swift900']Sure it is unfortunate that you have to update your console and games, but it really is much easier on a console where all you need to do is press a button, where as on a PC updates can be a little more involved. Sure it may seem ironic that you need to install a game before you can play it even though you have a physical disc, but it is for the protection of the hardware. Sure it is a pain in the ass when you have to enter an online pass code in order to play a major component of a game, but these guys making the game just want to get paid.[/QUOTE]
Quite frankly, consoles are just playing catch-up to PCs now to solve like problems. Used sales are to consoles as piracy is to PC. These online passes are just glorified CD keys now that they have the capacity to facilitate such a system. Mandatory installs are just a telling sign that developers view consoles as PCs and are taking advantage of that. Patches have become a crutch sadly, and PCs have had to deal with this for years. The release now, fix later is common practice (e.g. Dead Island) and I think this in particular is what is sending console gamers over the edge.

There used to be faith in console games that what you bought was the final product. Now that constant patches and updates roll out for games (and especially day one patches), it has become an annoyance. There's no longer that confidence of not having to deal with bug fixes, etc. This is a brand new concept to this gen of consoles, which is why I think Jim is raging.
 
[quote name='Swift900'] By installing the game to the harddrive, all the information is being pulled from a non-moving part, which works to eliminate over heating.[/QUOTE]


Since when were HDDs non-moving parts...you do know what RPM stands for right?

While I moved to console gaming years ago to escape the buggy games and the constantly outdated hardware, consoles have become just as buggy, have non of the flexability of PCs, but do only require one entry fee, in the long run the games suffer due to having outdated hardware on day 1 of the console release.

I'm wondering if we'll see upgradable cpus and ram in the next gen consoles. It would benefit Sony and Microsoft from having to redevelop new hardware every 6 or so years, and games good age along with the system.
 
[quote name='Halo05']I think PC gaming has become a victim of... something, but I'm not sure what it is. [/QUOTE]

Piracy.
 
i agree with the article.

it's not a PC gaming vs. console gaming debate. it's a fact that console gaming is adopting a lot of the crap on PC that sucks (and also doing a lot of pc things horribly) and is losing the cool thing about consoles that made them consoles.

[quote name='Swift900']Sterling mentions that console gamers should not have to worry about downloading firmware updates for their systems or title updates for games. He is correct in that console gamers have traditionally not had to worry about these updates, but I argue that the only reason we have not seen this in the past is because of the lack of internet connectivity. Having a system tied to the internet allows hardware manufacturers to issue new, updated firmware to utilize the hardware more efficiently. It also allows game developers to squash any bugs or glitches that surface after a game's release. The PC enjoyed this capability all through the 90's, and it wasn't until 2002 when consoles really experienced the benefits of online capabilities when Microsoft launched Xbox Live, the first online component for consoles that required a broadband connection. Expecting companies to not utilize this ability to update their hardware/software is foolish and counterintuitive.[/quote]
when games came out for consoles, they were done. when games like bc3k come out for PC, they're bug riddled pieces of crap that need patches upon patches to work.

now consoles also have to deal with patches and game breaking bugs! i'm not sure if it's because games are more complex, or because they're just being lazy and want to rush it out (though i'm guessing it's the former.) but that was the cool thing about console. you buy a game and it's done, bugs and all, yet nothing severely game breaking. (off the top of my head i can only think of lufia 2.)

when you hooked up your ps2 to the internet, you got to play socom for free! yay!
now you have to pay for some online pass? wtf.

i wouldn't be surprised if DRM starts showing up on consoles either. the online pass makes it almost halfway there.
 
New Vegas on 360 crashed on me at least 10 times throughout my ~50 hr playthrough. Shit was infuriating. So yeah, I do get the gist of what's going on.
 
@ Jodou and Kainzero I agree with both of you in that consoles are playing catch-up to the PC.

Regarding video game bugs and patching: I think one of the main reason games (PC or not) are released with bugs comes down to hitting a release. You guys cannot forget that video games are a business. Video game publishers plan out sales forecasts and other metrics that stock holders can look to when making investing decisions. These publishing companies have to put out product on a timely basis that will generate revenue, and so they hold developers to a specific release date. If games miss their release date, the publishing company does not make money, and when the company fails to make money, investors pull out. Unfortunately, quality control is one of the final steps in the game making process.

[quote name='kainzero']when you hooked up your ps2 to the internet, you got to play socom for free! yay!
now you have to pay for some online pass? wtf.

i wouldn't be surprised if DRM starts showing up on consoles either. the online pass makes it almost halfway there.[/QUOTE]

I think you are mistaken. When buying a console game new, you have the online pass included with the game. The online pass is generally a one-time use code that enables online play. Therefore, for anyone buying the game used, if they wish to play online, then they have to fork over an additional $10 to unlock the online component of the game. It is essentially an attempt to curb used games sales and/or earn something from those games that are resold.

I feel that is also important to point out that not all games implement this tactic. It is just a growing trend in the industry.
 
[quote name='62t']Piracy.[/QUOTE]

Actually, that's not entirely true. Publishers (and some developers) put DRM in to their product because they believe that statistics have shown that they profit more from DRM infested games than those with zero DRM (Which of course is due to piracy). I call bullshit on either lopsided statistics or those DRM developers really know how to market their shit to naive people that run said publishers.

I'm looking at you Ubisoft. fuck you and your shit.



I'm also tired of seeing stupid shit in games such as skins being sold at some stupidly absurd premium price. The difficulty of them churning something like that out a vast majority of the time is incredibly simple. Gears of War 3, I'm looking at you. Then I turn around and glare at all those idiots that spent a bunch of money on it as they're fueling the fire.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Swift900']@ Jodou and Kainzero I agree with both of you in that consoles are playing catch-up to the PC. [/quote]
No, that's not what I said.
If anything, it's reverse catch-up. Consoles are catching up to the crappy part of PCs.
Regarding video game bugs and patching: I think one of the main reason games (PC or not) are released with bugs comes down to hitting a release. You guys cannot forget that video games are a business. Video game publishers plan out sales forecasts and other metrics that stock holders can look to when making investing decisions. These publishing companies have to put out product on a timely basis that will generate revenue, and so they hold developers to a specific release date. If games miss their release date, the publishing company does not make money, and when the company fails to make money, investors pull out. Unfortunately, quality control is one of the final steps in the game making process.
Of course I know that video games are a business.
But why do I have to buy a piece of crap under the promise that they will improve it later, especially when they KNOW the bugs exist? Do you buy a car that might break down in 5000 miles with promises that they MIGHT fix it? Surely the automotive industry is a business too!
Being a business doesn't excuse the fact that they're intentionally releasing a half-assed product. (Apparently what does excuse it is the fact that people will buy it anyway.)
 
IMHO, much ado about nothing.

PCs are way more annoying, I got a nasty virus on my PC the other day and it took half a day of my weekend to remove.

Wow so a game takes 20 min to install or crashes every other month BFD.
 
[quote name='kainzero']Of course I know that video games are a business.
But why do I have to buy a piece of crap under the promise that they will improve it later, especially when they KNOW the bugs exist?[/QUOTE]

You don't ever have to buy anything, and as far as I know, video game developers make no promise to fix bugs post launch. It's just something that happens because bugs do come up, and if they hinder gameplay, then it is in the developers' best interests to squash them so people continue to buy the game.

[quote name='kainzero']Do you buy a car that might break down in 5000 miles with promises that they MIGHT fix it? Surely the automotive industry is a business too!
Being a business doesn't excuse the fact that they're intentionally releasing a half-assed product. (Apparently what does excuse it is the fact that people will buy it anyway.)[/QUOTE]

It is not like video game developers are lazy. They are worked to the bone. They are trying to make the best product that they can within the time restraints imposed on them by the video game publisher. It's like being forced to take an exam with 100 questions and being expected to finish in 5 minutes. You're not going to get it done, so do what you can with what you've got.
 
[quote name='camoor']IMHO, much ado about nothing.

PCs are way more annoying, I got a nasty virus on my PC the other day and it took half a day of my weekend to remove.

Wow so a game takes 20 min to install or crashes every other month BFD.[/QUOTE]

I don't really think this is a huge deal either, but I can definitely say I won't be buying another console next go around, after finally building my own PC for the first time in a few years, I have to say the value of a PC is much better then a console overall. How are people still getting viruses, I haven't had one for the longest time now.
 
[quote name='docvinh']I don't really think this is a huge deal either, but I can definitely say I won't be buying another console next go around, after finally building my own PC for the first time in a few years, I have to say the value of a PC is much better then a console overall. How are people still getting viruses, I haven't had one for the longest time now.[/QUOTE]

Yeah - but you built a PC, and I'd be interested to know how much it cost.

I like coming home, opening the box, plugging in the console, doing an update and voila you're there.
 
I still prefer consoles for ease of use. That and my friends *all* have 360s, and from what they've told me they are buying the next box at launch, so It's not like I have much choice unless I want to abandon all my friends.

PC gaming exclusivity outside of social network games (lol) and the Blizzard title (Starcraft 2, Diablo 3) has been pretty much non-existant which doesn't help matter in the PC's favor.
 
Gaming on consoles is like buying a sports car but you decided on the stock tires and automatic shifting. It gets the job done, but it just isnt really what a fan of a sports car should settle with.

PC gaming is that car enthusiast that bought the high grip tires, chipped the car and added a little something under the hood. Just like those kind of car people that wash their own car by hand, PC gamers tweak and clean their PC religiously, or they soon learn to do so.

You have your PC gamers that function very well on a budget and you have those that can splurge on everything, just because they can. It is true, consoles are cheap shitty PC that can only do so little.
 
All I can say is this generation has been the most fun I've had gaming since the 16 bit era and I wish I had all the free time I had back then to play all the great games out there currently!

There are somethings I don't like with online passes, buggy games that get patched after launch, nickel and diming with DLC in some games etc.

I was never into PC gaming. PC=work to me so I just never had any interest in sitting at a PC and gaming so I never got into it. Thus I've never had any interest in hooking up a PC to my bigscreen etc. either. Also hate keyboard and mouse controls, so I'd just end up playing with a gamepad anyway. Given all that, might as well just stick with consoles.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='camoor']Yeah - but you built a PC, and I'd be interested to know how much it cost.

I like coming home, opening the box, plugging in the console, doing an update and voila you're there.[/QUOTE]

But you can use a PC for just more than gaming. Just look at you now. You probably just typed this up with a computer.

You can literally build an amazing gaming rig for about $500, whose video you can output right to your 1080p HDTV, that'll be able to play the newest games for the next five years without hassle. Furthermore, once you've built your own rig, it's only another $200 to update your rig to the current generation with a new video card five years from now.

You can also use your 360 controller with a lot of the more prominent games today like Dues Ex, Dead Island, and Bastion.

And apart from that, the pricing is unbeatable. You'll end up spending at least three times as much for even the cheapest of console games due to digital distribution on the PC. In the end those costs really add up.

Just look at this weekend's Steam sale:

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/11661/

That's 79 games for 79.99$. Regardless of whether you want any of those games, that pricing is unheard of in actual retail outlets. When is the last time Gamestop dropped their price by 86% for anything? Virtua Tennis 4 alone costs $49.99 for the 360 at Gamestop. And that's just this weekend. Steam, along with Good Old Games, GamersGate, and others, have insane deals going on at all that times that I'm frankly not that interested in buying anything on a console anymore apart from the exclusives (Uncharted 3).

Even getting a $20 credit on a $59.99 purchase for a six hour game is too much for me now. I'd rather wait a couple of months and see the price drop by 50% on Steam and work through my backlog in the mean time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
as a PC gamer in the past, i have to say that console gaming is more enjoyable for me since i have a big TV and i dont have to worry about hardwares.

but at the end of the day, in terms of quality? PC beats consoles baby.

plus they get MMORPGs nah mean?
 
[quote name='giantqtipz']as a PC gamer in the past, i have to say that console gaming is more enjoyable for me since i have a big TV and i dont have to worry about hardwares.

but at the end of the day, in terms of quality? PC beats consoles baby.

plus they get MMORPGs nah mean?[/QUOTE]

I just want to point out that people CAN connect their PCs to their HDTVs. My friend plays his games on his 1080p 32 inch Sony Bravia using a regular HDMI cable.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Ansé Solis']You can literally build an amazing gaming rig for about $500[/QUOTE]


I haven't looked at building a new computer in a long time because mine is still doing it's job even though I built it in 2004, but can you really build an "amazing" one from scratch for under $500 or are you doing what a lot of PC Gamers love to do and forgetting to add in the "if you reuse your current case, power supply, hard drive, mouse, and keyboard" at the end of that statement?
 
[quote name='blindinglights']I haven't looked at building a new computer in a long time because mine is still doing it's job even though I built it in 2004, but can you really build an "amazing" one from scratch for under $500 or are you doing what a lot of PC Gamers love to do and forgetting to add in the "if you reuse your current case, power supply, hard drive, mouse, and keyboard" at the end of that statement?[/QUOTE]

I'll build one right now.

Slickdeals is your friend BTW.
 
[quote name='camoor']Yeah - but you built a PC, and I'd be interested to know how much it cost.

I like coming home, opening the box, plugging in the console, doing an update and voila you're there.[/QUOTE]
There are plenty of PC gamers like that as well that enjoy the instant gratification of turning on a pre-built computer. The problem there is these are not designed or regulated to build a fanbase like consoles do, thus the price is outrageous. The misconception that PC gaming costs too much stems here and the notion of building a PC scares people away. But how do you market an affordable pre-built PC to the masses?

You sell a console.
 
[quote name='blindinglights']I haven't looked at building a new computer in a long time because mine is still doing it's job even though I built it in 2004, but can you really build an "amazing" one from scratch for under $500 or are you doing what a lot of PC Gamers love to do and forgetting to add in the "if you reuse your current case, power supply, hard drive, mouse, and keyboard" at the end of that statement?[/QUOTE]

Personally, I don't consider the mouse and keyboard as necessarily part of the PC since you don't build those parts. But whatever, I've kept those in for you. Furthermore, I specifically said for "about $500" and not "under $500".

SIiom.png

BUILD: $582.85 (after rebates)

This build includes an SSD, which is a luxury and you are free to take out to get the price down to $542.86.

Furthermore, this isn't an optimal build as I used Newegg to make my point. Microcenter, recently had a deal (where they sold a 100$ processor with a $50 gift card. My friend took advantage of that deal and used the gift card to get a free new case.

Proof of deal: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3332400

If you were to get a similar deal, you would be able to take out the cost of the case from this particular build and get it down to $492.86 without the SSD, and 532.86$, with the SSD. These kind of deals go on with the majority of the other parts as well, and you can definitely get this particular build to cost somewhere around $450-475 if you keep an eye out for sales.

I rest my case.
 
Many PC gamers include PC builders. However, gamers like me, who have no tech knowledge at all, would have to spend far more than $500 to have someone build a computer for me or purchase one myself. Learning how to build one will take far longer than that 45 minutes. I think viruses are a realistic problem for most computer users because identifying what should be DLed and not be DLed, as well as making sure computer virus programs are up to date and effective, is not as easy as it sounds to the common person.

Either way, the console works for me. PS3 has many annoying features, but I have never waited longer than 10 minutes to DL anything on the Xbox 360, and that was always DLC like Map Packs and whatnot. I will buy the next generation of consoles. The 360 has been good to me.
 
[quote name='camoor']Yeah - but you built a PC, and I'd be interested to know how much it cost.

I like coming home, opening the box, plugging in the console, doing an update and voila you're there.[/QUOTE]

My personal pc cost a lot, but I had a friend build one for around 400 bucks. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but I can see where the guy is coming from.
 
[quote name='Retom7']Many PC gamers include PC builders. However, gamers like me, who have no tech knowledge at all, would have to spend far more than $500 to have someone build a computer for me or purchase one myself. Learning how to build one will take far longer than that 45 minutes. [/QUOTE]

It will actually take you almost exactly 45 minutes to learn how to build a PC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls&feature=relmfu
 
[quote name='camoor']IMHO, much ado about nothing.

PCs are way more annoying, I got a nasty virus on my PC the other day and it took half a day of my weekend to remove. [/QUOTE]

Stop going to porn sites, stop clicking on crap you shouldn't click on, and don't open e-mails that link you to sites you don't know. You'll be your own very best anti-virus software.

Once you've gotten a virus, reformat your PC. Your system is fucked until you do.
 
PS3 is the only one I see forcing these multiple hundred megabyte patches down the pipe.

Sounds like Jim just getting worked up over something.

I still prefer playing on consoles just for the ease of use. Some games are nicer on PC though.

At the end of the day many of the franchises I like just simply aren't on PC. And I don't care one bit about Steam achievements or friends. Because none of my friends play on steam.
 
PC Screenshot Porn -

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit
Final Fantasy XII
Darksiders
Borderlands
Mirrors Edge
Deus EX (ENB mod)
Space Marine
Hard Reset

nfs112011-08-1421-28-1rjgm.png

pcsx2-r48662011-08-1301evc.png

darksiderspc_2011_08_1eosk.png

borderlands2011-08-070s8bz.jpg

mirrorsedge2011-08-090qc2z.png

dxhr9pvpf.jpg

2011-09-13_000124u2e.jpg

hardreset.exe_2011-09-6rnd.png
 
[quote name='Jodou']There are plenty of PC gamers like that as well that enjoy the instant gratification of turning on a pre-built computer. The problem there is these are not designed or regulated to build a fanbase like consoles do, thus the price is outrageous. The misconception that PC gaming costs too much stems here and the notion of building a PC scares people away. But how do you market an affordable pre-built PC to the masses?

You sell a console.[/QUOTE]

Jodou, you just reminded me of an article that I read on Kotaku, which is essentially the anti-thesis of the Sterling article. I'll copy a portion of it below, but I highly encourage all of you to check it out. The article is inspired by Razr's laptop-in-development, the Blade.

I Can’t Believe It: The Razer Blade Might Not Just Be the Future of PC Gaming—It May Be the Future of PCs

[quote name='Joel Johnson, Kotaku']But here's something that PC gamers don't want to hear (and I say this as an owner of a shit-hot gaming tower of my own): PC gaming hardware is approaching a dead end.

PCs aren't going to die, but they are fast on their way to a niche industry. And it's not smartphones and iPads that are killing them—it's the lack of systemic innovation in the PC hardware space itself.

Look, it's not the ‘90s anymore. There aren't dozens of companies making PC hardware anymore, especially the sort that gamers need with real graphics horsepower. There are three: Intel, Nvidia, and AMD.

And really, if you want to get right down to it, there's just Intel. They're the only company with the capital, resources, and engineering prowess to move forward in the industry. (Nvidia may get there if their mobile Tegra platform finds customers in smartphones and tablets; they could use the revenue.)

But for years, Intel has been operating as a company fearful of accusations of monopoly, even though they largely have had no real threatening competition. But oops, here comes Apple using lovely mobile hardware that is fast approaching Good Enough status for even "real" computing in their mobile hardware.

Guess what? In another generation or two, those iPhone chips are going to be fast enough to power a decent laptop. It won't be long before the MacBook Air and the iPad meet in the middle, not just in interface, but in hardware.

So where does that leave the PC hardware world? HP just bailed on PC hardware. Dell's a rounding error for mid-sized corporate bulk computers. Apple's moving through the consumer space like crazy, becoming the laptop of choice for not just students and creatives, but everyone but PC gamers.

What PC gaming needs are platforms. I know many of you gamers out there don't want to see it—the varied choice and the ability to customize your hardware is part of why you love PC gaming. (And Android phones, I'm sure.) But it's holding back one of the things that made PC gaming so wonderful for years: raw power.

Why do Xbox games running on six-year-old hardware look nearly as good as a modern PC games? Don't quibble with me about resolution, texture quality, etc. You'd be missing the forest for the trees. Console games look close enough to PC games, despite PC gaming hardware being ten times as computationally powerful.

Don't believe me? Ask id Software's John Carmack, who just a few weeks ago noted that one of his hopes for PC hardware was more standardization within the platforms, so that the sort of low-level programming that really lets games and other software access the full power being held back by two decades worth of operating system compatibility layers, drivers, and all the cruft that's accreted around PC hardware in a valiant but ultimately retrograde attempt to allow companies of various size to play in the game.

You can't put a Ford engine in a Toyota. (Well, not easily.) Why should you be able to put an AMD video card in an Intel computer? Choice, you say. Fine. But if my choice is holding back the potential of my hardware, I'd rather take the losing companies out behind the barn and shoot them.

It's time to buck and realize that the Apple model of hardware isn't just one way to do it—it's the way hardware has to go to move forward. There will still be competition, but the competition is between platforms, not within the platforms itself.[/quote]
 
That article focuses on mobile gaming and I don't see the Razer as a pinnacle to PC gaming, just expensive technology. They hinge their entire argument on mobile phone chips one day being as powerful as CPUs of today. Well, duh? The limiting factor has always been size (read: heat) and I don't know that we'll ever meet in the middle in terms of size:FPS. What I do know is as long as there is demand, a supplier will exist.
 
[quote name='Ansé Solis']Personally, I don't consider the mouse and keyboard as necessarily part of the PC since you don't build those parts. But whatever, I've kept those in for you. Furthermore, I specifically said for "about $500" and not "under $500".

SIiom.png

BUILD: $582.85 (after rebates)

This build includes an SSD, which is a luxury and you are free to take out to get the price down to $542.86.

Furthermore, this isn't an optimal build as I used Newegg to make my point. Microcenter, recently had a deal (where they sold a 100$ processor with a $50 gift card. My friend took advantage of that deal and used the gift card to get a free new case.

Proof of deal: http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3332400

If you were to get a similar deal, you would be able to take out the cost of the case from this particular build and get it down to $492.86 without the SSD, and 532.86$, with the SSD. These kind of deals go on with the majority of the other parts as well, and you can definitely get this particular build to cost somewhere around $450-475 if you keep an eye out for sales.

I rest my case.[/QUOTE]


You didn't include the price of Windows 7. Even if you were only going to play games, you still need an OS ;).

The only point I was trying to make is a lot of PC gamers love to throw around statements like "oh you can make this awesome gaming computer for $500", but there's often a lot of recycling of parts or neglecting other costs in statements like that. You even made the comment that you don't really count a keyboard and mouse, yet you definitely need one and I doubt someone would really want the dirt cheap sub keyboard and mouse you used for gaming. Unless of course they were going to use an Xbox 360 controller, but that is another cost as well.

For a person just trying to get into PC gaming for the first time ever, those statements really don't hold true. Some might make the argument that everyone has a computer and can reuse something, but what if the person trying to get into gaming has a laptop or a much older computer that really has nothing worth reusing.
 
[quote name='Ansé Solis']PC Screenshot Porn -

Need For Speed Hot Pursuit
Final Fantasy XII
Darksiders
Borderlands
Mirrors Edge
Deus EX (ENB mod)
Space Marine
Hard Reset

nfs112011-08-1421-28-1rjgm.png

pcsx2-r48662011-08-1301evc.png

darksiderspc_2011_08_1eosk.png

borderlands2011-08-070s8bz.jpg

mirrorsedge2011-08-090qc2z.png

dxhr9pvpf.jpg

2011-09-13_000124u2e.jpg

hardreset.exe_2011-09-6rnd.png
[/QUOTE]

lol, somebody's got an agenda.

those look nice and all but using emulators as proof of PC superiority is always funny to me. You can't play FF12 legally on your PC. Of course unless you have a means by which to dump the BIOS of your own PS2, and you didn't just download a BIOS on the internet.

I don't think anybody's disputing that games can look better on PC, but a lot of people simply don't care. They have a box under their TV that plays the games they want to play.
 
[quote name='jer7583']lol, somebody's got an agenda.

those look nice and all but using emulators as proof of PC superiority is always funny to me. You can't play FF12 legally on your PC. Of course unless you have a means by which to dump the BIOS of your own PS2, and you didn't just download a BIOS on the internet.

I don't think anybody's disputing that games can look better on PC, but a lot of people simply don't care. They have a box under their TV that plays the games they want to play.[/QUOTE]

Posting graphics shows no less of an agenda than posting prices of PC parts. It only becomes an agenda when things like screen shots become specifically comparable to that of whatever system you own.

Furthermore, are you suggesting that any examples of what PCs can do should be ignored in the argument of how a PC stacks against a console? Remember that a PC can do many things while a console can only do one. The fact remains that this is a simple but effective illustration of how comparable graphics would look on a PC vs. a console.

To play a game on a PC in this day and age is far easier than it has been in the history of the platform.

Installation? Steam takes care of that for you.

Game Updates? Also taken care of. All you have to do is double-click and begin playing.

Prices? Cheapest of every other platform there is - short of mobile.

Graphics? Easily the best.
 
Why not just include that PCs are super easier to pirate so the games are all free and that's so much better than consoles! wow!

I think people just make their own minds up on what systems to play what on. As long as it isn't a smartphone or facebook, I think it's awesome.
 
[quote name='blindinglights']You didn't include the price of Windows 7. Even if you were only going to play games, you still need an OS ;).[/quote]

Fair enough.

The only point I was trying to make is a lot of PC gamers love to throw around statements like "oh you can make this awesome gaming computer for $500", but there's often a lot of recycling of parts or neglecting other costs in statements like that. You even made the comment that you don't really count a keyboard and mouse, yet you definitely need one and I doubt someone would really want the dirt cheap sub keyboard and mouse you used for gaming. Unless of course they were going to use an Xbox 360 controller, but that is another cost as well.

For a person just trying to get into PC gaming for the first time ever, those statements really don't hold true. Some might make the argument that everyone has a computer and can reuse something, but what if the person trying to get into gaming has a laptop or a much older computer that really has nothing worth reusing.

Are you blind?

I didn't reuse a single part to come out to the price I did.

[quote name='jer7583']Why not just include that PCs are super easier to pirate so the games are all free and that's so much better than consoles! wow!

I think people just make their own minds up on what systems to play what on. As long as it isn't a smartphone or facebook, I think it's awesome.[/QUOTE]

Because you don't have to pirate Final Fantasy XII to play on PC or did you throw out your brain with the rest of the trash last week?

If you need me to prove this simple fact to you, I can bust out any game from my PS2 collection to prove to you that I don't need to pirate it to play it on my PC.
 
[quote name='jer7583']Why not just include that PCs are super easier to pirate so the games are all free and that's so much better than consoles! wow!

I think people just make their own minds up on what systems to play what on. As long as it isn't a smartphone or facebook, I think it's awesome.[/QUOTE]

Because you don't have to pirate Final Fantasy XII on PC or did you throw out your brain with the rest of the trash last week?

If you need me to prove this simple fact to you, I can bust out any game from my PS2 collection to prove to you that I don't need to pirate it to play it on my PC.
 
You didn't need to pirate FFXII but you did pirate the PS2 BIOS which is copyrighted by Sony. Unless you have a means to dump the BIOS from an actual PS2.

http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Official-English-PCSX2-configuration-guide-v0-9-7#Bios
Note that the only LEGAL way of obtaining a bios is dumping it from your OWN Playstation 2 console.DO NOT ask where to get the bios in the PCSX2 forum, because it's against the rules. That's because the ps2 BIOS is a copyrighted material of Sony and that makes its' distribution illegal, meaning we could get in trouble if it was found out that we were supplying people illegally with bios files.
 
[quote name='jer7583']You didn't need to pirate FFXII but you did pirate the PS2 BIOS which is copyrighted by Sony. Unless you have a means to dump the BIOS from an actual PS2.

http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Official-English-PCSX2-configuration-guide-v0-9-7#Bios[/QUOTE]

Well I can live with downloading the BIOS since I already bought a PS2.

If that doesn't let you sleep at night, I have some Lunesta I can throw at your face like loose change.

Pics or it didn't happen?
 
I'm going to bid this thread farewell, as I've said all I really care to say on the subject. However, I just want to caution many of the commenters here that you are missing the point of this thread altogether. It's not about which is superior the PC or the console, but rather whether or not consoles are turning into gaming PCs.

The answer a resounding yes. Now proclaiming that consoles are turning into shitty PCs is absurd and entirely overstated. Console manufacturers and video game companies that make video games for consoles experience unique challenges that are not common in PCs. These companies are just doing their best to address and overcome these challenges, which some people (Mr. Sterling included) find to be annoying or untraditional. Be that as it may, the solutions that these companies are rolling out have a purpose - one not being to annoy their customers. In my opinion a lot of the problems have to do with dealing with a physical product (e.g., dvd and blu ray), but I digress.

I really encourage a lot of you to read these articles analytically with an open mind and comment accordingly.
 
bread's done
Back
Top