(DEAD) "Oreimo" Limited Edition DVD Set: SOLD OUT!!!

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Update 12/5: According to Aniplex's official "Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai" Facebook page, all online vendors are now SOLD OUT of the "Oreimo" Limited Edition DVD sets. However, there's still one used copy available on Amazon.com HERE for a relatively reasonable "Out of Print" price of $94. If you missed out and wanted to get a copy, grab it before it's gone!

For reviews of this DVD set, check out Fandom Post's review HERE and Anime News Network HERE
 
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-DVD only
-No dub
-No Japanese commentary
-Sold as limited edition with no standard edition
-Only 16 episodes long, yet has a $65 price tag

I agree with B:L. fuck Aniplex.
 
Haha...I should have figured that my Cheap Ass Gamer comrades would despise Aniplex's practice of taking advantage of anime fans by setting borderline-unreasonable high prices on their DVD sets :p. Still, I wanted to share this bit of information just in case there's somebody on the forums who plans to buy this Limited Edition set of one of my favorite shows before it's too late
 
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Aniplex: "We don't know how to properly monetize our IP so we rape and pillage our customers. It's all that anime piracy's fault." Yea....it's stuff like this that causes it. If you can get seasons of a TV show that is generally more costly to produce for less $ / episode than an anime generally goes for, then your business model is broken. I don't understand how these guys think. Funimation is probably the only shop that tries to use an intelligent business model. It's not great, but compared to Aniplex and Bandai? It's a shining star.
 
[quote name='Razzuel']Sigh. Really classy, guys. Really classy.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how one is supposed to react to a Sony company in which their outdated business model with outrageous prices for low quality releases are restricting public access to works that you and I enjoy.
 
agreed, Aniplex is ridiculous. I wouldn't pay those types of prices back in the expensive days of anime what makes them think I'll pay for it now??? seriously, especially with how inexpensive anime has become they stick out like a sore thumb. then wonder why no one's buying their stuff
 
So what if it's $60. Brink was $60. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. But also remember that you shouldn't watch it illegally either.

It's a niche market. You can't compare this to a Fox show with 10 million viewers.

Plus, I'm more annoyed about Madoka, but it's actually still cheaper than importing it.
 
[quote name='B:L']I don't know how one is supposed to react to a Sony company in which their outdated business model with outrageous prices for low quality releases are restricting public access to works that you and I enjoy.[/QUOTE]

$60 for Oreimo is not outrageous; it's even cheaper than their other releases, if we're counting by episodes. It's also in-line with other premium releases by other publishers like NISA, Funimation, and Sentai; it's priced according to the current market standards.

Also, how is Oreimo a low quality release? Have you even seen what it comes with?

ItemDescription

Also, in regard to not having a Blu-ray version, an English dub, or the commentaries, it's because they would lose money if they did those. This show, as much as you like it, isn't a show that would sell very well here, and they don't want to risk hurting their Japanese sales (the primary market) — the final Blu-ray volume only came out a couple of months ago in Japan.

Am I disappointed it's not on Blu-ray? Yeah, but I'd rather own the show than not own the show, so I bought it. Maybe if they waited a year or two, they could have released it on Blu-ray, but by then, there's going to be even less interest in the show than there is now, a year after it aired. Releasing this limited edition was the most profitable decision for them right now, as they see it.

Could there be a standard release later? Maybe, but who knows. You can't assume either way. That's the risk you have to take.
 
[quote name='starkillr']Aniplex: "We don't know how to properly monetize our IP so we rape and pillage our customers. It's all that anime piracy's fault." Yea....it's stuff like this that causes it. If you can get seasons of a TV show that is generally more costly to produce for less $ / episode than an anime generally goes for, then your business model is broken. I don't understand how these guys think. Funimation is probably the only shop that tries to use an intelligent business model. It's not great, but compared to Aniplex and Bandai? It's a shining star.[/QUOTE]
Hell, look at how FUNi handled the Dragon Boxes.

Japan had to pay $1k for each of the two Dragon Ball Z Dragon Boxes. Whereas we got the exact same versions, minus the TV specials and on-disc extras, for relatively $500. That's assuming you paid retail price for all seven sets. That's not even factoring in how many times these sets have been on sale, which have been between $20 to $31 a set. Not to mention, Toei is not a cheap company to work with in terms of acquiring licenses to these things.

Aniplex is releasing their own works. The primary problem is they're applying the same rules here that Japanese companies do with anime over there. Look how they're handling the US release of Madoka - 3 part releases, for $40 BD, $30 DVD. The series is 12 episodes long. That's 4 episodes per disc. We stopped doing releases like that back in the mid-2000s when everyone started shifting to boxsets. That's $120 right there for a 12 episode series if you want it on Blu-ray. Nobody does that but Aniplex.

[quote name='Razzuel']Also, in regard to not having a Blu-ray version, an English dub, or the commentaries, it's because they would lose money if they did those. This show, as much as you like it, isn't a show that would sell very well here, and they don't want to risk hurting their Japanese sales (the primary market) — the final Blu-ray volume only came out a couple of months ago in Japan.[/quote]
Take a look at Aniplex's other releases. Not very many of them are exactly carrying mass-market appeal.
 
[quote name='Tsukento']Take a look at Aniplex's other releases. Not very many of them are exactly carrying mass-market appeal.[/QUOTE]

Huh?

Their releases:

  • Blue Exorcist
  • The Gurren Lagann movies
  • Durarara
  • Madoka Magica
  • Oreimo
What's niche about Blue Exorcist, Gurren Lagann, and Durarara? That's 3/5's of their releases.
 
[quote name='Razzuel']$60 for Oreimo is not outrageous; it's even cheaper than their other releases, if we're counting by episodes. It's also in-line with other premium releases by other publishers like NISA, Funimation, and Sentai; it's priced according to the current market standards.

Also, how is Oreimo a low quality release? Have you even seen what it comes with?

ItemDescription

Also, in regard to not having a Blu-ray version, an English dub, or the commentaries, it's because they would lose money if they did those. This show, as much as you like it, isn't a show that would sell very well here, and they don't want to risk hurting their Japanese sales (the primary market) — the final Blu-ray volume only came out a couple of months ago in Japan.

Am I disappointed it's not on Blu-ray? Yeah, but I'd rather own the show than not own the show, so I bought it. Maybe if they waited a year or two, they could have released it on Blu-ray, but by then, there's going to be even less interest in the show than there is now, a year after it aired. Releasing this limited edition was the most profitable decision for them right now, as they see it.

Could there be a standard release later? Maybe, but who knows. You can't assume either way. That's the risk you have to take.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly, although I can't help but feel a little frustrated with Aniplex's asking prices sometimes due to my meager monthly living allowance for college....
 
Aniplex needs to get with the program, this isn't Japan.

All they have to do is produce a standard set at a lower price (especially if they aren't including worthwhile extras like commentary). Lower price equals more sales, plus people won't despise the company as much. Seems like a win, win to me.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Aniplex needs to get with the program, this isn't Japan.

All they have to do is produce a standard set at a lower price (especially if they aren't including worthwhile extras like commentary). Lower price equals more sales, plus people won't despise the company as much. Seems like a win, win to me.[/QUOTE]

Until it's so cheap, that Japanese people import their copies from the US, and they lose their Japanese sales too.
 
I'm not familiar with the show, but this is like $20 too much. Most of the "extras" are cheap useless stuff that I wouldn't care about even I was n love with the show
 
A lower price doesn't necessarily equal more sales, and if there is an increase in sales, it might not be large enough to offset the decrease in price, resulting in a loss of profit. Listen to the ANN podcast about Geneon if you want to hear an example.
 
There's a balance between price and volume that equilibrates to the optimal level of return (basic economics). They aren't there yet. If that optimal amount doesn't equal a profit, then they should never have produced it to begin with or they paid too much for the license. If they can't do basic business math, they should get out of the business.
 
[quote name='elessar123']So what if it's $60. Brink was $60. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. [/QUOTE]
Although that's true, the more accurate statement would be "So what if its MSRP is $75, Brink's was $60 . . . "

To which I would follow with: 6 weeks later Oreimo went out of print after dropping a maximum of 20% in price. While 6 weeks after its release, Brink became a $15-$20 game that lost 67% of its value and even had discouraging sales numbers at that price point.

Though I completely agree that Aniplex's stuff is either "you buy it" or "you don't," if Oreimo was being sold today for $27.75 we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Until it's so cheap, that Japanese people import their copies from the US, and they lose their Japanese sales too.[/QUOTE]They could easily make an arrangement so that retailers don't sell to people in Japan, similar to what Amazon of Japan does with certain items. At that point they would have to go with specialty places (meaning higher prices) to get access to them, killing any point of doing it in the first place.

I'm not saying aniplex should be giving the set away, but a more reasonable price (along with less of those little chachkies) would undoubtedly benefit both the property and the company. Especially if there is a 2nd season.
 
I think Oreimo at $60 is reasonable. On the high side, but it's still cheaper than single volume releases that are $30 for 3-4 episode releases *cough*K-On! and Madoka*cough*

Look at Oreimo on Amazon.co.jp. It's $60 for 48 minutes! We're at least getting the entire series for $60.

No reason to think that they'll never have a budget release, though it's somewhat unlikely. It's very niche title in an already niche market.

And not allowing retailers mean nothing. I could buy it and put it on ebay.
 
[quote name='starkillr']There's a balance between price and volume that equilibrates to the optimal level of return (basic economics). They aren't there yet. If that optimal amount doesn't equal a profit, then they should never have produced it to begin with or they paid too much for the license. If they can't do basic business math, they should get out of the business.[/QUOTE]

Every product is going to have a different "magical" price vs volume ratio. Clearly, they think $60 at the quantity they produced was the right answer. Maybe if they are happy with how it sold, they will try a cheaper, standard release later, as NISA has done. Aniplex USA has made zero precedents thus far in that regard, so you can only wait and see.

Also, Aniplex is on the production committee for Oreimo. There is no licensing fee; they already own the show.

[quote name='roger watersmelon']Although that's true, the more accurate statement would be "So what if its MSRP is $75, Brink's was $60 . . . "

To which I would follow with: 6 weeks later Oreimo went out of print after dropping a maximum of 20% in price. While 6 weeks after its release, Brink became a $15-$20 game that lost 67% of its value and even had discouraging sales numbers at that price point.

Though I completely agree that Aniplex's stuff is either "you buy it" or "you don't," if Oreimo was being sold today for $27.75 we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.[/QUOTE]

Oreimo was never sold for $75. It was only available for purchase at Right Stuf and Bandai Entertainment's store. Yes, the SRP is advertised as $75, but it's only ever been sold for $60. If Oreimo was $27.72, they would be losing money.

[quote name='JoePianist']Update 12/2: Both RightStuf and Bandai's Online Store are SOLD OUT. However, there are a few copies left at Robert's Anime Corner Store and Anime Nation for around $75 at each store[/QUOTE]

If anyone is wondering why these are more expensive, it's because the owners of those stores had to buy their stock from Right Stuf or Bandai Entertainment.

[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']They could easily make an arrangement so that retailers don't sell to people in Japan, similar to what Amazon of Japan does with certain items. At that point they would have to go with specialty places (meaning higher prices) to get access to them, killing any point of doing it in the first place.

I'm not saying aniplex should be giving the set away, but a more reasonable price (along with less of those little chachkies) would undoubtedly benefit both the property and the company. Especially if there is a 2nd season.[/QUOTE]

If it's significantly cheaper, it wouldn't matter if there are extra costs involved for someone from Japan to import it, since the total cost would still be cheaper. That's probably not the only reason though; they probably don't want to piss off their primary market (the customers in Japan); the yen being very strong against the dollar right now might be another reason.

If it was that easy, they probably already would have done that, and adjusted the price and volume of the release here accordingly.

Here's a good example relating to everything we've been talking about. Strike Witches 2 comes out on Blu-ray in Japan at the end of March. It will have Funimation's English subtitles and English dub. Yup, you read that right. This is why we haven't seen Strike Witches 2 yet, even though it aired during the summer of 2010 and was licensed by Funimation at the same time. We're probably not going to see Funimation's release until the end of 2012 or later. Why? Reverse importation. The Japanese don't want to hurt the sales of their primary market. If it was released earlier, we would be seeing a much more expensive release, and that would hurt Funimation.
 
[quote name='Razzuel']$60 for Oreimo is not outrageous; it's even cheaper than their other releases, if we're counting by episodes. It's also in-line with other premium releases by other publishers like NISA, Funimation, and Sentai; it's priced according to the current market standards.

Also, how is Oreimo a low quality release? Have you even seen what it comes with?

ItemDescription

Also, in regard to not having a Blu-ray version, an English dub, or the commentaries, it's because they would lose money if they did those. This show, as much as you like it, isn't a show that would sell very well here, and they don't want to risk hurting their Japanese sales (the primary market) — the final Blu-ray volume only came out a couple of months ago in Japan.

Am I disappointed it's not on Blu-ray? Yeah, but I'd rather own the show than not own the show, so I bought it. Maybe if they waited a year or two, they could have released it on Blu-ray, but by then, there's going to be even less interest in the show than there is now, a year after it aired. Releasing this limited edition was the most profitable decision for them right now, as they see it.

Could there be a standard release later? Maybe, but who knows. You can't assume either way. That's the risk you have to take.[/QUOTE]Totally agree.

[quote name='Rogueleader17']ok show, not worth $60 despite all the art(paper) they include with the box.[/QUOTE]Oh it's definitely worth the price. I have it and LOVE it.

Regardless, Aniplex is NOT the same as a FUNimation or instance. They are releasing anime in both the US/Japan very close to one another. Some anime happens to be the Japanese release, but released in the U.S. w/ subs (some with English voiceacting). I like this because we can get anime pretty quick instead of the lengthy delays by FUNimation. We are still getting quite a deal compared to what Japan is paying. For the most part, Aniplex is right in line with Bandai on pricing (Blue Exorcist volumes are $30 each, same price Bandai releases most volumes for).

Those who complain about Oreimo being $60 for 16 episodes, K-ON was $25-$30 for EACH volume which is only 14 episodes total (on DVD, $5 more for blu-ray). IMHO, Oreimo is quite a deal.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Totally agree.

Oh it's definitely worth the price. I have it and LOVE it.

Regardless, Aniplex is NOT the same as a FUNimation or instance. They are releasing anime in both the US/Japan very close to one another. Some anime happens to be the Japanese release, but released in the U.S. w/ subs (some with English voiceacting). I like this because we can get anime pretty quick instead of the lengthy delays by FUNimation. We are still getting quite a deal compared to what Japan is paying. For the most part, Aniplex is right in line with Bandai on pricing (Blue Exorcist volumes are $30 each, same price Bandai releases most volumes for).

Those who complain about Oreimo being $60 for 16 episodes, K-ON was $25-$30 for EACH volume which is only 14 episodes total (on DVD, $5 more for blu-ray). IMHO, Oreimo is quite a deal.[/QUOTE]

both were retardedly overpriced. I refuse to pay more than $20 for a series less than 20 eps.
 
[quote name='wormraper']both were retardedly overpriced. I refuse to pay more than $20 for a series less than 20 eps.[/QUOTE]Anime isn't cheap to license.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Anime isn't cheap to license.[/QUOTE]

The bigger problem is that it's expensive to produce, haha.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']Anime isn't cheap to license.[/QUOTE]

tell that to the S.A.V.E. line. I really don't care HOW much it costs. if it goes past my price limit I don't buy and the studios don't get my money. If it does, I buy. *shrug, simple economics
 
[quote name='Razzuel']Oreimo was never sold for $75. It was only available for purchase at Right Stuf and Bandai Entertainment's store. Yes, the SRP is advertised as $75, but it's only ever been sold for $60. If Oreimo was $27.72, they would be losing money[/QUOTE]
I wasn't saying that they should be selling it at $28, I was saying that "Brink was $60 (and was terrible)" shouldn't be used as an example to justify the price tag on Oreimo. For one, I could just as easily use Skyrim as an example of how $60 is too much for Oreimo. And as I mentioned before, 6 weeks after its release it went oop at (apparently) the exact same price it was released at.

That's at the heart of my issue with the situation. It has nothing to do with cost (I paid $64 for K-on and spent awhile trying to find pink blu ray cases in US sizes). It's that people had a grand total of a month and a half in which it was available. And the only thing that happened during that short time to motivate more people to buy it was that it was going out of print.
 
[quote name='roger watersmelon']I wasn't saying that they should be selling it at $28, I was saying that "Brink was $60 (and was terrible)" shouldn't be used as an example to justify the price tag on Oreimo. For one, I could just as easily use Skyrim as an example of how $60 is too much for Oreimo. And as I mentioned before, 6 weeks after its release it went oop at (apparently) the exact same price it was released at.

That's at the heart of my issue with the situation. It has nothing to do with cost (I paid $64 for K-on and spent awhile trying to find pink blu ray cases in US sizes). It's that people had a grand total of a month and a half in which it was available. And the only thing that happened during that short time to motivate more people to buy it was that it was going out of print.[/QUOTE]

Well, it was a limited edition. And as has been said before, Oreimo is a niche show in a niche market. They probably only made as many as they needed to sell to make a profit, instead of risking making too many, resulting in a loss.

It's unfortunate if someone missed out on it before they had a chance to buy it, but that's how it goes sometimes. I've been burned before, and it sucks; that's why I try to buy stuff when it comes out if I really want it.

Also, there's always a chance that there will be a standard release later.
 
That's a good point. And even as it was, there was still a couple of days between the announcement and them going out of stock.

I guess this probably means that I'll need to preorder Madoka if I decide I want to pick that up ;)

Sigh . . . all this talking about Oreimo made me buy one of the restocks from Right Stuf. I hate you guys :D
 
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[quote name='roger watersmelon']That's a good point. And even as it was, there was still a couple of days between the announcement and them going out of stock.

I guess this probably means that I'll need to preorder Madoka if I decide I want to pick that up ;)[/QUOTE]

Probably only if you want the LE. Since there's an LE, normal bluray, and DVD releases of Madoka, I don't see it selling out like Oreimo.
 
[quote name='roger watersmelon']That's a good point. And even as it was, there was still a couple of days between the announcement and them going out of stock.

I guess this probably means that I'll need to preorder Madoka if I decide I want to pick that up ;)

Sigh . . . all this talking about Oreimo made me buy one of the restocks from Right Stuf. I hate you guys :D[/QUOTE]

Yesssssssss...join ussssssssss.

[quote name='elessar123']Probably only if you want the LE. Since there's an LE, normal bluray, and DVD releases of Madoka, I don't see it selling out like Oreimo.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the LE might have the same fate. And speaking of the LE, it's pretty cool looking:

ItemDescription
 
[quote name='roger watersmelon'] Sigh . . . all this talking about Oreimo made me buy one of the restocks from Right Stuf. I hate you guys :D[/QUOTE]

I'm proud of you. :applause:

[quote name='Razzuel']Yesssssssss...join ussssssssss.

Yeah, the LE might have the same fate. And speaking of the LE, it's pretty cool looking:

ItemDescription
[/QUOTE]

That's one of the sexiest looking things I've ever seen (and you can probably tell that I'm still a virgin by reading that statement). I'll be sure to pre-order the L.E. Madoka sets, but I'm going to need to sell some of my old anime DVD sets in order to get enough money to spend about an overall $225 on the three L.E. sets combined. I've never bought an anime set at that price range before!

(**Update 12/3: RightStuf, Bandai's Online Store, AND Anime Nation are SOLD OUT. However, there are a few copies left---around (6) copies at the time of this posting---available at Robert's Anime Corner Store for around $75**)
 
[quote name='elessar123']I think Oreimo at $60 is reasonable. On the high side, but it's still cheaper than single volume releases that are $30 for 3-4 episode releases *cough*K-On! and Madoka*cough*

Look at Oreimo on Amazon.co.jp. It's $60 for 48 minutes! We're at least getting the entire series for $60.

No reason to think that they'll never have a budget release, though it's somewhat unlikely. It's very niche title in an already niche market.

And not allowing retailers mean nothing. I could buy it and put it on ebay.[/QUOTE]Of course it's better than what Bandai is doing with those two shows, but it's not much to be proud of as Bandai sucks pretty hard.

[quote name='Razzuel']
If it's significantly cheaper, it wouldn't matter if there are extra costs involved for someone from Japan to import it, since the total cost would still be cheaper. That's probably not the only reason though; they probably don't want to piss off their primary market (the customers in Japan); the yen being very strong against the dollar right now might be another reason.

If it was that easy, they probably already would have done that, and adjusted the price and volume of the release here accordingly.

Here's a good example relating to everything we've been talking about. Strike Witches 2 comes out on Blu-ray in Japan at the end of March. It will have Funimation's English subtitles and English dub. Yup, you read that right. This is why we haven't seen Strike Witches 2 yet, even though it aired during the summer of 2010 and was licensed by Funimation at the same time. We're probably not going to see Funimation's release until the end of 2012 or later. Why? Reverse importation. The Japanese don't want to hurt the sales of their primary market. If it was released earlier, we would be seeing a much more expensive release, and that would hurt Funimation.[/QUOTE]When you're talking about reverse importation then you usually aren't talking cheap. Most of the time the savings will be negligible, so you might as well get the local release. People who cater to that sort of market are going to try and milk it for as much as they can.

So I think the Japanese fear of reverse importation is unfounded, unless you have some sort of research showing that the Japanese consumers are importing American releases in droves and drastically killing sales in Japan.
 
[quote name='JoePianist']That's one of the sexiest looking things I've ever seen (and you can probably tell that I'm still a virgin by reading that statement). I'll be sure to pre-order the L.E. Madoka sets, but I'm going to need to sell some of my old anime DVD sets in order to get enough money to spend about an overall $225 on the three L.E. sets combined. I've never bought an anime set at that price range before![/QUOTE]

That picture just took away any remorse I had about buying the LE.

The only other anime I paid this much money for would have been Haruhi. I preordered all the LEs.

I did recently sell Negima! for $150 though... so it offsets this one a bit.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Of course it's better than what Bandai is doing with those two shows, but it's not much to be proud of as Bandai sucks pretty hard.

When you're talking about reverse importation then you usually aren't talking cheap. Most of the time the savings will be negligible, so you might as well get the local release. People who cater to that sort of market are going to try and milk it for as much as they can.

So I think the Japanese fear of reverse importation is unfounded, unless you have some sort of research showing that the Japanese consumers are importing American releases in droves and drastically killing sales in Japan.[/QUOTE]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying here. A typical Funimation release now is $30 - $60 for an 11-13 episode series. An 11-13 episode series in Japan costs about 32,340 yen, which is about $414 right now. That's the disparity I'm talking about. If Funimation released Strike Witches 2 on Blu-ray on the same day it releases in Japan, what do you think would happen? Funimation's release would be about $50 on release, and the Japanese Blu-ray is up for preorder on Amazon Japan right now for 27,195 yen, which is about $348 right now.

Also, on top of that, the exchange rate is in favor of the Japanese right now, since the yen is extremely strong against the dollar.
 
[quote name='wormraper']tell that to the S.A.V.E. line. I really don't care HOW much it costs. if it goes past my price limit I don't buy and the studios don't get my money. If it does, I buy. *shrug, simple economics[/QUOTE]It's released LATER and not initially for a reason...

[quote name='Razzuel']The bigger problem is that it's expensive to produce, haha.[/QUOTE]That too.

[quote name='Razzuel']Well, it was a limited edition. And as has been said before, Oreimo is a niche show in a niche market. They probably only made as many as they needed to sell to make a profit, instead of risking making too many, resulting in a loss.

It's unfortunate if someone missed out on it before they had a chance to buy it, but that's how it goes sometimes. I've been burned before, and it sucks; that's why I try to buy stuff when it comes out if I really want it.

Also, there's always a chance that there will be a standard release later.[/QUOTE]Exactly, it's not a show that is going to sell big. I didn't want to miss out so I bought the LE. Definitely worth it. I've been burned before on games missing out when trying to avoid a high price on limited quantity, which is why I buy it if I want.

I might even buy Fate/Zero for $370.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Of course it's better than what Bandai is doing with those two shows, but it's not much to be proud of as Bandai sucks pretty hard.

When you're talking about reverse importation then you usually aren't talking cheap. Most of the time the savings will be negligible, so you might as well get the local release. People who cater to that sort of market are going to try and milk it for as much as they can.

So I think the Japanese fear of reverse importation is unfounded, unless you have some sort of research showing that the Japanese consumers are importing American releases in droves and drastically killing sales in Japan.[/QUOTE]


it's much cheaper to reverse import than you think I believe...

Right now... just for example... the Clannad series on Blu from japan converts to 627 dollars... the US version... 50 bucks... Now I know that international shipping isn't the cheapest out there but it would still be a crazy saving if you wanted to reverse import it.

Of course this is also the reason that most US releases have crippled Japanese audio.

Trust me when I say if you're a blu collector you really need to look into reverse importation... I've imported countless US movies from amazon.co.uk for less than half the price.
 
Yea, I imported Doctor Who Series 1-4 for like £44.97 pounds. So cheap versus buying it here. It is DVD region 2, but then again, so's Japan.
 
Well, for those of you who keep bringing up reverse importation as a defense for this pricing, do you have any actual proof that these companies are actually losing their shirts on it? I'd think that there would've been some articles or something on it if it were a big problem.

Off-Topic: It sucks to have buy media in Japan. It looks like they get thrashed if they want anything. I'm guessing that people pirate stuff like crazy there because of this?
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Well, for those of you who keep bringing up reverse importation as a defense for this pricing, do you have any actual proof that these companies are actually losing their shirts on it? I'd think that there would've been some articles or something on it if it were a big problem.[/QUOTE]

You're not hearing about it because it's the Japanese's problem and because these companies are doing the best they can to prevent it. The Japanese fear the collapse of their primary market. It's not that hard to understand that $50 is much more preferable than $350; and no, shipping costs aren't that outrageous — they're only about $20-$30, so it's negligible in comparison.

Here's an article about how the Japanese industry works by Danny Choo: http://www.dannychoo.com/post/en/26110/Anime+Industry+-+How+to+Recuperate+Costs.html

Also, here's a good breakdown of how US industry works by Justin Sevakis via the ANN forums:

The cost of producing TV anime has tripled in the last decade. The Japanese DVD market is also maturing, and R1 imports back into Japan for a third of the price (or less) of R2 are a growing problem for them. Hence, if they're going to part with their intellectual property, it has to be worth at least the amount they're likely to lose in reverse-imports, plus the production burden relative to whatever value they've attached to the R1 market in relation to the rest of the world.

When an anime is licensed, is the fee paid to the Japanese companies in the form of a one-time XX dollar payment, or in the form of XX dollars or XX percent profit off of each DVD that is sold?

Sort of a combination of both. Let me preface this by saying that the following isn't just how anime works, but pretty much every motion picture and TV license.

First, there is an up-front change of money, known as the "license fee" or "minimum guarantee". In the case of TV or OAV, this is usually a per-episode amount (though a licensor may insist on dividing longer series up in specified chunks of episodes). There's also likely a charge for materials duplication (as cloning master tapes is expensive).
The releasing company then produces whatever DVD product and sells it (and may also have other rights like theatrical, TV, etc...). A certain percentage of those grosses are separated into a separate fund. That fund is used for the following:
1. Recouping any production costs. This includes dubbing, DVD authoring, replication and manufacturing, etc...
Once that's all recouped, THEN...
2. Recouping the minimum guarantee. As the "minimum guarantee" implies that this is the guaranteed amount of revenue the licensor will make from the deal, funds are withheld until that amount is actually reached.
AFTER THAT POINT...
3. That percentage is paid as royalties to the licensor.

Now, that's a lot of money to make back before the licensor sees any residuals. You're probably wondering how many titles actually result in residuals being paid, and the answer is "not many". The minimum guarantee is there so that even if the release tanks, the licensor will have made enough money to call it a day, but OTOH won't lose out if it's an unexpected success. Likewise, since the label takes the majority of the risk, they get to keep the lion's share of the profits, should the release do well.

This is how the vast majority of deals are structured, and this system has been around in the entertainment industry for as long as anyone can remember. There are some exceptions, and the minimum guarantee and back-end percentages ("points") vary substantially. Also, sometimes production expenses are recouped before separation into royalty percentages.

[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Off-Topic: It sucks to have buy media in Japan. It looks like they get thrashed if they want anything. I'm guessing that people pirate stuff like crazy there because of this?[/QUOTE]

No. The reason everything is so expensive is because the anime-buying audience in Japan is small and that's how much it needs to cost for these companies to make a profit, if they're even lucky enough to make a profit in the first place. Anime is very expensive to produce. The people buying anime in Japan are the people funding its production. Ever hear about people complaining about there being too many moe or harem shows? That's because that's what's selling the best right now. These companies aren't making any money off of TV airings, and they barely make any money off of merchandise — it's all about the DVDs and Blu-rays.
 
In my case, I've gotten more picky in my old age about what I buy, partially because a lot of shows are crap (I have the Funimation Network where I am, and I can attest that a lot of what they license isn't worth buying.) and partially because I have such a large backlog. There is stuff in my collection that I've owned for years.

I guess those who keep up with what comes out of Japan and hear good buzz for a series is the audience for this set. I used to be one of those people, but time has caught up to me and I don't have the time I once had.

Tho, I can say that back in the day I did shell out the big bucks for the AnimEigo Macross DVD set, so it isn't completely unreasonable to pay a premium for sets of shows you really like.
 
[quote name='Razzuel']You're not hearing about it because it's the Japanese's problem and because these companies are doing the best they can to prevent it. The Japanese fear the collapse of their primary market. It's not that hard to understand that $50 is much more preferable than $350; and no, shipping costs aren't that outrageous — they're only about $20-$30, so it's negligible in comparison.

Here's an article about how the Japanese industry works by Danny Choo: http://www.dannychoo.com/post/en/26110/Anime+Industry+-+How+to+Recuperate+Costs.html

Also, here's a good breakdown of how US industry works by Justin Sevakis via the ANN forums:

The cost of producing TV anime has tripled in the last decade. The Japanese DVD market is also maturing, and R1 imports back into Japan for a third of the price (or less) of R2 are a growing problem for them. Hence, if they're going to part with their intellectual property, it has to be worth at least the amount they're likely to lose in reverse-imports, plus the production burden relative to whatever value they've attached to the R1 market in relation to the rest of the world.

When an anime is licensed, is the fee paid to the Japanese companies in the form of a one-time XX dollar payment, or in the form of XX dollars or XX percent profit off of each DVD that is sold?

Sort of a combination of both. Let me preface this by saying that the following isn't just how anime works, but pretty much every motion picture and TV license.

First, there is an up-front change of money, known as the "license fee" or "minimum guarantee". In the case of TV or OAV, this is usually a per-episode amount (though a licensor may insist on dividing longer series up in specified chunks of episodes). There's also likely a charge for materials duplication (as cloning master tapes is expensive).
The releasing company then produces whatever DVD product and sells it (and may also have other rights like theatrical, TV, etc...). A certain percentage of those grosses are separated into a separate fund. That fund is used for the following:
1. Recouping any production costs. This includes dubbing, DVD authoring, replication and manufacturing, etc...
Once that's all recouped, THEN...
2. Recouping the minimum guarantee. As the "minimum guarantee" implies that this is the guaranteed amount of revenue the licensor will make from the deal, funds are withheld until that amount is actually reached.
AFTER THAT POINT...
3. That percentage is paid as royalties to the licensor.

Now, that's a lot of money to make back before the licensor sees any residuals. You're probably wondering how many titles actually result in residuals being paid, and the answer is "not many". The minimum guarantee is there so that even if the release tanks, the licensor will have made enough money to call it a day, but OTOH won't lose out if it's an unexpected success. Likewise, since the label takes the majority of the risk, they get to keep the lion's share of the profits, should the release do well.

This is how the vast majority of deals are structured, and this system has been around in the entertainment industry for as long as anyone can remember. There are some exceptions, and the minimum guarantee and back-end percentages ("points") vary substantially. Also, sometimes production expenses are recouped before separation into royalty percentages.



No. The reason everything is so expensive is because the anime-buying audience in Japan is small and that's how much it needs to cost for these companies to make a profit, if they're even lucky enough to make a profit in the first place. Anime is very expensive to produce. The people buying anime in Japan are the people funding its production. Ever hear about people complaining about there being too many moe or harem shows? That's because that's what's selling the best right now. These companies aren't making any money off of TV airings, and they barely make any money off of merchandise — it's all about the DVDs and Blu-rays.[/QUOTE]I understand that anime is expensive to create, I just think their marketing tactics are terrible.

Even if they are niche titles that only otaku like, they have otaku throughout the planet to cater to, made even easier because of the Internet. The more niche they make the product the harder it will be for them to make money, as even hardened Japanese otaku have limited funds.
 
[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']Even if they are niche titles that only otaku like, they have otaku throughout the planet to cater to, made even easier because of the Internet.[/QUOTE]

What? Then they'd need to spend even more money to add in all different languages, and hope that it does well in that region. Not all regions like the same anime. Cowboy Bebop did extremely well in the west, but it didn't do quite that well in Japan. Expanding everything they make to all markets will just guarantee failure. For example, harem anime don't sell nearly as well here as they do in Japan.

[quote name='XxFuRy2Xx']The more niche they make the product the harder it will be for them to make money, as even hardened Japanese otaku have limited funds.[/QUOTE]

Like harem anime shows in Japan, and Madoka, Oreimo, etc., the niche titles ARE the ones that make them money. I don't know how much they make on Conan, One Piece, Bleach, Naruto, and Dragonbal (the 200+ episode series, some of those 500+), but those titles come only a couple times a decade. They can't support a whole industry making 2 series a decade.
 
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