Does anyone else think that Take Two is ruining the industry?

Mookyjooky

Mookyjooky

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My take, basically they know that their ultra-violent games sell... so like (Most) rap, they choose style over substance and sprinkle Sex and Violence over their metiocre games and take it to the bank.

But, in my eyes... they bring unneeded attention to the game industry. Seriously, Manhunt sucked ass, and Manhunt 2 will probably suck just as bad. But they're bringing attention to it, and then its getting banned, and next thing you know every right-winged soccer mom is attacking it for its sex and/or violence.

Personally, I could care less about violence for no reason. I'll be the first to say that Virtua Fighter could use a little blood... but I really dont need to be able to do a fatality.

But games like Manhunt, I'm sorry... but that game was the best comedy game of the year. The Plot was borderline retarded, the controls sucked ass, AI was terrible... Not only that, but it was reeeeeallly short. (no music too!)

That game brought all this bad press to the industry, then you look at the hot coffee specticle and I just gotta ask... is take two ruining the industry?

[Also, to clear things up, I love excessive gore if it makes since, I love Dead Rising... I just think that strangling people with a plastic bag is excessive...]
 
no, if anything gamers are ruining the game industry if we follow your thinking. Gore or even stupid gore would not be in games if people don't buy the games. There was enough interest in the first manhunt to make a sequel, which would def not been made if it flopped. Not that any idiot analyst or pundit would think about it like that.
 
Surely the question should be "Is Rockstar ruining the Industry" if you're going to reference those games, aren't Take 2 just the publisher?

But IMO everybody wins except the consumer when a controversial game is released.

Politicians get the extra media coverage they crave with their rants at the violent video-games industry.
Publishers/Dev teams get more media coverage to promote their product.
The media have something to write about.

The consumer may win if the game is good (GTA) or end up buying a game that isn't that great just because of the hype (Manhunt).
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']My take, basically they know that their ultra-violent games sell... so like (Most) rap, they choose style over substance and sprinkle Sex and Violence over their metiocre games and take it to the bank.
[/QUOTE]

Did you really mean rap, or did you miss a "c" there?
 
So you hate it because it's nothing but sex and violence with no substance, but any right wing soccer mom (apparently left wing soccer moms openly embrace it) who hates the games because it is nothing but sex and violence is wrong? But again the same violence seems excessive and/or unneccessary to you? I'm not real sure what I'm supposed to understand from this. It sounds like you're taking the same stance as those soccer moms.

As for Manhunt or Take 2 ruining anything, I can't really comment as I've never played the game.
 
No. I don't.

Also, Manhunt did have music. I own the soundtrack, and acquired it because I enjoyed it so much while playing the game.
 
I never played Manhunt. Maybe before CAG I might have picked up a copy to see what the hoopla was about, but I have enough other games I'll never play that I don't need to bother.

The thing about it is that if Rockstar/Take Two didn't do it, someone else would. There is always going to be someone pushing the boundaries and craving the attention from being the bad boy of the industry. Controversy sells TV shows, magazines, and newspapers; of course it's going to sell games. Wherever you put that limit of what's acceptable and what's not -- someone's going to challenge it.

Also, if it wasn't them, Jack Thompson would just go after someone else, making whatever was in their game sound equally lurid and bannable. Even if the industry was squeaky clean, he'd find a target somewhere.

The only thing I find somewhat unfortunate is that Manhunt 2 had to be the poster child for AO games. The resolution in this case -- major retailers and console manufacturers saying they don't want AO titles -- was too easy. No family-friendly business is going to lose any sleep over not being associated with Manhunt 2.

Something with the dollar power of GTA IV, on the other hand. Now that would be interesting.
 
Someone has to push the envelope. Stomping turtles and racing go-carts can be fun but I don't want to be doing that for the rest of my life.
 
Politicians and huge corporations (IE Walmart) backed by ignorant soccer moms and block-voting church-goers are curtailing free expression (including that found in video games)

These would-be theocrats want to censor everything that falls outside their narrow view of the ideal world.

Take-Two games are good in that they act as a lightning-rod, attracting all the attention from sensationalist media, capitalizing politicians, and Jack Thomsonesque crusaders, thus allowing quality mature titles such as the Res Evil and Silent Hill games to waltz into game stores unchallenged.
 
these are the same old complaints we have heard from these groups since the 70's. First it was Dungeons and Dragons, Atari, NES, Mortal Kombat... The fact is that these people don't understand gaming and then like to chime in on how it trains people to become dangerouse with out any merit. The problem lies in the Jack Thompsons in the world trying to exploit fear for their own personal gain.
 
I got nothin but love for the first Manhunt so I really don't agree with you there. However if you look at the tragedy that was the PC launch of Bioshock, you'll see that 2K may be bad for the industry for different reasons.
 
Anyone else find it kinda funny that someone with a guy eating a baby for a sig is complaning about violence in games runing games.

This thread fails. Its almost laughable.
 
So you're saying Take Two is ruining the industry because "right wing soccer moms" don't like their games? Regardless of whether you think their games are good or not you're being as dumb as those "right wing soccer moms" who are trampling Take Two's freedom of speech by saying that Take Two is ruining the industry.
 
I do agree that Manhunt wasn't very good.

And I kind of agree. I wouldn't say they are ruining the industry, but they are causing more problems than they should.
 
the people ruining the indstry are people who dont know shit about the industry. greedy lazy fuck lawyers who want to cash in on some idiot doing somethign stupid or emulating something he sees in a game or just doing somethign dumb and blaming his actions on a game.

greedy rat bastard politicians who see alot of money to be gained from taking control of the industry and who will try and pass any and all lesgislation they can in the guise of helping people protect their children from so called corrupting influences. and dumbasses in general who have never played a game who think they understand what effects games have on people by quoting vague case studies.


we all know that the videogame industry is held to unbelivably strict guidelines moreso than the film industry all under the farce that because gaming is an interactive media it has more influence on so called impressionable minds. its all about laying the blame and instead of peopel saying shit im a lousy parent and i could have done a better job its easier to pass the buck .

and the industry isnt helping itself by kowtowing to everyones whim. its like that story with the man his son and a donkey.
 
Soccer Moms get angry about anything that they dont understand. They dont understand Video Games along with the main stream press. No way in hell is Rockstar ruining the video game bussiness. If anything they are just testing the limits in our society to see what is perfectly acceptable to be in a game that is meant for adults.

People will find anything to make a rukus about. I mean for example your right wing soccer moms think that harry potter is ruining our children and have created organizations to stop the spread of harry. Does this mean that harry potter is ruining all books and the books industy? Ill let the question answer itself.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']I personally loved the first manhunt... different strokes for different folks i guess.[/quote]I thought it sucked. And that's not the content that sucked, it was the gameplay.

[quote name='camoor']Politicians and huge corporations (IE Walmart) backed by ignorant soccer moms and block-voting church-goers are curtailing free expression (including that found in video games)

These would-be theocrats want to censor everything that falls outside their narrow view of the ideal world. [/quote]You kids realize that it was the ESRB who gave Manhunt 2 the initial AO rating, and it was Sony and Nintendo who refused to allow AO games to be published for their systems, right?


Don't get me wrong, I think it's quite humerous that any one who disagrees with y'all is being generalized into the soccer-mom catagory, when just about every soccer mom I've ever met couldn't care less about what their kids are doing.
Drop off a bunch of 14 year olds at an R rated movie (which have more violence and sex references than most games) or some unchaperoned house to do who knows what? Sure, my kid would never do anything bad. What's to worry about?
 
[quote name='guinaevere']I thought it sucked. And that's not the content that sucked, it was the gameplay.

You kids realize that it was the ESRB who gave Manhunt 2 the initial AO rating, and it was Sony and Nintendo who refused to allow AO games to be published for their systems, right?


Don't get me wrong, I think it's quite humerous that any one who disagrees with y'all is being generalized into the soccer-mom catagory, when just about every soccer mom I've ever met couldn't care less about what their kids are doing.
Drop off a bunch of 14 year olds at an R rated movie (which have more violence and sex references than most games) or some unchaperoned house to do who knows what? Sure, my kid would never do anything bad. What's to worry about?
[/quote]

Finally someone makes some sence in this thread.
 
So they have one bad game out of a bunch of great ones... they're definitely not ruining anything. If anything I'd say Nintendo is ruining it for me at the moment with one constant mini-game suckfest after another.
 
We interrupt this thread to bring you this breaking news:
Chris, go buy Metroid Corruption.


Now back to your regularly scheduled Rockstar/Take Two discussion.
 
I'm not really talking about if the games suck or not. (I only made the point with Manhunt, cause the press reemed it, and it was a failure).

I'm just saying, fighting the press and/or the government is a losing battle. And everytime Rockstar ups the ante, so dickhead in DC cracks down on something else... and I was just wondering if it really was worth it. I wouldnt let my child play GTA, but some people here think its harmless because movies have violence. Personally, I dont remember a popular movie that 14yr olds wanted to watch that was more violent than GTA... but someone show me the light. I cant remember the last time I saw an R rated movie where someone ran up to an innocent civilian, and beat him to death with a giant dildo and run them over in the car after stealing from their corpse... but hey... who knows, I'm not up on these things.

I'm not really talking about violence or gore.... you see more real gore watching someone get a knee surgery or giving birth... I'm just talking about complete senseless violence that is causing the people who run this country to constantly crack down on our hobby.
 
I think Rockstar is a great company. They make original games (not like EA or Activision). Sure you can argue that the Warriors was based on a movie but its an old movie from the late 70's and a cult film at that.

The only strike against them is their bias for the playstation. I wish they were more neutral and support the Wii and the Xbox a little more.
 
[quote name='guinaevere']We interrupt this thread to bring you this breaking news:
Chris, go buy Metroid Corruption.


Now back to your regularly scheduled Rockstar/Take Two discussion.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']I'm not really talking about if the games suck or not. (I only made the point with Manhunt, cause the press reemed it, and it was a failure).

I'm just saying, fighting the press and/or the government is a losing battle. And everytime Rockstar ups the ante, so dickhead in DC cracks down on something else... and I was just wondering if it really was worth it. I wouldnt let my child play GTA, but some people here think its harmless because movies have violence. Personally, I dont remember a popular movie that 14yr olds wanted to watch that was more violent than GTA... but someone show me the light. I cant remember the last time I saw an R rated movie where someone ran up to an innocent civilian, and beat him to death with a giant dildo and run them over in the car after stealing from their corpse... but hey... who knows, I'm not up on these things.

I'm not really talking about violence or gore.... you see more real gore watching someone get a knee surgery or giving birth... I'm just talking about complete senseless violence that is causing the people who run this country to constantly crack down on our hobby.[/quote]

Saw or Hostel. Ring any bells. Please stop your senseless bitching. I wish i was a mod so i could lock topics like this.
 
It's interesting that video games usually get the blame for things being too violent, when in other forms of media, violence usually gets a pass while naughty words and bewbies gets people outraged.
 
[quote name='guinaevere']We interrupt this thread to bring you this breaking news:
Chris, go buy Metroid Corruption.


Now back to your regularly scheduled Rockstar/Take Two discussion.[/QUOTE]


I wasn't a fan of the two Gamecube Metroids, and I have zero interest in this one. I watched a bunch of videos of it, and it looks like the same game to me with Wii controls.
 
[quote name='InuFaye']Saw or Hostel. Ring any bells. Please stop your senseless bitching. I wish i was a mod so i could lock topics like this.[/quote]
:D Not bitching, just a question. Interested in what you think, nothing more.

Try not to get so emotional involved in the discussion.

EDIT: good catch with those movies, I havent seen either... see, I told you I'm not up on movies!
 
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']It's interesting that video games usually get the blame for things being too violent, when in other forms of media, violence usually gets a pass while naughty words and bewbies gets people outraged.[/quote]Good call. I mentioned movies, but books are also right up there. I read Tom Wolfe's I am Charlotte Simmons; parts of it, I thought I was reading a pr0n book. Granted, this is a poor example because most people with taste will avoid Tom Wolfe's books anyway. It was just the first that popped into my head.

[quote name='Chris in Cali']I wasn't a fan of the two Gamecube Metroids, and I have zero interest in this one. I watched a bunch of videos of it, and it looks like the same game to me with Wii controls.[/quote]*snaps*

And for what little its worth, I don't think RockStar or TakeTwo are ruining the gaming industry with the content of their games. There will always be a lowest common denominator to market towards.

For the even little-er that it's worth, some of their games I dig, others are pathetic.
 
[quote name='guinaevere']I thought it sucked. And that's not the content that sucked, it was the gameplay.

You kids realize that it was the ESRB who gave Manhunt 2 the initial AO rating, and it was Sony and Nintendo who refused to allow AO games to be published for their systems, right?


Don't get me wrong, I think it's quite humerous that any one who disagrees with y'all is being generalized into the soccer-mom catagory, when just about every soccer mom I've ever met couldn't care less about what their kids are doing.
Drop off a bunch of 14 year olds at an R rated movie (which have more violence and sex references than most games) or some unchaperoned house to do who knows what? Sure, my kid would never do anything bad. What's to worry about?
[/quote]


that is the funniest thing about the game. peopel go on and on about the violence in the original manhunt but the game was crap. you see the same lame death scenes over and over and to be real theres more violence in many pg 13 and even some pg movies than youd see in manhunt. all this videogame violence shit would be quashed if

1. parents took the time to learn about the games their kid s are playing . all they need to do is flip the fucking game over and look at the ratings.


2. stores where parents buy ao mature games for their kids are required to sign a waiver stating they know the game is inappropriate for kids of a certain age and by buying it for their kids they accept all responsibility for anythign their kids might do to copy or emulate said game.

people hide behind ignorance and then blame anyoen and everyone they can to make a quick buck or to deflect blame from where t should go. the dumb kids who do stupid shit and the shit parents who arent involved enough in their kids lives.
 
No. I don't think Chris should buy any Nintendo games.

I mean he bought a Nintendo system knowing full well they were going to try and sell him on first party games, even though he's said in the past "I hate NIntendo first party games."

I prefer to watch him spasm around like a steroid induced mental patient, talking about how them mean 'ole Nintendo men tricked him.

I mean he only brings it up in just about every post he makes. He goes into the Nintendo forum and complains there. It's pretty amazing.

He's like a fanboy of hate, fueled by amphetamines and struggling to find shirts that show off his totally awesome abs.

Actually, he's really an attention whore. A big ripply one who probably can't function unless he has perfect lighting and is posing at exact angles.

Anyway, Juka isn't bitching. He's asking for clear and honest discussion. Which is a lot better than the tiresome antics a lot of other people run on these boards. No need to get on his case when he's asking for peoples' opinions. As much as I tend to disagree with him, he's far more level headed than the grand majority of knee jerk reaction-ers we gots runnin' in these here parts.
 
It's not a big deal. A bad game is a bad game regardless of its content and media attention. The reassembly of Manhunt 2 isn't going to force other developers to rethink explicit material in their games, nor will Manhunt 2 sales be affected by the supposed angry protesters. Although Manhunt 2 has received certain media attention, it is so limited that very few will care (and less will care about the rated M version) to make a difference. Parents who were protective about violent/sexual content in games will always ignore games of this type, while parents that don't care never will.

There are plenty of games that choose style over substance. The sexy/violent angle is just one of many styles to lure gamers in. If that style wasn't out there, those game makers would just choose the next available popular style to garner attention. It's all cyclical and great games are still coming out in droves.
 
I didn't like any of the Grand Theft Auto games and I only liked Manhunt a little because of the atmosphere.

I do agree that they are ruining the industry. You talk to anybody about video games and they start with "OH MY GOD GRAND THEFT AUTO" and I usually stop talking to them at that point.
 
Eh, I don't think they're ruining the industry, though i think it's a little sad that their games sell as well as they do. IMO, Rockstar's games are games with interesting concepts and horribly flawed executions.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Eh, I don't think they're ruining the industry, though i think it's a little sad that their games sell as well as they do. IMO, Rockstar's games are games with interesting concepts and horribly flawed executions.[/quote]


i agree with you there after you play so many of them they begin to get repetitive. im playing bully now and the school stuff aside all the missions feel like everything ove done before in every rockstar game. racing missions, fighting diff groups or gangs, collecting weapons, side missions, dating chick missions, skill upgrades.


not to knock the game or any rockstar games theyre all good and did alot of amazing stuff in their time but theyre kinds becoming maddenish. maybe the games on the new consoles will break the mold and set new standards again but in the mean time i'll play them bt in bursts. damn games become a chore after a while . it just sucks bully didnt have more classes in it but i kinda do enjoy the bike races but liek alot of things in these games they kinda feel like busy work or artificial game lengthening tools.
 
Manhunt was good, and it did have music. When I first played it, it reminded me a bit of The Warriors with the different gangs and the cool music score. It definitely had style, and the substance was there for anyone who gave it a chance. Maybe someone at R* thought that it resembled The Warriors movie too, because we got a cool game about it like two years later. Anyway, I think you imply that R* is ruining the industry, as games like Oblivion, Bioshock, and others I don't feel like mentioning which also published by Take-Two are some of the best games around.
 
[quote name='lokizz']i agree with you there after you play so many of them they begin to get repetitive. im playing bully now and the school stuff aside all the missions feel like everything ove done before in every rockstar game. racing missions, fighting diff groups or gangs, collecting weapons, side missions, dating chick missions, skill upgrades.


not to knock the game or any rockstar games theyre all good and did alot of amazing stuff in their time but theyre kinds becoming maddenish. maybe the games on the new consoles will break the mold and set new standards again but in the mean time i'll play them bt in bursts. damn games become a chore after a while . it just sucks bully didnt have more classes in it but i kinda do enjoy the bike races but liek alot of things in these games they kinda feel like busy work or artificial game lengthening tools.[/QUOTE]

Well, my issue with Rockstar's stuff isn't so much that it's the same sort of idea over and over as it is that the fundamental mechanics of their games suck. I mean, yeah, you have the freedom to do a lot of shit in their games, but none of it feels particularly polished. I'd much rather play something more linear if it means having halfway decent combat or driving.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Well, my issue with Rockstar's stuff isn't so much that it's the same sort of idea over and over as it is that the fundamental mechanics of their games suck. I mean, yeah, you have the freedom to do a lot of shit in their games, but none of it feels particularly polished. I'd much rather play something more linear if it means having halfway decent combat or driving.[/quote]

yeah the combat is pretty basic which works well with bully but with games liek the warriors or gta you want and need more fighting variety. overall storywise the warriors had the best story and yeah im biased since im a fan of the movie but i wanted to see more of the story overall. bully i could care less at this point since alot of it contradicts itself.
 
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