Downloading Music vs Pirating Games: Is there a difference?

I'm at work so I don't have time to read this entire post yet but I look at it like this...

Have any of you recorded songs of the radio? It's the same prinicpal as downloading music. You are making a copy of a copy bascially. Also, look at what the RIAA is concerened about. Crap like Britney Spears (no offense to those who like her). I personally like Jazz and Classical. You never hear anything about the RIAA going after people sharing their huge collection of Beethoven. The main problem is that mp3's are often equal to the quality of CDs. They are digital copies unlike the analog you get from radio so I understand that argument. Remember music was orginally an ART medium not a pop music machine like it is now.
 
Classical music is free domain, so royalties don't go to anyone in that case. Same with dead Jazz composers. The money gets tied up in estates and such.

Classical and Jazz aren't pirated to the same extent as Britney, and are paid differently too. You can't compare the genres directly.

My last internship was in ASCAP (ironically I had to go through the database and fill out cease and desist letters to sites that were pirating) so I know these stupid trivial things.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']It takes hours to record a $15 CD.

It takes months to write and build a $50 game.

Big difference.
But don't pirate either, bitches.[/quote]

Actually you fail to realize how long it takes to write the lyrics and song. It takes just as long or longer but there are less people involved.
 
Are you saying that it takes just as long to make a song as it takes to make a video game?
NO. fuckING. WAY.

It may take up to 3 weeks TOTAL (including writing) to make a CD, but it takes years to make a good game.

And like I said before, don't pirate either, bitches.
I'm gonna grow my hair long and sit in your front yard holding a sign and wear dark sunglasses and a tye dye shirt.

[edit]
Games made by Electronic Arts only take months, but other companies like Square, Nintendo, and Valve spend years on games.
 
Yeah, and they cost $50 bucks when they are released. CD's only cost $10-15.

And only some games take years, most take months
because you can take the tools built from previous games and apply them to new ones. How many games have you played that use the same graphics engine from another ? Probably many. Music CD's are usually built from the ground up, so to speak, with every new release.

Irregardless, piracy doesn't seem to be hurting either industry, unless it's on the scale of the asian markets where they have full blown pirate production factories.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Are you saying that it takes just as long to make a song as it takes to make a video game?
NO. fuckING. WAY.

It may take up to 3 weeks TOTAL (including writing) to make a CD, but it takes years to make a good game.

And like I said before, don't pirate either, bitches.
I'm gonna grow my hair long and sit in your front yard holding a sign and wear dark sunglasses and a tye dye shirt.

[edit]
Games made by Electronic Arts only take months, but other companies like Square, Nintendo, and Valve spend years on games.[/quote]

quackzilla comon' now, get real. cds can take just as long as games depending on the quality and various factor, how long do you think alicia keys took to produce her first album and have it signed and marketed. artists with real talent may take as long as 10 years to perfect a album, also game engineers get paid to be at their Macs producing, and high sales helps the next project. while starving artists bus tables and write on the side. both the music and game industry is in the same park. this is not an issue of "which should you pirate, cds or games" but how piracy affects our society as a whole, and you really think a phrase like "dont pirate either, bitches" is really going to help your argument? stay in school, please for the sake of the future.
 
it's all a matter of value, really.
personally, i don't really think that CD extras, manuals, etc. are valuable to me. i hate cds, and i don't want them in my house. period. and i don't think that a single song is worth $1 when purchased digitally, as seen with apple's itunes music store. however, if apple were to charge less per song, or certainly less per cd, i'd buy all my music legally in digital format. as it stands, i feel itunes is a ripoff because i'm paying just as much if not more for music downloaded from itunes than i would for music on a cd from circuit city. if the prices matched what i valued the music to be worth, i'd pay for every last song i own.
games are much the same. i personally don't pirate games (aside from emulation, if you even consider that pirating) because, in most cases, i find the game to have enough value to be worth my money.
however, if the prices of cds, digital music, and games dropped, i don't think any of this would be nearly the issue it is. if the price is low enough, it isn't worth the risk of pirating to get it. for example, there's really not any dvds that i'd want to buy that i'd look to pirate, because the price is usually low enough that it isn't worth the trouble or the risk of obtaining the media illegally.
what i'm getting at is that if games' prices dropped, so that new games were maybe at the $20 mark, not only would piracy be more likely to drop, but the market as a whole would become much larger than what it is now.
i spent too long writing this, i don't even know if it makes any sense now...
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Yeah, and they cost $50 bucks when they are released. CD's only cost $10-15.

And only some games take years, most take months
because you can take the tools built from previous games and apply them to new ones. How many games have you played that use the same graphics engine from another ? Probably many. Music CD's are usually built from the ground up, so to speak, with every new release.

Irregardless, piracy doesn't seem to be hurting either industry, unless it's on the scale of the asian markets where they have full blown pirate production factories.[/quote]

Games may use each others engines, but pop machines (Britney, Christina, etc.) use each others sound and the like. These two industry's are so intertwined.
 
[quote name='Mr. Anderson']

Games may use each others engines, but pop machines (Britney, Christina, etc.) use each others sound and the like. These two industry's are so intertwined.[/quote]

except there are good games out there, theres not much good music
 
[quote name='punqsux'][quote name='Mr. Anderson']

Games may use each others engines, but pop machines (Britney, Christina, etc.) use each others sound and the like. These two industry's are so intertwined.[/quote]

except there are good games out there, theres not much good music[/quote]

True indeed.
 
ahhhh. what if you found a stack of cd's\games in the middle of the street, would you take them, find the owner, or just leave them there.

its the same idea.
 
[quote name='Simon Adebesi']ahhhh. what if you found a stack of cd's\games in the middle of the street, would you take them, find the owner, or just leave them there.

its the same idea.[/quote]

What if you could take them, so that you had them, AND leave them there too, in case the owner comes back?
 
[quote name='punqsux'][quote name='Mr. Anderson']

Games may use each others engines, but pop machines (Britney, Christina, etc.) use each others sound and the like. These two industry's are so intertwined.[/quote]

except there are good games out there, theres not much good music[/quote]

i disagree. i love music, and games... yellowcard/final fantasy brand new/dragon warrior system of a down/mario kart, see. you are wrong. :D
 
[quote name='eldad9'][quote name='Simon Adebesi']ahhhh. what if you found a stack of cd's\games in the middle of the street, would you take them, find the owner, or just leave them there.

its the same idea.[/quote]

What if you could take them, so that you had them, AND leave them there too, in case the owner comes back?[/quote]

Yeah....its more like sitting there and listening to them until the owner comes back. Your not taking anything, just making good use of whats available.

Common you antipiracy guys, just admit it. Your brainwashed by our evil corporate overlords. :)
 
to be quite honest, i buy as many games/ cds as i can afford, and download the rest..i try to do my share of purchases and keep it fair but i dont feel guilty about downloading a copy (not a physical item) of something that i would absolutely never pay for in the first place (unless of course the prices were lower)
 
Just because you don't feel guilty about it doesn't make it any less of a crime. I wish some people would just admit to themselves that they are theives, instead of crafting ridiculous excuses to try to absolve themselves of blame.

I can deal with the fact that some people are going to steal, and that doesn't even bother me, so long as they are honest about it.

People who steal and then say it isn't their fault or throw any of a myriad of excuses about why they aren't responsible bothers me even more...

But what really bothers me are the people who steal games and music, act like it isn't their fault.. that the company owe it to them, and then the proceed to complain about how no one makes any games or music that they like. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe because they are a BUSINESS? If they don't make money on something, they aren't going to make it. With videogames and music, you vote with your dollars... so if you aren't buying anything, you have no reason to complain.
 
[quote name='rimsforsale'][quote name='punqsux'][quote name='Mr. Anderson']

Games may use each others engines, but pop machines (Britney, Christina, etc.) use each others sound and the like. These two industry's are so intertwined.[/quote]

except there are good games out there, theres not much good music[/quote]

i disagree. i love music, and games... yellowcard/final fantasy brand new/dragon warrior system of a down/mario kart, see. you are wrong. :D[/quote]

Wtf?

As for this argument, I love music and games too (probably games a tad more), but I find it extremely hard to find good CDs, as I scrounge all sorts of genres (they range from many different genres, some you've probably never cared to look into) but with little luck. My best method for finding good music has been to download it, and if the music is good enough, then to actually buy the CD. $20+ is rape for a CD that is usually not that good, and so this measure has been almost necessary for me to get the most bang for my buck. As for games, there are a good number of well-known reliable sources for rating games, so game purchases are much easier to make in confidence.

What I think the music industry needs to do is to have someone start up a music review service (magazine, website, etc.) that gives extremely well detailed reviews on the music, as well as give plenty of demos of the music itself. At least when it comes to the music scene in America, much of it is utterly tasteless, and I've had to import most of my CDs (one of my favorite ever is a CD re-issue of the 1989 release of the Mother OST Vocals...excellent rearrangements of songs from the first in the Mother series, otherwise known as Earthbound in the US).
 
[quote name='JSweeney']...crafting ridiculous excuses to try to absolve themselves of blame...[/quote]

What are you talking about?

You made a mistake. I corrected it. Admit your mistake or move on, or just ignore it. Don't post sequences of words that make no sense when put together.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']Just because you don't feel guilty about it doesn't make it any less of a crime. I wish some people would just admit to themselves that they are theives, instead of crafting ridiculous excuses to try to absolve themselves of blame.

I can deal with the fact that some people are going to steal, and that doesn't even bother me, so long as they are honest about it.

People who steal and then say it isn't their fault or throw any of a myriad of excuses about why they aren't responsible bothers me even more...

But what really bothers me are the people who steal games and music, act like it isn't their fault.. that the company owe it to them, and then the proceed to complain about how no one makes any games or music that they like. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe because they are a BUSINESS? If they don't make money on something, they aren't going to make it. With videogames and music, you vote with your dollars... so if you aren't buying anything, you have no reason to complain.[/quote]

Im not blaming them for me downloading it, im blaming them for me not paying it, the fact that i download it is really irrelevant because id never pay for it in the first place if i would download it
 
[quote name='schu'][quote name='JSweeney']Just because you don't feel guilty about it doesn't make it any less of a crime. I wish some people would just admit to themselves that they are theives, instead of crafting ridiculous excuses to try to absolve themselves of blame.

I can deal with the fact that some people are going to steal, and that doesn't even bother me, so long as they are honest about it.

People who steal and then say it isn't their fault or throw any of a myriad of excuses about why they aren't responsible bothers me even more...

But what really bothers me are the people who steal games and music, act like it isn't their fault.. that the company owe it to them, and then the proceed to complain about how no one makes any games or music that they like. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe because they are a BUSINESS? If they don't make money on something, they aren't going to make it. With videogames and music, you vote with your dollars... so if you aren't buying anything, you have no reason to complain.[/quote]

Im not blaming them for me downloading it, im blaming them for me not paying it, the fact that i download it is really irrelevant because id never pay for it in the first place if i would download it
you call me dishonest, you need to face up to the fact that when no one is having something taken from them that there is no theft occuring..if you can tell me what they are losing by me downloading it then ill be happy to lsiten
if i tried to sell their product and make money off of it, then i would consider it theft..otherwise not so[/quote]
 
TOPIC MERGED

It seems that a lot of people here use P2P programs to download movies and music and the community as a whole are generally fine with it. However when someone brings up copying or downloading a game, they get flamed. What makes downloading music more acceptable than downloading games? Or are they equally bad?

Just trying to bring up something that's I've noticed for awhile. Please try to keep it civil and if this topic ever goes out of hand, the mods may lock it as they see fit.

Discuss.
 
Well I hate the muisc industry much more than I do the video game insdustry as a whole so I don't really care when people rip off music since CD prices are way to high.
 
I for one am not fine with it.. but somehow people assume somehow that a song is so much cheaper it is somehow ok. Sorta like stealing a peice of gum is somehow better than stealing a new Cadillac.. which I also don't agree with.

Piracy is theft, and it is illegal, pure and simple.
 
There is a lot more involved in bootlegging games, mod chips and hacks and stuff. Its so easy to download music and movies. I see no difference. Its like the people that download anime, and say its OK to do because its not available in the US.
 
duh they are equally bad in terms of stealing but people probably equate stealing a song with breaking into your little sister's piggybank and stealing video games with robbing a bank...

Others look at it as they weren't going to buy the game or music in the first place so no one loses anything.

and others look at it as "previewing" - in that it is a gateway to purchasing things down the road that you never would have considered until you got the free sample...
 
Also, the music industry is very different... the creators of the music generally do not benefit from the sale of CDs as game companies benefit from the sale of their software.

Most bands encourage you to download their music, and pay to see them live, as that's where they make their money.
 
[quote name='Crud'][quote name='zionoverfire']CD prices are way to high.[/quote]

And video game prices aren't?[/quote]

Vidoe game prices have been around $50 for a long time, every year they try and jack up the CD prices a little bit more.
 
I have to agree with Cornfedwb. Stealing is stealing. Just because one industry/store/whatever or another deserves it, doesn't make it OK.

It's the same with taking advantage of the system. People on this site say it's OK to use other peoples discount codes but it's not OK return a game to a store that doesn't require a receipt.

To each his own regarding what you think is OK and not OK, but at least be consistent. That's all I ask.
 
[quote name='Crud'][quote name='zionoverfire']CD prices are way to high.[/quote]

And video game prices aren't?[/quote]

No - not in terms of what it takes to actually make one. How many times do you hear of some jackass "musician" say they wrote an entire CD in an afternoon because "the music was just flowing out of me dude" or something like that. It hardly costs anything to record a cd compared to creating a video game. Besides most, if not all, games get marked down to $20 or less after a year but Sgt. Pepper's is still going for $15.99 40 years after it's release. We are lucky video games are so cheap.
 
They're both equally 'wrong.'
If something costs too much, don't buy it, or buy it used, or use tradein credit. 'Costing too much' is an entirely subjective term, and there will always be cheap SOB's to whom *any* cost is 'too much.'
I don't agree with, oh, virtually any of the music industry's practices, but piracy is still wrong, and doesn't help resolve the actual problems at all.
Just off the top of my head, I think music piracy is a bigger impact than game piracy [overall]. It's so easy to pirate music and play them [Ipods, Winamp, etc.], but it's a relative PITA to pirate a game and play it, be it PC or console. [PC obviously a little easier, but still not as easy as music.]
That said, i love the concept of P2P and Mp3....I've got 8-12 legit cd's of certain artists, and it is ultra convenient to stick all those albums on one CDR.
The tool is not inherently illegal, nor should it be; it's what can be done with it.
 
Slightly off topic here but nachzeher, could you tell me what systems Fire Emblem is in? I know there's one for GBA but I don't know the others and uh, stealing is bad, m'kay?
 
[quote name='jaykrue']Slightly off topic here but nachzeher, could you tell me what systems Fire Emblem is in? I know there's one for GBA but I don't know the others and uh, stealing is bad, m'kay?[/quote]

Here's this is all you need to know about FE releases:

http://www.fact-index.com/f/fi/fire_emblem.html

The latest instalment (FE8) just came out last month in Japan in the GBA. A Fire Emblem on the GCN is expected to come out in 2005.

Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken (7), as it is known in Japan, is the only one released in the US so far.
 
Just throwing this in.

The one difference between piracy and theft is that with theft, you are physically stealing the item and the other materials that the companies spent money to make along with it, and piracy, you're just stealing actual songs/movie/game itself. I don't really condone either one, but when I DL songs from a group I like, I usually end up getting the CD anyway. The are subtle differences between the two that really change a lot about why people just don't take it from the store.

I do the same thing Nachzeher, I like to at least get a few minutes of play to decide if I want to get the game, so I don't waste $30 on a game. Though I have beat a few games and still bought them because I really liked them. One difference between music and game piracy is the amount of money someone has to put into it to get their illegal version to play. For music, it's usually built right into your computer and if it's not, then it's cheap enough that it's not a big hit to your wallet. As for games, you tend to need a mod chip to override whatever system you plan to use, you usually pay someone else so you don't mess up the system, which makes the cost of pirating games a few times higher than games.

One of my classes had this very same discussion, so I'm just throwing this bit of info out.
 
[quote name='javeryh'][quote name='Crud'][quote name='zionoverfire']CD prices are way to high.[/quote]

And video game prices aren't?[/quote]

No - not in terms of what it takes to actually make one. How many times do you hear of some jackass "musician" say they wrote an entire CD in an afternoon because "the music was just flowing out of me dude" or something like that. It hardly costs anything to record a cd compared to creating a video game. Besides most, if not all, games get marked down to $20 or less after a year but Sgt. Pepper's is still going for $15.99 40 years after it's release. We are lucky video games are so cheap.[/quote]


Sgt Peppers is a popular cd though... so why would they mark it down? They don't mark down popular video games until a sequal comes out, or until it's been out on the market for quite awhile. Besides, writing a cd and actually going into the studio and recording it are completely different. The studio isn't free ya know, especially for popular bands, it does get quite expensive in the long run, with productions fees and all. I'm not saying it doesn't take a lot of money to make a video game, because I know it does.
 
Video games are not inflated vs CDs, when you factor entertainment value. And you're a cheapass :twisted:

I bought Bond: Nightfire used for $12. Been playing it for an hour a night, 2 and a half weeks straight. How many times are you going to do that with a CD from Tower Records.

It has been proven in court that record companies inflated prices illegally throughout the 1990s, yet all they had to do was unload some stale merchandise on the libraries (Gee thanks for dumping 610,000 copies of "Willenium" NO JOKE) and mail out a few $16 checks to the few ppl who knew about the class action lawsuit against them. They continue to hike prices and now sue the clueless parents of kids who put music on the internet for, on average, $5500 a pop (by law they can request over $100,000 ---> thanks Orin Hatch (R, Utah))

Copyright laws extend out over 100 years, do not benefit the original artists, and only serve to enrich corporations and their lawyers (I'm calling out Cary Sherman and Mitch Bainwol)

The copyright system is broken (we need a more flexible copyright that protects the original artist), people are tired of the tyranny of inflated prices ($12 a CD??? It's overpriced at $3), and the people's actions are tantamount to civil disobedience (similar to what happened during prohibition)

Do yourself a favor and check out www.downhillbattle.org - it's time for change.

I listen to live music or internet radio anymore, you'll never see me buy another RIAA-backed CD again. Congrats RIAA, you just lost another customer for life.

As long as videogames remain reasonably priced, I'm in the game. However I'm not too keen on all this "downloadable content" BS, esp the problem ppl have in trying to sell their PS2 HDD.
 
[quote name='camoor']Video games are not inflated vs CDs, when you factor entertainment value. And you're a cheapass :twisted:

I bought Bond: Nightfire used for $12. Been playing it for an hour a night, 2 and a half weeks straight. How many times are you going to do that with a CD from Tower Records.

It has been proven in court that record companies inflated prices illegally throughout the 1990s, yet all they had to do was unload some stale merchandise on the libraries (Gee thanks for dumping 610,000 copies of "Willenium" NO JOKE) and mail out a few $16 checks to the few ppl who knew about the class action lawsuit against them. They continue to hike prices and now sue the clueless parents of kids who put music on the internet for, on average, $5500 a pop (by law they can request over $100,000 ---> thanks Orin Hatch (R, Utah))

Copyright laws extend out over 100 years, do not benefit the original artists, and only serve to enrich corporations and their lawyers (I'm calling out Cary Sherman and Mitch Bainwol)

The copyright system is broken (we need a more flexible copyright that protects the original artist), people are tired of the tyranny of inflated prices ($12 a CD??? It's overpriced at $3), and the people's actions are tantamount to civil disobedience (similar to what happened during prohibition)

Do yourself a favor and check out www.downhillbattle.org - it's time for change.

I listen to live music or internet radio anymore, you'll never see me buy another RIAA-backed CD again. Congrats RIAA, you just lost another customer for life.

As long as videogames remain reasonably priced, I'm in the game. However I'm not too keen on all this "downloadable content" BS, esp the problem ppl have in trying to sell their PS2 HDD.[/quote]

:shock: Copy right law is over 100 now? Damn I thought it was like 80 or something and that is still way to long.
 
[quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue']Slightly off topic here but nachzeher, could you tell me what systems Fire Emblem is in? I know there's one for GBA but I don't know the others and uh, stealing is bad, m'kay?[/quote]

Here's this is all you need to know about FE releases:

http://www.fact-index.com/f/fi/fire_emblem.html

The latest instalment (FE8) just came out last month in Japan in the GBA. A Fire Emblem on the GCN is expected to come out in 2005.

Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken (7), as it is known in Japan, is the only one released in the US so far.[/quote]

Sweet! Thanks again! Oh, and which one is your sprites from? that attack sequence kicks ass!
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']:shock: Copyright law is over 100 now? Damn I thought it was like 80 or something and that is still way to long.[/quote]

They extend it whenever mickey mouse is about to enter the public domain.
 
[quote name='jaykrue'][quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue']Slightly off topic here but nachzeher, could you tell me what systems Fire Emblem is in? I know there's one for GBA but I don't know the others and uh, stealing is bad, m'kay?[/quote]

Here's this is all you need to know about FE releases:

http://www.fact-index.com/f/fi/fire_emblem.html

The latest instalment (FE8) just came out last month in Japan in the GBA. A Fire Emblem on the GCN is expected to come out in 2005.

Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken (7), as it is known in Japan, is the only one released in the US so far.[/quote]

Sweet! Thanks again! Oh, and which one is your sprites from? that attack sequence kicks ass![/quote]

The one in my sig? It's from the US release. That scenario was just made up though, don't expect a battle like that in the game. Basically it was the three main characters' critical attacks against the final boss.
 
[quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue'][quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue']Slightly off topic here but nachzeher, could you tell me what systems Fire Emblem is in? I know there's one for GBA but I don't know the others and uh, stealing is bad, m'kay?[/quote]

Here's this is all you need to know about FE releases:

http://www.fact-index.com/f/fi/fire_emblem.html

The latest instalment (FE8) just came out last month in Japan in the GBA. A Fire Emblem on the GCN is expected to come out in 2005.

Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken (7), as it is known in Japan, is the only one released in the US so far.[/quote]

Sweet! Thanks again! Oh, and which one is your sprites from? that attack sequence kicks ass![/quote]

The one in my sig? It's from the US release. That scenario was just made up though, don't expect a battle like that in the game. Basically it was the three main characters' critical attacks against the final boss.[/quote]

Really? That's too bad. It would be awesome to see a team combo attack like that in a game but I haven't seen it too often. I'll still check out FE7 though
 
[quote name='jaykrue'][quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue'][quote name='nachzeher'][quote name='jaykrue']Slightly off topic here but nachzeher, could you tell me what systems Fire Emblem is in? I know there's one for GBA but I don't know the others and uh, stealing is bad, m'kay?[/quote]

Here's this is all you need to know about FE releases:

http://www.fact-index.com/f/fi/fire_emblem.html

The latest instalment (FE8) just came out last month in Japan in the GBA. A Fire Emblem on the GCN is expected to come out in 2005.

Fire Emblem: Rekka no Ken (7), as it is known in Japan, is the only one released in the US so far.[/quote]

Sweet! Thanks again! Oh, and which one is your sprites from? that attack sequence kicks ass![/quote]

The one in my sig? It's from the US release. That scenario was just made up though, don't expect a battle like that in the game. Basically it was the three main characters' critical attacks against the final boss.[/quote]

Really? That's too bad. It would be awesome to see a team combo attack like that in a game but I haven't seen it too often. I'll still check out FE7 though[/quote]

There is a triple combo, involving three pegasus knights, but I haven't really attempted it yet.
 
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