Ebay - "No more negative feedback for buyers"

chosen1s

chosen1s

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Has anybody else seen this? Maybe this is old news, but I stumbled across it today searching Ebay for a feedback-related question. Changes coming "May 2008":

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What is changing?

What changes are being made to the eBay Feedback system?

There are five key elements to the new Feedback system being introduced in the first half of 2008:
Beginning in February, buyers and sellers will be able to earn up to one Feedback per week from the same trading partner. Today, members may only affect each other's Feedback scores one time, regardless of the number of transactions between the parties. This change will both encourage repeat transactions and reward good service.
Sellers will no longer be able to leave negative or neutral Feedback for buyers. This change will occur in May, 2008.
Removal of negative and neutral Feedback left by members who are suspended or who fail to respond to the Unpaid Item (UPI) Process.
Positive Feedback percentage will be based on the past 12 months of Feedback, rather than lifetime, since it is most indicative of the seller's recent performance.
Restrictions on when Feedback can be left:
Buyers must wait three days before leaving negative or neutral Feedback for sellers with an established track record
Instead of 90 days, members will be able to leave Feedback for 60 days

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I get what Ebay is doing. They want buyers to feel like they can be honest in their feedback and feel "safe" bidding. However, the threat of negative feedback is the last and only defense I have against extortion from bad bidders. Further, negative feedback is the ONLY way to warn other sellers about bidders who are dishonest or obnoxious in their dealings.

I TOTALLY get that there will be SOME benefit to the Ebay marketplace from this maneuver, but overall, this obliterates any and all incentive buyers have ever had to behave themselves and act like...well, like grown-ups in their dealings on Ebay. This may quite literally spell the end of my selling on Ebay.
 
This was talked about awhile ago when it was first announced. It still is a stupid move by eBay IMO, and I am really trying to wrap up my dealings on the site as a seller so I don't have to deal with jerk buyers that threaten negatives when I've done nothing wrong just because they can.
 
Yeah, old news, and unfortunately, another example of eBay focusing only on buyers and Power Sellers, leaving the average Joe trying to sell his crap out in the cold.
 
I saw an hour-long special on Ebay a while ago where the guy they interviewed said in a round-about way that it was in Ebay's best interest to weed out casual sellers and keep the major power-sellers operating at full capacity.

I've kept that in mind with every fee increase, etc and being the "free market" type I try not to hold it against them too much. However, the outright binding of the hands of sellers and the giving of incentive to unscrupulous buyers seems not only like a bad idea for me, but it seems like it would be counter-productive to Ebay as well. I am blown away.

Thanks for being kind about my "new" (actually old) topic. Somehow I missed the original discussion.
 
However, the outright binding of the hands of sellers and the giving of incentive to unscrupulous buyers seems not only like a bad idea for me, but it seems like it would be counter-productive to Ebay as well.
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Well, like you said, they are all about the Power Sellers. Stuff like this (coupled with the added protections they just gave PS) does not affect them much, because most people are honest. They will buy their stuff, leave good feedback, and that will be that. The one or two bums who are trying to pull a fast one can leave their bad feedback, but it will get buried in the pile of positives. Guys like us, though, if we're unlucky enough to run into some jerks, before we know it, our rating is like 90%, and a have a bunch of negatives on the front page.
 
In case you guys haven't noticed... Ebay's always been about the power sellers for 7-8 years. Power sellers get away with anything they want pretty much. I really, really, really hope a competitor comes up... even if the casual seller market is small, let's not forget that's how Ebay started.

On the plus, it will be nice to not get negative feedback anymore as a buyer. Most of these power sellers are fucking worthless... it'll be nice that they can't hold you feedback hostage anymore.
 
In case you guys haven't noticed... Ebay's always been about the power sellers for 7-8 years. Power sellers get away with anything they want pretty much. I really, really, really hope a competitor comes up... even if the casual seller market is small, let's not forget that's how Ebay started.
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A company like eBay is always going to be about the Power Sellers. If a competitor did pop up, the moment they began to encroach upon about eBay-like success, they would become an eBay clone, in the way they handle different levels of sellers. That makes perfect sense. They are getting a majority of their business from them. Offering them more benefits is not only acceptable, but it is something that most level-headed people should welcome. If we were Power Sellers, we would want special privileges, as well.

The problem, of course, comes in when they ONLY look to benefit Power Sellers. Completely screwing over anyone else who wants to sell is unacceptable. At this point, they are absolutely stacking the deck against the average Joe.
On the plus, it will be nice to not get negative feedback anymore as a buyer. Most of these power sellers are fucking worthless... it'll be nice that they can't hold you feedback hostage anymore.
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I never understood why buyers are worried about feedback, anyway. It really can't do much against you. Unless you have a negative feedback rating, which would more than likely mean you're an ass, anyway, it isn't like negative feedback can really affect you buying anything on eBay.

And if you're concerned that it will affect you selling stuff, simply use a secondary account for buying stuff. Or just don't worry about it. I wouldn't never let my dealings with a seller be affected by one negative left by some random seller.
 
You know, I agree with what you guys are saying, most power sellers stink. I just hit Gold Power Seller last month and I have excellent feedback, and I always leave positive feedback as soon as an item is PAID FOR, not after I get feedback, which I've always felt was a ridiculously shady thing for people to do. I'm sitting at over 5200 feedback, 99.6% positive, and 4.7-4.8 5 star Detailed Seller Ratings.

Do I worry about feedback hostage? No, because every single buyer can do that to me right now as it is, since I'm one of the good sellers who don't wait until they get a positive to leave a positive. The negatives I DO have are all pretty stupid, stuff I would have worked out if the buyer talked to me before leaving it, or didn't ignore me after I tried to resolve it after the fact.

eBay is not really as bad as everyone thinks.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']I never understood why buyers are worried about feedback, anyway. It really can't do much against you.[/quote]

There are quite a few sellers out there that refuse to sell to buyers with any negative feedback. Normally it isn't a big deal as one can just jump to another auction or message them to explain the situation and ask for an exception. Still, I don't think I've seen any powersellers do this so I'm sure it will become even less of an issue with these changes.

[quote name='Cmosfm']I always leave positive feedback as soon as an item is PAID FOR, not after I get feedback, which I've always felt was a ridiculously shady thing for people to do.[/quote]

It's shady if the seller withholds feedback for the sole purpose of threatening a retaliation. In my case, I wait until the buyer has received the item and closed out the sale (either by messaging me or leaving feedback). For those of us not in the powerseller-level of ratings, a single negative can be quite damning.

By no means will I leave a negative just because I received one, but if I were to get a negative from a buyer without an explanation or message first, a neutral would definitely be justified. Communication is just as important from the buyer as from the seller.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Hopefully I'll be done with Ebay for a loooong while after I sell this batch of stuff I've got piling up.[/QUOTE]

I was hoping to get some things sold as I'm too busy with school. I wish they would've started the new system in June, rather than May.
 
[quote name='Vinny']I was hoping to get some things sold as I'm too busy with school. I wish they would've started the new system in June, rather than May.[/QUOTE]


That was exactly my thinking. It's a pain to drive home and start selling and shipping shit... and the fact you can only deal on teh weekends makes everything more difficult. Still, this moronic Ebay move along with the others have prompted me to start my trade list up here again.
 
[quote name='thelonepig']There are quite a few sellers out there that refuse to sell to buyers with any negative feedback. Normally it isn't a big deal as one can just jump to another auction or message them to explain the situation and ask for an exception. Still, I don't think I've seen any powersellers do this so I'm sure it will become even less of an issue with these changes.



It's shady if the seller withholds feedback for the sole purpose of threatening a retaliation. In my case, I wait until the buyer has received the item and closed out the sale (either by messaging me or leaving feedback). For those of us not in the powerseller-level of ratings, a single negative can be quite damning.

By no means will I leave a negative just because I received one, but if I were to get a negative from a buyer without an explanation or message first, a neutral would definitely be justified. Communication is just as important from the buyer as from the seller.[/QUOTE]

I hold everybody hostage. It's not a malicious thing, but there are WAY too many bidders who hassle me EVERY day "Why didn't my item get here yet? I paid for it IMMEDIATELY!?!?!?!!! (1 day after sale)". Feedback is the one thing standing between me being on even ground with them and me being their doormat.

And when somebody blames ME because the Canadian customs department delayed their delivery by a week (which happens now with about 50% of shipments I send to Canada - I swear they are utterly incompetent up there), the ONLY thing keeping them from negging me is the threat that I will neg them back.

And yes, something as simple as a bidder being so impatient as to leave negative feedback for me because they can't lash out at their own postal service is more than enough to swing the transaction from "positive" to "negative" for me in rating the transaction. I have never understood the idea of "I leave positive AS SOON AS I GET PAID". There's so much bad that can go on form the buyer after you get paid I don't even know where to start.

By the way, in general I meet or exceed expectations of bidders both on quality of product and in speed of shipments. It really is the (whatever percentage of) bidders and not just me complaining that I don't hold all the cards, etc. I would just like to hold ONE card.
 
I think it's awesome. I'm so fucking sick of being afraid of leaving a negative or even neutral feedback for a seller. I know that it sucks for a lot of honest sellers out there, and they are punishing everyone for the crimes of a relative few, but I'm sick of sellers bullying people, and I think this is one of the only solutions.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']I think it's awesome. I'm so fucking sick of being afraid of leaving a negative or even neutral feedback for a seller. I know that it sucks for a lot of honest sellers out there, and they are punishing everyone for the crimes of a relative few, but I'm sick of sellers bullying people, and I think this is one of the only solutions.[/QUOTE]

Hell yeah! I think if this gets MORE buyers to ebay, then that's the point of it all. More sales for me!
 
[quote name='Cmosfm']Hell yeah! I think if this gets MORE buyers to ebay, then that's the point of it all. More sales for me![/QUOTE]

If it gets MORE DISHONEST buyers to ebay (nearly completely eliminating any and all accountability to buyers), then it failed. More hassles for YOU and ME!
 
Meh, I think eBay stop being "ebay" when they start catering more toward power sellers a long time ago.

After all, isn't eBay suppose to be about just normal people trying to get rid of some stuff (kinda like a national garage sale in a way), not an established store?
 
I pretty much stopped selling anything with the last round of fee increases. I just listed a few things Saturday that I need to get rid of but I will be using eBay far less as a buyer and seller from now on. I just don't like the direction they are taking. And note I own stock in eBay ;).

But in general I have enjoyed not wasting all the time I used to spend dealing with eBay issues. Much of that time is going towards playing games now.

The thing that really turned me off was that the email that announced the fee increases made it sound like a cut in rates was happening. This is in fact the case for some of the listing fees. They made a big point of highlighting those very minor fee reductions and then just tossed all the huge increases into a postscript. It was very annoying and insulting all at once. If they had flat out announced the fee increases and then presented the minor reductions as a small concession it wouldn't have been so bad.

Same thing (though less extreme) for this feedback deal - I see it as fairly negative (and at best neutral), yet they spin it super-positive. Whatever... As others have said, for people who are just buyers, what the hell difference does it make if you get a few negs from sellers? It doesn't effect anything. But on the flip side a buyer who wants to scam a seller would do it anyway and not care for the feedback so I'm not sure too much will change.
 
I just left negative feed back a few minutes ago, because some poeple just bid to waste time they don't care that you have to wait two weeks to remove it and in the feedback i warned others of him it sucks that seller won't be able to help each other out anymore
 
[quote name='io']The thing that really turned me off was that the email that announced the fee increases made it sound like a cut in rates was happening. This is in fact the case for some of the listing fees. They made a big point of highlighting those very minor fee reductions and then just tossed all the huge increases into a postscript. It was very annoying and insulting all at once. If they had flat out announced the fee increases and then presented the minor reductions as a small concession it wouldn't have been so bad.[/quote]

This is what really irked me too. eBay pulled exactly what it tells it cautions its sellers not to do.

The other big deterrent to me is eBay's change to its new/used classifications. It used to be very clear that a new item should include the unbroken factory seal. Back in February, that was entirely removed and the line between new and used was blurred so much that you don't know what you're going to get any more.
 
[quote name='chosen1s']If it gets MORE DISHONEST buyers to ebay (nearly completely eliminating any and all accountability to buyers), then it failed. More hassles for YOU and ME![/quote]

Exactly. It also takes away a lot of average sellers, thus helping to decrease the number of a certain item being available, raising the final prices of all auctions. All in all, bad for just about anyone in the eBay community, except for jerks and Power Sellers.
 
Anyone notice how nearly all of eBay's new changes are ripped off ideas from how Amazon works? Of course made even worse by eBay's spin on it.
 
This took effect today, even for transactions that took place before today. Also the new feedback % system in in place. Nice to have 100% positive feedback again but now, 1 negative will bring me into the low 99% area versus 1 negative with the old system would have still left me at 99.9% positive.
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']This took effect today, even for transactions that took place before today. Also the new feedback % system in in place. Nice to have 100% positive feedback again but now, 1 negative will bring me into the low 99% area versus 1 negative with the old system would have still left me at 99.9% positive.[/quote]

Yeah, I don't care for this new aspect of the feedback system, turning neutrals into negatives percentage-wise. I've always had 100% positive feedback until now, but I'll have to wait at least 6 months to get my perfect score back. I don't really give a damn, but who knows what goes through the mind of a buyer.
 
I didn't know neutrals did that now. Why bother even having neutral then if it counts as a negative?

There are buyers out there who will only buy from 100% positive feedback sellers, even though they are wrong since if you sell a lot it's impossible to have 100% positive feedback, even if you do everything right. I have 3 negatives all of which were undeserved but they are not in my percentage since they are old.
 
So neutral counts as negative now? What a weird change, personally I think they should have gotten rid of neutral a long time ago anyway. If the transaction was bad enough to warrant it then it really was a bad transaction. Neutral is basically the official way of just not leaving feedback.

Figures, I already have one person I will probably end up needing to leave negative feedback, thanks ebay!
 
[quote name='coolsteel']So neutral counts as negative now? What a weird change, personally I think they should have gotten rid of neutral a long time ago anyway. If the transaction was bad enough to warrant it then it really was a bad transaction. Neutral is basically the official way of just not leaving feedback.

Figures, I already have one person I will probably end up needing to leave negative feedback, thanks ebay![/QUOTE]
I think it should stay but not affect the store. Neutral should of stayed the way it was...it was neither a positive or negative.

If a transaction went sour but the seller was willing to solve or fix the problem, thats where i think the neutral comes in play.

I also noticed that my feedback jumped. It was at 1009 and now its at 1046
 
This is great news since that negative I got one time simply vanished leaving me with a clean 100% while that buyer will allways have that negative and what a negative that was. Ha ha you can't leave negative feedback if your the buyer, ha ha ha.

Personally I like the idea since as the buyer you send payment first for the most part. The thing is leaving feedback late makes your score go down.

Ha ha you can't leave negative feedback if your the buyer, ha ha ha.
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Wooooppppieeeee!!!!!!!!!!! now let me go back to Ebailing
 
My percentages remain at 100%, but since I have so little activity in the last year, a bad one would really hurt me.

On the other hand, when the new system went in to place my feedback went from 319 to 357. Not sure why, but that's what happened.

TBW
 
[quote name='Redie']Ha ha you can't leave negative feedback if your the buyer, ha ha ha.[/quote]
No no no, you're mistaken. Sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore. Buyers can still leave all the negative feedback they want.
 
[quote name='Redie']This is great news since that negative I got one time simply vanished leaving me with a clean 100% while that buyer will allways have that negative and what a negative that was. Ha ha you can't leave negative feedback if your the buyer, ha ha ha.

Personally I like the idea since as the buyer you send payment first for the most part. The thing is leaving feedback late makes your score go down.



Wooooppppieeeee!!!!!!!!!!! now let me go back to Ebailing[/QUOTE]
Ummm...buyers can leave whatever feedback they like whether it be positive, neutal or negative. Its sellers that can not leave negative or neutral for buyers
[quote name='TheBlueWizard']My percentages remain at 100%, but since I have so little activity in the last year, a bad one would really hurt me.

On the other hand, when the new system went in to place my feedback went from 319 to 357. Not sure why, but that's what happened.

TBW[/QUOTE]
Same happened to me. The reason it went up is because previously, when you bought something from a seller multiple times, your feedback doesnt go up. Now, if you purchased from that seller multiple times and they dont leave you feedback within the same week, the feedback will count as 1. So any previous multiple transactions will the same seller is not counted.
 
I like this change for buyers, because sellers can submit NPD.... but buyers sorta get dicked.

My only negative feedback is from a seller, who merely responded to my negative feedback in spite. He never sent my product and, after 2 months, he kept claiming he sent them certified (but never gave me a confirmation number). Needless to say, that was just the start of his crappy customer service... when he pulled the same stunt 27 more times before getting removed.

So yes, I like this change. I, however, won't use ebay to sell because of that fee hike.
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']I didn't know neutrals did that now. Why bother even having neutral then if it counts as a negative?

There are buyers out there who will only buy from 100% positive feedback sellers, even though they are wrong since if you sell a lot it's impossible to have 100% positive feedback, even if you do everything right. I have 3 negatives all of which were undeserved but they are not in my percentage since they are old.[/quote]

Neutral feedback should take away from the percentage. Think about it: the feedback percentage has always been xx% of positive feedback. Neutral isn't positive.
 
[quote name='scott2hotcott']Neutral feedback should take away from the percentage. Think about it: the feedback percentage has always been xx% of positive feedback. Neutral isn't positive.[/QUOTE]

But by the very definition neutral isn't negative either, it is neither here nor there, right smack in between.
 
[quote name='coolsteel']But by the very definition neutral isn't negative either, it is neither here nor there, right smack in between.[/quote]

I didn't say neutral was negative, it's just not positive. The eBay feedback specifically says % of positive. Either way, eBay is getting pretty crappy now.
 
[quote name='Cmosfm']since I'm one of the good sellers who don't wait until they get a positive to leave a positive. [/Quote]

I'm a fb last seller and I consider myself a good seller. My buyers do too my fb jumped to 100% on Monday.:) *knock on wood*


The negatives I DO have are all pretty stupid, stuff I would have worked out if the buyer talked to me before leaving it, or didn't ignore me after I tried to resolve it after the fact.
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They had no incentive to they got their positive fb from you. Most buyers are honest people that are willing to work out problems but inevitably you'll get the a-hole that is impossible to please and wants to ruin your fb because he or she can. Without negative fb there is nothing to stop people like this from ruining a good seller's Ebay reputation. For a low volume seller one neg from a person like this is enough to ruin their fb score and make their items nearly invisible in Ebay's default best match search.l

And don't get me started on non-paying bidders still being allowed to leave fb.
 
[quote name='chosen1s']I hold everybody hostage. It's not a malicious thing, but there are WAY too many bidders who hassle me EVERY day "Why didn't my item get here yet? I paid for it IMMEDIATELY!?!?!?!!! (1 day after sale)". Feedback is the one thing standing between me being on even ground with them and me being their doormat.

And when somebody blames ME because the Canadian customs department delayed their delivery by a week (which happens now with about 50% of shipments I send to Canada - I swear they are utterly incompetent up there), the ONLY thing keeping them from negging me is the threat that I will neg them back.

And yes, something as simple as a bidder being so impatient as to leave negative feedback for me because they can't lash out at their own postal service is more than enough to swing the transaction from "positive" to "negative" for me in rating the transaction. I have never understood the idea of "I leave positive AS SOON AS I GET PAID". There's so much bad that can go on form the buyer after you get paid I don't even know where to start.

By the way, in general I meet or exceed expectations of bidders both on quality of product and in speed of shipments. It really is the (whatever percentage of) bidders and not just me complaining that I don't hold all the cards, etc. I would just like to hold ONE card.[/QUOTE]


Excellent post. I too prefer to rate the entire transaction.

I have been a fb last seller since I received my one and only neg from a buyer that never told me about a problem never gave me a chance to make things right. It stung so much to see the hurtful comments this buyer left for me after I left a glowing positive fb. Thankfully that fb doesn't count against me anymore.:)

I will continue to be a fb last seller but there will undoubtably be people that will begin to neg sellers if they don't receive their positive fb after making payment or who make demands like ship to unconfirmed address, lower shipping rate etc. and threaten neg fb if they don't get their way. I don't want to deal with those headaches so I have begun looking into selling on other venues. Amazon?
 
[quote name='CGH']Excellent post. I too prefer to rate the entire transaction.

I have been a fb last seller since I received my one and only neg from a buyer that never told me about a problem never gave me a chance to make things right. It stung so much to see the hurtful comments this buyer left for me after I left a glowing positive fb. Thankfully that fb doesn't count against me anymore.:)

I will continue to be a fb last seller but undoubtably there will be people that will begin to neg sellers if they don't receive their positive fb after making payment or who make demands like ship to unconfirmed address, lower shipping rate etc. and threaten neg fb if they don't get their way. I don't want to deal with those headaches so I have begun looking into selling on other venues. Amazon?[/quote]

I started a thread on this also. I need some info on other sites to sell items. I looked at Amazon's fee structure and it seemed about the same. Is this correct?
 
i just got negative fb from an ahole who never gave me a chance to make things right. He recieved it like one week ago. I think that was the time negative fb was still possible to give to buyers. He waited until they changed the fb policy and BAM! a negative for all the hard work i put in to the 100% fb. I think im going to give up ebay and start somewhere else. It is so obvious that ebay doesn't welcome sellers who start now.

I think ebay should have a separate fb counter for buying and selling. There are some people who are good buyers but poor sellers, some good sellers but poor buyers or both. This way the fb is better maintained and more important to look for.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']I started a thread on this also. I need some info on other sites to sell items. I looked at Amazon's fee structure and it seemed about the same. Is this correct?[/quote]

Last time I looked they were comparable, about the time of the last eBay price increase. That's my problem with eBay; The prices are so high I have a hard time even breaking even selling the extra games I get for trading here.
I gave up on making a profit at eBay a long time ago.

I care much less about the buyer feedback issue, I am actually one of the buyers who got burned with a negative buyer feedback from a dishonest seller. The power seller denied I returned an item and ended up with my cash and the item.

Which was relisted and sold again later.
 
I agree that neutral shouldn't count towards the percentage. I've had 100% for almost 10 years now on eBay...and now I have 99.7% or something because one guy leaves me a neutral saying "Additional £'s to be paid once arrived the UK.Adaptor US compatible only!"

This was for a Zelda DS I sold to a buyer in Great Britain. I told them VERY CLEARLY on the auction that it was a US System and that an adapter was needed to use in Europe and that they may be responsible for VAT taxes. Nothing I can do about any of those things and I mentioned them about 10 times in the listing....but still I got neutral. It didn't bother me much then, but now that it hurts my percentage...so unfair.

I don't like the way eBay is turning either. It used to be an amazing place to buy/sell but nowadays it really is becoming awfully tarnished :( We really need G-Bay (Google's eBay rumored eBay killer =p)
 
Another thing, Amazon's fees are very similar but you save a lot of time not having to create fancy listings and such. I still use eBay for hard-to-find items and for games I need to sell, but it's no longer my main way to sell games these days. You're far better off trading them on Goozex/CAG/GameTZ, etc. for the most part.

Heck, even trading to Gamestop is again becoming a viable option as you get the credit instantly and with sales like extra 30-40% off it sometimes means you actually get more than eBay. Never thought I'd see the day =P
 
Unfortunately, I still have a few things I need to sell, but I'm very hesitant to list them on ebay due to the feedback change. Some of the things I suppose I can wait until EB has a trade in deal, though I'd rather not have my money tied up there. Other things are non gaming items and I don't know what to do with them.
 
In regards to Amazon. I just looked at some info on a webstore. It says it is $60 a month plus a 7% referral fee on items sold.


Now that is actually less than Ebay as Ebay works out to about 10% if Im not mistaken, plus then you have paypal. I could be wrong but I think that is pretty much what it works out to on your normal priced video games.

Now does Amazon take care of the payment process or is there going to be paypal fees on top of that 7%?

Thanks for the help if anyone has done the webstore before.
 
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