Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='mykevermin']I dunno. Fox announced Master and Commander (for the third time?) today, and also MRS DOUBTFIRE! for BD.

Read 'em and weep. Mrs. Doubtfire says "it's ovah!" ;)[/quote]

lol

you crack me up kid

but you raised a good concern... where the fuck is Master and Commander and Independence Day on Blu?!

2 films I want, no... need in HD ;)
 
[quote name='benjamouth']Oh I'm sorry I didn't actively support your trolling, I guess the folks over at Joystiq are more easily riled.

As someone who spent over 2 grand on a high def tv a few years ago I shall tell you exactly why I'm happy with DVD. The jump in quality isn't enough between DVD and HD discs for me to justify spending money on over priced HD discs for movies I probably already have or have seen.

And people can tell me all day, every day that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is so much better than DVD, but I don't see it. Maybe I need to spend even more money, but at the end of the day I have better things to spend my money on than the hunt for slightly better picture quality.

HD does not make movies better, it just makes them look a bit better, and thats not the most important thing for me. Most of the time I just want to see the film.

The reason I called that statement moronic is because it was a gross generalisation, and an unfounded one at that.[/quote]

Go away we dont need someone trolling.

We have more important issues to discuss, such as the transfer of mrs.doubtfire.
 
[quote name='dallow']You do realize that HDM adoption has been growing faster than DVD in the same time period right?

Even in Europe where HDTV penetration is way lower than here.

Don't expect HDM sales to even get close to DVD for at least 3 years.
That doesn't mean the sales sucks, it means it's growing, and it takes years.
[/quote]

Take that like a grain of sand. More people buy into optical disk media today than in the past. Americans (mainly) also continue their exponentially growing status of spending more than they make. Remember that the core business for VHS was in rentals and the transition slowly turned with DVD.

There's a ton of factors on why we see HDM's adoption being larger than DVD but pricing is what could make or break HDM as a niche or adopted model. It's very hard to get the average person into an HDTV (unless of course they are looking to upgrade and/or replace their broken set. I say this because 90% of people I know don't own HDTVs lol), followed by an HDM player, and to fully benefit an HT surround setup. It's very hard to get people away from bargain bin shopping. Plus, wasn't DVD's catalog well over 1000 in it's first year? I can go on and it's great to see HDM growing but comparing it's adoption to DVD in it's first year is apples to oranges in my book. Too many factors are in play for something that might seem to be a similar business model.

I'm all for HDM replacing SD though.
 
[quote name='InuFaye']Go away we dont need someone trolling.

We have more important issues to discuss, such as the transfer of mrs.doubtfire.[/quote]

Actually I was answering something I was accused off.

So go ahead and STFU.
 
[quote name='jimbodan']I think you should stop spending 2 grand on tv's until you buy some glasses.[/QUOTE]:lol:

Anyway, I'm personally thinking Toshiba will want to clear HD-DVD inventory (the players) first before officially announcing they are pulling the format out. Once they do, selling an HD-DVD player may be harder and Toshiba might have them sent back.
 
[quote name='The Mana Knight']:lol:

Anyway, I'm personally thinking Toshiba will want to clear HD-DVD inventory (the players) first before officially announcing they are pulling the format out. Once they do, selling an HD-DVD player may be harder and Toshiba might have them sent back.[/QUOTE]

That is what I was thinking. Everyone expects this large fire sale, but unless that comes down from Toshiba and retailers get reimbursed for the loss on the items I don't think we will see it. Retailers send movies back all the time when they don't sell, instead of marking them down to "firesale" prices. Unless Toshiba is willing to front the firesale with their dollars, I don't think we will see one.
 
[quote name='benjamouth']Actually I was answering something I was accused off.

So go ahead and STFU.[/QUOTE]

If you've got nothing to say about Mrs. Doubtfire in hi def then you've got nothing to say.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I dunno. Fox announced Master and Commander (for the third time?) today, and also MRS DOUBTFIRE! for BD.

Read 'em and weep. Mrs. Doubtfire says "it's ovah!" ;)[/QUOTE]

FOX can do me a favor and start announcing release dates for the few foreign titles they own. Give me "Daywatch" and for fucks sake, "Volcano High" with KOREAN Lossless. I have no idea when "Volcano High" will come out from Toshiba on BR after all.
I hope Toshiba modifies these unit's they're grabbing to Combo status. Basically use the guts for a limited combo stock bit. I mean taking the A35 and upgrading it to Blu wouldn't be terribly difficult imo. This is a truly full featured player on Toshiba's side of things. DTS-MA bitstreaming, Dolby TrueHD decoding. The only thing really missing would be DTS-MA decoding for HDM which would be brilliant. Someone remind me, can either the combo LG or Samsung bitstream DTS-MA or what? I mean the newer model in terms of the LG.
 
[quote name='benjamouth']Actually I was answering something I was accused off.

So go ahead and STFU.[/quote]

REPORTED!

No one bags on mrs. doubtfire.
 
Just thought I'd post this here too.

Gamestop is apparently only accepting trade ins on the 360 attachment until Thursday.

EDIT:

Also, Toshiba's official announcement is coming at 5pm Tokyo time.

12 AM PST/3 AM EST
 
[quote name='dallow']Just thought I'd post this here too.

Gamestop is apparently only accepting trade ins on the 360 attachment until Thursday.

EDIT:

Also, Toshiba's official announcement is coming at 5pm Tokyo time.

12 AM PST/3 AM EST[/QUOTE]

Announcement at 5:00, hara-kiri to follow at 5:30.
 
so what happens to all those HD-DVD's? everyone's gonna still sell them at MSRP or bb, cc, and everyone else going to major sales? like 50% off, B2G2 Free?
 
They had better clear inventory and not do a physical recall....There's a few titles I still want, and I need a backup/upgrade player (XA2/A35).
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']so what happens to all those HD-DVD's? everyone's gonna still sell them at MSRP or bb, cc, and everyone else going to major sales? like 50% off, B2G2 Free?[/QUOTE]

Landfill. Just adjacent to the one with all the old Atari E.T. carts. In 100 years, a new civilization will be built upon it. Children will tread over the slowly decaying discs unaware, happily enjoying hi def movies via digital distribution.
 
[quote name='benjamouth']Oh I'm sorry I didn't actively support your trolling, I guess the folks over at Joystiq are more easily riled.

As someone who spent over 2 grand on a high def tv a few years ago I shall tell you exactly why I'm happy with DVD. The jump in quality isn't enough between DVD and HD discs for me to justify spending money on over priced HD discs for movies I probably already have or have seen.

And people can tell me all day, every day that HD-DVD/Blu-Ray is so much better than DVD, but I don't see it. Maybe I need to spend even more money, but at the end of the day I have better things to spend my money on than the hunt for slightly better picture quality.

HD does not make movies better, it just makes them look a bit better, and thats not the most important thing for me. Most of the time I just want to see the film.

The reason I called that statement moronic is because it was a gross generalisation, and an unfounded one at that.[/quote]

And yet you are the moron in the HDDVD vs Blu-ray thread. You call me a troll, yet you are the one not interested in any HD format and are posting on an HD Format thread, stating that there is no reason to upgrade to the HD Format... do you even know the definition of a troll?

As expected, everyone's jumping on the rumors as truth rather than holding out for the actual statements.

But I think they are just buying time to move software/hardware. I don't think they'll publicly drop the format but more so phase it out slowly. I think Tosh now sees that HDM won't adopt as fast as most think it will and their DVD business will continue to strive. I don't mind 2 formats, whether its HD DVD and Blu-ray or HDM and SD DVD
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I agree with this. It's like they released it as a rumor just to see how people would act and then everyone was like, "time to stop!" so they back out and were like. "Jk! For now..." It's bound to happen.
 
Like I said before, unless Toshiba is willing to foot the bill for the "fire sale" it will probably be a physical recall. Stores don't want to take the loss for Toshiba's failure.
 
Guyver looks different with a Kimbo Slice avatar. I've been used to Goldberg for so many years.

[quote name='Chitown021']How long until Transformers hit Bluray?[/QUOTE]

A highly, highly reliable Blu-Ray insider has confirmed that it's in the works, with an AVC video encode and PCM audio - but no date given. I think it's safe to say "this year," but other than that, I wouldn't believe what anyone says.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']A 360 BD player is in the works? I doubt it - after all, Sony would lose PS3 sales if such a peripheral were made, wouldn't they?

I think MS is going to rely on promoting XBLM for the remainder of the 360's lifespan.[/QUOTE]

Exactly the point.

And today we have THIS press release from Microsoft:

Microsoft says end of HD DVD won't hurt Xbox 360updated
3:53 p.m. ET, Mon., Feb. 18, 2008

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp does not expect sales of its Xbox 360 game console to suffer if Toshiba Corp discontinues HD DVD technology, Microsoft said in a statement on Monday.

"We do not believe the recent reports about HD DVD will have any material impact on the Xbox 360 platform or our position in the marketplace," the company said. "We will wait until we hear from Toshiba before announcing any specific plans around the Xbox 360 HD DVD player."

Xbox 360 supports a plug-in HD DVD accessory that allows customers to view high definition DVDs produced only with this Toshiba technology.

Toshiba sources said on Saturday that the company is preparing to exit the HD DVD business, thereby surrendering a two-year battle to control the format of next-generation DVDs.

Customers would be left to buy high-definition DVDs produced with Blu-ray, an alternate technology controlled by Sony Corp.

The Microsoft statement pledged that Xbox 360 customers would continue to be able to consume high-definition movies, television programs, and DVDs they already own.

In January, a Microsoft executive said the company would be open to supporting Blu-Ray technology for its Xbox 360 machine.

(Reporting by Amanda Beck; Editing by Andrea Ricci)

Copyright 2008 Reuters. Click for restrictions.
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The BR-XBox marriage is coming I tell ya. They may not be engaged yet, but they're sure making lovey-dovey eyes!
 
Does Sony "own" blu-ray? Might they prevent MS from getting access to it for their add-ons? Blu-ray capability is a very compelling reason for people to buy a PS3. A 360 core + add-on would be around the same price as a PS3, making the decision slightly more complicated.
 
I'll let the authority speak on that:
BDA says Toshiba & Microsoft welcome to join Blu
"Microsoft and Toshiba are more than welcome to join the Blu-ray camp and would be valuable additions if they did. That’s what the Blu-ray Disc Association’s spokesperson, Frank Simonis, said when he spoke to TechRadar from Japan this afternoon.

“Of course we have always said that Toshiba and Microsoft, and any other company, is more than welcome to join the Blu-ray Disc Association. We are an open organisation, with an open disc standard. If Toshiba decides to drop HD DVD we would extend the hand of friendship to them, they are always welcome to join,” he said.

Simonis also empathised with Toshiba, saying that it’s in a very difficult position. He said that any decision to join the BDA would be very difficult for Toshiba, having supported a rival format for so long.

Blu-ray vs HD DVD

Simonis was responding to two stories relating to the two HD DVD-supporting companies. The first was that Microsoft might be planning on launching an Xbox 360 console with a Blu-ray drive inside, and the second is that Toshiba might be about to finally give up on HD DVD.

“Microsoft could easily put Blu-ray inside the Xbox,” said Simonis. “From my understanding Microsoft did an early evaluation and the Xbox has a similar processor to the PS3 so it will be perfectly capable of decoding a Blu-ray disc.

“So technically it could do it. All Microsoft would have to do is acquire a BD licence,” he said.

Simonis dismissed the notion that Sony might be uncomfortable with Microsoft joining the Blu-ray camp. Some say that it’s unlikely that Sony would want Microsoft to put a Blu-ray drive in the Xbox – because then it would be an even bigger threat to the PS3.

But Simonis said that Sony would not be able to stop such a move.

“Sony has nothing to say on this. The BDA is an open organisation and no one company is in charge of it. It’s irrelevant whether Sony would be happy about Microsoft joining up, because it wouldn’t have a say.”

Death of HD DVD?

Regarding Toshiba’s supposedly imminent amputation of its HD DVD arm, Simonis remained dignified and said that it was too early to declare victory for Blu-ray and would not speculate on when the BD format would finally win out.

He also rubbished claims that digital downloads will spell an early death for the Blu-ray disc format.

“Downloading a 4.7GB movie is still an absolute pain for most people. So what would it be to download a 50GB 1080p movie? It would take an extraordinary amount of time and people are just not ready for such things,” he said.

“When it comes to ownership of content, we’ve seen the research: people like to have a physical disc in their hand. With a real box and real case lining. Downloads don’t offer people what they want.”"

By James Rivington
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http://www.techradar.com/news/video/blu-ray/blu-ray-toshiba-and-microsoft-should-join-us-237468

If Sony (or the BDA at large) even attempted to deny Toshiba membership in the BDA, they'd be slapped with an antitrust suit in a matter of seconds. But as you see above, that is the furthest possible thing from the BDA's intention. And it's their choice to make, not Sony's.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Guyver looks different with a Kimbo Slice avatar. I've been used to Goldberg for so many years.



A highly, highly reliable Blu-Ray insider has confirmed that it's in the works, with an AVC video encode and PCM audio - but no date given. I think it's safe to say "this year," but other than that, I wouldn't believe what anyone says.[/quote]

If I had to guess, July 4th, or the one year anniversary of the movie being released. Plus, it's a big weekend.

And geko, once again your insight is much appreciated, like I and many others have said along, the BDA owns Blu-ray not Sony, so they have no say in it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=994913

And interesting discussion on AVS on why Sony can't do anything in not letting MSFT and Toshiba in. Long story short, Blu-ray was co-developed by Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic and Philips. So quite Frankly, Sony only has 25% of the IP of Blu-ray, and Panasonic owns just as much of it as they do, and was just as crucial in developing it. Does Sony have the most to gain? Well only right now because they had to make most of the blu-ray diode plants and blu-ray drives to put in the PS3, but besides that, they don't own that much of it. And if you hate all 4 of those companies, well then you must hate quality because there are few people who make better products than Pioneer, Panasonic and Sony.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']guess it's time to put my hd-dvd add on drive and hd-dvd movies on my trade list.[/QUOTE]

I can't wait to see the A35 drop in price further.
 
[quote name='iNCREDiPiNOY']34 minutes left![/QUOTE]

wow... it's like I am waiting around for bad news that I know is coming. After this announcement we all got to post how much we invested in this format before the death of it.
 
音響機器メーカーのオンキヨーが、北米と欧州で販売している高画質ＤＶＤ規格「ＨＤ　ＤＶＤ」のプレーヤー（再生専用機）の販売中止を検討していることが１９日 、わかった。

　オンキヨーは「ＨＤ　ＤＶＤ」規格を主導してきた東芝から部品などを調達してきたが、東芝が「ＨＤ　ＤＶＤ」事業からの撤退を１９日午後に正式発表する ことに なり、今後の製造や販売が困難になると判断した模様だ。販売を中止する時期などは今後、決める。購入者へのアフターサービスは継続する見通しだ。

　オンキヨーは、自社の主力製品のアンプやスピーカーなどの音響機器の販売拡大につながるとして、昨年１１月から北米と欧州向けに「ＨＤ　ＤＶＤ」プレーヤー１ 機種の販売を始めた。日本では販売していない。
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Announced full stop of HD-DVD production. Service and repair continue for the time being, however repair parts will cease to be available after eight years.



Later guys.

Live blog here:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/19/live-from-toshibas-hd-dvd-press-conference-in-tokyo/
 
Toshiba Announces Discontinuation of HD DVD Businesses

19 February, 2008

Company Remains Focused on Championing Consumer Access to High Definition Content

TOKYO--Toshiba Corporation today announced that it has undertaken a thorough review of its overall strategy for HD DVD and has decided it will no longer develop, manufacture and market HD DVD players and recorders. This decision has been made following recent major changes in the market. Toshiba will continue, however, to provide full product support and after-sales service for all owners of Toshiba HD DVD products.

HD DVD was developed to offer consumers access at an affordable price to high-quality, high definition content and prepare them for the digital convergence of tomorrow where the fusion of consumer electronics and IT will continue to progress.

"We carefully assessed the long-term impact of continuing the so-called 'next-generation format war' and concluded that a swift decision will best help the market develop," said Atsutoshi Nishida, President and CEO of Toshiba Corporation. "While we are disappointed for the company and more importantly, for the consumer, the real mass market opportunity for high definition content remains untapped and Toshiba is both able and determined to use our talent, technology and intellectual property to make digital convergence a reality."

Toshiba will continue to lead innovation, in a wide range of technologies that will drive mass market access to high definition content. These include high capacity NAND flash memory, small form factor hard disk drives, next generation CPUs, visual processing, and wireless and encryption technologies. The company expects to make forthcoming announcements around strategic progress in these convergence technologies.

Toshiba will begin to reduce shipments of HD DVD players and recorders to retail channels, aiming for cessation of these businesses by the end of March 2008. Toshiba also plans to end volume production of HD DVD disk drives for such applications as PCs and games in the same timeframe, yet will continue to make efforts to meet customer requirements. The company will continue to assess the position of notebook PCs with integrated HD DVD drives within the overall PC business relative to future market demand.

This decision will not impact on Toshiba's commitment to standard DVD, and the company will continue to market conventional DVD players and recorders. Toshiba intends to continue to contribute to the development of the DVD industry, as a member of the DVD Forum, an international organization with some 200 member companies, committed to the discussion and defining of optimum optical disc formats for the consumer and the related industries.

Toshiba also intends to maintain collaborative relations with the companies who joined with Toshiba in working to build up the HD DVD market, including Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Animation and major Japanese and European content providers on the entertainment side, as well as leaders in the IT industry, including Microsoft, Intel, and HP. Toshiba will study possible collaboration with these companies for future business opportunities, utilizing the many assets generated through the development of HD DVD.
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:cry:
 
I'll be locking this thread within the next couple days...it was fun while it lasted guys...thanks to the couple of you who brought great insight and fun debates and many thanks to geko29 who was the most tech savvy and civil poster :bow:
 
I think geko secretly hates all of us deep down inside.

I say lock it after the Paramount and Universal press releases.
Or when Ken is fired.
 
[quote name='Demolition Man']For all of us who supported HD-DVD....

:grouphug:

Its been a fun ride. Thanks Toshiba for giving us an alternative to Blu-ray for HD disc based content.[/quote]

Word.
:cry::applause::bow:
 
Not really. They are still fantastic upconverting DVD players plus there is still a nice library of movies out on HD-DVD. The only movie I'm pissed that won't be out on HD-DVD that could of been is Barry Lyndon.
 
Hehehe...

Wow...

I really did not expect HDDVD to go down so fast and so hard. I was expecting it to decline around 2009 and then finally be gone by late 2010. I thought this war would be dragged out.

Pretty sweet! Ugh, so many people made fun of me for saying I am with Bluray. "Yea! Like Sony ever has a winning format!" or "People see the name DVD in the title so they will all choose that!".

Heh... Good fun.
 
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