Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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Bought my first blu-ray in a while (last one I bought was in August, I think?). Kinda stopped buying BDs around the time HD acquired Paramount and the $99 players hit. It kinda seemed like the war would've dragged on and on, but now I'll probably be buying them more frequently.

Just picked up Pan's Labyrinth from Fry's. First time I bought a BD that wasn't on sale either. It was $27.99, which isn't all that bad, and I was really itching to watch it. Didn't feel like waiting for a sale.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Bought my first blu-ray in a while (last one I bought was in August, I think?). Kinda stopped buying BDs around the time HD acquired Paramount and the $99 players hit. It kinda seemed like the war would've dragged on and on, but now I'll probably be buying them more frequently.

Just picked up Pan's Labyrinth from Fry's. First time I bought a BD that wasn't on sale either. It was $27.99, which isn't all that bad, and I was really itching to watch it. Didn't feel like waiting for a sale.[/quote]

Amazon didn't have a better deal?

27.99...harsh.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Well, Nokia's still supporting the N-Gage, too.[/quote]

you dont get tired of those ngage rib shots do you....

ngage ruled. great device!
 
[quote name='guyver2077']you dont get tired of those ngage rib shots do you....

ngage ruled. great device![/QUOTE]

...to lose in da club when you've had too many cuba libres, holmes. ;)
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep. And that's why I went Wii60. I don't have interest in getting into HD movies until the format war is over and disc prices are MUCH closer to DVD prices (i.e. $15-20 at launch, $5-10 within a year in normal sales).

Thus I had no reason to pay the premium for a PS3. Of course, the fact that Sony's exclusive games don't excite me much was a driving factor as well. It's less of a factor now after the price drop, but now I have no need for a 3rd console given I have no where near the time to play everything that interests me on the two that I have!

But that was Sony's call. They were more interested in making Blu Ray the winner (which it looks more and more like is going to happen) rather than focus on winning the console war again.

I don't begrudge them for it. If the PS4 launches at a reasonable price and gets better exclusives on board, it may well find a place in my home.[/QUOTE]

360 is no better. They wanted a year head start bad enough where they produced possibly the most unreliable console ever. They sacrificed reliability just to get a leg up on the competition. Sony was willing to gamble their #1 spot to make blu-ray the standard. Microsoft needed that year head start and were desperate to get it out in 2005. They both did what they did for money.
 
So I went to return an HD-DVD movie tonight at bb... I tell the CSR that it's worthless now that Blue Ray has won the war and he goes on to say HD-DVD will still be around even if 99.9% of the major studios back BR. Ok, so it will be the "ultimate high definition format for the porn industry and small time production studios", but other than that there is no point for me to support HD-DVD anymore.
 
[quote name='zerolens']360 is no better. They wanted a year head start bad enough where they produced possibly the most unreliable console ever. They sacrificed reliability just to get a leg up on the competition. Sony was willing to gamble their #1 spot to make blu-ray the standard. Microsoft needed that year head start and were desperate to get it out in 2005. They both did what they did for money.[/QUOTE]

I'm not fan of MS either, nor Nintendo for that matter. They're all big companies that only care about their bottom line.

360 had more games I wanted to play, and the price was better at the time (bundle deal with Pro HDM system and 5 good games for $400) so I went with that over the PS3. Wii I had from launch as I love Nintendo's first party stuff.
 
Geko, that is one of the funniest movies I have ever seen. Good find my friend.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/buzz_article.cfm?article_id=11875

It’s time to knock it off. Ever since the two rival next-generation formats launched in 2006, I have been calling for an end to the format war, but without specifically telling one side or the other to get out.

I’m doing so now. With Warner Home Video dumping HD DVD, the format has the support of just two of the six major studios. It cannot win. At best, it can be a spoiler, but I’m hoping Toshiba, Universal and Paramount will take the high road and, for the good of the entire industry, bow out. Universal and Paramount, in particular, need to jump on the Blu-ray Disc bandwagon so we can go into the new year with a unified front and a unified mission: To educate consumers about the advantages of high-definition media and convince them the time to transition from standard DVD to Blu-ray is the day they bring that HDTV into their home.

Prolonging a format war that never should have happened in the first place makes no sense at this point. Study after study shows that consumer confusion is the No. 1 reason people aren’t rushing out to buy HD media hardware or software, and the format war is the reason everyone’s so confused — why risk buying something that six months down the road could be obsolete?

Quite honestly, I never favored either Blu-ray Disc or HD DVD. I saw the advantages of both. I also believe we need a successor technology, one that takes full advantage of HDTV and presents viewers with a true high-definition picture.

I also never bought any of the arguments that sought to defuse the potential damage of the format war by presenting it as a good thing. Sure, multiple formats exist in other industries, such as games and computers, but home video isn’t like that. Much like music, we have the exact same product — the hit of the week.

The events of the past two years could be a textbook case for how not to launch a format. Blu-ray Disc was rushed to market simply because HD DVD was already there, fit and primed. That’s why we have these evolving players and technologies such as Bonus View and BD-Live. Sure, it would have been nice to have everything in Blu-ray’s final spec. But that didn’t happen.

Looking back, HD DVD never had the support it needed. One CE maker against dozens; just three of the six majors, and even that was whittled down to two out of six when Warner bailed out.

The writing’s clearly on the wall. Let’s do the right thing.
Click to expand...

How many more people in the media can go against HD-DVD?
 
[quote name='seanr1221']Any word on Grindhouse? I love both of the movies.[/QUOTE]

They're Weinstein movies. They're HD DVD exclusive for the moment, but have only released between 2 and 7 movies, I think. Don't hold your breath in either case.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']They're Weinstein movies. They're HD DVD exclusive for the moment, but have only released between 2 and 7 movies, I think. Don't hold your breath in either case.[/QUOTE]

:cry: Hopefully someday. :cry:

So why does everyone always say we won't get nearly as many HDM sales such as BOGO?

I think once Blu becomes dominant, we'll get MORE sales and cheaper prices to win over consumers.
 
Wait....so what happens to any Standard Definition TV show that has yet to be fully released? Meaning old cartoons, and so on before HD. Will they just be dumped to Blue Ray in SD format (no clean up) or will they work to release everything that was shot in SD for SD-DVD only and leave the good stuff for Blue Ray?
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']Wait....so what happens to any Standard Definition TV show that has yet to be fully released? Meaning old cartoons, and so on before HD. Will they just be dumped to Blue Ray in SD format (no clean up) or will they work to release everything that was shot in SD for SD-DVD only and leave the good stuff for Blue Ray?[/quote]

Probably. so of those old TV shows would look SOOO horrible upconverted and in 16:9 it would look terrible, and not worth it IMO. Now, newer ones might be, but you still have the problem that they are filmed in 4:3.
 
Well, for the PS3, and mabe other BR players, you can set how you want your SD DVD's to be played. I do a pan and scan with normal upscaling, so it checks automatically if it's 16:9 or not. Doesn't look that bad then.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']
I think once Blu becomes dominant, we'll get MORE sales and cheaper prices to win over consumers.[/quote]
I think Sony and the Blu Ray group have quite the opposite in mind. In that regard you most certainly are dreaming

The one good thing to come of the dueling formats is the competitive pricing and promotions early-on. I think players would have come down much slower (even slower than SD DVD players did) had their been only one format to start with.
 
I think sean's onto something - BD's not in the clear yet, and they'll have more BOGO sales once HD DVD is dead and gone. You need to provide incentives to get people to move from $6-15 DVDs to BD, y'know.

In the long run, they would certainly love to have folks pay $29.99 MSRP for BD movies. If folks balk at that, you'll see them move closer to the price of DVD in order to encourage adoption.

If they keep the price high while people stick to DVD, they're going to give up winning the HDM war - they'll show that they'd prefer being a niche enthusiast product, like laserdisc. Better to sell millions of discs at a lower profit margin than a couple hundred thousand at a higher one.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']:cry: Hopefully someday. :cry:

So why does everyone always say we won't get nearly as many HDM sales such as BOGO?

I think once Blu becomes dominant, we'll get MORE sales and cheaper prices to win over consumers.[/quote]

I think so as well, but not necessarily because of there being just one format, but because the economy and consumer confidence is so bad right now that they can't afford to do anything but lower prices and offer sales going forward.

Otherwise, I think people will just ignore Blu-ray movies as unwarranted luxury items (if they don't already). If Blu-ray is to replace DVD and not always just be a niche product, they need to make them more affordable.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Probably. so of those old TV shows would look SOOO horrible upconverted and in 16:9 it would look terrible, and not worth it IMO. Now, newer ones might be, but you still have the problem that they are filmed in 4:3.[/QUOTE]


Yea I doubt Standard Definition DVD's will be abandoned. I really would like to see some classic tv shows and cartoons to be fully released (seasons). Dumping them to Blue Ray discs might confuse the general public as they might think, "Well if it's on high definition blue ray discs, it must look fantastic!". But curious how long will SD-DVD be around before retailer's give it the boot?
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Probably. so of those old TV shows would look SOOO horrible upconverted and in 16:9 it would look terrible, and not worth it IMO. Now, newer ones might be, but you still have the problem that they are filmed in 4:3.[/QUOTE]

How else are you supposed to watch older shows ?

You can't mean just never watch them because they're not in HD . Can you ?

[quote name='ITDEFX']Yea I doubt Standard Definition DVD's will be abandoned. I really would like to see some classic tv shows and cartoons to be fully released (seasons). Dumping them to Blue Ray discs might confuse the general public as they might think, "Well if it's on high definition blue ray discs, it must look fantastic!". But curious how long will SD-DVD be around before retailer's give it the boot?[/QUOTE]

What a great way to show off BR's awesome superior capacity .

The discs have the specs for the content listed on the back of each title .
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think sean's onto something - BD's not in the clear yet, and they'll have more BOGO sales once HD DVD is dead and gone. You need to provide incentives to get people to move from $6-15 DVDs to BD, y'know.

In the long run, they would certainly love to have folks pay $29.99 MSRP for BD movies. If folks balk at that, you'll see them move closer to the price of DVD in order to encourage adoption.

If they keep the price high while people stick to DVD, they're going to give up winning the HDM war - they'll show that they'd prefer being a niche enthusiast product, like laserdisc. Better to sell millions of discs at a lower profit margin than a couple hundred thousand at a higher one.[/QUOTE]



come on now Myke laserdisc players remained very expensive, once blu most likely wins, there main goal will to be slowly lower the prices of the players to get it to a reasonable price. Once people start buying the Players the movies will start to come. The reason it didnt work with HDDVD is probably because two formats is too confusing. Even having DVD in the name was prob confusing for Joe public.

There was hardly sales when DVDs were first coming out. I mean i def dont remember bogos for a while when I got my first player in 1999. Competition was good for the movie buyers, each format needed number of discs sold and all those Blu BOGO sure helped. Since the CES I haven't seen many good deals on either format besides that Average Amazon deal. But I guess we shall wait and see
 
[quote name='Richlough']
What a great way to show off BR's awesome superior capacity .

The discs have the specs for the content listed on the back of each title .[/QUOTE]


Like I mentioned before, it would be really cool that instead of having 7 discs of standard definition shows, that if it could be brought down to 1 or 2 discs. TV Shows would benefit from this big time. Can you imagine Season 1 of TNG on 1 disc (once they produce quad layer discs) instead of 7?!?!?

Oh I wait for the day that happens...you know Paramount is going to do this. Looks like I'm putting now another 800 bucks for TNG again :(

Hopefully disc rot won't be an issue...as I am starting to notice that a number of my discs are skipping/freezing/locking up. A lot of them were purchased in 2000.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
If they keep the price high while people stick to DVD, they're going to give up winning the HDM war - they'll show that they'd prefer being a niche enthusiast product, like laserdisc. Better to sell millions of discs at a lower profit margin than a couple hundred thousand at a higher one.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. If they want to be more than a laserdisc-esque niche product, they have to get prices closer in line with DVD.

I'm no videophile by any means, but I am more a/v concious than your average consumer and I don't know if I'll ever get big into HDM if prices don't get a lot closer to DVD prices.

I'm willing to pay a bit more for an HD disc than a DVD, but not more than $5 or so. As I pay $5-15 for pretty much all my DVDs, Blu Rays need to get in the $10-20 range before I think more seriously about taking the plunge.

And obviously I mean sale prices/price drops after a few months and not day 1 prices. I hardly buy anything day 1 as it's not worth the premium when I've either already seen it in the theater or can netflix it if I want to watch it before the price drops.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']Wait....so what happens to any Standard Definition TV show that has yet to be fully released? Meaning old cartoons, and so on before HD. Will they just be dumped to Blue Ray in SD format (no clean up) or will they work to release everything that was shot in SD for SD-DVD only and leave the good stuff for Blue Ray?[/quote]They've already released SD content on BD.

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1085/28dayslater.html

That movie was shot with SD digital videocameras.

I bought it because it was cheap and was a decent horror type flick.
The video made me cringe as it was worse than many DVDs but the audio was great!
 
So I hear that "3:10 To Yuma" has a ton...well about 7 forced trailers at boot up of the disc...are there any other Blu-Rays that do this, I mean is this a standard thing with Blu-Ray?

Yes I know you can fast forward through them but you shouldn't have to.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']Yea I doubt Standard Definition DVD's will be abandoned. I really would like to see some classic tv shows and cartoons to be fully released (seasons). Dumping them to Blue Ray discs might confuse the general public as they might think, "Well if it's on high definition blue ray discs, it must look fantastic!". But curious how long will SD-DVD be around before retailer's give it the boot?[/QUOTE]

You do realize most of the Looney Tunes were shot on film right? Because of this they're higher def to begin and would benefit being put on BR and HD DVD at a higher res. I think this can easily be said for "The Flintstones" and a few others. I mean VHS only started being used for TV productions in the last 70's or early 80's, you do know that right?
Shows earlier then this were shot on film and would benefit. If I'm wrong and VHS or tape was used earlier someone correct me.
 
[quote name='Richlough']HD DVD = Nazis , are you fucking serious ![/quote] No, I'm not fucking serious, it's called a fucking JOKE.

[quote name='Richlough'] That was totally fucking stupid , Geko -1 .

fuck WARNER ![/quote]
Moving pictures on a shiny disc......moving pictures on a shiny disc.....

We lost, relax. Remember this is coming from a guy with almost 100 HD DVDs (most recent one last Thursday), who will probably buy more, who bought a $1900 laptop with an HD DVD drive and can still return it but won't, and will probably also buy another standalone HD DVD player before all is said and done (waiting for one more price drop on the A35 or better yet, XA2).

That video is damn funny, plain and simple. If it had gone the other way and it was a Blu-Ray diatribe Hitler was going on, it'd be JUST as funny. Only then, you'd agree that it was.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']Since the CES I haven't seen many good deals on either format besides that Average Amazon deal. But I guess we shall wait and see[/QUOTE]

CES ended 5 days ago. Get off it.

[quote name='LinkinPrime']So I hear that "3:10 To Yuma" has a ton...well about 7 forced trailers at boot up of the disc...are there any other Blu-Rays that do this, I mean is this a standard thing with Blu-Ray?

Yes I know you can fast forward through them but you shouldn't have to.[/QUOTE]

Depends. It's like watching any Disney movie, really, going all the way back to the VHS era - so it's not like this is a standard that hasn't been around for 15 years or longer. The few times I've encountered it, a quick press of the "top menu" button on my remote solves that problem. Which makes it a good deal better than my WWE DVDs, that don't afford that luxury.
 
The top menu gets through all that? Good to know, thanks Myke.

So you have the PS3 remote? Is it worth it, because it's 20.00 at CC this week.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']So I hear that "3:10 To Yuma" has a ton...well about 7 forced trailers at boot up of the disc...are there any other Blu-Rays that do this, I mean is this a standard thing with Blu-Ray?

Yes I know you can fast forward through them but you shouldn't have to.[/quote]The Pixar ones do. Ugh!

I tried pressing top menu once and it froze on me!

There's literally more than 6 or so trailers before Ratatouille.
 
[quote name='geko29']No, I'm not fucking serious, it's called a fucking JOKE.


Moving pictures on a shiny disc......moving pictures on a shiny disc.....

We lost, relax. Remember this is coming from a guy with almost 100 HD DVDs (most recent one last Thursday), who will probably buy more, who bought a $1900 laptop with an HD DVD drive and can still return it but won't, and will probably also buy another standalone HD DVD player before all is said and done (waiting for one more price drop on the A35 or better yet, XA2).

That video is damn funny, plain and simple. If it had gone the other way and it was a Blu-Ray diatribe Hitler was going on, it'd be JUST as funny. Only then, you'd agree that it was.[/quote]With over 100 HD DVD titles, probably best you invest in the XA2, aren't all the players essentially broken with faulty deinterlacing?
 
[quote name='seanr1221']The top menu gets through all that? Good to know, thanks Myke.

So you have the PS3 remote? Is it worth it, because it's 20.00 at CC this week.[/QUOTE]

I got it on the cheap at GS. For the $15 or so I paid, it's nice. Beats the hell outta the control. I also use it to browse the PSN store as well. There are a few button placements I don't care for, but the negatives are few, IMO. Others really dislike it, I think.
 
I like the remote also. My only complaint is that I don't think it shuts itself off unless you turn off the system with it. I'm probably wrong, but I bought it a few months ago. About 3 months later, it was dead, even though I didn't use it. I changed the batteries last week, and now it's dead again. I'm using rechargeables now.
 
Thats weird hank.

Ive had my remote for about 6 months now and use it all the time.

Never ever had the batteries die on me.
 
At first, I figured it was the crap batteries that they give you, but after I replaced them, it only lasted a week. Unless those batteries were also junk. My DVD player remote is still using the batteries it came with, and it's over 2 years old.
 
[quote name='dallow']With over 100 HD DVD titles, probably best you invest in the XA2, aren't all the players essentially broken with faulty deinterlacing?[/quote] Not sure, but my set (which won't be replaced until my next house, which is YEARS away) is 1080i, so that's not really a factor. If it were, I could always deinterlace in my receiver if push came to shove. I mostly want faster load times, HBR bitstreaming, and better upscaling without having to switch output resolution every time I put in an SD DVD so the Reon in the receiver can do it (even though the A1 is a pretty competent upscaler to begin with).

Either player will suit those purposes, though admittedly I'd prefer the XA2. But it isn't included in the recent price drop, so is still $600, whereas the A35 is now $280.

[quote name='hankmecrankme']I like the remote also. My only complaint is that I don't think it shuts itself off unless you turn off the system with it. I'm probably wrong, but I bought it a few months ago. About 3 months later, it was dead, even though I didn't use it. I changed the batteries last week, and now it's dead again. I'm using rechargeables now.[/quote]
That's VERY strange, I have the exact opposite problem. My remote goes to sleep in 2-5 minutes, so anytime I want to use it for anything, I have to push the buttons twice. First time wakes it up, it takes a second or two to reassociate, then the second push does what I asked it to. Very annoying when you want to pause a movie to go to the bathroom. Even more annoying when you come back and it's asleep again. :)
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']
There was hardly sales when DVDs were first coming out. I mean i def dont remember bogos for a while when I got my first player in 1999. Competition was good for the movie buyers, each format needed number of discs sold and all those Blu BOGO sure helped. Since the CES I haven't seen many good deals on either format besides that Average Amazon deal. But I guess we shall wait and see[/QUOTE]

Not true, there were great deals online on DVDs from 1999 on (got my first player Dec. 1998).

800.com 3 DVDs for $1, Reel.com had great deals etc. Of course all these stores went bottom up within 2-3 years because of all the deals, but DVD was priced much more competitvely by 1999. If Blu Ray wants to keep pace with that, then need to get prices down ASAP.
 
[quote name='geko29']No, I'm not fucking serious, it's called a fucking JOKE.


Moving pictures on a shiny disc......moving pictures on a shiny disc.....

We lost, relax. Remember this is coming from a guy with almost 100 HD DVDs (most recent one last Thursday), who will probably buy more, who bought a $1900 laptop with an HD DVD drive and can still return it but won't, and will probably also buy another standalone HD DVD player before all is said and done (waiting for one more price drop on the A35 or better yet, XA2).

That video is damn funny, plain and simple. If it had gone the other way and it was a Blu-Ray diatribe Hitler was going on, it'd be JUST as funny. Only then, you'd agree that it was.[/QUOTE]

It's because it was Hilter , I'm not super pissed , it's just Hitler is such an extreme evil .
I would have preffered any other dictator , I know you didn't make the video it's just overly insulting .
 
Well, the still of the video clip showed Hitler, so it was pretty clear what the metaphor was going to be. I knew I was too PC to click "play" on that clip without derailing the topic into whether or not it is an offensive analogy or not.
 
little off topic, but appletv you can now download HD videos with 5.1 sound

didn't say if it was 720p or 1080p tho

9:45am - Here's what you can do with Apple TV: rent movies directly on widescreen TV with Apple TV. Rent them in DVD quality, rent them in HD with 5.1"

"Dolby 5.1 surround. The quality is unbelievable. You can also view audio and video podcasts right on ATV, choose from 125k podcasts and see them right on your widescreen. Get photos from your computer... get them also right over the internet from Flickr and .mac."
 
Doesn't matter, guess it's neat though.

The picture on optical discs is far superior as these downloads will be bit-starved, and DD5.1 is last gen.
 
yea, but if it takes off people could be like

why do i need blu ray/hd dvd when i can just get them from appletv

most of us and av enthusiasts care about high quality audio and video, but most people just like something little better than regular dvd
 
[quote name='dallow'] DD5.1 is last gen.[/QUOTE]

But of course a lot of people (probably the majority of surround sound owners) only have 5.1 systems. Though they probably can at least do DTS 5.1.

I wouldn't mind upgrading to a 7.1 system, or a receiver that can handle true HD sound or whatever it's called, but I'm in no hurry. Hard enough to find room for 6 speakers in my living room, much less to add two rear speakers to the set up.

As for apple TV, I don't really see that taking off. A lot of people prefer owning something rather than just renting. Maybe services like that will eventually take the place of B&M rental chains and even Netflix, but I don't see them outphasing sales of movies on disc format or maybe eventually a download format where you buy rather than rent.
 
As an Apple enthusiast (or "mac geek" if you're on the PC side of the world), I can say with certainty that Apple TV was dead in the water at release. iTunes video downloads are of little consequence.

EDIT: Ooooh, I'm not a very good mac geek, eh? Steve Jobs keynote is in a bit, and the Apple store is down right now, meaning it will be updated in a few hours with all their new exciting products. 300GB Apple TV that still won't sell? I think so!

FWIW, Apple unveiled their new top-o-the-line tower late last week (only $18,000 maxed out with 32GB of RAM and 4TB HD space, and two SuperDrives!) - there is no Blu-Ray drive option, so I think it's very safe to say that for the time being (until August at least), we will not see Apple join the BD bandwagon. If they were to include one, even as an option, it would have been included with their high-end desktop model.
 
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