Format War - HD DVD vs. Blu-Ray - *Its Over...Toshiba Swings White Flag*

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[quote name='dmaul1114']They won't right away. But you will eventually have a hard time finding a replacement when all your players crap out down the road. Be that 5 years, 10 years whatever.

So to me it would suck to build up a nice HD-DVD collection and then not be able to watch it down the road.[/quote]
I have two currently, and will probably have 4 at some point (the PC combo drives are mighty tempting). Besides, it's not like they fail frequently. My first (Pioneer) DVD player from 1997 (launch day) still works, my uncle uses it every week. My second (Sony) DVD player from 1998 also still works, my father-in-law uses it. And my third (Panasonic) player from 2001 still works, though it's sitting in the closet right now. I've never had a non-portable piece of optical A/V gear fail--EVER (did have one Discman die when I dropped it 40 too many times onto concrete).

Additonally, that assumes that because the format dies, there won't be any new players capable of reading the discs. One need only look to DVD-Audio and SACD to see that this isn't the case. Both formats failed HORRIBLY, and yet there are hundreds of millions of devices out there, and millions more sold every day, that can play them back. This will be no different. HD DVD and Blu-Ray use the same wavelength laser, the same audio and video codecs, and have otherwise similar standards. Over time, it will become a miniscule (or nonexistent) marginal cost to add HD DVD playback, and combo players will be widespread, just like nearly every DVD player over $60 can play back high res audio today.
 
[quote name='munch']I'm buying them. There are some that I still want. I really want a BOGO on Harry Potter films.[/QUOTE]

Yeah all 5 of mine are sitting on the shelf still sealed from the Amazon B1G1 sale last November(?)

You must have missed that deal.


Geko its good to know that the other formats still have players being put out. I am now glad I didn't sell off my HDDVD within that first hour or two of the WB news. I had it up on ebay for about 30 minutes then decided it wasn't worth rebuying at an unknown, later date for no reason other than having one less unit on the shelf.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']I think that if the notes are a widespread thing its a really weird thing for a retailer to do...its like saying..."DON'T BUY FROM THIS SECTION".
I understand that they want to enforce Blu-Ray but to neglect in stock product from consumers hurts both the retailer and the consumer.[/QUOTE]

It is a strange sign to put up. The only reasonable explanation I can think of is that there must be some credence to the "holy shit people are returning HD DVD players en masse!" rumor. By putting this sign up, it's a CYA measure - HD DVD owners may bristle at it, but still buy videos (and, more importantly, not return them). People getting into HDM would see this as a giant neon sign that says "DO NOT BUY, DUMMY!" and if they do and try to return it later, perhaps BB will refuse and say "READ THE SIGN, DUMMY!"

[quote name='rsigley']breaking news:

company i do freelance work for is now going blu ray exclusive for their educational videos!!!!!!!!!

they release about 2 movies a year tho[/QUOTE]

NAIL IN THE COFFIN! ;)
 
[quote name='geko29']I've never had a non-portable piece of optical A/V gear fail--EVER (did have one Discman die when I dropped it 40 too many times onto concrete).[/quote]

Count your self lucky. I've had a DVD player, receiver and a couple of VCRs die over the years. Not to mention people like Snake2715 who lose everything to a power surge/storm.

[quote name='geko29']
This will be no different. HD DVD and Blu-Ray use the same wavelength laser, the same audio and video codecs, and have otherwise similar standards. Over time, it will become a miniscule (or nonexistent) marginal cost to add HD DVD playback, and combo players will be widespread, just like nearly every DVD player over $60 can play back high res audio today.[/QUOTE]

This is a good point. If this happens, then concerns should be alleviated. But given how heated this war is, do you think this likely to happen? I'd think it probably would happen, but you never know.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Year or two? Probably not. 5+ years? Definitely.



They won't right away. But you will eventually have a hard time finding a replacement when all your players crap out down the road. Be that 5 years, 10 years whatever.

So to me it would suck to build up a nice HD-DVD collection and then not be able to watch it down the road.

But then again, I guess that type of thinking is why I'll never be an early adopter. I won't buy into something until I'm sure I'll be able to use the format pretty much indefinitely.[/quote]

I ebay'ed VCR and I got over 4100 hits. I'm pretty sure it won't be as hard to find an HD DVD player later on ebay, craigslist, or amazon. Just sayin though :bouncy:
 
[quote name='cuco33']I ebay'ed VCR and I got over 4100 hits. I'm pretty sure it won't be as hard to find an HD DVD player later on ebay, craigslist, or amazon. Just sayin though :bouncy:[/QUOTE]


But that would be forgetting to compare the amount a VCR's sold to HD DVD players sold. Out of the millions and millions of VCRs sold there are 4100 on ebay. In proportion I bet that would maybe be 1 HD DVD player on ebay in the same time frame. :D
 
[quote name='cuco33']I ebay'ed VCR and I got over 4100 hits. I'm pretty sure it won't be as hard to find an HD DVD player later on ebay, craigslist, or amazon. Just sayin though :bouncy:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the secondhand/used market will definitely still go on a lot longer than we'll be able to find new ones in stores.

I never buy used hardware, so it wouldn't be an option for me. But it will be there for HD-DVD supporters.
 
Over time, it will become a miniscule (or nonexistent) marginal cost to add HD DVD playback, and combo players will be widespread, just like nearly every DVD player over $60 can play back high res audio today.
Click to expand...
I hadn't even considered this.
Hope it's rings true in the future.
 
[quote name='InuFaye']Honestly who would buy any HD-DVDs now.

I mean its only a matter of time.[/QUOTE]

WTF is "Volcano High" on BR? Oh wait it's NOT on BR because FOX owns the rights to it here.
 
[quote name='geko29']...Over time, it will become a miniscule (or nonexistent) marginal cost to add HD DVD playback, and combo players will be widespread, just like nearly every DVD player over $60 can play back high res audio today.[/quote]

Good call, even though DivX failed...there's still lots of DVD players out there that support it, I don't see why this wouldn't be the case down the line for HD DVD.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Count your self lucky. I've had a DVD player, receiver and a couple of VCRs die over the years. Not to mention people like Snake2715 who lose everything to a power surge/storm.[/quote]
Oh, I've had one receiver fail 3 times (still mostly working after the 3rd repair), and one fail 14 times (granted, it never truly worked from the day I got it) and had numerous other pieces of AV gear fail. Just never something with an optical pickup, of which I've had dozens.

Not too worried about a surge or lightning unless it actually goes through my roof and directly strikes my equipment rack. All my gear is connected to a good online UPS with an internal breaker. IT may burn, but my equipment won't.

[quote name='dmaul1114']This is a good point. If this happens, then concerns should be alleviated. But given how heated this war is, do you think this likely to happen? I'd think it probably would happen, but you never know.[/quote]
Yeah, I definitely think it will. In the short term, when Toshiba eventually starts making Blu-Ray players, do you think they'll leave out HD DVD playback? Longer term, there are a lot of companies, such as Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Panasonic, etc, that have a long history of tossing every feature they can into their products. HD DVD will just be another logo they can put on the front, like they do with DiVx, MP3, and WMA playback now.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Good call, even though DivX failed...there's still lots of DVD players out there that support it, I don't see why this wouldn't be the case down the line for HD DVD.[/quote]
Two similarly named but wholly different technologies. DIVX (Digital Video Express) died out VERY quickly, only a few thousand copies of 3 or 4 models of players were ever sold, and the servers were shut down in 1999, so even if you did have discs and players today, you still wouldn't be able to use them.

DiVx, on the other hand, is a variant of the mpeg4/h.264 codec used to compress video for computer and portable use, and many DVD players (and now the PS3) support decoding it.

Confusing, I know.
 
[quote name='geko29']Two similarly named but wholly different technologies. DIVX (Digital Video Express) died out VERY quickly, only a few thousand copies of 3 or 4 models of players were ever sold, and the servers were shut down in 1999, so even if you did have discs and players today, you still wouldn't be able to use them.

DiVx, on the other hand, is a variant of the mpeg4/h.264 codec used to compress video for computer and portable use, and many DVD players (and now the PS3) support decoding it.

Confusing, I know.[/quote]

Aw crap...my theory fails then, thanks for the info...Though its possible and hopefully probable.
 
[quote name='geko29']Yeah, I definitely think it will. In the short term, when Toshiba eventually starts making Blu-Ray players, do you think they'll leave out HD DVD playback? Longer term, there are a lot of companies, such as Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer, Panasonic, etc, that have a long history of tossing every feature they can into their products. HD DVD will just be another logo they can put on the front, like they do with DiVx, MP3, and WMA playback now.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the cost it adds to the player. The immediate reaction is "of course they would," but if it means that they'll be selling $400-600 players when BD players can be reliably had for $200-350 (just a guess on what they'd be by the time a Toshiba BD player hit shelves), then they'd be shooting themselves in the foot and preventing sales due to cost.

It also depends on that plus whether or not HD DVD titles are still being pressed/released by the time they go Blu. If so, it seems a no brainer, but if HD DVD movies are no longer being released, and adding playback is costly, then I don't think they'd do it.

I could be wrong, though, as it seems both notions are the case, but also Toshiba's image and ego, which are two reasons why they're still pushing along, despite standing no chance at succeeding. They're like Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul mixed into one.
 
WTF is up with FOX's pricing on Blu-rays?! They've always been the highest across the board. I say this because I have yet to own a Fox BD title and there are a bunch I want but not for freakin $28 min, $45 max :cry:
 
[quote name='cuco33']WTF is up with FOX's pricing on Blu-rays?! They've always been the highest across the board. I say this because I have yet to own a Fox BD title and there are a bunch I want but not for freakin $28 min, $45 max :cry:[/quote]It's crazy, that's why I jumped all in when they finally had BOGO on Fox titles a while back.
 
What's Insomniac? The development studio or the amazing show with Dave Attel that is no longer on the air?

I don't want to bring it up in the HD DVD thread, but I find it hilarious that Kane Robot thinks HD DVD was "48 hours away from nuking Blu-Ray" before the Warner deal. LOL.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']What's Insomniac? The development studio or the amazing show with Dave Attel that is no longer on the air?

I don't want to bring it up in the HD DVD thread, but I find it hilarious that Kane Robot thinks HD DVD was "48 hours away from nuking Blu-Ray" before the Warner deal. LOL.[/quote]

The Dev studio.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']They're like Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul mixed into one.[/quote]
It's more like HD-DVD is Barack Obama and Warner's the super-delegates who made the wrong choice.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']The difference, of course, being that Barack Obama wins things, while HD DVD...well, you know the rest.[/quote]
Keeps close and even, but a little behind, without tricks like constant buy 1 get 1 free sales to raise numbers, just like Obama before Super Tuesday?

Warner super-delegates made the move before Super Tuesday, and now we're left with Clinton Blu-Ray.
 
Even? That's delusion.

The more you draw out your analogy, the more it becomes unraveled. Warner moved after Christmas (a consumer "Super Tuesday," to continue your dreadful anaology), which should have been HD DVD's time to show it still had legs. It did not up to that point, and it certainly has not since.
 
[quote name='B:L']Keeps close and even, but a little behind, without tricks like constant buy 1 get 1 free sales to raise numbers, just like Obama before Super Tuesday?

Warner super-delegates made the move before Super Tuesday, and now we're left with Clinton Blu-Ray.[/quote]You are the worst at this.

Worse than the now harmless gizmo.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']From Format Wars, to Console Wars, now to Politics! What can't we talk about in this thread?[/QUOTE]

Games. dallow said so.
 
Just thought I would throw in my opinion and actions. Yea, I went HD-DVD because I couldn't afford a PS3 at the time. I have over 25 HD-DVDs including Planet Earth, Matrix Collection, Mission Impossible Trilogy, and all of the Kubrick films. Call me crazy but I am sure as hell not going to give up on HD-DVD now. I now have a PS3 but I am still buying HD-DVD. I picked up The Big Lebowski and Being John Malkovich for 11 dollars each today from B&N.com.

There is absolutely no way I would sell these discs in order "switch" to Blu-ray. Instead; I am going to pawn my 360 add-on (b/c one day my 360 will be out of warranty and subsequently RRoD) over to ebay and pick up an HD-A30. Then I will be content feeling out what is actually going to happen to the HD-DVD format. If I feel like the technology isn't going to be tacked on to future players then I am going to purchase a second player for when (and if) the first one breaks. Hopefully dual format players will become standard or, like another poster suggested, some companies will build players who caters to people like me (too stubborn to double dip on media and would rather buy a feature-rich player). My logic is that if movie studios (infidels) are going to whore themselves out, then I am gonna be as stubborn of a bastard as I possible can. I would much rather double-dip on a player than the movies that I already bought.

I can't wait for someone's smartass comments on this post. Like many others, I feel that "Format Wars" are fucking gay and so are those who back a side or say "I told you so". And whoever trolls this post, I am talking to you. I am simply a consumer who wanted to watch their favorite movies in HD. The HD-DVD add-on just happened to be the cheapest solution at the time and I knew I would eventually get a PS3 (for MGS4, not Blu-ray). So I thought the two formats would compete a little longer than this....tough luck I guess. Well my dvd collection ain't that big (80 or so with HD-DVD representing 1/4 of that) so the movie studios can kiss my ass! I'm sticking with the HD-DVDs I already own.

Side Note- I am really looking forward to acquiring all of the Pirates of Carribean movies and Die Hards to my Blu-ray Collection.
 
Good for you. Buy what you want.
I wish I could enjoy the firesales that will be coming, (more so than the sweet 50% off stuff now) but I'll stick to BD only.

I supported BD for BD-RW drives, not movies.
The movies are a bonus to me.
 
[quote name='jughead']So I thought the two formats would compete a little longer than this....tough luck I guess.[/QUOTE]

That's a reasonable response. Not ire that "consumers haven't chosen" (when they have), nor the silly panicked firesale at rock bottom prices. A moderate, basic, "well, shit, guess HD DVD is dying or dead" response.

Though I could have lived without something as classless as using the word "gay" to describe something you don't like. What else could I expect, however, from someone from Wildcat country? ;)
 
Speaking of the Pirates movie (no not the porno lol) I saw At Worlds End last night from Netflix. Man... Disney really puts most studios on both sides to shame!

PQ was excellent and had a few features that surely took time and effort to make. The Liar's Dice game, albeit a lil corny, was a nice addition but I definitely praise Disney for their constant kick ass looking releases. Just waiting for a nice big sale to get all 3. And no, I saw Ratatouille... horrible. It's a rental and looked great but not a keeper :bouncy:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That's a reasonable response. Not ire that "consumers haven't chosen" (when they have), nor the silly panicked firesale at rock bottom prices. A moderate, basic, "well, shit, guess HD DVD is dying or dead" response.

Though I could have lived without something as classless as using the word "gay" to describe something you don't like. What else could I expect, however, from someone from Wildcat country? ;)[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the lack of class. You know... My girlfriend gets upset with me when I used that adjective as well. I'm trying to fix it, but its tough! Believe it or not I'm as liberal as it gets in Kentucky but I've been saying that phrase since I was in elementary school. Bad habit. Sorry. I will try to keep it out of this forum.
 
[quote name='cuco33']Speaking of the Pirates movie (no not the porno lol) I saw At Worlds End last night from Netflix. Man... Disney really puts most studios on both sides to shame![/QUOTE]

Yea, I watched it Sunday. It really was incredible!
The part at the end where the FD and BP surround that one ship and blow it apart was one of my most rewarding HD experiences.
Too bad it will be 2-3 months before I get the first one from the 5 Free promotion.
 
Speaking of At World's End, have they fixed the playback problem for that thing yet? It's really the only thing preventing me from buying it.
 
[quote name='cuco33']Speaking of the Pirates movie (no not the porno lol) I saw At Worlds End last night from Netflix. Man... Disney really puts most studios on both sides to shame!

PQ was excellent and had a few features that surely took time and effort to make. The Liar's Dice game, albeit a lil corny, was a nice addition but I definitely praise Disney for their constant kick ass looking releases. Just waiting for a nice big sale to get all 3. And no, I saw Ratatouille... horrible. It's a rental and looked great but not a keeper :bouncy:[/QUOTE]

How is "At World's End" if you didn't like "Dead Man's Chest" so much? I felt it reached a logical closure point at the island and dragged. Past that the only really good part was the VERY end.
Jug don't apologize, just say retarded instead. ;)
Myke I plan on buying an A35 soon enough just to check out some of the discs that have DTS-MA overseas.
Wubby the news is old but good try anyway. Soz ya'll I have to be easy on Wubby, his avatar is ADORABLE. ^_^
 
/\ Are you talking about the Black Pearl issues? It was not the 3rd but the first movie that was incorrectly set up.

i feel the same on Rat. I really didn't enjoy that movie at all. Its nice to look at but I may be unloading it very soon.
 
No, with the 3rd Pirates movie on the PS3, it freezes at the menu, making you unable to play it. I heard there was a workaround, but it was limited, if at all.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']
Jug don't apologize, just say retarded instead. ;)
[/QUOTE]

Haha! My girlfriend is a therapist and she doesn't care much for the use of "retarded" either! I'm screwed regardless. What is the fun in talking when you can't use slander. My insensitivity is fueled by my lack of vocabulary, not by hate, I swear!
 
[quote name='jughead']Just thought I would throw in my opinion and actions. Yea, I went HD-DVD because I couldn't afford a PS3 at the time. I have over 25 HD-DVDs including Planet Earth, Matrix Collection, Mission Impossible Trilogy, and all of the Kubrick films. Call me crazy but I am sure as hell not going to give up on HD-DVD now. I now have a PS3 but I am still buying HD-DVD. I picked up The Big Lebowski and Being John Malkovich for 11 dollars each today from B&N.com.

There is absolutely no way I would sell these discs in order "switch" to Blu-ray. Instead; I am going to pawn my 360 add-on (b/c one day my 360 will be out of warranty and subsequently RRoD) over to ebay and pick up an HD-A30. Then I will be content feeling out what is actually going to happen to the HD-DVD format. If I feel like the technology isn't going to be tacked on to future players then I am going to purchase a second player for when (and if) the first one breaks. Hopefully dual format players will become standard or, like another poster suggested, some companies will build players who caters to people like me (too stubborn to double dip on media and would rather buy a feature-rich player). My logic is that if movie studios (infidels) are going to whore themselves out, then I am gonna be as stubborn of a bastard as I possible can. I would much rather double-dip on a player than the movies that I already bought.

I can't wait for someone's smartass comments on this post. Like many others, I feel that "Format Wars" are fucking gay and so are those who back a side or say "I told you so". And whoever trolls this post, I am talking to you. I am simply a consumer who wanted to watch their favorite movies in HD. The HD-DVD add-on just happened to be the cheapest solution at the time and I knew I would eventually get a PS3 (for MGS4, not Blu-ray). So I thought the two formats would compete a little longer than this....tough luck I guess. Well my dvd collection ain't that big (80 or so with HD-DVD representing 1/4 of that) so the movie studios can kiss my ass! I'm sticking with the HD-DVDs I already own.

Side Note- I am really looking forward to acquiring all of the Pirates of Carribean movies and Die Hards to my Blu-ray Collection.[/QUOTE]

Nothing wrong with keeping HD-DVD movies you already bought and not double-dipping. Obviously a studio would love for you to double dip one of their movies but I'm sure Warner is more than happy you bought a copy of their movie to begin with even if it is HD-DVD. Some money is better than no money.

I don't know if the rumors of Fox possibly switching or not was true, but it made logical sense that Warner would only go HD-DVD exclusive if Fox or Disney switched with them. Without them Warner would have set up a worst possible scenario, 3 big studios on one side, 3 big ones on the other. Any consumer that has enough knowledge to know what studios support which format would have saw how screwed up the whole thing was.

Universal was the only studio keeping HD-DVD together. Blu-ray had everything on day one except Universal. I personally don't understand someone buying into HD-DVD and expecting them to pull it off when only one studio held it together. If Warner really wanted HD-DVD to pull it off (and they did seem in favor of HD-DVD) then they should of been exclusive day 1. Them being neutral told me they had no problem blu-ray being the format of choice in the long run. With Sony, Fox, and Disney outright favoring blu-ray the choice was clear.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']How is "At World's End" if you didn't like "Dead Man's Chest" so much? I felt it reached a logical closure point at the island and dragged. Past that the only really good part was the VERY end.
[/quote]

I only saw the 1st pirates (in SD btw) since this one came in by accident. I sorta upped it on my Netflix queue but I agree, it was semi entertaining up until the last 1/4 of the film that was pretty good.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']No, with the 3rd Pirates movie on the PS3, it freezes at the menu, making you unable to play it. I heard there was a workaround, but it was limited, if at all.[/quote]

I had no problems with the 3rd Pirates on my PS3. Could be an isolated incident. The only work around I know of is Samsung's botched 1200 where they skip the menu screen entirely and go straight to the movie for those films that it had troubles playing.
 
[quote name='cuco33']I had no problems with the 3rd Pirates on my PS3. Could be an isolated incident. The only work around I know of is Samsung's botched 1200 where they skip the menu screen entirely and go straight to the movie for those films that it had troubles playing.[/quote]
same here, no trouble playing pirates 3 on my ps3. I bought it about a month ago.
 
[quote name='jughead']Haha! My girlfriend is a therapist and she doesn't care much for the use of "retarded" either! I'm screwed regardless. What is the fun in talking when you can't use slander. My insensitivity is fueled by my lack of vocabulary, not by hate, I swear![/QUOTE]

You're not insensitive, you're just not ashamed to be unPC. Be proud ok? Say "Secretary" instead of "Administrative Assistant", say "Janitor" instead of "Custodian". Use "Gynecologist" instead of whatever word I remember them using now. They're not "Undocumented Workers" they're "Illegal Immigrants". Not to be a dick but if you come over onto my property I don't exactly just see you as someone without documentation, I consider you trepassing on my property so there's strike one against you. Granted it's not the exact same as jumping the borders but using that term is so ridiculous. You're in this country illegally, you broke the law, accept it and don't try to downplay it with another term.
 
at least my american gangster already shipped

paramount released on blu before, so i don't think they'd have trouble authoring blu ray disks, but it might take universal some time before they get familiar with it
 
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