GamersGate Thread

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[quote name='seamoss']In case anyone still doesn't have it, the Sanctum Collection is $1 on GG right now (Steamworks).

Edit: Whoops, and it's gone - I guess they're keeping an eye on things now.[/QUOTE]

Map Pack 2 is still 94% off, which is all I needed anyway. It's probably a mistake that will get fixed soon. Thanks for the heads up.
 
Hmm, that Crysis Collection undercuts the previous lowest (Tony's $13 AC over the weekend). I passed on that, this is almost $2 more palatable... I'm only interested in seeing the game after all the hype it's generated over the years... the trailers don't even appeal to me >.< I need someone to run just a Crysis 1 Max for $5.
 
Has anyone actually played Of Orcs & Men yet? $16 (less another 20% for using discounted BC... $12.80?) sounds attractive enough if it's good but really all I know if the premise.
 
[quote name='sunasun']Have: Metro 2033 $1,000,000
You Don't Know Jack $350,000
:drool:

this is all in fun, hopefully no one gets butt hurt[/QUOTE]


Temping but I'm all out of Zimbabwe Dollars.
 
[quote name='Syntax Error']Has anyone actually played Of Orcs & Men yet? $16 (less another 20% for using discounted BC... $12.80?) sounds attractive enough if it's good but really all I know if the premise.[/QUOTE]

It has crappy Act Control DRM with a limited number of activations that has been scaring me off. It's the same even if you get it on Steam. Much of the continent of Europe seems to still have not gotten the memo that account based DRM with unlimited activations > hardware based DRM with limited activations.

When asked about it, a representative from Focus (the publisher) replied that if you don't like DRM, buy it on the consoles. :roll:

I honestly don't know what GG's policy is on if you run out of activations if they will reissue you a new key or otherwise assist like Amazon does.

In theory you could always write to Focus I guess and hope they respond. :p

It could be okay, the premise seems a little interesting but I will wait for either the DRM to get yanked or a $5 or below price if it doesn't.
 
[quote name='asheskitty']Temping but I'm all out of Zimbabwe Dollars.[/QUOTE]
Originally, I was going to ask for sandwich bags full of finger nail clippings :bouncy:
PS
Welcome back Motoki!!!!!
 
Steam isn't always DRM. Some games on steam you can launch without steam. It's sad to see poorly informed anti-DRM people who don't realize that. I was dealing with one of those in the steam thread the other day.

If it only has steam-account based DRM that's as good as it gets these days for DRM'd titles.
 
[quote name='asheskitty']Steam isn't always DRM. Some games on steam you can launch without steam. It's sad to see poorly informed anti-DRM people who don't realize that. I was dealing with one of those in the steam thread the other day.

If it only has steam-account based DRM that's as good as it gets these days for DRM'd titles.
[/QUOTE]

Steam isn't always DRM?

Can I sell the key already activated on my account then?

No you say? Then yes, it's DRM.
 
[quote name='Tolyngee']Steam isn't always DRM?

Can I sell the key already activated on my account then?

No you say? Then yes, it's DRM.[/QUOTE]

By that logic every drm free game on Amazon, in a Humble Bundle or anywhere else is actually DRM as you cannot sell them.
 
[quote name='asheskitty']Steam isn't always DRM. Some games on steam you can launch without steam. It's sad to see poorly informed anti-DRM people who don't realize that. I was dealing with one of those in the steam thread the other day.

If it only has steam-account based DRM that's as good as it gets these days for DRM'd titles.[/QUOTE]

There are almost 2000 actual games (discounting DLC) on Steam.

Of those, a little over 100 do not have any Steam DRM and almost all of these are either older games (some very old) or smaller indie games that are DRM-free from many sources (such as the Humble Bundle):

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1

Finally, I disagree with the statement that Steam DRM is as good as it gets: I would much rather have a simple serial-based activation (with no limits) rather than Steam limiting access to my *all* of the games in my account to one user at any one time. I have a family and we all like to play different games at any point in time - just because my kids want to play Secret of the Magic Crystal shouldn't prevent me from playing Prince of Persia at the same time simply because they're both tied to the same account. And no, multiple accounts do not cut it, even two or three quickly become unmanageable - I know, I've tried.
 
[quote name='seamoss']There are almost 2000 actual games (discounting DLC) on Steam.

Of those, a little over 100 do not have any Steam DRM and almost all of these are either older games (some very old) or smaller indie games that are DRM-free from many sources (such as the Humble Bundle):

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/list_of_drmfree_games_on_steam/page1

Finally, I disagree with the statement that Steam DRM is as good as it gets: I would much rather have a simple serial-based activation (with no limits) rather than Steam limiting access to my *all* of the games in my account to one user at any one time. I have a family and we all like to play different games at any point in time - just because my kids want to play Secret of the Magic Crystal shouldn't prevent me from playing Prince of Persia at the same time simply because they're both tied to the same account. And no, multiple accounts do not cut it, even two or three quickly become unmanageable - I know, I've tried.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you completely on your latter point. I miss the old serial/CD-key DRM. When's the last time you saw that? (hence "these days")

I think a lot of people are quibbling heavily in a trollish way over my use of "isn't always"

8054.image_5F00_thumb_5F00_35C6E986.png
 
[quote name='ButtonPusher']I think my reply was my third post here? And I'm already a troll? Oh. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

TROLL! TROLL! BURN IT ...

actually, the fact you got Asheskitty to respond with a single sentence seemed like some sort of accomplishment in my book ;-)
 
[quote name='Drabelincoln']I love your posts[/QUOTE]


^_^ I enjoy yours.

[quote name='etcrane']TROLL! TROLL! BURN IT ...

actually, the fact you got Asheskitty to respond with a single sentence seemed like some sort of accomplishment in my book ;-)[/QUOTE]


Well the fact that he interpreted my trolls remark as applying to him indicates something. Those are also his 7th and 8th posts on CAG (joined in Nov).

Sometimes less is more. ^_~

...and
1727.jpg
 
[quote name='asheskitty']
I think a lot of people are quibbling heavily in a trollish way over my use of "isn't always"
[/QUOTE]

........

I'm not 'a lot of people' and if you think my few words was 'quibbling heavily in a trollish way' then ... good grief. Still, no need to derail this thread any further.

Back to On-topic: I completely agree with seamoss and how Steam affects family play. Steam is a single-person app. I can imagine Steam would release a "Steam box" which allowed family to play all games - like content bought on one PSN account can be played by anyone using that machine - and having that as a selling point.
 
[quote name='seamoss']Finally, I disagree with the statement that Steam DRM is as good as it gets: I would much rather have a simple serial-based activation (with no limits) rather than Steam limiting access to my *all* of the games in my account to one user at any one time. I have a family and we all like to play different games at any point in time - just because my kids want to play Secret of the Magic Crystal shouldn't prevent me from playing Prince of Persia at the same time simply because they're both tied to the same account. And no, multiple accounts do not cut it, even two or three quickly become unmanageable - I know, I've tried.[/QUOTE]

Digital games, including GOG DRM-free games, are single user, not single computer. So technically, you do need one copy per person playing, so there's nothing wrong with multiple accounts, one per kid.

If they change the laws to allow digital licenses to be resold, like they are doing in Europe, then you have an argument.
 
[quote name='ButtonPusher']........

I'm not 'a lot of people' and if you think my few words was 'quibbling heavily in a trollish way' then ... good grief. Still, no need to derail this thread any further.

Back to On-topic: I completely agree with seamoss and how Steam affects family play. Steam is a single-person app. I can imagine Steam would release a "Steam box" which allowed family to play all games - like content bought on one PSN account can be played by anyone using that machine - and having that as a selling point.[/QUOTE]

I had assumed that Ashes was referring to the asinine "can I sell my steam game back?" argument in the post after yours.

(Asinine because, as was noted, you can't really sell any digital game, whether it be linked to an account or DRM free, and I would even argue that to sell a used Serial based PC game is more or less impossible, unless you're buying it from a friend that you know is extremely trustworthy.)
 
[quote name='Motoki']It has crappy Act Control DRM with a limited number of activations that has been scaring me off. It's the same even if you get it on Steam. Much of the continent of Europe seems to still have not gotten the memo that account based DRM with unlimited activations > hardware based DRM with limited activations on a game.

When asked about it, a representative from Focus (the publisher) replied that if you don't like DRM, buy it on the consoles. :roll:

I honestly don't know what GG's policy is on if you run out of activations if they will reissue you a new key or otherwise assist like Amazon does.

In theory you could always write to Focus I guess and hope they respond. :p

It could be okay, the premise seems a little interesting but I will wait for either the DRM to get yanked or a $5 or below price if it doesn't.[/QUOTE]

Gamersgate can try to get activations reset, if you run out of activations.
You have to contact their support:
https://twitter.com/GamersGate/status/241449303569219584

Derick Sanzi ‏@MysterD
@GamersGate What's w/ Precursors having with StarForce just 2 activations allowed? Are there revokes? What's the DRM terms for this game?Thx

GamersGate ‏@GamersGate
@MysterD If you ever run out of acitivations, just drop support an email and they will help you reset it! :) /Angie
Click to expand...
 
I highly doubt that the Steam Box will allow multiple people to access a single account at one time. Much like when Netflix boots you off for streaming too many devices, Steam will boot you off the Steambox if the same account is logged in elsewhere. Valve is pretty strict on their single license, single user (same user), policy; it's also clearly stated in the TOS. In the end, you purchased a license to play a game only for you and that's it. Even giving your account to somebody after you died is breaking the TOS.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Digital games, including GOG DRM-free games, are single user, not single computer. So technically, you do need one copy per person playing, so there's nothing wrong with multiple accounts, one per kid.

If they change the laws to allow digital licenses to be resold, like they are doing in Europe, then you have an argument.[/QUOTE]

I'm not asking to resell anything (although I wish I could). What I'm saying is the following:

- If I buy two games from GOG, I can be playing one game on one computer while my kids play the other game on another computer *at the same time*.

- If I buy those same two games with my Steam account, the above scenario is not possible for the vast majority of games in the Steam store.

And if you've never tried having multiple Steam accounts, you don't know what a pain in the butt it is. How do you decide which game goes into which account? Kids grow up pretty fast and want to play different or more "serious" games. I can't move games between my Steam accounts. And on and on and on...

Oh, and in case you are saying that I should have to buy a game twice just because two different people in my family want to play it, then I don't know what to say...
 
I interpreted Seamoss' statement as being:
He can't play Civ 5 online, while his spouse plays COD online, and their child plays Borderlands 2 if all the games are linked to a single steam account. This would be possible if the games were retail and non-steam (but note in this example Civ5 & BL2 are steamworks). By any reasonable measure this would be permitted.
 
[quote name='ButtonPusher']........

I'm not 'a lot of people' and if you think my few words was 'quibbling heavily in a trollish way' then ... good grief. Still, no need to derail this thread any further.

Back to On-topic: I completely agree with seamoss and how Steam affects family play. Steam is a single-person app. I can imagine Steam would release a "Steam box" which allowed family to play all games - like content bought on one PSN account can be played by anyone using that machine - and having that as a selling point.[/QUOTE]
but, you gotta admit, your name is trollish. :bouncy:
 
[quote name='seamoss']
Oh, and in case you are saying that I should have to buy a game twice just because two different people in my family want to play it, then I don't know what to say...[/QUOTE]


But that's exactly what Valve is going to say. You purchased a single, nontransferable license to only be played by you and you only. According to the TOS and their agreement with publishers, you have to purchase another copy if you want somebody else to play the game. I highly doubt this will change and somehow retroactively work with preexisting accounts.
 
[quote name='anarchyoblivion'] Even giving your account to somebody after you died is breaking the TOS.[/QUOTE]

This applies to iTunes and probably other services but what will actually happen? Will they assume that 60 years after you registered that you are now dead and ask for proof you are not? It's an area that hasn't really been explored/tested has it?
 
[quote name='ButtonPusher']This applies to iTunes and probably other services but what will actually happen? Will they assume that 60 years after you registered that you are now dead and ask for proof you are not? It's an area that hasn't really been explored/tested has it?[/QUOTE]

You know, I never thought about putting a Steam account or similar in a will, but you know... it can be pretty valuable. Username and Password added to will now...lol
 
[quote name='Eldredpe']I had assumed that Ashes was referring to the asinine "can I sell my steam game back?" argument in the post after yours.

(Asinine because, as was noted, you can't really sell any digital game, whether it be linked to an account or DRM free, and I would even argue that to sell a used Serial based PC game is more or less impossible, unless you're buying it from a friend that you know is extremely trustworthy.)[/QUOTE]

This is my last post on this subject because discussions like these don't usually go anywhere useful, but simply because there's currently no infrastructure for reselling digital property in no way makes it "asinine" to want to do so. Reselling your own property is a long-enshrined right and just because Steam calls them "subscriptions" doesn't make them so (Steam's TOS != The Law).

I hope that one day this will be seriously tested in a court of law and we regain some of our rights (and I'm not talking about Steam's lawyers threatening to sue some poor bastard who's trying to sell his account on ebay). Wanting to resell something you own is *not* illegal and it's definitely *not* impossible - if Steam can enforce that only one user has access to a game (in fact, all the games in their account) at any point in time, they can certainly accommodate moving access to a game from one account to another in a technical sense. They just don't want to because it would lead to huge profit losses for them.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled programming.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Digital games, including GOG DRM-free games, are single user, not single computer. So technically, you do need one copy per person playing, so there's nothing wrong with multiple accounts, one per kid.

If they change the laws to allow digital licenses to be resold, like they are doing in Europe, then you have an argument.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='anarchyoblivion']I highly doubt that the Steam Box will allow multiple people to access a single account at one time. Much like when Netflix boots you off for streaming too many devices, Steam will boot you off the Steambox if the same account is logged in elsewhere. Valve is pretty strict on their single license, single user (same user), policy; it's also clearly stated in the TOS. In the end, you purchased a license to play a game only for you and that's it. Even giving your account to somebody after you died is breaking the TOS.[/QUOTE]


To both of you, just because a clause is in the terms of service does not mean that it would stand up in court.

Regarding steambox, it is Valve's entry into the holy of hollies (stuff that hooks up to your TV)j. I imagine they would at least rig it similar to steam on mobile (e.g. Android App) where you can be logged into it while one computer is. I am not sure they'd let you play two games simultaneous, but a living room entry has a different use model and needs to be treated differently than some PC desktop.
 
[quote name='seamoss']I'm not asking to resell anything (although I wish I could). What I'm saying is the following:

*snip*

Oh, and in case you are saying that I should have to buy a game twice just because two different people in my family want to play it, then I don't know what to say...[/QUOTE]

The reselling point is that you can "sell" your copy to your kid, and buy it back, so you don't need a copy per person that plays.

For the second, you can say you're breaking TOS.
 
[quote name='CheapLikeAFox']You know, I never thought about putting a Steam account or similar in a will, but you know... it can be pretty valuable. Username and Password added to will now...lol[/QUOTE]
I'll be your heir!!! :drool:
Hmmm, probably should do this too though.
 
[quote name='sunasun']I'll be your heir!!! :drool:[/QUOTE]

You'll just end up with 1500 Indie Gala bundles and 1,000,000,000,000 Gala "points"....

;)
 
[quote name='seamoss']This is my last post on this subject because discussions like these don't usually go anywhere useful, but simply because there's currently no infrastructure for reselling digital property in no way makes it "asinine" to want to do so. Reselling your own property is a long-enshrined right and just because Steam calls them "subscriptions" doesn't make them so (Steam's TOS != The Law).

I hope that one day this will be seriously tested in a court of law and we regain some of our rights (and I'm not talking about Steam's lawyers threatening to sue some poor bastard who's trying to sell his account on ebay). Wanting to resell something you own is *not* illegal and it's definitely *not* impossible - if Steam can enforce that only one user has access to a game (in fact, all the games in their account) at any point in time, they can certainly accommodate moving access to a game from one account to another in a technical sense. They just don't want to because it would lead to huge profit losses for them.

OK, back to your regularly scheduled programming.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't arguing the wish to sell back digital content in itself was "asinine" (if we're going to use quotes for it), but that the guy who was arguing that as a specific flaw of Steam, whereas, to my knowledge, it has been more or less impossible to resell a used PC game since the implementation of CD Serials.

I also wasn't referring to your comments, but the post directly after ButtonPusher's.
 
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