Sony announced today that it will be reducing the activation count from five to two. The turning date is November 18, when Sony will hold a PlayStation Network maintenance. Any game purchased after that can be activated and played on only two systems. Any game purchased before then will continue to have the five system count (in other words, the two system limitation will not apply to purchases made before 11/18).
This should be somewhere where more people will see it. Lots of people game share here. Dammit that sucks. Figured it'd have to happen sooner or later but was hoping they'd wait until PS4.
At least this will make some of my Xbox vs. PS3 buying choices easier. The multiple profile sign-ins on Xbox have always appealed to me for local multiplayer, but it was hard to argue with 80% discounts on PSN. Guess I'd better see if there are any hot PSN exclusives I still need to get around to.
I don't understand how this is going to work starting 11/18/2011. Let's say there is one PSN account activated on 5 PS3 consoles (consoles A, B, C, D, & E) that game share everything up to 11/17 & then on 11/19 PS3 console "A" is used to buy something new from PSN. How is it sorted out whether console B, C, D, or E is allowed to use the newly purchased PSN content?
Bottom line how will it work that purchases made on/after 11/18 can only be used on 2 consoles while still allowing pre 11/18 purchases to be used on 5 consoles?
[quote name='ZCG']I don't understand how this is going to work starting 11/18/2011. Let's say there is one PSN account activated on 5 PS3 consoles (consoles A, B, C, D, & E) that game share everything up to 11/17 & then on 11/19 PS3 console "A" is used to buy something new from PSN. How is it sorted out whether console B, C, D, or E is allowed to use the newly purchased PSN content?
Bottom line how will it work that purchases made on/after 11/18 can only be used on 2 consoles while still allowing pre 11/18 purchases to be used on 5 consoles?[/QUOTE]
Good point, Idk, how that would work. Hopefully there can be some loophole that can be found.
[quote name='ZCG']I don't understand how this is going to work starting 11/18/2011. Let's say there is one PSN account activated on 5 PS3 consoles (consoles A, B, C, D, & E) that game share everything up to 11/17 & then on 11/19 PS3 console "A" is used to buy something new from PSN. How is it sorted out whether console B, C, D, or E is allowed to use the newly purchased PSN content?
Bottom line how will it work that purchases made on/after 11/18 can only be used on 2 consoles while still allowing pre 11/18 purchases to be used on 5 consoles?[/QUOTE]
You might have noticed that when you download a game the system displays an 'Activating' message. Every game that you download needs to be activated on that system. So my guess is that basically, people will still be able to have their accounts activated on 5 different systems, but only the first two that try will be able to download/play the game. They mention that there will be some new management tool. My guess is taht with that tool, you'll be able to deactivate on a per-game/per-console basis. So it might still be possible to gameshare, bur you'll need to plan ahead (i.e. user 1 and 2 get the game for one week, then user 3 and 4 the next week, etc.)
Of course this is pure guesswork, who knows how it will exactly work on the end
I'm not surprised. I'm amazed they didn't do this before. I'm guessing they made this so people would share games with their friends but most people who do this do it on an organized level to get games for 1/5th of the cost.
It's funny because I wouldn't have spent nearly as much money without game sharing. Before I found a group, I still hadn't spent my original $20 PSN card. With game sharing, I spent over $120 as a part of a group. Now, I'll go back to buying a game every six months when it's on sale or free like Rag Doll Kung Fu. Sucks for you, Sony.
[quote name='depascal22']It's funny because I wouldn't have spent nearly as much money without game sharing. Before I found a group, I still hadn't spent my original $20 PSN card. With game sharing, I spent over $120 as a part of a group. Now, I'll go back to buying a game every six months when it's on sale or free like Rag Doll Kung Fu. Sucks for you, Sony.[/QUOTE]
Assuming 1 out of the 5 from the gameshare group was going to buy whatever game anyway, you didn't really contribute anything to Sony. I'm not saying that's the case every time, but certainly in some gamesharing cases it is.
[quote name='depascal22']It's funny because I wouldn't have spent nearly as much money without game sharing. Before I found a group, I still hadn't spent my original $20 PSN card. With game sharing, I spent over $120 as a part of a group. Now, I'll go back to buying a game every six months when it's on sale or free like Rag Doll Kung Fu. Sucks for you, Sony.[/QUOTE]
Ditto for me, not counting PS+. Sony will be receiving MUCH less money from me by cutting down on the number of consoles I can have my account activated.
I've done a few gameshares in the past including for full games like ME2 (which I plan to buy the disc version of eventually), but after I got Playstation Plus I really didn't have much need to gameshare at all. I'm provided with too many games to play now and many top quality games to boot. And if there's a new game out there odds are it's going to get a Plus discount.
I imagine with promotions like that Jurassic Park offer they'll be getting a lot more Plus subscribers. I'm sure they've factored all of this into the decision. If they felt they were making enough money through people gamesharing then they obviously would have kept it.
Let's all be realistic people. It's been 5 years that this loophole has been open, 5 ing years. You should be thankful that it was open so long. And yes it's a loophole. It was never designed to allow people to sell their activated system slots to other people and everyone knows that
[quote name='ZCG']I don't understand how this is going to work starting 11/18/2011. Let's say there is one PSN account activated on 5 PS3 consoles (consoles A, B, C, D, & E) that game share everything up to 11/17 & then on 11/19 PS3 console "A" is used to buy something new from PSN. How is it sorted out whether console B, C, D, or E is allowed to use the newly purchased PSN content?
Bottom line how will it work that purchases made on/after 11/18 can only be used on 2 consoles while still allowing pre 11/18 purchases to be used on 5 consoles?[/QUOTE]
Look at BustaUppa's summation. Not sure how you are not following this unless you somehow don't think they track when items were purchased. Pretty simple - anything purchased on or after 11/18 will only allow 2 activations; purchases before that will allow 5. It has nothing to do with consoles or how many an account can sign into.
[quote name='ssjmichael']Assuming 1 out of the 5 from the gameshare group was going to buy whatever game anyway, you didn't really contribute anything to Sony. I'm not saying that's the case every time, but certainly in some gamesharing cases it is.[/QUOTE]
I paid for $120 in PSN cards. Did that money go to the tooth fairy?
[quote name='depascal22']I paid for $120 in PSN cards. Did that money go to the tooth fairy?[/QUOTE]
You said you spent $120, you didn't mention on PSN cards. Does that mean you were the one purchasing the games in the group then? It doesn't even matter who purchased the games anyway, the same argument still applies.
IF 1 out of the 5 was going to purchase the game at full price independently of a gameshare, then the remaining 4 contributors add nothing to Sony/developers through that gameshare transaction. Do you agree with that?
[quote name='jmbreci']Look at BustaUppa's summation. Not sure how you are not following this unless you somehow don't think they track when items were purchased. Pretty simple - anything purchased on or after 11/18 will only allow 2 activations; purchases before that will allow 5. It has nothing to do with consoles or how many an account can sign into.[/QUOTE]
Read my last sentence in my first post. I asked, "Bottom line how will it work that purchases made on/after 11/18 can only be used on 2 consoles while still allowing pre 11/18 purchases to be used on 5 consoles?" I'm not sure how you are not following this unless you somehow don't think it could be a problem maintaining current use of pre 11/18 games while being deactivated from post 11/18 games.
For example, currently 5 accounts on 5 different consoles (console A, B, C, D, & E) have been gamesharing & want to continue using everything downloaded up to 11/17/11. On 11/19/11 everyone buys something new from PSN but can now only share new content with one other console.
Let's say console A's account's newest 11/19 content is downloaded on both console A & console B. Once console B is done playing the new 11/19 content how is console B deactivated without losing the use of pre 11/18 content?
The only way I see this working is if Sony allows us to deactivate individual games/add-ons/DLC instead of only deactivating an entire PSN account.
[quote name='ZCG']Read my last sentence in my first post. I asked, "Bottom line how will it work that purchases made on/after 11/18 can only be used on 2 consoles while still allowing pre 11/18 purchases to be used on 5 consoles?" I'm not sure how you are not following this unless you somehow don't think it could be a problem maintaining current use of pre 11/18 games while being deactivated from post 11/18 games.
For example, currently 5 accounts on 5 different consoles (console A, B, C, D, & E) have been gamesharing & want to continue using everything downloaded up to 11/17/11. On 11/19/11 everyone buys something new from PSN but can now only share new content with one other console.
Let's say console A's account's newest 11/19 content is downloaded on both console A & console B. Once console B is done playing the new 11/19 content how is console B deactivated without losing the use of pre 11/18 content?
The only way I see this working is if Sony allows us to deactivate individual games/add-ons/DLC instead of only deactivating an entire PSN account.[/QUOTE]
Master PSN account
Gameshare PSN Account A
Gameshare PSN account B
etc..
Now gameshare PSN account A is currently a sub account for the 5 people who did the gameshare. As long as that account is on the system the games are playable on your main account.
All the content shared through that account will be playable on your master account after the 18th without any problems. After the 18th that account can only be used to share games on 2 systems total. That in no way means the games pre-18th are unplayable however. It just means the first two PS3's to sign into that account after the 18th are the only two allowed to share post-18th games after. It's not going to deactivate the 3 previously activated system for pre-18th games, just new games going forward.
The bottom line:
1.) as long as you don't delete the gameshare accounts from your system you will have access to all the pre-18th games you got from them. You don't have to ever sign into that account again to use them, they're playable on your master account.
2.) If someone purchases a game on the gameshare account, whoever signs into that account 2nd will be the cut-off for all games after the 18th. If you are one of the other 3 you will likely get some sort of warning that the maximum allotted systems have accessed that account and you can't access it unless one of the other two deactivates.
[quote name='ssjmichael']You said you spent $120, you didn't mention on PSN cards. Does that mean you were the one purchasing the games in the group then? It doesn't even matter who purchased the games anyway, the same argument still applies.
IF 1 out of the 5 was going to purchase the game at full price independently of a gameshare, then the remaining 4 contributors add nothing to Sony/developers through that gameshare transaction. Do you agree with that?[/QUOTE]
We each spent $120 on PSN over the last two years. If I hadn't been gamesharing, I would've spent around $20-$40. The other guys in my group joined because of that same reason.
So what's better for Sony? $600 from one account or ~$200 from five accounts? That's why this is going to bite Sony in the ass. Yes, everyone has to buy their own content but how many of us won't buy games at full price when they come out and won't even try games without demos. We did that as a group. I sure as hell won't be doing that as an individual.
For them to do this now seems ridiculous, they keep taking away stuff first it was the option to add a different operating system and now ability to use 'your' content on five other machines, a great feature for todays "hi-tech entertainment" family households - foremost, and cheapgamers second of course..lol
but I suspect the real cause it that they are now going to try to push, full titles, current 'HigH' priced titles that you can't TRADE-IN and be resold at Zero Profit for them. A digital copy is essentially cost free to them and pure profit. It's just one more step toward Total Digital Distribution for games.
I'm not happy with mainly because I was sold a machine that has once more been gutted of a feature I paid for, not once but twice .. first my 80GB , now the Slim I have.. .
[quote name='depascal22']We each spent $120 on PSN over the last two years. If I hadn't been gamesharing, I would've spent around $20-$40. The other guys in my group joined because of that same reason.
So what's better for Sony? $600 from one account or ~$200 from five accounts? That's why this is going to bite Sony in the ass. Yes, everyone has to buy their own content but how many of us won't buy games at full price when they come out and won't even try games without demos. We did that as a group. I sure as hell won't be doing that as an individual.[/QUOTE]
I know I would not have spent as much as I have if I wasnt in a group. At 1/5 the price its much easier to take a chance on a game instead of at full price. Outside of my group I only really purchase add on content for retail games and some movies from time to time. I understand why they are doing this and it was a good ride while it lasted.
I think they need to take the XBL approach and require demos for all PSN titles now, it will be real hard to buy a game for $15-$20 from a release video.
If enough people don't buy the content at the full prices they'll soon see
I am still shocked at how they can't see how dumb it is to pay $4-5 dollar rental for a movie when redbox has new hits for $1 a night and other services are unlimited for set price..
I haven't really been reading much directly from Sony. My understanding is that after the update all content can only be activated on two systems.
So any content purchased prior to 11/18, but activated after 11/18 would only be activated on two systems. Is that accurate?
And if I had previously downloaded and activated content, then deleted that content, when I go to download it again, does the content have to be re-activated? If so, I guess the concern would be all that deleted content could no longer be played unless I d/l it all now.
And lastly, has Sony given any reasoning why they changed the policy?
have question maybe you guys can answer if i use a the limited edition code for bf3 on a account is it going to be only able to activate back to karkand on 2 consoles then since it releases in dec?
[quote name='ZCG']Read my last sentence in my first post. I asked, "Bottom line how will it work that purchases made on/after 11/18 can only be used on 2 consoles while still allowing pre 11/18 purchases to be used on 5 consoles?" I'm not sure how you are not following this unless you somehow don't think it could be a problem maintaining current use of pre 11/18 games while being deactivated from post 11/18 games.
For example, currently 5 accounts on 5 different consoles (console A, B, C, D, & E) have been gamesharing & want to continue using everything downloaded up to 11/17/11. On 11/19/11 everyone buys something new from PSN but can now only share new content with one other console.
Let's say console A's account's newest 11/19 content is downloaded on both console A & console B. Once console B is done playing the new 11/19 content how is console B deactivated without losing the use of pre 11/18 content?
The only way I see this working is if Sony allows us to deactivate individual games/add-ons/DLC instead of only deactivating an entire PSN account.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it is what SSJMichael said however it could also be the first two systems to activate each download are the only two allowed to activate that content. Funny, but I am pretty sure they can track by each download what system they were activated on, when it was activated, and when the purchase was made. That doesn't take too much thought there to conceive that.
I do not recall reading that accounts could only be on 2 systems, but I certainly could have missed that. What I see with your console A & B solution is attempting to circumvent the system. Don't think they are going to allow that. Be happy that it went on for this long.
I thought it would be obvious that people would figure out it would be better to freeze the said account on 11/19 and use a new account starting on 11/19. Don't know...call me logical.
[quote name='depascal22']Probably because Sony middle management saw threads like this and decided that they could somehow multiply their sales by eliminating the loophole.[/QUOTE]
Has no one been paying attention to the events of the last few years (online passes, voucher codes packed in for buying new) every one of those comes from stemming the tide of used sales, and since most people were using this "loop hole" to abuse the system (I'm talking about from the Publishers perspective here, don't blow a gasket) which they believe makes them lose sales they rightfully should have had, they are pressuring Sony to FIX it now. (And probably have been pushing for a long time for them to change this policy) And with the big push of release day full games on PSN, they see they are losing big money if 5 people are splitting $60 price for their new game.
Onto how we view things now...
However, as mentioned in this thread, many people wouldn't buy many of these games at full price since many times they can't try something out they don't have the money to take the risk of $60 on a game that might suck or that they would most definitely would wait 6 mos. or more to buy when cheaper.
We're heading for a critical mass between publishers and consumers, they want all of their money NOW, and we want good value for the product we are buying.
I'd wager if all used sales died tomorrow (if GS went out of business) they it would have a MASSIVE impact on the sales of new games since a very large majority of games resell their titles to buy new games. So I wonder how publishers would react to that massive profit loss margin that would be missing from their bottom line without those sales being in place (which I would guess account for at least 30-40% of all new sales, maybe more)
A few things will happen either sales will plummet on everything that isn't a AAA title (even those will be affected) and...
1 ) People won't buy as much as the prices continue to sky rocket (are we willing to pay $100 a game in 10-15 years... there has to be a breaking point for how much they can charge versus what we're willing to pay, general consensus at this site is $20-30 for new titles, so someone's skew is way off, our cheap ass view or their tight wad asses for overcharging for (mostly) inferior product, or at least what we view is its intrinsic value)
2 ) A massive paradigm shift toward DD only sales (don't think that it won't happen, it's only a matter of time until it's a reality, you watch) it would happen sooner if Publishers / Console makers could find a quicker distribution method for their product, while the method currently is adequate, people want things now, no waiting 3 hours to D/L something and storage is ALWAYS an issue, will a TB HDD be the norm for consoles in the next ten years (all signs point to YES) However with this shift to DD, will their be a backlash of convenience vs. no price decrease. Publishers say no, you must pay want we SAY. We as customers say, we'll buy more if you charge reasonable prices and make a good product, hence no middle ground for either camp.
3 ) Ultimately it comes down to publishers considering themselves victimized by their so called customers wanting something for nothing (their view, not mine) and they want their fair share of things.
So yeah we're on a slippery slope here, how these things play out in the next 5 years should be interesting, if the publishers have their way, I predict a massive implosion of sales and profit. If we have our way, I see less AAA titles and things to scale back, but that means we have to be willing to accept a little less eye candy and WOW factor, and is Joe Regular gamer willing to accept that and not have his Halo, CoD, be bigger, better and more massive than the last time (magic 8-ball says no, because they're too shallow) that's what remains to be seen.
The future isn't looking bright for us in the hobby of collecting and playing (but then again some of us with our massive backlogs that might be a blessing) just remember though the game makers aren't looking out for your best interests, they only care about their BOTTOM LINE.
If you'd read my previous posts uncle, you'd see that I agree with you 100%. Obviously, Sony didn't think people would gameshare like we do here. They thought people would buy PS3s by the buttload and share the content in their own homes. It was kind of hard to do that at $500 a piece. Now that the PS3 is cheaper, they eliminate the one thing that makes owning several consoles a no brainer.
My point is that any middle management type can jump on here and see how many people are game sharing. It was only a matter of time before there was a clamor within the industry to shut down the loophole.
[quote name='willardhaven']Shifting to DD would put the nail in the coffin for the industry. I would say they are too smart to let this happen but...[/QUOTE]
Except as I said, its not a matter of if, just when (look at PC game distribution or even something like Onlive) the clocks been ticking for a long while now, we've just not been paying attention to it or have been ignoring the signs that this is coming.
[quote name='depascal22']If you'd read my previous posts uncle, you'd see that I agree with you 100%. Obviously, Sony didn't think people would gameshare like we do here. They thought people would buy PS3s by the buttload and share the content in their own homes. It was kind of hard to do that at $500 a piece. Now that the PS3 is cheaper, they eliminate the one thing that makes owning several consoles a no brainer.
My point is that any middle management type can jump on here and see how many people are game sharing. It was only a matter of time before there was a clamor within the industry to shut down the loophole.[/QUOTE]
I read most of the posts and I wasn't singling you out, your last post that I quoted resonated with me and I felt compelled to post (was going to avoid it, since I had way too much to say on it...heh. :lol: )
I don't think its say necessarily us (CAG's) per say (I know you were just using our community as an example) but I know they have access to account information, where they are linked, on what systems, etc. And using this information that's what led to this decision. (Look at comments by the president of Quantic Dream about Heavy Rain being on 2 million accounts versus the 1 million in sales the game had, they were extremely upset about this and the loss in revenue because of that fact)
As I mentioned in my megapost, there is a paradigm shift in what we value paying for these vs. what the companies want to charge for them and oh yes, it is coming. Same with DD only releasing of games, that's why you've seen full releases on PSN and elsewhere, they wanted to test the waters to see if it was possible, how sales would do and how user feedback to the idea was. It comes up jake for them, so they see no downside, no profit loss and gives them an attitude of damn the torpedos and full speed ahead into those uncharted waters. (sorry for all of the analogies, but they make my point for me )
But the people they ARE HURTING are those you mentioned they do own 2 or more systems, there were MANY posts on the PSN blog of people with 2-3 systems complaining about this, so this will have a backlash, not as much as removing other OS, but its not a good sign, thankfully they backed off on the PSP/Vita thing a bit (so you can own both system and share between them)
I regularly read the games/industry news over at Gamespot, and this is something that time and again in publisher articles that comes up, so until they can do away with used sales, piracy and control any and all access to their games that we play they'll never be happy. Question is after all that is said and done, will there be anyone left out there able to afford to play there games?
(the answer is yes, but not as many or with as many games as they used to buy)
[quote name='uncle5555']Except as I said, its not a matter of if, just when (look at PC game distribution or even something like Onlive) the clocks been ticking for a long while now, we've just not been paying attention to it or have been ignoring the signs that this is coming.
[/QUOTE]
They will lose a ton of sales and either go bankrupt (mid-sized developers) or press some discs (bigger companies). Digital distribution doesn't work for multimillion dollar projects.
I only gameshare with my brother so we'll still be able to with the two slots. They've essentially let you steal for years I'd send sony a thank you card instead of complaining
I really can't see DD being profitable in the long run for full versions,
I imagine the # of full price games sold will drastically go down once these changes go through, who is gonna pay $50-$60 for a game they can't sell and get anything for it,
plus parents aren't gonna want to shell out big bucks for Billy to get tired of a game and just want something new.
You guys/gals making it complicated as it should be... When you install a game purchased from PSN, the first thing you'll see is ACTIVATION. If it's already activated two times, you will not be able to play it on the 3rd, 4th or 5th active accounts. When you deactivate/reactivate an account from a PS3, the activation counter changes...
I too agree with SSJ, the new limit should be three, not two. I'm thinking about getting a third PS3, but I guess the decision is pretty clear now.
The only good thing out of this is the ability to activate/deactivate accounts on a computer.
@Serpentor, right now it gives you the ability to deactivate all systems tied to the account (limit once every 6 months). They are still working on the ability to deactivate single systems as per my conversation with a rep this morning.
ing years. You should be thankful that it was open so long. And yes it's a loophole. It was never designed to allow people to sell their activated system slots to other people and everyone knows that
) 
