Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek topic
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Well since this is about Star Trek, and this is the 40th Anniversary that pretty much went quitely unnoticed (because there is no star trek on tv anymore), might as well talk about the new star trek games that have hit......for example Star Trek: Legacy which I bought for the PC over the weekend at EB.
Somewhat of a let down, feels kinda rushed. Also seems like they took out a lot of the features prior to launch. Multiplayer is a mess as I can't seem to lock on to any game.
Graphics are so so, doesn't have that "movie quality" type feel because the damn ships are fully lit instead of having descent shadows
40 bucks.......for a meh product. If the modders get a hold of this game, there might be potiental as they did wonders with Bridge Commander mods.
Mad Doc did this game, instead of Activision since Activision got pissed at Paramount for screwing the Star Trek Franchise.
Oh well.
Somewhat of a let down, feels kinda rushed. Also seems like they took out a lot of the features prior to launch. Multiplayer is a mess as I can't seem to lock on to any game.
Graphics are so so, doesn't have that "movie quality" type feel because the damn ships are fully lit instead of having descent shadows
40 bucks.......for a meh product. If the modders get a hold of this game, there might be potiental as they did wonders with Bridge Commander mods.
Mad Doc did this game, instead of Activision since Activision got pissed at Paramount for screwing the Star Trek Franchise.
Oh well.
[quote name='ITDEFX']Well since this is about Star Trek, and this is the 40th Anniversary that pretty much went quitely unnoticed (because there is no star trek on tv anymore), might as well talk about the new star trek games that have hit......for example Star Trek: Legacy which I bought for the PC over the weekend at EB.
Somewhat of a let down, feels kinda rushed. Also seems like they took out a lot of the features prior to launch. Multiplayer is a mess as I can't seem to lock on to any game.
Graphics are so so, doesn't have that "movie quality" type feel because the damn ships are fully lit instead of having descent shadows
40 bucks.......for a meh product. If the modders get a hold of this game, there might be potiental as they did wonders with Bridge Commander mods.
Mad Doc did this game, instead of Activision since Activision got pissed at Paramount for screwing the Star Trek Franchise.
Oh well.[/quote]
I'm going to get the 360 version this week. Most everyone's main complaint about the PC version is the wonky controls, since it was apparently designed with the 360 in mind. I'm not expecting much, but as a Trek fan I believe I'll get some enjoyment out of it.
Somewhat of a let down, feels kinda rushed. Also seems like they took out a lot of the features prior to launch. Multiplayer is a mess as I can't seem to lock on to any game.
Graphics are so so, doesn't have that "movie quality" type feel because the damn ships are fully lit instead of having descent shadows
40 bucks.......for a meh product. If the modders get a hold of this game, there might be potiental as they did wonders with Bridge Commander mods.
Mad Doc did this game, instead of Activision since Activision got pissed at Paramount for screwing the Star Trek Franchise.
Oh well.[/quote]
I'm going to get the 360 version this week. Most everyone's main complaint about the PC version is the wonky controls, since it was apparently designed with the 360 in mind. I'm not expecting much, but as a Trek fan I believe I'll get some enjoyment out of it.
[quote name='2Fast']I'm going to get the 360 version this week. Most everyone's main complaint about the PC version is the wonky controls, since it was apparently designed with the 360 in mind. I'm not expecting much, but as a Trek fan I believe I'll get some enjoyment out of it.[/QUOTE]
your right it does feel like it was made for the 360, but just *ported* to the PC
Controls are wonky big time and there is NO WAY to reconfigure them so its fly by keyboard and look with mouse. When using the Galaxy Class starship, it looks like there is the possiblity that the saucer CAN seperate, but there is no KEY to do so
Oh yea, and the Intrepid class(VOYAGER) , well the naccels don't fold up when it goes to warp...... OOPS!!
your right it does feel like it was made for the 360, but just *ported* to the PC
Controls are wonky big time and there is NO WAY to reconfigure them
so its fly by keyboard and look with mouse. When using the Galaxy Class starship, it looks like there is the possiblity that the saucer CAN seperate, but there is no KEY to do so Oh yea, and the Intrepid class(VOYAGER) , well the naccels don't fold up when it goes to warp...... OOPS!!
AH HA!
I just played the game with my Logitech wireless rumblepad 2......... and seems it was designed for a gamepad........not this gamepad, but I suspect that the 360 pad for the pc would work perfectly for this game if the programmers mapped out all controls to the 360 pad because I still can't fire photons on my pad
I doubt this game is worth 50-60 bucks on the 360.
I just played the game with my Logitech wireless rumblepad 2......... and seems it was designed for a gamepad........not this gamepad, but I suspect that the 360 pad for the pc would work perfectly for this game if the programmers mapped out all controls to the 360 pad because I still can't fire photons on my pad
I doubt this game is worth 50-60 bucks on the 360.
[quote name='keithp']You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
ITDEFX has it right.[/QUOTE]
thank you
Gene did a great job with TNG, DS9 had some great action and AMAZING space battles, Voyager was ok, then went to take a dump when 7 came along. Enterprise had potental but Berman HAD to bring sex into it
Voyager is the trash series of the saga....thats why its not on my dvd shelf and I had 700+ dollars to spend on something else in 2004.
ITDEFX has it right.[/QUOTE]
thank you
Gene did a great job with TNG, DS9 had some great action and AMAZING space battles, Voyager was ok, then went to take a dump when 7 came along. Enterprise had potental but Berman HAD to bring sex into it
Voyager is the trash series of the saga....thats why its not on my dvd shelf and I had 700+ dollars to spend on something else in 2004.
[quote name='2Fast']What do you mean? There was more sex than usual, but it certainly wasn't enough to detract from the serious (IMO).[/QUOTE]
lets just say, every guy took off his shirt more then once and T'pol had sex with Trip during season 3 where you saw her ass... Star trek and sex don't mix.
lets just say, every guy took off his shirt more then once and T'pol had sex with Trip during season 3 where you saw her ass... Star trek and sex don't mix.
[quote name='ITDEFX']lets just say, every guy took off his shirt more then once and T'pol had sex with Trip during season 3 where you saw her ass... Star trek and sex don't mix.[/quote]
Wasn't TOS a lot like that though? Kirk with his shirt off, boinkin' some turquoise lady?
I know what you mean, I just don't think it really detracted from the show itself.
Wasn't TOS a lot like that though? Kirk with his shirt off, boinkin' some turquoise lady?
I know what you mean, I just don't think it really detracted from the show itself.
[quote name='2Fast']Wasn't TOS a lot like that though? Kirk with his shirt off, boinkin' some turquoise lady?
I know what you mean, I just don't think it really detracted from the show itself.[/QUOTE]
I never really watched TOS..but the remastered ones now showing in synidcation is bringing back my attention, if only the station is on would stop
en switching the time schedual for it.
Anyways...as a guy watching a sci fi show, its a big turn off to see a bunch of buffed up men take off there shirts to rub jelly on someone else in the decon chamber.
I know what you mean, I just don't think it really detracted from the show itself.[/QUOTE]
I never really watched TOS..but the remastered ones now showing in synidcation is bringing back my attention, if only the station is on would stop
en switching the time schedual for it. Anyways...as a guy watching a sci fi show, its a big turn off to see a bunch of buffed up men take off there shirts to rub jelly on someone else in the decon chamber.
David85
Banned
[quote name='ITDEFX']thank you
Gene did a great job with TNG, DS9 had some great action and AMAZING space battles, Voyager was ok, then went to take a dump when 7 came along. Enterprise had potental but Berman HAD to bring sex into it
Voyager is the trash series of the saga....thats why its not on my dvd shelf and I had 700+ dollars to spend on something else in 2004.[/QUOTE]
I know exactly what I'm talking about, you people don't seem to have a clue.
Gene Roddenberry's idea for a second movie was Spock killing JFK. Gene Roddenberry's TNG was TERRIBLE and only became good after he died. Berman wrote some of the best Star Trek episodes including Best of Both Worlds, the episode that started cliffhangers. Berman also wrote a lot of DS9 along with several other people like Moore who does the new BSG.
The person you should hate is Braga, who was dating Seven of Nine, I wonder if that is how she got the job! Gene Roddenberry would have destroyed Star Trek 15 years before Braga did. The best thing Gene Roddenberry did for his show was die.
[quote name='ITDEFX']I never really watched TOS...[/QUOTE]
And yet you know the shows so well!
Gene did a great job with TNG, DS9 had some great action and AMAZING space battles, Voyager was ok, then went to take a dump when 7 came along. Enterprise had potental but Berman HAD to bring sex into it
Voyager is the trash series of the saga....thats why its not on my dvd shelf and I had 700+ dollars to spend on something else in 2004.
[/QUOTE]I know exactly what I'm talking about, you people don't seem to have a clue.
Gene Roddenberry's idea for a second movie was Spock killing JFK. Gene Roddenberry's TNG was TERRIBLE and only became good after he died. Berman wrote some of the best Star Trek episodes including Best of Both Worlds, the episode that started cliffhangers. Berman also wrote a lot of DS9 along with several other people like Moore who does the new BSG.
The person you should hate is Braga, who was dating Seven of Nine, I wonder if that is how she got the job! Gene Roddenberry would have destroyed Star Trek 15 years before Braga did. The best thing Gene Roddenberry did for his show was die.
[quote name='ITDEFX']I never really watched TOS...[/QUOTE]
And yet you know the shows so well!
[quote name='David85']I know exactly what I'm talking about, you people don't seem to have a clue.
Gene Roddenberry's idea for a second movie was Spock killing JFK. Gene Roddenberry's TNG was TERRIBLE and only became good after he died. Berman wrote some of the best Star Trek episodes including Best of Both Worlds, the episode that started cliffhangers. Berman also wrote a lot of DS9 along with several other people like Moore who does the new BSG.
The person you should hate is Braga, who was dating Seven of Nine, I wonder if that is how she got the job! Gene Roddenberry would have destroyed Star Trek 15 years before Braga did. The best thing Gene Roddenberry did for his show was die.
And yet you know the shows so well![/QUOTE]
Just cause I haven't watched all of TOS doesn't mean you have to trash me. The quality of TNG dipped a bit AFTER Gene died. DS9 had a slow start but after they brought in the Defiant and Worf that show really kicked ass. The special effects were amazing. Voyager should have stayed lost in the Delta Quadrant since they made the most powerful enemy in the star trek universe into easily beaten foes.
Gene Roddenberry's idea for a second movie was Spock killing JFK. Gene Roddenberry's TNG was TERRIBLE and only became good after he died. Berman wrote some of the best Star Trek episodes including Best of Both Worlds, the episode that started cliffhangers. Berman also wrote a lot of DS9 along with several other people like Moore who does the new BSG.
The person you should hate is Braga, who was dating Seven of Nine, I wonder if that is how she got the job! Gene Roddenberry would have destroyed Star Trek 15 years before Braga did. The best thing Gene Roddenberry did for his show was die.
And yet you know the shows so well!
[/QUOTE]Just cause I haven't watched all of TOS doesn't mean you have to trash me. The quality of TNG dipped a bit AFTER Gene died. DS9 had a slow start but after they brought in the Defiant and Worf that show really kicked ass. The special effects were amazing. Voyager should have stayed lost in the Delta Quadrant since they made the most powerful enemy in the star trek universe into easily beaten foes.
[quote name='ITDEFX']Best of Both Worlds part 1 and 2 was one of TNG most notible best episodes, with the inner light coming second.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but BOBW was Season 3 and 4.
Anyway, it was definitely BERMAN that killed Trek.
And Roddenberry died during the airing of Season 4 I believe. After it started getting good.
So N'YAH David85!
Yeah but BOBW was Season 3 and 4.
Anyway, it was definitely BERMAN that killed Trek.
And Roddenberry died during the airing of Season 4 I believe. After it started getting good.
So N'YAH David85!
I didn't hate Nellix. He wasn't a great character by any means, but he did provide some comic relief. However, the Doctor was much funnier then Nellix ever was.
It's really great how Trek had three funny Doctors in a row- Basher, the EMH, and Phlox.
Also I'm getting kind of angry because Buy.com has Star Trek Legacy in stock, but when I add it to my shopping cart it wont let me use Google Checkout.
It's really great how Trek had three funny Doctors in a row- Basher, the EMH, and Phlox.
Also I'm getting kind of angry because Buy.com has Star Trek Legacy in stock, but when I add it to my shopping cart it wont let me use Google Checkout.
[quote name='Kaijufan']
Also I'm getting kind of angry because Buy.com has Star Trek Legacy in stock, but when I add it to my shopping cart it wont let me use Google Checkout.[/QUOTE]
dude, just wait a while for the price drop on that game and more bug fixes and the modding community to grow...... its really starting to grow as they have added some cool stuff, but it takes awhile.
Also I'm getting kind of angry because Buy.com has Star Trek Legacy in stock, but when I add it to my shopping cart it wont let me use Google Checkout.[/QUOTE]
dude, just wait a while for the price drop on that game and more bug fixes and the modding community to grow...... its really starting to grow as they have added some cool stuff, but it takes awhile.
[quote name='ITDEFX']dude, just wait a while for the price drop on that game and more bug fixes and the modding community to grow...... its really starting to grow as they have added some cool stuff, but it takes awhile.[/quote]
I think he's talking about the 360 version.
I think he's talking about the 360 version.
ive never been a fan of star trek games but if they ever made a kind of rpg or rts/rpg out of the deep space 9 universe id be all over it. the chance to either play as main characters or start as a basic ensin and work under commander turned captain sisko would be awesome. especially if you get to experience the whole series plots and storylines especially the invasion of the founders and the jemhadar.
man itd be sweet to fight them off on the promenade of deepsace 9 as well as just exploring the space station overall. to me that was the best star trek series on so many levels. it had a slow start yeah but when it picked up and they added more interesting characters the show blew up.
man itd be sweet to fight them off on the promenade of deepsace 9 as well as just exploring the space station overall. to me that was the best star trek series on so many levels. it had a slow start yeah but when it picked up and they added more interesting characters the show blew up.
I'm sure it's been covered, but today starts the weeklong Voyager marathon on Spike. They are showing them in order this week (I think) but skipping episodes as they go to show 'the best episodes'.
Next week is other programming for the holidays I guess and then I'm assuming Spike will get back to their normal rotations in the new year. Assume they'll be showing one DS9, one Voyager, and 1-3 TNG episodes per day.
DS9 ended on a bit of a cliffhanger for Rom last week so now I have to wait 2 weeks to see what happens to him. Doh!
Next week is other programming for the holidays I guess and then I'm assuming Spike will get back to their normal rotations in the new year. Assume they'll be showing one DS9, one Voyager, and 1-3 TNG episodes per day.
DS9 ended on a bit of a cliffhanger for Rom last week so now I have to wait 2 weeks to see what happens to him. Doh!
[quote name='wubb']I'm sure it's been covered, but today starts the weeklong Voyager marathon on Spike. They are showing them in order this week (I think) but skipping episodes as they go to show 'the best episodes'.[/quote]
It's taking them a week to show the best episodes? Should only take them half a day.
It's taking them a week to show the best episodes? Should only take them half a day.
[quote name='lokizz']ive never been a fan of star trek games but if they ever made a kind of rpg or rts/rpg out of the deep space 9 universe id be all over it. the chance to either play as main characters or start as a basic ensin and work under commander turned captain sisko would be awesome. especially if you get to experience the whole series plots and storylines especially the invasion of the founders and the jemhadar.
man itd be sweet to fight them off on the promenade of deepsace 9 as well as just exploring the space station overall. to me that was the best star trek series on so many levels. it had a slow start yeah but when it picked up and they added more interesting characters the show blew up.[/QUOTE]
Check out the Star Trek MMORPG coming out if you haven't already. I sure hope it's good.
man itd be sweet to fight them off on the promenade of deepsace 9 as well as just exploring the space station overall. to me that was the best star trek series on so many levels. it had a slow start yeah but when it picked up and they added more interesting characters the show blew up.[/QUOTE]
Check out the Star Trek MMORPG coming out if you haven't already. I sure hope it's good.
[quote name='2Fast']I think he's talking about the 360 version.[/quote]
Yeah I want to pick up the 360 version for $40. I really hate having to use buy.com for the $20 off $50 Google Checkout because they are like a half assed version of Amazon.
I do plan on picking up the PC version when it gets cheap if a ton of mods come out like they did for Bridge Commander. Of course I'll make sure to pick it up before it becomes super rare. I remember back when I could find Bridge Commander in stores I would always be like "I'll pick it up next time I come". Then one day I never saw it again and I still don't have a copy.
Yeah I want to pick up the 360 version for $40. I really hate having to use buy.com for the $20 off $50 Google Checkout because they are like a half assed version of Amazon.
I do plan on picking up the PC version when it gets cheap if a ton of mods come out like they did for Bridge Commander. Of course I'll make sure to pick it up before it becomes super rare. I remember back when I could find Bridge Commander in stores I would always be like "I'll pick it up next time I come". Then one day I never saw it again and I still don't have a copy.
[quote name='keithp']Check out the Star Trek MMORPG coming out if you haven't already. I sure hope it's good.[/QUOTE]
I am really going to be surprise how they are going to pull this off succesfully. Star Wars Galaxies was one thing since you could take one of two sides (or nuetral for that matter) and flying around in your own personal fighter was cool, but star trek is a bigger universe. Not everyone in starfleet will have there own personal shuttle with a transporter. We are going to have too many *kiddies* who want to play as the borg or klingons or want to start off with a defiant class ship or a galaxy class ship. They already said you will need a crew to man your ship, but its gonna blow if none of your crew is on and the borg come for you :O
I am really going to be surprise how they are going to pull this off succesfully. Star Wars Galaxies was one thing since you could take one of two sides (or nuetral for that matter) and flying around in your own personal fighter was cool, but star trek is a bigger universe. Not everyone in starfleet will have there own personal shuttle with a transporter. We are going to have too many *kiddies* who want to play as the borg or klingons or want to start off with a defiant class ship or a galaxy class ship. They already said you will need a crew to man your ship, but its gonna blow if none of your crew is on and the borg come for you :O
oh yeah id also like to see games that let you get involved with or focus on the shadow govts in the star trek universe. the 2 they mentioned and featured in deep space 9 ( the starfleet one and the cardassian one) were very interesting and in the course of the game itd be cool to be approached by one and maybe join up with them depending on what race of character you are. then you could pull off jobs for them like stealing info or setting up assasinations or hiding truths.
One of my ideas for a Star Trek space battle sim, that I think would completely rule and recreate the Star Trek experience: A game that implements voice commands as one of the ways to control your ship (as well as using audio to give you most of your cues).
"Open a channel!"
"Sir, starboard shields are at 40 percent." - cuing you to go hard to port.
"Full impulse!"
"Divert power to weapons!"
"Target their engines!"
This would take care of some of the ridiculous HUD menus and button combinations, allowing you to focus on weapons and manuevering (which should be sped up, the ships in Legacy are too damn slow).
As for a Trek RPG, look no further than Star Wars KOTOR as an example of how this should be handled. I would use the TNG crew as the main characters and keep the combat system similar to KOTOR.
I would give more emphasis to being in space though, where you'd actually have to pilot the ship and face whatever Star Trek episodic encounters are thrown your way. The main emphasis would be on person to person combat, but ship battles wouldn't fall by the wayside (maybe set them up like a turn-based strategy game).
Hell, you could even just playthrough some of the best episodes of TNG. Rinse and repeat with TOS and DS9, do it for Enterprise and Voyager if the games turn out well.
"Open a channel!"
"Sir, starboard shields are at 40 percent." - cuing you to go hard to port.
"Full impulse!"
"Divert power to weapons!"
"Target their engines!"
This would take care of some of the ridiculous HUD menus and button combinations, allowing you to focus on weapons and manuevering (which should be sped up, the ships in Legacy are too damn slow).
As for a Trek RPG, look no further than Star Wars KOTOR as an example of how this should be handled. I would use the TNG crew as the main characters and keep the combat system similar to KOTOR.
I would give more emphasis to being in space though, where you'd actually have to pilot the ship and face whatever Star Trek episodic encounters are thrown your way. The main emphasis would be on person to person combat, but ship battles wouldn't fall by the wayside (maybe set them up like a turn-based strategy game).
Hell, you could even just playthrough some of the best episodes of TNG. Rinse and repeat with TOS and DS9, do it for Enterprise and Voyager if the games turn out well.
Spike basically speed through Season 1 today, I caught about 5 episodes today... and man I forgot how bad season 1 of Voyager was (Season 1 compared to later seasons... and the whole show compared to the other shows).
Either way, I hadn't seen the show since it was in syndacation (probably when season 7 was airing) on UPN at night.
Either way, I hadn't seen the show since it was in syndacation (probably when season 7 was airing) on UPN at night.
[quote name='2Fast']One of my ideas for a Star Trek space battle sim, that I think would completely rule and recreate the Star Trek experience: A game that implements voice commands as one of the ways to control your ship (as well as using audio to give you most of your cues).
"Open a channel!"
"Sir, starboard shields are at 40 percent." - cuing you to go hard to port.
"Full impulse!"
"Divert power to weapons!"
"Target their engines!"
This would take care of some of the ridiculous HUD menus and button combinations, allowing you to focus on weapons and manuevering (which should be sped up, the ships in Legacy are too damn slow).
As for a Trek RPG, look no further than Star Wars KOTOR as an example of how this should be handled. I would use the TNG crew as the main characters and keep the combat system similar to KOTOR.
I would give more emphasis to being in space though, where you'd actually have to pilot the ship and face whatever Star Trek episodic encounters are thrown your way. The main emphasis would be on person to person combat, but ship battles wouldn't fall by the wayside (maybe set them up like a turn-based strategy game).
Hell, you could even just playthrough some of the best episodes of TNG. Rinse and repeat with TOS and DS9, do it for Enterprise and Voyager if the games turn out well.[/QUOTE]
I sort of like this idea, I dunno if the KOTOR system would work as well. There isn't as much hand to hand combat (or any land based combat) in Trek. Either way, I'd like to see you be able to build/select a crew, and level up the ones you use on away missions (have them be promoted etc) and if they used non-famous characters, you could have them get killed off on dangerous missions, etc.
Space Combat is a must for the RPG though.
Another semi-idea I had is being able to control one console. Think about literally having the CONN up on the screen and you having to hit the buttons while orders are relayed to you (Multiplayer anyone?) Could be a ton of fun online/XBox Live.
"Open a channel!"
"Sir, starboard shields are at 40 percent." - cuing you to go hard to port.
"Full impulse!"
"Divert power to weapons!"
"Target their engines!"
This would take care of some of the ridiculous HUD menus and button combinations, allowing you to focus on weapons and manuevering (which should be sped up, the ships in Legacy are too damn slow).
As for a Trek RPG, look no further than Star Wars KOTOR as an example of how this should be handled. I would use the TNG crew as the main characters and keep the combat system similar to KOTOR.
I would give more emphasis to being in space though, where you'd actually have to pilot the ship and face whatever Star Trek episodic encounters are thrown your way. The main emphasis would be on person to person combat, but ship battles wouldn't fall by the wayside (maybe set them up like a turn-based strategy game).
Hell, you could even just playthrough some of the best episodes of TNG. Rinse and repeat with TOS and DS9, do it for Enterprise and Voyager if the games turn out well.[/QUOTE]
I sort of like this idea, I dunno if the KOTOR system would work as well. There isn't as much hand to hand combat (or any land based combat) in Trek. Either way, I'd like to see you be able to build/select a crew, and level up the ones you use on away missions (have them be promoted etc) and if they used non-famous characters, you could have them get killed off on dangerous missions, etc.
Space Combat is a must for the RPG though.
Another semi-idea I had is being able to control one console. Think about literally having the CONN up on the screen and you having to hit the buttons while orders are relayed to you (Multiplayer anyone?) Could be a ton of fun online/XBox Live.
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[quote name='David85']By the time he died, which was the third season (1991) he had less control. Berman did a fine job with help for more than 10 years. You really should blame Braga and Paramont for destroying it. He dumbed it down and added pointless sex while the company didn't give a damn.[/quote]
Roddenberry was responsible for a lot of good things and a lot of bad things. He had a pretty good sense of where to take Star Trek, but some of his ideas just didn't translate well. You can blame Roddenberry for Wesley Crusher and for the no-conflict-among-cast-members rule, which is something that curses Star Trek to this day.
Berman and Braga are more or less a team. They're responsible for some good things, but they're largely responsible for where Star Trek is today. Which is not good.
They continued Roddenberry's "no-conflict" rule, which is one reason why Voyager was doomed from the start. They are also responsible for some of the most destructive story techniques ever seen on television, including but not limited to such Star Trek cliches as The Reset Button (where everything that occurred is magically wiped away by the next episode), DNA-Magic,
Technobabble Takes Over The Ship, What Shuttle Locks?, and Anomaly Follies (where spatial/temporal anomalies get more development than cast members).
The Best of Both Worlds is case in point. They deserve credit for taking TNG to that point and for creating a really interesting cliffhanger. But The Best of Both Worlds II wasn't that good. It resolved the plot, but dropped all the really interesting stuff. Shelby, Riker's antagonist, disappears and his career is all but forgotten. Picard is magically saved by a means that was previously established to kill Borg. The Enterprise magically survives the big badass alien (Trek Cliche #42: The Emasculated Enemy -- create a big bad alien, and slowly chip away at them whenever you need to save the plot). And, at the end of it all, everything is back to where it was.
I don't want to bag on it too much, because it contained a lot of firsts for modern Trek. A storyline that built up over a season. The idea that major events should last beyond one episode. Things like Picard's Borgification actually being remembered, and used in the future.
But these things are only remarkable because Trek simply ignored them before, and treated them half-heartedly afterwards. Voyager was particularly egregious, not even bothering to keep track of how far away from Earth they were. The Best of Both Worlds changed things, but it also set a pretty low standard and Trek has yet to evolve from it.
Oh yeah, I forgot a destructive story device: write a cliffhanger, but only write one half at a time, so when the second half comes around, it is a letdown. They did this over, and over, and over. Never learning from their mistakes. Kind of like their series.
Note that DS9, which looks better with age, is the exception to most of these problems and the show that had their influence the least.
Sex isn't the problem with Star Trek -- the adolescent and smarmy approach to sex on Star Trek is the problem. It's like the episodes that have sexual content were written by the unexperienced teenage nerds that Paramount thinks is their prime audience. And include buckets of hot oil.
But what do you expect from a franchise that just doesn't seem to get humans. Star Trek largely survives on the strength of its captains and its aliens-who-want-to-be-human figures. When it works (Picard/Data or Sisko/Odo) it works great. When there's a weak link, it kind of falls apart, and all you have is a bunch of bland humans.
Roddenberry was responsible for a lot of good things and a lot of bad things. He had a pretty good sense of where to take Star Trek, but some of his ideas just didn't translate well. You can blame Roddenberry for Wesley Crusher and for the no-conflict-among-cast-members rule, which is something that curses Star Trek to this day.
Berman and Braga are more or less a team. They're responsible for some good things, but they're largely responsible for where Star Trek is today. Which is not good.
They continued Roddenberry's "no-conflict" rule, which is one reason why Voyager was doomed from the start. They are also responsible for some of the most destructive story techniques ever seen on television, including but not limited to such Star Trek cliches as The Reset Button (where everything that occurred is magically wiped away by the next episode), DNA-Magic,
Technobabble Takes Over The Ship, What Shuttle Locks?, and Anomaly Follies (where spatial/temporal anomalies get more development than cast members).
The Best of Both Worlds is case in point. They deserve credit for taking TNG to that point and for creating a really interesting cliffhanger. But The Best of Both Worlds II wasn't that good. It resolved the plot, but dropped all the really interesting stuff. Shelby, Riker's antagonist, disappears and his career is all but forgotten. Picard is magically saved by a means that was previously established to kill Borg. The Enterprise magically survives the big badass alien (Trek Cliche #42: The Emasculated Enemy -- create a big bad alien, and slowly chip away at them whenever you need to save the plot). And, at the end of it all, everything is back to where it was.
I don't want to bag on it too much, because it contained a lot of firsts for modern Trek. A storyline that built up over a season. The idea that major events should last beyond one episode. Things like Picard's Borgification actually being remembered, and used in the future.
But these things are only remarkable because Trek simply ignored them before, and treated them half-heartedly afterwards. Voyager was particularly egregious, not even bothering to keep track of how far away from Earth they were. The Best of Both Worlds changed things, but it also set a pretty low standard and Trek has yet to evolve from it.
Oh yeah, I forgot a destructive story device: write a cliffhanger, but only write one half at a time, so when the second half comes around, it is a letdown. They did this over, and over, and over. Never learning from their mistakes. Kind of like their series.
Note that DS9, which looks better with age, is the exception to most of these problems and the show that had their influence the least.
Sex isn't the problem with Star Trek -- the adolescent and smarmy approach to sex on Star Trek is the problem. It's like the episodes that have sexual content were written by the unexperienced teenage nerds that Paramount thinks is their prime audience. And include buckets of hot oil.
But what do you expect from a franchise that just doesn't seem to get humans. Star Trek largely survives on the strength of its captains and its aliens-who-want-to-be-human figures. When it works (Picard/Data or Sisko/Odo) it works great. When there's a weak link, it kind of falls apart, and all you have is a bunch of bland humans.
[quote name='lordwow']I sort of like this idea, I dunno if the KOTOR system would work as well. There isn't as much hand to hand combat (or any land based combat) in Trek.[/quote]
I figured this is why they'd use the TNG crew. Worf could use all his knives and shit, Data could go hand to hand, Picard could dual-wield like in Nemesis, Troi uses mind magic, Riker would be the same as Picard probably, Geordi could scan for weaknesses and repair, and Beverly could be a medic. Sounds goofy, but it could work I think...
I figured this is why they'd use the TNG crew. Worf could use all his knives and shit, Data could go hand to hand, Picard could dual-wield like in Nemesis, Troi uses mind magic, Riker would be the same as Picard probably, Geordi could scan for weaknesses and repair, and Beverly could be a medic. Sounds goofy, but it could work I think...
did anyone else notice how much high quality tang worf got through all of the series? he got the hottest chicks in every trek show he was in. and hand to hand combat wasnt huge in any series but deep space 9. man those jemhadar battles were the coolest stuff ever especially that one episode where worf had to fight that gauntlet and wouldnt quit.
not to mention everyone could fight and take care of themselves in a pinch , worf, sisko, kira, odo, o'brien and dax. oh yeah garak too id definelty liek to see some kind of hand to hand combat system implimented especially since weapons combat as far as the guns go was pretty basic and dull. hell imagine how deep hand to hand combat would be as a klingon and satisfying.
itsd also be cool to use holoprograms to practice and earn secret items and skills and overall promotions within the ranks could be interesting to see handled. but id rather be able to travel around in the space station more than i would a spaceship. but no matter which they do it should be fully realized and you should be able to visit every floor of it.
though filling each of them with interesting and convincing characters would be difficult to do outside of a mmorpg. but fi you could create a single player game like that id be all over it. hell maybe you could even play as a shape shifter.
not to mention everyone could fight and take care of themselves in a pinch , worf, sisko, kira, odo, o'brien and dax. oh yeah garak too id definelty liek to see some kind of hand to hand combat system implimented especially since weapons combat as far as the guns go was pretty basic and dull. hell imagine how deep hand to hand combat would be as a klingon and satisfying.
itsd also be cool to use holoprograms to practice and earn secret items and skills and overall promotions within the ranks could be interesting to see handled. but id rather be able to travel around in the space station more than i would a spaceship. but no matter which they do it should be fully realized and you should be able to visit every floor of it.
though filling each of them with interesting and convincing characters would be difficult to do outside of a mmorpg. but fi you could create a single player game like that id be all over it. hell maybe you could even play as a shape shifter.
[quote name='blandstalker'] When it works (Picard/Data or Sisko/Odo) it works great. When there's a weak link, it kind of falls apart, and all you have is a bunch of bland humans.[/QUOTE]
See Janeway/Seven.
I need to reflect more on your numerous comments. More later.
See Janeway/Seven.
I need to reflect more on your numerous comments. More later.
GuilewasNK
CAGiversary!
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Man, this topic didn't show up when I searced for some reason.
GuilewasNK
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='2Fast']Cloaking device [/quote]
Touche!
[/quote] Touche!
rickonker
CAGiversary!
[quote name='2Fast']Some Star Trek XI news:
Kinda sad that Herman Zimmerman won't be attached, he's one hell of a production designer IMO and certainly a major part of Star Trek.[/QUOTE]
Actually this is why I'm not so sure about Star Trek being under new management. Sure it's awesome that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are gone, but the old production crew was great. Seriously a new Star Trek movie with no one from before involved??
Kinda sad that Herman Zimmerman won't be attached, he's one hell of a production designer IMO and certainly a major part of Star Trek.[/QUOTE]
Actually this is why I'm not so sure about Star Trek being under new management. Sure it's awesome that Rick Berman and Brannon Braga are gone, but the old production crew was great. Seriously a new Star Trek movie with no one from before involved??
bread's done