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School board votes to add Bible elective

ODESSA, Texas (AP) -- The school board in the West Texas town of Odessa voted unanimously to add a Bible class to its high school curriculum.

Hundreds of people, most of them supporters of the proposal, packed the board meeting Tuesday night. More than 6,000 Odessa residents had signed a petition supporting the class.

Some residents, however, said the school board acted too quickly. Others said they feared a national constitutional fight.

Barring any hurdles, the class should be added to the curriculum in fall 2006 and taught as a history or literature course. The school board still must develop a curriculum, which board member Floy Hinson said should be open for public review.

The board had heard a presentation in March from Mike Johnson, a representative of the Greensboro, North Carolina-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools, who said that coursework designed by that organization is not about proselytizing or preaching.

But People for the American Way and the American Civil Liberties union have criticized the council, saying its materials promote religion.

Johnson said students in the elective class would learn such things as the geography of the Middle East and the influence of the Bible on history and culture.

"How can students understand Leonardo da Vinci's 'Last Supper' or Handel's 'Messiah' if they don't understand the reference from which they came?" Johnson said. The group's Web site says its curriculum has received backing in 292 school districts in 35 states.

In Frankenmuth, Michigan, a similar proposal led to a yearlong controversy before the school board voted in January not to offer such a course.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/04/27/bible.class.ap/index.html

Got to love Texas, this shit is just annoying, if they want more informed religous scholars where is the Torah class or the Koran, or any other book that is not the bible. These are the same people that hide creationism behind intelligent design. Gosh there are some idiots out there.
 
Yeah, Texas likes to give Florida a run for its money when it comes wacky governments. Hell, they both elected a Bush for governor so there's no accounting for taste. And I'm sure if Neil wasn't so completely corrupt and unelectable (even for a Bush), that he'd be running Kansas.
 
they should just change it to a basic religion class, and empasize the bible (any western religious class is going to do that anyway). It is not like the states do not pay for these courses to be taught at a higher level anyways. I would have no problem with it personally if that did occur
 
Where's "Buddhism 101"?

I want a class on Wiccan history and religion.

If that was said to the people screaming for that Bible class, they'd be screaming about it. fuckng hypocrites.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']they should just change it to a basic religion class, and empasize the bible (any western religious class is going to do that anyway). It is not like the states do not pay for these courses to be taught at a higher level anyways. I would have no problem with it personally if that did occur[/QUOTE]

Agree. If they want religion classes that's fine, although I should think they should be electives. If they want to let people off to study religion outside school I don't have any problem with that, either.

Obviously any history class involving Western civilization or any religion class is going to involve some study of the Bible, and appropriately so since it's the most influential book in the history of Western civilization. However, it does seem strange to single out such a specific subject, one book, in a high school class. It sounds like something more appropriately left to college curricula. Although one could argue pretty convincingly that a community can provide what classes it wants in a school as long as they are not violating someone's rights by forcing religion on them.
 
Is the bible really that great a work of literature? Beyond Genesis and Revelations, it's a pretty boring read (Jesus parts especially). You want some good stuff from the old days, just pick up some Virgil or Suetonius, those dudes knew how to write.
 
[quote name='camoor']Is the bible really that great a work of literature? Beyond Genesis and Revelations, it's a pretty boring read (Jesus parts especially). You want some good stuff from the old days, just pick up some Virgil or Suetonius, those dudes knew how to write.[/QUOTE]

And really only about half of Genesis is worth reading if you want to nit pick. :lol:
 
now that I think about it my lit. class in high school had a lot of native american stories that were passed down generations before being written (same thing as the Bible) and we had to read those stories (basicly equating to the Native American religion) however we weren't required to read Genesis (the creation story for not just Christians but Jews and Muslims) That's not very fair...
And I agree that a Bible class isn't a good idea for a public school...if it included more than just the bible but other religions and books it would make a lot more sense...more of an intellectual study instead of stuck up hypocritical so called Christian kids
 
[quote name='camoor']Is the bible really that great a work of literature? Beyond Genesis and Revelations, it's a pretty boring read (Jesus parts especially). You want some good stuff from the old days, just pick up some Virgil or Suetonius, those dudes knew how to write.[/QUOTE]

Great work of literature? No probably not. Extremely important to the advancement of literature in the Western world? Yes it technically is, but not for the actual content that is written in it.
 
This is what I think should be done.

The school should have a bible class. Then the school should lose its tax-exempt status which is good for the people living in that neighborhood because they will get some extra-money in their pockets.

Sure, the school system will go to hell but at least it will help the local economy.
 
Usually, I just go around and read posts on here but this one is gonna make me respond. I actually live in Odessa. This class will be an elective. It is not mandatory for anyone to go to. I went to school here and have lived here for 27 of my 32 years. This really has nothing to do with anyone else. If you have a problem with what we do, then don't come here. We will not miss you. We actually still have a very Christian based community here and this is something which we want to have at our schools. So for all of the people who like to be a part of the popular crowd right now and hate on the Bible, then don't come to Odessa. Like I said earlier, we will not miss you.
 
Also, this is the full AP report. The CNN one is missing a few things.

ODESSA, Texas (AP) -- The school board in this West Texas town has voted unanimously to add an elective Bible class to its high school curriculum.

Hundreds of people, most of them supporters of the proposal, packed the board meeting Tuesday night. More than 6,000 Odessa residents had signed a petition supporting the class.

Some residents, however, said they feared a national constitutional fight. Others said the school board acted too quickly.

One woman said she was concerned the board was going ahead with a course without knowing what the curriculum would be.

"It may be wonderful to have the class, but please go slowly and proceed with caution," Becki Smith told the board.

Barring any hurdles, the class should be added to the curriculum in fall 2006 as an elective course and taught as a history or literature course.

The school board still must develop a curriculum, which board member Floy Hinson said should be open for public review.

"My concern is that it was done too quickly and without enough input from the community," Hinson said Wednesday. He said the main question is the curriculum for the course, and how effectively and safely it can be taught.

Hinson said he had been assured by a deputy superintendent that the district would reach out to all aspects of the community for advice.

"We'll go slowly and give the community a chance to look at it," Wendell Sollis, the district's superintendent, said Wednesday. "If we don't find anything that's satisfactory, we won't go forward with it."

In Texas, 49 school districts offer the course, said Elizabeth Ridenour, president of the Greensboro, N.C.-based National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools.

More than 170,000 students in about 1,125 junior highs and high schools nationwide have taken the course, she said.

The board had heard a presentation in March from Mike Johnson, a representative of the council, who said that coursework designed by that organization is not about proselytizing or preaching.

But the American Civil Liberties Union and People for the American Way have criticized the council.

"The fact that something is happening doesn't mean it's legal," said Judith Schaeffer, deputy legal director of People for the American Way. "It can't teach the Bible. It can teach about the Bible."

Johnson said students in the elective class would learn such things as the geography of the Middle East and the influence of the Bible on history and culture.

"How can students understand Leonardo da Vinci's `Last Supper' or Handel's `Messiah' if they don't understand the reference from which they came?" Johnson said. The group's Web site says its curriculum has received backing in 292 school districts in 35 states.

In Frankenmuth, Mich., a similar proposal led to a yearlong controversy before the school board voted in January not to offer such a course.


*****
Also I have heard that it is mostly a religious study class and it will dleve into other religions as well. So everyone can be happy. So before everyone gets out their torches, you should know more about the full story. But I guess that is not the way with most people anymore.
 
So this is the same Odessa, TX of "Friday Night Lights" fame. Interesting...

What I don't understand is why Sunday school is not enough for some people. Why must they keep pushing for religious topics in high school such as this bible class and creation theory? With the failing national test scores, why must there be a push for elective classes that don't address the fact that kids aren't learning the basics of reading, math and science? I love the example that this is so kids can understand "The Last Supper" and "The Messisah" better. Are there a lot of Art History & Classical Music Appreciation classes in high school?
 
Personally, I have no opposition. As long as its truly a scholarly pursuit and not necessarily a religious one then there's nothing wrong with it in my eyes. Are you saying there aren't such things as bible scholars?

The question is, is it unfair to other religious denominations. Like Islam, Judaism or Buddism. But as long as those faiths are discussed in relation to the Bible and Christian tradition in the curriculum, I don't see how that's exclusion. Especially since a relaible course would have to include comparisons to the Koran, the similarities between the teachings of Jesus and Buddism, and the fact that the Christian bible is built upon the Jewish Torah.

So I find there's nothing wrong with having such a course. If it was on a college campus there would be no problem, but if it's in a lower school it's an issue? I've read the bible and studies it in a historical and social context. That doesn't mean I'm some "Jesus freak." It's expanded my understanding of the world, history, and brought up new subjects that I may have not considered. Reading the religious texts of different societies is an important part in the intellectual development of any individual.

This is also something I have a strong conflict with in education today. The problem with todays education is that we focus on Math, Science, and Reading. Those are extremely important cores to any education. But we don't raise our children to be human. We don't, due to what many think is a lack of time and funding, develop the othere aspects of intellectualization that is important for children to learn and grow as adults. The humanities, arts, history, literature, and even simple things like ethics, civil affairs and media understanding. These are part and parcel with the whole of education. How do you expect a kid to try hard in math when he has no understanding of why it's important to do well in the subject. And if his natural aptitude isn't in one of the core three he can flourish in one of the other side professions.

So, I have no objection to a bible studies class as long it's a truly objective study of the bible and not, as the ACLU lawyer said, a bible-teaching class.
 
Wouldn't it be fun if it actually DID turn out to be an objective, responsible bible study class? They could go over all the massive inconsistencies, the arbitrary cruelness of some of God's judgements, and the parts that simply don't make any sense (Jesus's cursing of a fig tree being my favorite.) Can you imagine the screams of anguish that would rip through that town? :p
 
[quote name='Drocket']Wouldn't it be fun if it actually DID turn out to be an objective, responsible bible study class? They could go over all the massive inconsistencies, the arbitrary cruelness of some of God's judgements, and the parts that simply don't make any sense (Jesus's cursing of a fig tree being my favorite.) Can you imagine the screams of anguish that would rip through that town? :p[/QUOTE]

You seem to forget objective means looking at both sides...Your idea seems like a class dealing with just inaccuarcies and what you say doesn't make sense, so it hardly seems objective.
 
No, they can cover all the 'good' stuff, too. I'm just quite certain that even one single passing criticism of the bible would have a lot of people in that town screaming for the teacher's blood.
 
You guys are not seeing the other side of this. A bible study class would be very helpful for someone taking say AP English. It is very helpful to learn about bibical reference. My AP English teacher assigned passage from the Bible to help prepare for the AP exams. Of couse I dont think they need to spend more than 2 weeks on this but the bible is very useful in learning about western civilization. The problem is that I do think there will be too much preaching when it is taught in a HS.
 
[quote name='62t']You guys are not seeing the other side of this. A bible study class would be very helpful for someone taking say AP English. It is very helpful to learn about bibical reference. My AP English teacher assigned passage from the Bible to help prepare for the AP exams. Of couse I dont think they need to spend more than 2 weeks on this but the bible is very useful in learning about western civilization. The problem is that I do think there will be too much preaching when it is taught in a HS.[/QUOTE]

How is learning the bible helpful to learning about western civilization? The Bible doesn't get too in depth after the first few centuries. Also considering that the religion is partly derived from the ideas of a preexisting religion (Judaism) which has its origins in the Middle East, I don't understand how it can be done. You can't consider the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition part of the Bible since they were about the religion the bible talks about but there is nothing in the Bible that talks about those 2 events.
 
[quote name='roachman313']...I actually live in Odessa. This class will be an elective. It is not mandatory for anyone to go to. I went to school here and have lived here for 27 of my 32 years. This really has nothing to do with anyone else. If you have a problem with what we do, then don't come here. We will not miss you. We actually still have a very Christian based community here and this is something which we want to have at our schools. So for all of the people who like to be a part of the popular crowd right now and hate on the Bible, then don't come to Odessa. Like I said earlier, we will not miss you.[/QUOTE]

So you want everyone who disagrees with Odessa's new school curriculum to leave Odessa? How very christian of you.
 
[quote name='camoor']So you want everyone who disagrees with Odessa's new school curriculum to leave Odessa? How very christian of you.[/QUOTE]


Hey Camoor, dont disciminate against the Odessa Christian Minority, What Would Clinton Do......
 
[quote name='camoor']Is the bible really that great a work of literature? Beyond Genesis and Revelations, it's a pretty boring read (Jesus parts especially). You want some good stuff from the old days, just pick up some Virgil or Suetonius, those dudes knew how to write.[/QUOTE]

Obviously its greatness is arguable, but what isn't arguable is the fact that it is the most influential book in the history of Western civilization.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']How is learning the bible helpful to learning about western civilization?[/QUOTE]

See my post above. Please name one book that is more influential in Western civilization than the Bible.
 
Barring any hurdles, the class should be added to the curriculum in fall 2006 and taught as a history or literature course.
Click to expand...

Bible as history course? I knew it could be used to teach science (creationism) and the American legal profession (the ten commandments), but I didn't realize it was historically accurate as well.

Maybe someday the "christian" politicians can use the bible to learn ethics and morality. From what I know about Jesus Christ, I don't think he would endorse the greed, corruption, and expansive war-hawk mentality of imperial politicians such as Tom Delay and George W Bush.

Then again, I thought Jesus Christ had a liberal philosophy on life. Who am I, a mere mortal, to argue with the religious right who have a leader that literally speaks to the christian god.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Obviously its greatness is arguable, but what isn't arguable is the fact that it is the most influential book in the history of Western civilization.[/QUOTE]

If that is the true intent, then let's do it. Let's trot out the Crusades, the Inquisition, all the suffering and ignorance (including horrific wars over petty religious squabbles and ignorance about hygiene/law/engineering lost from Roman times) that occured during the long period of absolute christian church control (also known as the dark ages).

Yes. A very influential book.
 
[quote name='camoor']If that is the true intent, then let's do it. Let's trot out the Crusades, the Inquisition, all the suffering and ignorance (including horrific wars over petty religious squabbles and ignorance about hygiene/law/engineering lost from Roman times) that occured during the long period of absolute christian church control (also known as the dark ages).

Yes. A very influential book.[/QUOTE]

How about being the catalyst for the success of Gutenberg's printing press? The bible was the first book made in mass production in the western world. The mass production of a book that nearly everyone in the western world knew or and could now read helped spread literacy, which sparked deabte and ideas. In short the printing press imporved the situation of the western world, helped further cultural movements like the Northern European Renaissance, and was important to the establishment of new religions such as the Protestant Reformation. I'm not saying this class will cover such things, I have no idea, I can't even say for sure if I like the idea. But all that is history influenced by and related to the bible and you don't need to be religious to study that. But you always go on about history so I figured you'd be the last guy that needed this explained to him.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']See my post above. Please name one book that is more influential in Western civilization than the Bible.[/QUOTE]

See, I wasn't alluding to its influence on the world. I just couldn't understand how it could be applied in a history class in contrast to a class learning about a religion. Its influence is undeniable but irrelevant to my particular question.
 
I swear, some people will attack anything just because it has something to do with religion. Why are some people upset over this? Why is this even news?!

It an ELECTIVE. As in not required. Colleges all over the globe have religion studies courses, and no one bitches about those. Whats the problem with letting people who are interested take these kinds of courses earlier in their scholastic career? It sounds like many people simply assume that this class is simply for the Bible thumpers to get their jollies or to force feed people religion. What about the people out there that are interested in these kinds studies. Learning the ins and outs of all the major religions (hell, maybe just so they can bash them with more efficiency).
Which leads to the only really valid argument, in my opinion, which is should all the other religions feature the same treatment. I have nothing against it, but you have to account for the demands of these other religions in Texas, most of all. If you aren't going to fill the classroom, its not worth hiring a teacher for it.
 
[quote name='camoor']Bible as history course? I knew it could be used to teach science (creationism) and the American legal profession (the ten commandments), but I didn't realize it was historically accurate as well.
[/QUOTE]

It doesn't have to be historically accurate (as in giving the correct year that an event happened) to be able to teach us something about history. I just finished a class entitled "Christians, Romans and Jews." It looked at Romans, Mark, Hebrews, 1 Peter and a couple others to show what the Christian community in Rome was like.

So when you read about persecution and suffering in 1 Peter, and you combine that with the fact that we know Nero persecuted Christians in the 60s, then you gain a little insight in to history.
 
[quote name='KingSpike']It doesn't have to be historically accurate (as in giving the correct year that an event happened) to be able to teach us something about history. I just finished a class entitled "Christians, Romans and Jews." It looked at Romans, Mark, Hebrews, 1 Peter and a couple others to show what the Christian community in Rome was like.

So when you read about persecution and suffering in 1 Peter, and you combine that with the fact that we know Nero persecuted Christians in the 60s, then you gain a little insight in to history.[/QUOTE]

Unless you compare the Bible's account to a contemporary Roman historian's account, that is an extremely one-sided and biased approach to the study of history.

As a classics minor in College, not once did one of my Egyptian/Greek/Roman history professors even dare to suggest that the Bible should be cracked opened and examined for it's contributions to the historical record. Similarly, when studying Roman history, Vergil's Aeneid and Ovid's Metamorphoses were not used to fact check the writings of true historians such as Livy and Polybius.

The fact is that the Bible gives extremely little insight into the actual historical events taking place in the Egyptian and Roman Empires, and it's historical accuracy should be discussed in doctoral dissertations and not "Ancient History 101" type courses.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']How about being the catalyst for the success of Gutenberg's printing press? The bible was the first book made in mass production in the western world. The mass production of a book that nearly everyone in the western world knew or and could now read helped spread literacy, which sparked deabte and ideas. In short the printing press imporved the situation of the western world, helped further cultural movements like the Northern European Renaissance, and was important to the establishment of new religions such as the Protestant Reformation. I'm not saying this class will cover such things, I have no idea, I can't even say for sure if I like the idea. But all that is history influenced by and related to the bible and you don't need to be religious to study that. But you always go on about history so I figured you'd be the last guy that needed this explained to him.[/QUOTE]

So you think that without the bible, noone would have invented the mechanics of a printing press? That's like saying that without apple trees, Newton would have never discovered gravity.

And the Bible led to the splintering of the catholic church into new christian sects. Whopedy-doo, that should make up for all the Jews and innocents torutured and killed during the inquisition. Like I said, let's do this right and I'm all for it.
 
[quote name='camoor']So you think that without the bible, noone would have invented the mechanics of a printing press? That's like saying that without apple trees, Newton would have never discovered gravity.

And the Bible led to the splintering of the catholic church into new christian sects. Whopedy-doo, that should make up for all the Jews and innocents torutured and killed during the inquisition. Like I said, let's do this right and I'm all for it.[/QUOTE]

You call yourself a student of history but have no respect for it apparently. You act like the bible has no history on this Earth worth mentioning, yet I give give you an example and you weakly dismiss because it doesn't fit your idea. I never said without the bible the printing press would've never been invented. I said it was a mjor contributor to the success of it. There are reasons why the bible was picked to be the first mass printed book, because it was something everyone knew. Gutenburg printed other books on the same printing press, but his invention though influential made him no real money it shows you how much use average people had for books thens, practically none because they first couldn't afford or even read them before the invention. The bible was something everyone knew about even if they were illiterate they knew what it was, it was something they could relate to so they bought the one book they had some undertanding of.

You focus on the wrongs of men performed in the name of a book. By the same token I could say the Koran is responisble for all Islamic terrorists or astrocities in the name of religion can be blamed on the scriptures rather the men who actually commit them. Examples like the Inquisition are religious history, coming from the wrong men leading a religion. They aren't what someone would call biblical history, or even a direct history of the bible as a book. In all I think you're letting your hatred of christians cloud your view and you are trying to use history only when it fits your position.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']You call yourself a student of history but have no respect for it apparently. You act like the bible has no history on this Earth worth mentioning, yet I give give you an example and you weakly dismiss because it doesn't fit your idea.[/QUOTE]

Let's be clear. I never said that the bible has no history on this Earth worth mentioning. The Bible has been responsible for more ignorance, torture, and useless war then any other book that I can think of.
 
[quote name='camoor']Let's be clear. I never said that the bible has no history on this Earth worth mentioning. The Bible has been responsible for more ignorance, torture, and useless war then any other book that I can think of.[/QUOTE]

Sorry you said it contributed nothing to the historical record, I apoligize. But I hope you can see where I got that impression from the way you talk...

I still disagree with your idea that the bible is responisble, books are inanimate objects that are not capable of performing actions like torture and killing. Wicked and ignorant fools are responsible IMO. I guess you could compare it to all the people who blame video games for the corruption of America's youth. I can see the viewpoint I just don't think it holds alot of water, blaming people or even religion imparticular makes sense to me, but blaming a book for the deaths at the hands of men seems too strange to me.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Sorry you said it contributed nothing to the historical record, I apoligize. But I hope you can see where I got that impression from the way you talk...

I still disagree with your idea that the bible is responisble, books are inanimate objects that are not capable of performing actions like torture and killing. Wicked and ignorant fools are responsible IMO. I guess you could compare it to all the people who blame video games for the corruption of America's youth. I can see the viewpoint I just don't think it holds alot of water, blaming people or even religion imparticular makes sense to me, but blaming a book for the deaths at the hands of men seems too strange to me.[/QUOTE]

If the goal of the people who wrote the bible was to teach people to have compassion for fellow human beings and promote peace, then the book clearly failed. Did the book grow legs and storm the muslim holy lands during the midieval crusades? No. Was the christian religion (supposedly based on the teachings of the bible) to blame for this unprovoked act of war? Yes.

If you are arguing that within the mideval/modern christian church there are hypocritical liars and simple-minded fundamentalists who cannot properly understand their own religious texts, then I think you may be on to something...
 
How has it failed?!? I'd like to see numbers (which obviously you wouldn't be able to provide) because I gaurantee for every person that used it to inflict pain, another has found some kind of safe haven in it.
It may not have a perfect record, but it didn't clearly FAIL anything.
 
[quote name='p00p']How has it failed?!? I'd like to see numbers (which obviously you wouldn't be able to provide) because I gaurantee for every person that used it to inflict pain, another has found some kind of safe haven in it.
It may not have a perfect record, but it didn't clearly FAIL anything.[/QUOTE]

50% was a failing grade where I went to school. I'm just saying... :)
 
[quote name='camoor']If the goal of the people who wrote the bible was to teach people to have compassion for fellow human beings and promote peace, then the book clearly failed. Did the book grow legs and storm the muslim holy lands during the midieval crusades? No. Was the christian religion (supposedly based on the teachings of the bible) to blame for this unprovoked act of war? Yes.

If you are arguing that within the mideval/modern christian church there are hypocritical liars and simple-minded fundamentalists who cannot properly understand their own religious texts, then I think you may be on to something...[/QUOTE]

That basically is what I'm saying. I think we disagree on the volume by which it occurs, but we're on the same level. Like I said earlier, whether I agree with it or not, I can easily see someone blaming religion and the way religion is run. Yes it was formed on certain principles most of which came from the new testament, but over the history of a couple thousand years you were bound to get foolish people misinterpreting their scripture and abusing their power in the system. It's a little like playing telephone when you were a kid, the message starts as one thing, but by the time it reaches the end the sae message is very mixed up, and someitmes people along the way screw that message up by either accident or on purpose.

I think the bible has been a "success" for some people and a "failure" for others. The problem is when it "fails" it often effects many other people. I also think that when we speak of sucesses and failures like that it's important to note that you are viewing the bible like a teaching tool of the christian religion. But a tool can only go so far if the person teaching with it doesn't know what they are doing, or if the student doesn't really want to take the time to understand.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']That basically is what I'm saying. I think we disagree on the volume by which it occurs, but we're on the same level. Like I said earlier, whether I agree with it or not, I can easily see someone blaming religion and the way religion is run. Yes it was formed on certain principles most of which came from the new testament, but over the history of a couple thousand years you were bound to get foolish people misinterpreting their scripture and abusing their power in the system. It's a little like playing telephone when you were a kid, the message starts as one thing, but by the time it reaches the end the sae message is very mixed up, and someitmes people along the way screw that message up by either accident or on purpose.

I think the bible has been a "success" for some people and a "failure" for others. The problem is when it "fails" it often effects many other people. I also think that when we speak of sucesses and failures like that it's important to note that you are viewing the bible like a teaching tool of the christian religion. But a tool can only go so far if the person teaching with it doesn't know what they are doing, or if the student doesn't really want to take the time to understand.[/QUOTE]

Yes, the bible can be seen as a tool, and if the tool can be used as a force of good and evil (or historically speaking peace and war / freedom and enslavement), then I think it's necessary to properly analyze and admit that fact. Like I said, looking at the true historical impact of the bible, as a tool, would certainly be enlightening and if done honestly IMO it would backfire on the objectives of misguided fundamentalists and zealous christians like our resident roachman.
 
[quote name='MrBadExample']50% was a failing grade where I went to school. I'm just saying... :)[/QUOTE]

True, but the bible turned in the optional extra credit term paper worth an addition 10 points to its final grade. So it got a D.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']See, I wasn't alluding to its influence on the world. I just couldn't understand how it could be applied in a history class in contrast to a class learning about a religion. Its influence is undeniable but irrelevant to my particular question.[/QUOTE]

You should have read Duo's post right above yours with regards to the printing press. You don't think the Bible and Christianity had an influence on art, politics, science, etc. etc. etc.? I can go on an on in that area. You'd be hard pressed to find an area not influenced by religion through history, and the dominant religion throughout Western civilization in the last 2,000 years has been Christianity, and the Bible is the most important text in Christianity. I can't believe you don't recognize the Bible's influence on history.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']You should have read Duo's post right above yours with regards to the printing press. You don't think the Bible and Christianity had an influence on art, politics, science, etc. etc. etc.? I can go on an on in that area. You'd be hard pressed to find an area not influenced by religion through history, and the dominant religion throughout Western civilization in the last 2,000 years has been Christianity, and the Bible is the most important text in Christianity. I can't believe you don't recognize the Bible's influence on history.[/QUOTE]

Please reread the last sentence of my previous post. I said that its influence is undeniable but irrelevant to my particular question. I don't doubt the bible's influence on history. I was referring more to the content within being used in a historical context (like a history book) vs. using the bible as its proper usage - a religious tome.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']Please reread the last sentence of my previous post. I said that its influence is undeniable but irrelevant to my particular question. I don't doubt the bible's influence on history. I was referring more to the content within being used in a historical context (like a history book) vs. using the bible as its proper usage - a religious tome.[/QUOTE]

Then it wasn't clear, because here is what you wrote:

[quote name='jaykrue']I just couldn't understand how it could be applied in a history class in contrast to a class learning about a religion.[/quote]

So unless you are changing/clarifying your position to you do understand how it could be applied in a history class, that seems to be contradictory.

But I agree with you that it should be used in a historical context unless doing a comparative religious study.
 
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