HD Scaler issues clarified (yes it does have one)

dpatel

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http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/ps3scaler/
The key words in that last paragraph would be “until now,” because with the latest PlayStation 3 software development kit (SDK) update, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) has finally exposed part of the built-in hardware scaler to developers.

Looks like it has been there all along, but only recent development kits actually made use of it, which explains why PS2/PS1 games can now display in 480p. Although, from what I read, so far, they have only unlocked the horizontal scaler (which can upscale from 'i' to 'p'), and not the vertical scaler too which would allow upscaling from 480 to either 720p/1080i/1080p. We don't know why Sony has only unlocked the horizontal portion now, and we don't know why they aren't allowing developers to access the vertical portion (as this would solve the 1080i only TVs problems as well as allow upscaling of DVDs and PS2/PS1 games).

There is a lot of technology mumbo jumbo in there, but I think I got the basic gist of it.

I'm pretty most of us figured it did have one after the update that fixed BC games, but here is some clarification.
 
It's good to know that there isn't any massive hardware issue that gets in the way of upscaling. That's what seems to have scared away a number of the HDTV-savvy CAGs away from the system thus far.

Now we know it has one, so it's time to move from "can it be fixed?" to "fix it now, mamma jamma!"
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's good to know that there isn't any massive hardware issue that gets in the way of upscaling. That's what seems to have scared away a number of the HDTV-savvy CAGs away from the system thus far.

Now we know it has one, so it's time to move from "can it be fixed?" to "fix it now, mamma jamma!"[/QUOTE]

indeed. Originally, I was afraid that it was a hardware issue, which would be impossible to fix unless a newer version PS3 was released. As an HDTV owner that can't support 720p, this makes me a LITTLE happier. Now I just need them to unlock the rest of the damn thing.
 
Thank The Maker! Wow... if they unlock full scaling for 1080i HDTVs then I'll actually be picking up a PS3 in the (distant) future. Now all they need is an exclusive game or two worth playing! I'm looking at you God of War 3 and Hot Shots Golf 5...
 
Even tho they looked like ass before, ps1/2 games have always displayed in 480p on the PS3. I tested & confirmed this the week the system launched.

Regardless, it is good news to hear about the scaler. I maintain that all of these issues will be resolved in the next few months, just like the BC issue was this week.
 
[quote name='argyle']Even tho they looked like ass before, ps1/2 games have always displayed in 480p on the PS3. I tested & confirmed this the week the system launched. [/QUOTE]

Really? Even the ones that didn't support 480p in the first place? I know no PS1 games supported 480p originally and most PS2 games didn't either (unless they specified 'progressive scan' on the back).
 
[quote name='argyle']Even tho they looked like ass before, ps1/2 games have always displayed in 480p on the PS3. I tested & confirmed this the week the system launched.[/quote]

Just because the system displayed in 480p (lowerst setting it has btw), doesn't mean it was CORRECTLY upscaling from 480i.
 
Yup - I popped in Tomba! my first day of owning a PS3, mainly to see if it would run (it was one of the few games that wouldn't work on the PS2). I noticed that not only did it play fine, but it was running in 480p. Verified others were running 480p as well that didn't support it - ZOE2, for example.

EDIT: I can't speak to "correctly" or "incorrectly", but it WAS displaying in that resolution.
 
[quote name='argyle']Yup - I popped in Tomba! my first day of owning a PS3, mainly to see if it would run (it was one of the few games that wouldn't work on the PS2). I noticed that not only did it play fine, but it was running in 480p. Verified others were running 480p as well that didn't support it - ZOE2, for example.

EDIT: I can't speak to "correctly" or "incorrectly", but it WAS displaying in that resolution.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. So, then, do you know what the problem was. I assumed that the reason PS2/PS1 games looked like ass on the PS3 was because they couldn't upscale it to 480p.
 
See... The PS3, can't do 480i so it HAS to upscale to 480p.

There was a problem with the filter that helped it refit everything back together as it scretched the images to fit 480p.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's good to know that there isn't any massive hardware issue that gets in the way of upscaling. That's what seems to have scared away a number of the HDTV-savvy CAGs away from the system thus far.

Now we know it has one, so it's time to move from "can it be fixed?" to "fix it now, mamma jamma!"[/QUOTE]

I'm in that camp. Well, I don't know what to make of this. If it has been there all along why didn't they say so when we first found out about the lack of 1080i scaling? Instead they said it only effected a few people or blamed our TV's, or whatever. And WTF is up with not having this available from day one anyway? For sure I would have picked up a PS3 by now if it had been turned on from day one or they at least had promised that it WOULD be on soon.

Now, even if they fix it tomorrow the moment has passed - I'm holding off and am now on the fence about PS3 vs 360. There is nothing I'd want to play on the PS3 now or in the near future (except Oblivion which obviously is not going to push me towards the PS3 though it helps). I see more *potential* in the PS3 only in that after 1+ year, there are only 2 or 3 360 games I'd want to play and I was a big fan of the PS2's RPG collection. On the flip side, things seem to be improving for the 360 (from being solely a FPS/zombie/sports/racing console) - Mass Effect has me intrigued.

Bah - I want ONE of them to make a move (price drop/bundle/revision)!
 
The general consensus about this not being made available earlier seems to be that the PS3 was rushed and Sony was facing time constraints. That is really the only logical thing I can think of to explain the lack of this feature being apparent originally.
 
[quote name='dpatel']The general consensus about this not being made available earlier seems to be that the PS3 was rushed and Sony was facing time constraints. That is really the only logical thing I can think of to explain the lack of this feature being apparent originally.[/QUOTE]

What about Sony Electronic's intent to sell their newer model HDTVs? Call me cynical, but I think that that is the reason.
 
so all PS2 games are being displayed in 480p on the PS3?

-edit-
yup guess this is right since my vga box that I use for my pc monitor only does 480p and up resolutions, and I just tried FF12, which I guess only does 480i, and it works, though I think it still looks better through the PS2.

Even just comparing at the startup the Playstation 2 logo, between actual PS2 running on Svideo vs. PS3 running through component through VGA box at 480p, there is noticeable pixelation on the outside edges of the PS2 text and in game as well though not as noticeable since most of the time it's in motion. I don't know if this is normal or not. Can anybody who has both PS2/PS3 let me know if it's the system's fault or my VGA box's fault? It's pretty much like playing a pc game at 640x480 resolution, fitting the image to fill the screen. I guess that must be the vga box's fault...

through the vga box, PS2 games are running at 640x480@60Hz according to my monitor's menu, and the PS2 running through S-video says NTSC@60Hz


here are some comparison shots:

Here's a shot of my PS2 running S-Video to my monitor

Here's a shot of the PS3 running component through the VGA box to the same monitor
 
[quote name='lurknomore']What about Sony Electronic's intent to sell their newer model HDTVs? Call me cynical, but I think that that is the reason.[/QUOTE]

Possible. Although, this issue affects such a small percentage of people that it doesn't seem plausible to me. But I don't know, maybe you are right. If so, that is pretty low.
 
So does that mean that REAL HD gaming begins now? :D

Seriously though, why be so tight lipped about this until now? If this does in fact play out, PS3 might be in my cards after all. I think non-720p owning Resistence lovers are still assed out until they patch that. And that's being if they even hook the damn thing up to the internet.
 
[quote name='CappyCobra']So does that mean that REAL HD gaming begins now? :D
[/QUOTE]

No. Until Sony announces it true HD gaming has not begun. Silly boy, you should know Sony controls everything.

Still waiting for DVD's to upscale properly.
 
The answer to why Sony has not enabled their HD scaler entirely on the PS3 is simple, and it has nothing to do with any technical mumbo-jumbo or the fact that Sony wants you to buy a new TV....

The launch of the PS3 served Sony in two ways. It put their new hardware on the market, and it also made available to the mainstream public (well, those willing to spend $500 - $600 dollars, anyway) their new disc format in all of its glory.

You may be asking, "what does this have to do with hardware scaling?" Well, as an accounting/finance major and avid video gamer that has examined the numbers of Sony for the last two years quarter by quarter, I will tell you that their earnings per share has shrunk considerably over that period. Their liabilities have also increased substantially over that period as they made more and more expenditures gearing up for the PS3 launch.

It is no secret that Sony was banking on a big launch to not only get their new video game hardware into homes, but to also put a Blu-Ray player in those homes as well. It is also no secret to anyone that does a little research that Sony is selling their hardware at a loss for the moment. So a company that has seen EPS shrink and liabilities grow over athe last few years is selling their company-saving system at a loss? What gives?

It is not the hardware that they are banking on saving their company. Sony knew going in that they would not see a profit on hardware sales until at least the third quarter of next year. They could see immediate profit, however, on blu-ray disc sales.

Is the lightbulb clicking on for any of you yet?

Here's the key for those still in the dark: Most consumers are not demanding videophiles, especially not the youth that many parents bought the system for. In fact, many consumers have their own standalone DVD player - most of them without upconversion - and in comparison, the PS3 does no better or worse job of playing DVDs than this unit. The consumers that do have upconverting DVD players won't be bemoaning the absence of upconversion on the PS3 for the most part either. Were upconversion turned on, they would be perfectly content to sit at home and watch up-converted SD-DVDs all day without ever worrying about Blu-Ray.

Sony didn't like that prospect. So what did they do? They kept the scaler off and packaged each launch unit with a shiny new copy of "Taladega Nights". Most people that bought the system did so for their kids, or simply because it was the newest piece of technology out ther for video games. They were (and likely still are) oblivious to scaling, upconverting, or anything else that has to do with the hardware or picture quality of the PS3. Sony was banking on their ignorance, because what those consumers did notice - without being aware that Sony was doing this on purpose - was that their current collection of SD-DVDs didn't look nearly as special as their shiny new copy of "Taladega Nights". The difference is astounding, and suddenly, the oblivious consumer that would have not worried about the Blu-Ray capabilities of the machine before are now hooked.

Sony kept the scaler off to emphasize the difference between SD-DVD and Blu-ray - and to push the sales of their new format. This helps them financially through sales, and indirectly because they can point to those sales numbers, and the numbers of units they have shipped, and say that theirs is the format that is gong to take off. It is a shrewd move by Sony, and one theat ultimately won't hurt them, but help them. It also helps all of us PS3 buyers that are hoping Blu-Ray doesn't go the way of the Beta Max.

There you have it folks. My not-so-conspiracy theory on why the scaler was not originally, and has not yet been turned on, despite its presence in the machine. It's not that they can't, or that they want you to buy TVs. They want you to buy Blu-Ray movie titles, and to entice you to do so, they will purposely make SD-DVDs look as poor as possible.

Now all of you CAGers that are upset about having to play Resistance in 480 are saying "well that's not fair! Why should I suffer?" The answer to that is that Sony has fooled you too. They have enticed you with promises of firmware updates, and mad speculation that the scaling issue will be fixed in the near future. What are you going to do anyway? Return it? After waiting so long for it to come out? They even try to make you feel like it is almost your fault for having a TV without support for 720p. But fear not, PS3-ers of the world. Papa Sony is working on an update - and it will be released as soon as Sony has sold enough Blu-Ray discs. :)

All of that said, I love my PS3. Gran Turismo HD, Resistance, Madden, Marvel, Blast Factor, Need for Spped, and other games have kept me busy and content - oh yeah, my TV supports 720p. :booty: Games run just fine for me, and as for SD-DVDs.... Sony's ploy worked on me. My Blu-Ray library now includes 12 titles, and I am considering picking up another today.....
 
[quote name='gizmogc']No. Until Sony announces it true HD gaming has not begun. Silly boy, you should know Sony controls everything.

Still waiting for DVD's to upscale properly.[/QUOTE]

Don't you have a 360 that does that? I know the PS3 should upscale DVDs, but you seem to be complaining just for the sake of it.
 
[quote name='dpatel']Don't you have a 360 that does that? I know the PS3 should upscale DVDs, but you seem to be complaining just for the sake of it.[/quote]
He wants every electronic component he owns to upconvert DVDs, including that fancy new digital blender.
I'll leave the upscaling to my Oppo DVD player, it'll always be my primary DVD player since it:

1. Upscales
2. Plays all regions
3. Plays NTSC/PAL

I know my PS3 and 360 won't ever do all 3.
 
Hate to toss a bucket of cold water on the celebration but you guys need to read the full article. This is not a retroactive activation of a previously hidden scaler. This is purely a compromise that requires developers to design around Sony's pseudo-solution. This isn't exposing any additional hardware functionality, it's formalising Sony's proposed workaround.

This is far short of having the freedom to optimize for a standard resolution and having the system deal almost entirely with getting that to what the consumer's screen can best handle.

I'm still amazed that Sony and Nvidia, with all the experience they have individually, never saw fit to put a full scaler in the RSX or separately on the board. At first I thought that surely the functionality was there and Sony just hadn't had time to get the firmware portion finished. But now, after talking to some developers, I'm told that it simply isn't there. After all of the cost overruns they decided to leave out another $5 worth of gates to cover this issue.

I'll probably own a PS3 someday but it's currently trailing on my most wanted list.
 
(SCEI) has finally exposed part of the built-in hardware scaler to developers.

I read the full article. Both pages. It does contain the above quote, and no where does it say that this is not a hardware scaler.

Maybe you should save the bucket of cold water until you have a reason to throw it.....
 
[quote name='dpatel']Don't you have a 360 that does that? I know the PS3 should upscale DVDs, but you seem to be complaining just for the sake of it.[/QUOTE]

Well, the 360 only upconverts if connected through a VGA port...which does me absolutely no good. So as far as I'm concerned, NEITHER of the 2 systems upconverts DVDs.
 
[quote name='SCps3player'](SCEI) has finally exposed part of the built-in hardware scaler to developers.

I read the full article. Both pages. It does contain the above quote, and no where does it say that this is not a hardware scaler.

Maybe you should save the bucket of cold water until you have a reason to throw it.....[/QUOTE]

The article is badly written and self-contradictory, to say the least. The procedure described for developers to follow indicates there is either no true scaler hardware or the worst implementation I've ever seen.

The RSX is a direct dirivative of the Nvidia 7x00 series. This isn't terra incognita for developers. As well, the PS3 board has been put under great scrutiny. There are no mysterious unexplained chips onboard. So, if it isn't in the RSX, where is it? And if it exists, why does it do so little?
 
[quote name='epobirs']The article is badly written and self-contradictory, to say the least. The procedure described for developers to follow indicates there is either no true scaler hardware or the worst implementation I've ever seen.

The RSX is a direct dirivative of the Nvidia 7x00 series. This isn't terra incognita for developers. As well, the PS3 board has been put under great scrutiny. There are no mysterious unexplained chips onboard. So, if it isn't in the RSX, where is it? And if it exists, why does it do so little?[/quote]

:roll:

Amongst the newer versions of the various tools included in the SDK lies a new function: the ability for developers to use some of the functionality of the fabled hardware scaler, a scaler many previously doubted existed at all.

The video scaler itself remains shrouded in mystery, as strange as it may seem, but at least now we can say with confidence that it does indeed exist.

There are two more quotes directly from the article that also say the hardware scaler is there. Whatever you may think of the quality of the prose in the article, it is not self-contradictory.

As for the scaler being poorly implemented, if you had read, you would see that the scaler is only being used for horizontal scaling at the moment. That enables the BC games to be upscaled from 480i to 480p. Hopefully the vertical scaling abilities will be unlocked soon as well.

I'm not sure if you are attempting to purposely mislead people about the content of the article (hoping that they will just take your word for it), or if you are in serious need of a little help on the reading comprehension front....

Either way, you are wrong. Yes, at this point the scaler is limited, but it is there. As for the scrutiny that has been placed on the PS3 board, apparently, they missed something - that, or they don't know enough to be doing the scrutiny in the first place. Of course, I'd like to see any article you could provide that definitively tells what each and every component and chip does in the PS3. So far, I've seen none that could do more than speculate.

If you know some PS3 devs (as you alluded to earlier), perhaps you could get one of them to come in here and enlighten us. Until then, keep looking for a reason to throw that bucket of water - though perhaps you should look away from this topic....
 
Who cares if this wasn't present on day one... I mean those who bought a ps3 are in it for the long run. so just as long as they get it up, then that's good.
Sony couldn't afford to hold the system any longer.
 
No offense taken at all.

Apart from the article, I'm pretty random here myself. I don't doubt that epobirs knows his stuff. I'm sure he keeps abreast of the news and articles that relate to the video game industry - just as I do.

Still, if there is an article out there that is more up-to-date than this one which states that the PS3 definitely has no hardware scaler, I'd like to see it. Like I said, all I have seen to date is conjecture and speculation - until this article came out.

I've not seen anything more recent refute that Sony did in fact turn on the horizontal portion of the scaler, nor have I seen any article since the last update say that there is no scaler. If epobirs is as knowledgeable as you say, then he can prove that there is not one.

If he does that, then I'll take his word for it. Until then......
 
[quote name='SCps3player']No offense taken at all.

Apart from the article, I'm pretty random here myself. I don't doubt that epobirs knows his stuff. I'm sure he keeps abreast of the news and articles that relate to the video game industry - just as I do.

Still, if there is an article out there that is more up-to-date than this one which states that the PS3 definitely has no hardware scaler, I'd like to see it. Like I said, all I have seen to date is conjecture and speculation - until this article came out.

I've not seen anything more recent refute that Sony did in fact turn on the horizontal portion of the scaler, nor have I seen any article since the last update say that there is no scaler. If epobirs is as knowledgeable as you say, then he can prove that there is not one.

If he does that, then I'll take his word for it. Until then......[/quote]

I don't know what to believe - all I know is that epobirs knows a lt about electronics/computing in general and that he is right more often than not. However, I really really hope you are right because I'm not buying a PS3 until this issue is resolved (and the PS3 can scale EVERYTHING to 1080i).
 
well i would like an answer to the best question on this thread.....

when the hell are they gonna unlock the damn thing so the people with 1080i tv's can experience what they paid for???
 
[quote name='tipp007']well i would like an answer to the best question on this thread.....

when the hell are they gonna unlock the damn thing so the people with 1080i tv's can experience what they paid for???[/QUOTE]

That, of course, is the $600 question. And the fact that Sony hasn't come out emphatically with an answer to that is troubling. Say what you want about the article, but it is wishy-washy and unclear. I wouldn't mind if it was going to be a few months or even a year or whatever. I simply won't buy one until it happens. I might consider buying one BEFORE it happens, though, if I had a firm commitment from Sony about fixing it. Otherwise, to the 360 I go...

Chitown021 - It is most definitely not a non-1080p issue. It is only on rear-projection CRT TV's (I think only CRT ones, right?) that do 480p and 1080i but do not support 720p. My SONY brand HDTV specifically converts 720p signals down to 480p. Thus all those purty graphics in games like Resistance which are not able to be displayed in 1080i by the PS3 will be no better than EDTV (480p) on my HDTV. This effects a great deal of non-plasma, non-DLP HDTV's sold before 2005, despite what the Sony spinmeisters would have you believe.
 
[quote name='io']That, of course, is the $600 question. And the fact that Sony hasn't come out emphatically with an answer to that is troubling. Say what you want about the article, but it is wishy-washy and unclear. I wouldn't mind if it was going to be a few months or even a year or whatever. I simply won't buy one until it happens. I might consider buying one BEFORE it happens, though, if I had a firm commitment from Sony about fixing it. Otherwise, to the 360 I go...

Chitown021 - It is most definitely not a non-1080p issue. It is only on rear-projection CRT TV's (I think only CRT ones, right?) that do 480p and 1080i but do not support 720p. My SONY brand HDTV specifically converts 720p signals down to 480p. Thus all those purty graphics in games like Resistance which are not able to be displayed in 1080i by the PS3 will be no better than EDTV (480p) on my HDTV. This effects a great deal of non-plasma, non-DLP HDTV's sold before 2005, despite what the Sony spinmeisters would have you believe.[/quote]

I'm REALLY worried that Sony still hasn't said or done anything about this problem. You'd think if it was a simple oversight we would have heard, "oops, our mistake, here you go" and an update would have been issued. I also have a 480p/1080i HDTV, and I won't touch a PS3 until this issue is fixed.
 
Thanks io for the heads up. I was wondering b/c I have a RCA 52" television that displays 480P, 720p, and 1080i. I downloaded the Resistance demo (still have not bought a game) and I thought it was running at 1080i.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Does the 1080i issue affect all TV's or just some? (that don't have 1080p).[/quote]
The 1080i isssue typically only affects older CRT HDTVs that only support 480p and 1080i. That's the type of TV I'm using right now, so even if Sony does drop the price and get good games I want out (and I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon) there is no way I'm picking up a PS3 until either I have a new HDTV to play the PS3 on, or the PS3 has a full hardware scaler that upconverts to 1080i.
 
[quote name='javeryh']It also affects my Panasonic plasma.[/QUOTE]

OK, I thought someone had mentioned that, which is why I wasn't sure about the CRT part. Well, there goes even more Sony propaganda out the window - this seems more widespread than even I imagined.

I'm with Kaijufan, though. While I was kind of hyped about getting a PS3 at launch, my enthusiasm died down both with the upscaler issue and with the general drop in interest everyone else has in it ;). I'll probably get a 360 right now, and then wait a few years until the PS3 is cheaper, and, more importantly, I have a 1080p TV and there are plenty of CAGey priced games to pick up (which saves us WAY more than any console price drop ever will).

But, like I've said many times here before, I probably would have gotten the PS3 had the scaler been in there and active (and there's a small chance I still will soon if they do something about it). The biggest game I want to play on the 360 is Oblivion which I would have preferred to play on the PS3, but oh well...
 
[quote name='io']OK, I thought someone had mentioned that, which is why I wasn't sure about the CRT part. Well, there goes even more Sony propaganda out the window - this seems more widespread than even I imagined.

I'm with Kaijufan, though. While I was kind of hyped about getting a PS3 at launch, my enthusiasm died down both with the upscaler issue and with the general drop in interest everyone else has in it ;). I'll probably get a 360 right now, and then wait a few years until the PS3 is cheaper, and, more importantly, I have a 1080p TV and there are plenty of CAGey priced games to pick up (which saves us WAY more than any console price drop ever will).

But, like I've said many times here before, I probably would have gotten the PS3 had the scaler been in there and active (and there's a small chance I still will soon if they do something about it). The biggest game I want to play on the 360 is Oblivion which I would have preferred to play on the PS3, but oh well...[/quote]

I never owned an Xbox. I never wanted an Xbox. I didn't think I'd really like the Xbox 360 but I'm a sucker for all things HD so I bit. I can't imagine not owning one at this point - it is fantastic. I also hope to get a PS3 down the line (I love love love my PS2) but right now they aren't appealing to me from either a hardware or software perspective - there's really not one good reason I can think of to own the PS3 at this point other than "potential" but that has taken a hit in recent weeks as compared to when the console launched (and the time leading up to launch).
 
[quote name='javeryh']I never owned an Xbox. I never wanted an Xbox. I didn't think I'd really like the Xbox 360 but I'm a sucker for all things HD so I bit. I can't imagine not owning one at this point - it is fantastic. I also hope to get a PS3 down the line (I love love love my PS2) but right now they aren't appealing to me from either a hardware or software perspective - there's really not one good reason I can think of to own the PS3 at this point other than "potential" but that has taken a hit in recent weeks as compared to when the console launched (and the time leading up to launch).[/QUOTE]

Haha - We have similar tastes then. I never had an Xbox and was never even tempted. The few console-exclusive games I wanted to play for it were mostly available for PC as well (Morrowind, KOTOR, etc). And I love the PS2 for RPG's and the quirky games (SOTC, Katamari, Okami, etc). If I get a 360 it will be simply because I'm thirsting for HD content on my 3 year-old HDTV that has never had a true HD signal put through it (closest is the 1080i out of Gran Turismo 4).

I know that I'm going to be a sucker for achievements though, so the only thing holding me back now is I know how much time I'll waste on it ;). Much the same reason I've stayed away from Disgaea and MMORPG's.
 
i will just keep playing my wii until further notice. they wont get a penny more from me unless the $hit is fixed..if it dont get fixed ill be selling my ps3.i got mine at launch and havent played more than 3 hours total on it to date. im pissed off at sony for this crap, i aint buyin no tv when my tv was made in 2005. efff them!!!
 
I got a PS3 in Dec and a Wii in early January. To date I have logged about 3 hrs total on the PS3 and 20 + hrs on the Wii. I'm not really pissed at Sony since I knew what I was getting into as far as launch titles. I think the main reason I wanted it (PS3) is what io said. I got a new HDTV last Christmas and I wanted a HD gizmo to use with it.

I will use it more soon (once I finish Zelda I will probably start finishing up some of my PS2 titles especially with the latest firmware fixing the graphics issues) and I don't think too many people that bought one at launch can be too upset. You knew what the game lineup would be like so you knew what you were getting into.

I have to admit had I gotten a launch day PS3 I would've sold it (my plan was to sell it for at least $1200 and get a system free).
 
[quote name='javeryh']It also affects my Panasonic plasma.[/QUOTE]

What is that model number? It must be pretty old to not accept a 720p or (obviously downconvert) 1080p signal, as I think just about any recent HD plasma I can think of is progessive by nature.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']What is that model number? It must be pretty old to not accept a 720p or (obviously downconvert) 1080p signal, as I think just about any recent HD plasma I can think of is progessive by nature.[/quote]

It's a TH-50PX20. I got it in January of 2004 so it's over 3 years old. I have ZERO regrets though - I still love it and I am amazed at the picture quality.
 
[quote name='javeryh']It's a TH-50PX20. I got it in January of 2004 so it's over 3 years old. I have ZERO regrets though - I still love it and I am amazed at the picture quality.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but you basically bought a progressive HDTV that doesn't accept any HD progressive signals apparently, my guess is just about any other set from that year (2003-2004) would. That's not say it's bad at all. I love the Panny plasmas, it's just odd to see a fairly recent TV do that. I'm curious how the tuner works then if it has one at all. Are you able to watch the 720p HD broadcasts of networks like Fox or ABC?
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']Yeah but you basically bought a progressive HDTV that doesn't accept any HD progressive signals apparently, my guess is just about any other set from that year (2003-2004) would. I'm curious how the tuner works then if it has one at all. Are you able to watch the 720p HD broadcasts of networks like Fox or ABC?[/quote]

I bought the best one Panasonic was offering at the time (they had an ED model as well). I did a ton of research but 720p wasn't really on my radar - at the time Fox and ABC didn't even broadcast in HD in my area (NYC - can you believe it?).

I think my cable box has a scaler in there so I'm not sure what's going on with TV broadcasts - I can watch Fox, ABC and any and all HD channels just fine. The cable box is set to output at 1080i (I think). I tried switching my Xbox 360 to 720p and I can't get a signal. I'm wondering if I could somehow use the HDMI port on the back of the TV if I could accept a 720p signal - right now everything is hooked up via component.
 
[quote name='javeryh']I bought the best one Panasonic was offering at the time (they had an ED model as well). I did a ton of research but 720p wasn't really on my radar - at the time Fox and ABC didn't even broadcast in HD in my area (NYC - can you believe it?).

I think my cable box has a scaler in there so I'm not sure what's going on with TV broadcasts - I can watch Fox, ABC and any and all HD channels just fine. The cable box is set to output at 1080i (I think). I tried switching my Xbox 360 to 720p and I can't get a signal. I'm wondering if I could somehow use the HDMI port on the back of the TV if I could accept a 720p signal - right now everything is hooked up via component.[/QUOTE]

I flipped through a PDF of the manual earlier because I was curious, it didn't look like you could a 720p signal even through HMDI. The manual I looked at could be different though, so it's always worth a shot...
 
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