Help fund Double Fines next game!

[quote name='Nelo Ice']if u think its so easy to make a game through a loan then :lol:. [/quote]No, it's not easy to secure a loan in order to finance a self-published game in a niche genre (at least by modern standards), which is why Double Fine wants you to assume the risk.

If they tried to finance the game, they might actually have to develop a budget, project timeline and an overall business plan. They might even be asked what the game is about.
 
Okay, last time to snark. I promise, but I just gotta squeeze one more out and I promise I have nothing to say on the matter beyond this.

Holy carp! GAMING IS SAVED FOREVER THE GLORIOUS RESURGENCE OF POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURES IS HERE! This game made in nine months will be the greatest thing ever!

What? Telltale? Never heard of it! Gray Matter? What's that? Don't be silly. Nobody has made an adventure game since Grim Fandango!
 
[quote name='Spokker']No, it's not easy to secure a loan in order to finance a self-published game in a niche genre (at least by modern standards), which is why Double Fine wants you to assume the risk.

If they tried to finance the game, they might actually have to develop a budget, project timeline and an overall business plan. They might even be asked what the game is about.[/QUOTE]

The project isn't even guaranteed unless it hits the donation goal. And have u even bothered reading the page?

FAQ

Q: What happens if you go over the goal?

A: The extra money will be put back into the game and documentary. This could result in anything from increased VO and music budgets to additional release platforms for the game.

Q: When can I expect the game to be finished?

A: We’re aiming to finish in October of 2012, but making games is hard and we’ll give the project as much time as needed to ensure the it meets our standards.

Big games cost big money. Even something as "simple" as an Xbox LIVE Arcade title can cost upwards of two or three million dollars. For disc-based games, it can be over ten times that amount. To finance the production, promotion, and distribution of these massive undertakings, companies like Double Fine have to rely on external sources like publishers, investment firms, or loans. And while they fulfill an important role in the process, their involvement also comes with significant strings attached that can pull the game in the wrong directions or even cancel its production altogether. Thankfully, viable alternatives have emerged and gained momentum in recent years.

Crowd-sourced fundraising sites like Kickstarter have been an incredible boon to the independent development community. They democratize the process by allowing consumers to support the games they want to see developed and give the developers the freedom to experiment, take risks, and design without anyone else compromising their vision. It's the kind of creative luxury that most major, established studios simply can't afford. At least, not until now.


Keeping the scale of the project this small accomplishes two things. First and foremost, Double Fine gets to make the game they want to make, promote it in whatever manner they deem appropriate, and release the finished product on their own terms. Secondly, since they’re only accountable to themselves, there’s an unprecedented opportunity to show the public what game development of this caliber looks like from the inside. Not the sanitized commercials-posing-as-interviews that marketing teams only value for their ability to boost sales, but an honest, in-depth insight into a modern art form that will both entertain and educate gamers and non-gamers alike.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']
What? Telltale? Never heard of it! Gray Matter? What's that? Don't be silly. Nobody has made an adventure game since Grim Fandango![/QUOTE]

They don't want modern point and click games that don't rely on the developer's moon-logic to solve puzzles.

When Telltale pitched Back to the Future: The Game, they probably had to work hard to develop a viable plan for the title and then sink their own money into it, something Double Fine apparently doesn't want to do.

Turns out that Back to the Future is their most successful franchise because people decided it was a good product and paid money for it.

So what about this is broken that requires Double Fine to go beg on Kickstarter? How did Telltale afford Christopher Lloyd if this genre is living such a hard knock life?
 
[quote name='Nelo Ice']The project isn't even guaranteed unless it hits the donation goal. And have u even bothered reading the page?[/QUOTE]

I read the entire thing. A FAQ is not a business plan.

I also liked the line, "Crowd-sourced fundraising sites like Kickstarter have been an incredible boon to the independent development community." Double Fine isn't exactly an indie developer in the traditional sense. They make Kinect games for Christ's sake.
 
[quote name='stevo1002']I wish it were psychonauts 2 :/[/QUOTE]

I know this may be a crazy thought, but if this game and the documentary take off publishers will be lining up to publish the next Double Fine game. Tim has already said he wants to do Psychonauts 2 a number of times so I am pretty sure it's on the top of his priority list.
 
[quote name='Spokker']http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/the-new-venture-capital-10202011-gfx.html[/QUOTE]

A few journalists may like to call it venture capital for keyword hits, but I think we both know it is not.

[quote name='Spokker']I read the entire thing. A FAQ is not a business plan.[/QUOTE]
Agree, it's not even close to a business plan.

I also liked the line, "Crowd-sourced fundraising sites like Kickstarter have been an incredible boon to the independent development community." Double Fine isn't exactly an indie developer in the traditional sense. They make Kinect games for Christ's sake.

They aren't wrong by phrasing it that way; it's meant to take the literal meaning of 'independent development' instead of the traditional meaning; the game is independent/free from publishers control on the creative development.
 
This is nothing more than a super far in advance pre-order. Don't see the big fuss about it. You can pay for the game and get it when it comes out. It's not an investment, it's not a charity, it's simply paying in advanced and if you really feel like it throwing a little more in the pot for whatever reason you like.

I personally avoid this because I had a bad experience with a music project being delayed, the tiers being changed/reduced, etc. etc. etc. where I just don't trust buying into something this early into the process.

So DF doesn't want to risk money or a loan on a game - so they tell people if they want such a game they need to pony up from the jump. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you want a point and click adventure game by them then support this. If you don't or you abhor this type of business model then move on.
 
Cool idea but paying for a game before its done is not my thing unless it's at a great price or pay what you want.
 
[quote name='Spokker']
When Telltale pitched Back to the Future: The Game, they probably had to work hard to develop a viable plan for the title and then sink their own money into it, something Double Fine apparently doesn't want to do.
[/QUOTE]

When one is making an NBC Universal licensed game, you are not sinking your own money into it. I highly doubt that Telltale has any more money in the bank than Double Fine.
 
[quote name='justasplanned']Goddamn, lots of /v/irgins here, can't say I'm surprised
I'm looking at you Spokker and RollingSkull[/QUOTE]

Hmmmmmm.
 
[quote name='etcrane']The thought of this thread is nice .. but it doesn't really belong in the deals forum.[/QUOTE]

It's kind of hard to tell if it's a deal or not because there's no game to judge yet.
 
I like how the goal is already reached, I think it's a neat idea and am a fan of Double Fine's work so I look forward to seeing what this game is going to be like.
 
Aw, I was hoping this had to do with the whole Psychonauts 2/Minecraft creator article I read the other day... nothing more I'd want than a sequel to one of the best games last gen. Except maybe asequel to either one of their PSN/XBLA games, which both rocked.

Hope they stay away from a Brutal Legend 2 or another Monkey Island game, though. The former sucked, while the latter has seen its fair share of titles in the last few years.
 
[quote name='Drkr_Zen']Aw, I was hoping this had to do with the whole Psychonauts 2/Minecraft creator article I read the other day... nothing more I'd want than a sequel to one of the best games last gen. Except maybe asequel to either one of their PSN/XBLA games, which both rocked.

Hope they stay away from a Brutal Legend 2 or another Monkey Island game, though. The former sucked, while the latter has seen its fair share of titles in the last few years.[/QUOTE]

Opinion as fact, nice. Plenty of people enjoyed Brutal Legends, me included. If they were to make it it would please some. I don't know if enough to justify the development cost, but who knows?
 
Wow, these numbers are incredible. I wouldn't mind helping a few other promising developers stand ground in a market oversaturated by uninspired copycats.
 
I hope this is the way of the future, unfortunately it probably won't come in the form of CC games, Xbox DLC, or Nintendo thingamajigs.

I think things like this lean towards, "games as art" where the developers work directly with the public and shoo away the AAA game business infrastructure "too many fingers in the sugarbowl" bs. It's about time.

Hopefully Yu Suzuki starts a Shenmue 3 fund;http://youtu.be/Ar0KojxIvmQ
 
[quote name='Darknuke']wow 400k... I bet they have NO trouble making that lofty goal.[/QUOTE]
they have!! and they are over 500k already! i donated 30 bucks for now, when i get paid i will donate 100 more, this guys have gave me my best memories in gaming, monkey island, full throttle, day of the tentacle and grim fandango, less i could do is give a little gratitude back ;)
 
I've bought Telltale games on release, which are good but nowhere near what Tim has done with the genre in the past, so I couldn't think of a reason not to help him make another adventure game. Too many great memories from his games.
 
[quote name='dEvAnGeL']they have!! and they are over 500k already! i donated 30 bucks for now, when i get paid i will donate 100 more, this guys have gave me my best memories in gaming, monkey island, full throttle, day of the tentacle and grim fandango, less i could do is give a little gratitude back ;)[/QUOTE]

Didn't you do that when you bought the games in the first place?

Also, re: this part from the page:

" Secondly, since they’re only accountable to themselves, there’s an unprecedented opportunity to show the public what game development of this caliber looks like from the inside".

So, they aren't accountable to you guys who are funding it. That's nice.

Edit: Oh, and Costume Quest was awsome.
 
I see no problem with a game company using Kickstarter to fund a game that likely would never get made otherwise.

I'd donate some to Michel Ancel to speed up/get Beyond Good & Evil 2. There are plenty of games like BG&E, Psychonauts, etc. that were loved but not a financial success giving a company little reason to invest in a sequel. An avenue like this is a way around that roadblock.

I find it odd that some are so vehemently opposed to it. I'm sure we've all wasted $10-$20 on far worse things.
 
[quote name='radioactivez0r']Didn't you do that when you bought the games in the first place?[/quote]

Well, he gave money to LucasArts. Course, now that version of LucasArts is gone and Double Fine is trying to continue, and has been moderately successful for a small company.

Edit: Oh, and Costume Quest was awsome.

Costume Quest was OK. I think Stacking was better.
 
There are some real winners in this thread. The kind that put on their pants and then freak out because WHERE DID MY LEGS GO
 
This is going to blow past this mark.. I bet they hit $1,000,000 at least when al said and done..

The big question for me on that is .. do they then expand the game or expectations and delay it to a 2-3 year cycle?

I am hoping they dont go that route.. keep the original idea or two in mind and fund them both, if they had two one after another with this initial money.
 
[quote name='Spokker']If they tried to finance the game, they might actually have to develop a budget, project timeline and an overall business plan. They might even be asked what the game is about.[/QUOTE]
This is the most condescendingly ignorant thing I've read in a while. You might want to do some amount of superficial Googling and reading about Double Fine before making the most asinine of assertions with no actual knowledge with which to back them up.

If you had, you'd know that Double Fine was almost obliterated after Brutal Legend's poor retail performance, and they've been running a lean ship since. Ever wonder why their games are published by such a variety of companies? Because they have to do all the steps you said above for each game and pitch it fresh to every publisher they can to eventually, hopefully, land one. It's no wonder they'd get no takers for a niche genre when they have trouble getting successful games like Iron Brigade picked up. That's the point at which, if you really want it made, you turn to alternative funding means.

[quote name='Strell']There are some real winners in this thread. The kind that put on their pants and then freak out because WHERE DID MY LEGS GO[/QUOTE]
If I don't see legs, I'm going to assume they don't exist. Seems like rather a perfect metaphor for the above's reasoning regarding Double Fine's business planning capabilities.

[quote name='Spokker']I read the entire thing. A FAQ is not a business plan.

I also liked the line, "Crowd-sourced fundraising sites like Kickstarter have been an incredible boon to the independent development community." Double Fine isn't exactly an indie developer in the traditional sense. They make Kinect games for Christ's sake.[/QUOTE]
Wait, so indie developers can't create games for certain platforms or peripherals or they lose indie status? This is news to me.
 
[quote name='nightmare452']No offense, but I wouldn't give 2 cents for a point and click game.[/QUOTE]
Motherfucker I'M offended

Nah just kidding we're cool...

once you're dead!
 
[quote name='Spokker']I agree with you. Take out a loan to self-finance the game. If they truly believe in the project, then they will be willing to bet that people will go plunk down $15 for the game on Steam if point and click adventure games are in such high demand.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see a modern point and click adventure game, but this is the wrong way to go about doing it.[/QUOTE]

It's not wrong, it's genius.

It's the best pre-order scam of all time - for $15 you are promised a copy of a non-existent game. That we know almost nothing about. Distributed on Steam. The other tiers pile on more worthless junk for a cold hard cash premium.

This is everything great about America. Taking it to the people. Grass roots. Sucker born every minute. Marketing win of the year.
 
[quote name='camoor']It's not wrong, it's genius.

It's the best pre-order scam of all time - for $15 you are promised a copy of a non-existent game. That we know almost nothing about. Distributed on Steam. The other tiers pile on more worthless junk for a cold hard cash premium.

This is everything great about America. Taking it to the people. Grass roots. Sucker born every minute. Marketing win of the year.[/QUOTE]

Strell is right, there are some real winners here.

Double Fine has a track record, which anyone can look into. Tim Schafer has a track record for designing point-and-click adventure games. So, most of us know that he has the capabilities. Kickstarter is as much trying to sell people that you can do the project you suggest as it is getting funding.

Great scam? Nah. If he doesn't deliver, the lawsuits come out. If he delivers a poor product, it hurts him and his company's credibility.

Yes, we all take a risk here that the game might not be very good. Such is the risk of any venture capitalist. But, the upside is that we get something we wouldn't otherwise get, and some people have wanted for many years. Scam? Hardly.
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']Strell is right, there are some real winners here.

Double Fine has a track record, which anyone can look into. Tim Schafer has a track record for designing point-and-click adventure games. So, most of us know that he has the capabilities. Kickstarter is as much trying to sell people that you can do the project you suggest as it is getting funding.

Great scam? Nah. If he doesn't deliver, the lawsuits come out. If he delivers a poor product, it hurts him and his company's credibility.

Yes, we all take a risk here that the game might not be very good. Such is the risk of any venture capitalist. But, the upside is that we get something we wouldn't otherwise get, and some people have wanted for many years. Scam? Hardly.[/QUOTE]

I used scam liberally.

Legally everything seems to be above board and I don't think they are breaking any laws.

I just wanted to express my admiration of the marketing job that was done here. Getting folks to line up to invest in the project, take all the risks, and come back with nothing but a copy of the product, that's genius. Especially when each copy can be generated by the push of a button. Offering tiers where hundreds or thousands of dollars get you "prizes" like a doodle, a credit mention, or lunch with the head honcho - that's hilarious.

It reminds me of that story where Tom Sawyer gets all of the other kids to pay him to paint the fence. Like I said, marketing genius.
 
[quote name='camoor']I used scam liberally.

Legally everything seems to be above board and I don't think they are breaking any laws.

I just wanted to express my admiration of the marketing job that was done here. Getting folks to line up to invest in the project, take all the risks, and come back with nothing but a copy of the product, that's genius. Especially when each copy can be generated by the push of a button. Offering tiers where hundreds or thousands of dollars get you "prizes" like a doodle, a credit mention, or lunch with the head honcho - that's hilarious.

It reminds me of that story where Tom Sawyer gets all of the other kids to pay him to paint the fence. Like I said, marketing genius.[/QUOTE]
Not exactly genius either
They barely did anything, their history is what's carrying them right now

Now if some no name developer manages to pull this off with this kind of success, that would be the one that is worthy of being called genius
 
[quote name='camoor']I used scam liberally.[/quote]

Very liberally, IMO. In that it isn't anything like a scam.

I just wanted to express my admiration of the marketing job that was done here. Getting folks to line up to invest in the project, take all the risks, and come back with nothing but a copy of the product, that's genius. Especially when each copy can be generated by the push of a button. Offering tiers where hundreds or thousands of dollars get you "prizes" like a doodle, a credit mention, or lunch with the head honcho - that's hilarious.

As said above, it has nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with people wanting to support a project from someone who is a very known quantity. The average Kickstarter project usually requires a lot more work, like details about the project. It is very possible that we might get that detail before the Kickstarter ends.
 
[quote name='camoor']I just wanted to express my admiration of the marketing job that was done here. Getting folks to line up to invest in the project, take all the risks, and come back with nothing but a copy of the product, that's genius. Especially when each copy can be generated by the push of a button. Offering tiers where hundreds or thousands of dollars get you "prizes" like a doodle, a credit mention, or lunch with the head honcho - that's hilarious.

It reminds me of that story where Tom Sawyer gets all of the other kids to pay him to paint the fence. Like I said, marketing genius.[/QUOTE]
This makes absolutely no sense at all. What risks are people taking by putting money into the Kickstarter? This isn't an investment. People who kick in for this aren't doing so to take a risk on getting more money back. It's simply showing, upfront, the amount of demand a game has.

Really, how is this different than a season pass? In both cases, a non-refundable upfront investment is made for content you don't know about and that won't be released for months. The only difference between this and a preorder is that a preorder can, usually, be cancelled.

Also, I find your demeaning of the higher tier prizes as worthless pretty funny. Yes, anything of no value to you should be of no value to anyone. I'll remember to spend my money according to what you think is best.

But this is the gem in the rough of your post:
[quote name='camoor']Especially when each copy can be generated by the push of a button.[/QUOTE]
Someone better tell every DD service that they're "Scamming" people by generating their purchase with the push of a button. iTunes would be shocked, shocked.
 
[quote name='Spokker']Why not just make it, and then sell it, you know, like everything else?[/QUOTE]

Pretty much what I was going to say.

Must be nice to be able to make a game with no worries about recouping your losses by making the game good.

Yeah, I realize it'll probably be good if you're into the point and click thing but still, this seems backwards. I realize that creating games is getting more expensive, especially when looking at retail games, but there are also easier ways to distribute any sort of game. More retail options and many more digital options. One look at the Xbox Live Indie marketplace makes me wish that there were fewer games.
 
I'll be honest, I'd totally give more if it was to fund a Tim Schafer and Cookie Monster show. I Loved those Sesame Street: Once Upon a Monster videos they did on youtube.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Yeah, I realize it'll probably be good if you're into the point and click thing but still, this seems backwards. I realize that creating games is getting more expensive, especially when looking at retail games, but there are also easier ways to distribute any sort of game. More retail options and many more digital options. One look at the Xbox Live Indie marketplace makes me wish that there were fewer games.[/QUOTE]

I think a lot of it has to do with publishers not wanting to fund certain things because they don't believe they'll get a positive return on it. Double Fine a full (small) studio that is their full time job, so they can't exactly make it without any kind of funding unless they could live on no income for an extended amount of time or were doing it when they aren't making something else that is going through a publisher, which may not be a lot of time to do it.

Things go a lot better when you have money to allocate time to work together instead of being fragmented around trying to send shit all over the place and communicate whenever you're able to work on it.



Plus of course, there's no middle man this way and you don't have to worry about a publisher taking out a certain percentage. It goes more towards development and the studio and works out better for them, if this is a successful route.
 
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