HTPC Project - Somewhat new to building PC's, could use some direction.

MillerTime2523

MillerTime2523

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My parents bought a new computer on black friday, and I'm going to try and hook the old one up to my TV. I'm looking to do some gaming, and watch HD videos / movies. Heres the computer I'm working with:

System Specs

Basically..

3.0 GHz Processor
512 MB PC 3200 Ram
160 GB Sata Hard Drive
64 MB Integrated Graphics Card

Now, I know the basic stuff about computers. I have an old computer that I upgraded the RAM and DVD Drives on without problem, but outside of that, it might be a challenge.

So here are the questions that I'm hoping to get answered.

- My TV has both HDMI and VGA. Which to choose? I'm not sure how to get the HDMI to work on my computer though.
- Is This a good graphics card? Looking at the reviews, it looks solid, but is there anything better at the same relative cost?
- The DVD Drives I mentioned installing earlier - those are IDE, and I'd like to have them in the machine. Any way of going about this?
- Good Ram? Or should I go with some of the more expensive stuff? Not sure if it makes a difference.
- The processor should be decent, right?

Thats about all I can think of for now. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys!
 
There's a lot more we need to know in order to access what you have. What are you planning to do with this machine? Play DVDs/Media? Play Bluray? Record?

I would recommend more ram no matter what, 512mb might be a little low. If you plan on recording, you'll need a capture card and a larger hard drive in addition to the ram. Are you talking about VGA, or DVI? If its VGA vs. HDMI, you'll definitely see a better picture with HDMI.
 
Push most of those thoughts, about playing HD movies on that thing, out of your head. My old computer had that same processor and 2GB of RAM and it ate shit trying to played the 1080p trailer of I Am Legend.

1) HDMI/VGA would be a graphics card thing.
2) Are you sure you have a PCI-E port? I looked at that link and it only listed PCI ports.
3)
4) You may want to go with something like Corsair if you are going the cheap route http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145505
5) Shouldn't be horrible but don't expect the world out of it
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Push most of those thoughts, about playing HD movies on that thing, out of your head. My old computer had that same processor and 2GB of RAM and it ate shit trying to played the 1080p trailer of I Am Legend.[/quote]
Hm, in that case.. Maybe I should just stick to gaming with it. I was mostly going to play TV shows on it and save the HD movies for PS3/Blu-Ray, but now that you mention it maybe i'll just keep it as my main computer. I was mainly interested in playing Battlefield 2 on my TV, and the other perks would be nice, but eh. Is there a cheap/easy way to upgrade the processor? I wasn't hoping to spend a ton on it - maybe $100 each on the vid card, some more ram, and a new hard drive at the most.

Thanks for the input.

Also, not sure the difference on PCI and PCI-E, so good catch on that.

BlueLobstah - TV Shows and a little gaming would be my main use for the project. I have an HDTV but only 3 HD channels which come in very rarely, so I was hoping to get a little more use out of it in this way.
 
My soon to be old computer(as soon as my new one gets here) has:

P4 2.8GHz
FX 5500 128mb PCI
1gb ddr ram
500 GB HD

And it can't even play 720p videos without lag. WMV videos tend to play a little bit more smoothly but it still lags a lot and if you try to run anything else in the background it just lags out and the player stops responding. If the computer doesn't have a PCI-e slot(most likely not to have it), don't bother with HD, I doubt any AGP/PCI cards can play full 1080p. Maybe 720p...

Also the PCI-E bus is over 20 times(possibly even more) faster than standard PCI
 
You won't be able to upgrade your computer into a powerful machine. You can throw in 2 pieces of 1GB to make it 2GB of RAM total. You can also get this 8400GS which is the best PCI card you can buy, and since it has DVI output port you can get this cable to hook up your computer to your TV's HDMI port. As for DVD drive, you should be able to replace whatever you got with this DVD burner so you can burn and watch DVDs.

Gaming wise, you're pretty much out of luck. The 8400GS I linked above, though the best PCI card available, is very pathetic when it comes to handling newer games. You can probably run BF2 fine at lower resolutions and lower details, but don't get your hopes up on any newer game.

Your Pentium 4 CPU is obsolete by today's standard. I doubt it'll be able to play any hi-def video smoothly. I don't think you can upgrade to any C2D processor since the 915 chipset supports up to Pentium 4 line only.
 
[quote name='SOSTrooper']You won't be able to upgrade your computer into a powerful machine. You can throw in 2 pieces of 1GB to make it 2GB of RAM total. You can also get this 8400GS which is the best PCI card you can buy, and since it has DVI output port you can get this cable to hook up your computer to your TV's HDMI port. As for DVD drive, you should be able to replace whatever you got with this DVD burner so you can burn and which DVDs.

Gaming wise, you're pretty much out of luck. The 8400GS I linked above, though the best PCI card available, it very pathetic when it comes to handling newer games. You can probably run BF2 fine at lower resolutions and lower details, but don't get your hopes up on any newer game.

Your Pentium 4 CPU is obsolete by today's standard. I doubt it'll be able to play any hi-def video smoothly. I don't think you can upgrade to any C2D processor since the 915 chipset supports up to Pentium 4 line only.[/quote]

The GPU on that card is very likely to be able to handle HD video, but the strain of the PCI bus diminishes its performance by so much. My FX5500 is supposed to be faster than the integrated graphics I had, but due to it being on PCI I get less frames per second
 
Look at the 780G chipset from AMD/ATI, it includes integrated graphics with Hybrid Crossfire support, and you can find decent mobos for 70-80ish. Athlon X2s are pretty cheap, and in crossfire configuration, you should be able to handle 1080p.

I built a system around that chipset recently on a relative budget, to use as a fileserver/bitorrent machine, and it handles Fallout 3 pretty well at medium settings.

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200810.ars

There's a guide using that chipset, throw in some larger HDs and a decent tuner or two and you've got a DVR. You can probably reuse the case/supply from the old PC.
 
Great link. Thanks a ton for that. To build what they've got, it's essentially only $100 more than what I would have paid to upgrade the current computer, and seems to be a better option.

:edit: on second thought, I wouldn't be needing a hard drive, dvd burner, or case, so that cuts off $200 right there.
 
Here's what i'm thinking.

Motherboard - $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131324

Processor (not 100% on this) - $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115052

Graphics Card - $140
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...30384&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-14-130-384-_-Homepage

Then pull the HD from the old computer (I'll probably upgrade it later on), purchase ram and a power supply with christmas money, and I should be good to go. Hopefully I won't need a new case.
 
Well it looks like you have an AMD motherboard with an Intel processor, so that won't work. If you want to go incredibly cheap here is something similar to what I've built recently:

Athlon 64 X2 5200+ dual core processor for $63
Micro ATX Foxconn motherboard for $40
XFX 8600GT video card for $60
2 GB DDR2-800 Corsair RAM for $10

All of that should work with the current computer (except maybe the Micro ATX motherboard which might not work with your case) and will cost you less than $200. I'm not sure on the exact requirements of playing HD videos but on a slightly worse PC than that (same video card with an Athlon X2 4800+) I get ~60 frames per second on Call of Duty 4 and Team Fortress 2 at 1280x1024 resolution with near maximum settings. It should even work fine with your 300 watt power supply.

Otherwise if you still want to spend a few hundred more, you just need to find an LGA775 Intel motherboard instead of the one you have listed.
 
[quote name='MillerTime2523']Whats wrong with AMD/Intel?

:edit: is this what you were referring to?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182065[/QUOTE]
Two different architectures of processor and motherboard.


An AMD processor needs AMD board, Intel needs an Intel board. (not Intel brand mind you, as they do make their own motherboards)

Not to mention, the draw of that 780 AMD board was the fact that it had integrated graphics. If you're going to be getting a video card, no point in paying extra for it. Go for a cheaper board like what Foo suggested if you're going AMD.

As for the 8600, I currently have a 8800 GTS 320mb and have had problems playing HD resolution videos, frames being skipped during lots of action and such.

Playing Team Fortress 2 on max settings is a laughably easy task thanks to the awesome source engine and its super low requirements, and should not be considered a good indicator of performance. Foo says he plays it on a mix of medium and high settings at the 1280 resolution, which is exactly how I have my old Radeon 9600 pro box setup running ~40fps. I think your 9800gt choice is a solid one.

Butttttt....
and theres always a but.

For 20-30$ more, you could get the vastly superior radeon 4850HD.

----
Aha, looks like Tom's has released their best price/performance for December. Check it out, pick a card in a price range you like and you can't go wrong.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-graphics,2086.html
 
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Ahh, that makes sense.

This stuff is so confusing to me. Whats the difference between a Sapphire Radeon 4850 HD, and a ASUS one? I'm assuming nothing except for name brand, but in this case, how do I know which is better? Just go from the customer reviews?

Also, AMD or Intel? What do you guys suggest? Have any suggestions on a mobo / processor combo at the $200 range? I think $230 would be my absolute max.
 
Well..don't take offense, but I get the impression that you are not the type of person who delves into overclocking.

If I am correct in that assumption, AMD will be able to deliver you more for less. The boards and processors are both cheaper.

However, if you think you'd attempt overclocking, for 200$ you could get a lower/mid C2D + mobo and overclock it to be much faster than an AMD.
 
Brands are a matter of personal preference really. Some people choose one and stick with it because they don't have problems. Its less about performance and more about what the company offers.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131125
This Powercolor is the cheapest and Powercolor offers a two year warranty on their products.

An ASUS card will come with a software suite and includes things like SmartDoctor and their various performance/power saving options. Things you could do your self, but all nicely automated with the software.

VisionTek is the only brand that offers a lifetime warranty.

Those are the only 3 I have purchased from/know about.

If it were me, I'd just go with whatever was cheapest, which is the Powercolor.
 
Okay. Powercolor it is. Now just to find a good Proc/Mobo combo and I should be set for now.

:edit: Just what I was looking for. $202. Now, as for quality.. I'm going to need your help on that part, haha.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.144753
JetWay HA04-Extreme AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 89W Dual-Core Processor Model ADA6000CZBOX - Retail

Then graphics card:

POWERCOLOR AX4850 512MD3-DH Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16

Total Cost: $358 (Before mail in rebates / shipping)

Good machine? Or should I be looking to spend my money on other parts?

OR


ASUS P5Q SE PLUS LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 Wolfdale 2.66GHz 3MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Dual-Core Processor

Cost of these two is about the same. Which to choose?
 
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Well the Intel combo certainly. But thats quite a bit more than you wanted to spend is it not? If you end up getting that and the 4850, you basically have a very good gaming pc.

Don't lose sight of what your original goals are, its easy to get caught up in the tech.

If you can afford it though, that combo along with 4gb of ram, will power through pretty much anything except Crysis maxed @ 1600 res.

The question is, do you need all the power for what you want to do with it?
 
Nah, after rebates and stuff its only like $5 more than the original one - but even without rebates we're only looking at $20 more.

As for my original goals, they were to upgrade an old computer to play HD movies/videos, but since those got shut down pretty quickly, if I'm building a completely new computer, why not just get the best bang for my buck and go all out? If I'm going to build a new one, I don't want something that just barely meets the requirements to play the videos and stuff, not to mention becomes obsolete by next year. (Not saying that it would, but you get what I'm trying to say).

I think I can fit the bill for everything after christmas, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Couple more questions -

How would I get this to work on my tv again? Does that graphics card have HDMI?
Good power supply = ??? 600 watt?

Thanks a ton for the help guys. Greatly appreciated.
 
[quote name='MillerTime2523']
How would I get this to work on my tv again? Does that graphics card have HDMI?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. I'm not too sure on this one, but I think you just need an HDMI to HDMI cable or HDMI to.. whatever your TV uses. I've never owned an HDTV, so I'm clueless really, but I do know the card has at least 1 HDMI port.

[quote name='MillerTime2523']
Good power supply = ??? 600 watt?
[/QUOTE]
watts don't really mean all that much.

A couple options for you. If you want to figure it out for yourself and learn something, heres a couple links/info for you to look at.

LEARN SOMETHING:
To get yourself started in finding the right power supply, go here:
http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
And enter all your data. Use 15% capacitor aging. This will give you a wattage. I like to round up to the next level or two. (ie. my planned PC needs 430 watts, look at 450 or 500w psus)

So you will now know what general area to start looking in. Now comes the important part, the amps.

First, you'll need to look at the amps, and the amp requirements of the devices you are using and will be using in your box. 30+amps total for your 12v rail is a good goal to shoot for, be it divided into multiple rails or a fatty single rail. The smaller 3.3 and 5v rails don't really matter all that much.

To put this into practical application, lets take a look at an example.


This is the PSU I have:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817104037

If you click over to specifications, the main things you want to look at are the output, and the connectors.


Most PSU these days come in two forms concerning rails, multi-rail 12v and single rail 12v. Single rail is better, because there is no limitation on the amount of amps any given component can draw (apart from the max rating). Multi-rail PSUs have a limit of 20amps per rail, so if any component draws more than 20amps at a time, the PSU drops in efficiency. This does not mean multi-rail PSUs are bad, just less efficient sometimes. You can see that my PSU has 2 12v rails rated at 18amps each for a total of 36amps on the 12v. Not bad. Main purpose of the 12v rail is going to be to power your video card. You will need to look up the power requirements (in amps) for your video card to see if that 36amps is going to be enough to power it. So, for my 8800gts, I know (from searching online) that it needs 26amps minimum. I'm well within that area and have some power to spare if I want to give it a little more juice for overclocking or SLi. Also note, if for whatever reason you get into use x2 card in SLi or Xfire, the amp requirements do NOT double. Its a different requirement you'd have to look up.

So, you need to find a PSU in your wattage range, then look at the amp requirements of your video card. Generally, if you surpass your video card's rating, your other components will be fine.

Now, you also need to look at the connectors the PSU offers. Notice that my PSU only has 2 SATA connectors? That is pretty low by today's standards. I have a single hard drive and my CD/DVD burner plugged in, and that's all I get. Many people like to use multiple hard drives, so make sure you get as many as you need.

Make sure the PSU has a PCI-E connector because, obviously, that's what your video card needs.

This is an older tier list of some PSU's, mostly still accurate:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1596160&postcount=2

You want to choose one as high on the tier list as you can that meets your requirements while still balancing costs.

EASY MODE:
Get a Corsair PSU. They last ridiculously long (rated for 10 years running non-stop) they use a single rail with massive amp ratings, and come with everything you need and more.

They're pricey, but if you don't want to hassle with calculating everything out and finding a deal yourself, you can always turn to Corsair. Some people just like it easy like that and I don't blame them.
 
I posted this in a thread no one will ever look at awhile ago.

[quote name='crystalklear64']
...First, you'll need to look at the amps, and the amp requirements of the devices you are using and will be using in your box. 30+amps total for your 12v rail is a good goal to shoot for, be it divided into multiple rails or a fatty single rail. The smaller 3.3 and 5v rails don't really matter all that much.

Most PSU these days come in two forms concerning rails, multi-rail 12v and single rail 12v. Single rail is better, because there is no limitation on the amount of amps any given component can draw (apart from the max rating). Multi-rail PSUs have a limit of 20amps per rail, so if any component draws more than 20amps at a time, the PSU drops in efficiency. This does not mean multi-rail PSUs are bad, just less efficient sometimes. You can see that my PSU has 2 12v rails rated at 18amps each for a total of 36amps on the 12v. Not bad. Main purpose of the 12v rail is going to be to power your video card. You will need to look up the power requirements (in amps) for your video card to see if that 36amps is going to be enough to power it. So, for my 8800gts, I know (from searching online) that it needs 26amps minimum. I'm well within that area and have some power to spare if I want to give it a little more juice for overclocking or SLi. Also note, if for whatever reason you get into use x2 card in SLi or Xfire, the amp requirements do NOT double. Its a different requirement you'd have to look up.[/QUOTE]

Bascially, look at the combined amps of the 12v rail. Look up the amp requirement of your video card. Have more than enough? Super yay. Not enough? Boo.
 
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