i'd like to see an end to Paypal "surcharges" on CAG...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sounds pretty pointless to me. If you agree people can and will easily bypass it then why waste the time and effort?
 
[quote name='Strell']... Beyond that, you've done little to improve your original argument other than agreeing with the people who agree with you, and denouncing anyone who doesn't. Which is kind of like saying red is my favorite color, and then punching people who are wearing green shirts...

The best argument you've made so far is "oh noes I hates the big corporations and am sad to see the luv for them here," which isn't ironclad, and is just really more of an appeal to everyone's emotional (and typical) hatred of big organizations pushing everyone around.

I already said you had a pretty good point, but you ignored that, and now you're just going after anyone who doesn't agree. Pretty bad way to continue a discussion.[/quote]

i'm not complaining; i'm offering a suggestion to improve the site. this isn't a rant. and i'm not denouncing anyone who doesn't agree with my view. far from it -- i'm conceding the possibility that Paypal's policy isn't fair to everyone, but that's not really the point. and as for my "best argument", read what i posted carefully. i actually said the exact opposite; that some people are opposed to the suggestion based on the old "let's screw the evil corporation" argument. in this rare occasion, i'm actually supporting the "big corporations".

i'm not going after anyone who disagrees. if you're touchy about my little joke, i'm sorry. i was simply teasing you a bit for come on so thick with the sarcasm.
 
[quote name='Rocko']Sounds pretty pointless to me. If you agree people can and will easily bypass it then why waste the time and effort?[/quote]

because it's the right thing to do? why not? slap it in the rules, everyone pads their prices appropriately and no one has to claim a fee upfront... sounds simple enough to me.
 
I'm just saying this is one of those threads - and this happens a lot - where an OP comes in, says X, and then listens to only X, regardless of what is being said or discussed.

It's the exact same thing when someone says "Hey I think ____ is the greatest game ever" and only reinforces it. Or when they ask for advice about something, but the first post is "Well I'm going to do ___ anyway," and ignoring anything else.

Call me touchy if you want. I'm sure that makes you feel better.

And this is indeed a rant. It's been one for a while. Comparing this to pornography and piracy? Might as well Godwin Law it up while we're at it.
 
[quote name='allyourblood']because it's the right thing to do? why not? slap it in the rules, everyone pads their prices appropriately and no one has to claim a fee upfront... sounds simple enough to me.[/quote]

As I said, a waste of time, because it's going to affect absolutely nothing, and even you just agreed to that.

I feel like you didn't consider the fact that people can pad their prices to mask eBay fees, and now that it's apparent, you don't want to admit your fault.
 
[quote name='Rocko']
I feel like you didn't consider the fact that people can pad their prices to mask eBay fees, and now that it's apparent, you don't want to admit your fault.[/quote]

check earlier in the thread: Ebay recommends this process and i acknowledged that a while back. it was apparent to me before i started the thread. i find no fault in that.
 
[quote name='Strell']
Call me touchy if you want. I'm sure that makes you feel better.

And this is indeed a rant. It's been one for a while. Comparing this to pornography and piracy? Might as well Godwin Law it up while we're at it.[/quote]

so what i'm getting from you is the same thing you're accusing me of: only what you say is right, and anything i offer as an alternative is a rant. i'm merely making a suggestion! why can't i do that without everyone tearing it apart? don't you like having your voice heard without a dozen people attacking you for it? looking back through the replies i've received, i think i've been pretty civil in my remarks vs. a lot of snide and aggressive posts from others.

i appeal again to the mod team to simply pass this thread along to Cheapy (if he hasn't already checked it out) and hopefully he can let me know what he thinks. my intention was NEVER to make everyone angry. i just felt this was the best way to get my thoughts across to those who run the site.
 
You're not making me angry. Calm down.

And frankly, you ought to realize that any time you bring up a topic that could be deemed controversial (which isn't quite the correct word, but it's close enough, since it implies a lot of different angles and opinions can be taken on a subject), you're going to get snide remarks. Especially on the intermotrons.

If this comes to pass, know that every post in here I've made has cost me time, and since time is money, I'll be passing that cost onto anyone I trade with. I think I'm up to 5 posts or so now, so that's another 5 bucks per transaction. Plus one more to grow on.

Again - this is all pretty much semantics. Someone won't call it surcharge, they'll call it a handling fee. And if that term gets banned, there will be another. I'll call it a zongan fee, named after one of the many races in the Fardram colony in the Vizz galaxy.
 
[quote name='Strell']Again - this is all pretty much semantics. Someone won't call it surcharge, they'll call it a handling fee. And if that term gets banned, there will be another. I'll call it a zongan fee, named after one of the many races in the Fardram colony in the Vizz galaxy.[/QUOTE]

fucking dirty Zongan lover.
 
Ok, my take on raising the price arbitrarily to buffer the paypal prices is this - when I ask for the additional paypal fee, I ask for exactly their surcharge. Let's say it's a $10 item, the surcharge is 59 cents, the new total is $10.59. If I artificially bump it to $11, guess what? I'm gouging you!

Asking for the specific amount, I find to be a lot more honest than the artificial price jump.
 
[quote name='AkariK']Ok, my take on raising the price arbitrarily to buffer the paypal prices is this - when I ask for the additional paypal fee, I ask for exactly their surcharge. Let's say it's a $10 item, the surcharge is 59 cents, the new total is $10.59. If I artificially bump it to $11, guess what? I'm gouging you!

Asking for the specific amount, I find to be a lot more honest than the artificial price jump.[/quote]

i hear that, but couldn't you ask for $10.59? i know it's not an even number, but it's not like people are sending coins thru the mail... and if you did charge $11, i don't think people would think you're gouging them... after all, maybe your original price is $10.40 (or whatever). the nice part about the idea is that there would be no gouging, as the item's value is entirely up to you -- for all anyone knows, maybe you only wanted 11 bucks for it. most people do this anyway. personally, i always determine what i want for an item after all fees, taxes, shipping costs, gas, time, etc.... so when i ask $10 for an item, we're square -- i've received everything i expected to get from our transaction and don't have any need to add a fee on top of that.
 
Well... I do ask for 10.59 (plus shipping etc where that applies, but the final value is usually an odd looking decimal). But even then, this is going against your original idea, so.. shrug.
 
well all ill do is just add it to my shipping cost. :)
if you dont like a seller's policy then dont pay with paypal or simply dont shop in his TL. dont bitch about paying extra for fees. cant you just be glad that you are getting great deals here? why do you got to shit all over it?
 
I haven't read but the first post, but seriously, this is retarded. An easy way around that would be to just raise the price to cover the PayPal amount. The only way I can see the buyer not paying the charge is if he's not given any other pay option.
 
[quote name='allyourblood']i actually said the exact opposite; that some people are opposed to the suggestion based on the old "let's screw the evil corporation" argument. [/quote]

Please show me where anyone in this thread has said anything even remotely close to this.

No one has.

The closest has been a rhetorical question about why you aren't complaining about PayPal's obscene profits, which is hardly "screw the evil corporation".

in this rare occasion, i'm actually supporting the "big corporations".
Click to expand...

Yeah, no shit. At the expense of everyone else. Higher prices for everyone and only PayPal benefits. I can't understand why everyone isn't falling all over themselves to support this idea. :roll:

Welcome to Corporate Ass Gamer. Resistance is futile.
 
[quote name='allyourblood']why does anyone need more reason than that? it's their service and their policy, and they choose how they want it to be used. if you don't like it, your alternative isn't to do whatever you like, it's to NOT use the service! [/quote]

This isn't PayPal. This isn't eBay. What other people do with a contract that doesn't involve you isn't your concern.

Or is it?

I asked jokingly before. Now I'm not. Do you work for PayPal/eBay? Stockholder? Because I can't see any other compelling reason why someone would start and subsequently dominate a thread like this.

You're asking for a change in the rules. You're asking for moderators to enforce it. (That kind of implies some sort of punishment/consequence for infractions, and thank goodness we haven't gone there yet.) You're asking for higher prices for everyone, just because this is what PayPal wants.

On one level, this is a fairness argument. The same prices across the board would be fair in one sense. But it isn't fair to non-PayPal users, who would actually then either be gouged or be subsidizing PayPal users. So fairness cannot be a reason.

The other argument is that it's the rules. But it's PayPal's rules, and that is between PayPal and its users. Not you.

Personally, I find the whole idea of this website adding rules for the sole benefit of corporations to be disturbing and repellant. I find the idea of increasing prices for everyone because that's what a corporation wants to be even more disturbing. As usual, it's the people who have the least means and money -- those without PayPal -- who end up getting screwed the most.

I could understand this if there was some tangible benefit, but there isn't...except for PayPal. We don't get any stickers for complying with their TOS. I can't honestly believe anyone thinks that PayPal auditors are going to start monitoring CAG tradelists.

In light of all that, I don't see why there needs to be a new rule for this. It is the non-solution to a non-problem.

it shouldn't be acceptable to flagrantly ignore this portion of one's TOS on this forum. it looks bad and shouldn't be allowed to continue. not because i say so, not because you don't like it, but "Because PayPal says so."
Click to expand...

THIS ISN'T PAYPAL.

CAG isn't PayPal. CAG should not be in the business of enforcing agreements to which it is not a party. CAG is not a TOS policeman, and should not start down the road of being responsible for the rules of other websites, companies, or corporations. Where does it start? Where does it end? The moderators have better things to do.

I wonder what other rules PayPal would like us to have here. Until they start subsidizing Cheap Ass Gamer, I don't care.

Welcome to Corporate Ass Gamer. We're watching you.

And, just to make sure that this is absolutely clear: this post is not "screw the evil corporation". The thing I am advocating is not screwing everyone else for the sole benefit of PayPal. If you can't see the difference, please go back to corporate cheerleading school.
 
Some of you seem to have a real problem with this. Paypal is easier than money orders for both the seller and buyer, driving somewhere whenever you want to send or receive money isn't convenient. On highdefdigest they enforce this rule, http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?t=50790

Does that mean that highdefdigest is run by a paypal employee? No. The majority of money sent by people on cag is sent through paypal so maybe sellers shouldn't expect people to pay extra to use the most accepted form of payment on here. Paypal can also help with scammers since you can find out if a seller is verified, has a confirmed address and stuff like that.
 
[quote name='botticus']

If I'm doing an advertised sale, I don't incorporate PayPal fees. But if someone asks me to pick up a game for them or something along those lines, I don't plan on losing money on the exchange. And in the end, PayPal protects both parties as well as providing the convenience.[/QUOTE]

THIS!

OP, this is the point that tosses all your arguments out the window. Most of my dealings on CAG have been picking up things and sending them at cost (and likewise getting a few things that way in exchange). This is expected on CAG. Most people throw a fit when someone charges more than a few $$ over the cost and expect that to cover packaging/shipping/PayPal fees/gas/whatever. So, in general, I add $5 to the cost and say it covers all of those things. If it wasn't for PayPal that might be $3 or $4, but that's just the way it is. I don't specifically say to add 3% because of PayPal, but it's in there. In any case, it isn't fair for me to shoulder the cost or even split it if I'm doing someone a favor. I'd simply stop picking things up for other people (and presumably others would as well) and that would be WAY worse for the community than enforcing a rule of no 3% surcharges or whatever.

All those PayPal ToS things are meant to be with respect to eBay sales and the like - on there it is forbidden to add more for PayPal payments because they don't want people using other forms of payment. It isn't to protect buyers in any way :lol:. I don't think they apply to person-to-person dealings and in that case the person selling can ask for any amount of money for any reason - and the buyer has the right to refuse said offer.

So, no, if I had anything to say about it I would not implement such a policy here at CAG.

(Edit - Sorry, hadn't read the rest of the responses after Botticus's - many other people said pretty much the same thing and I didnt mean to pile on, OP ;)).
 
Your all nuts. Paypal charges a certain amount to use there service. Every 4 cents is a charge no matter which way around. Is it more cheaper then writing out a money order to somebody and mailing it out?

That is like 1.35 cents and sometime one dollar per ever 100 dollar's. Then the worst thing is Money Gram/Western Union which charges like ten dollars just to send.
 
im tired of people crying about people passing on charges or Charging too much for shipping

Dont like it Dont buy it. noone is forcing you to buy these items

also i missed why they shut down the amazon prime thing.. why did they stop it.... Just when i thought about doing a group they list disapears LOL

OP im not calling you out personally im talking about everyone who complains about fees
 
[quote name='slidecage']im tired of people crying about people passing on charges or Charging too much for shipping

Dont like it Dont buy it. noone is forcing you to buy these items

also i missed why they shut down the amazon prime thing.. why did they stop it.... Just when i thought about doing a group they list disapears LOL

OP im not calling you out personally im talking about everyone who complains about fees[/quote]

Because Cheapy felt it violated Amazon's ToS for the Amazon Prime service.
 
[quote name='mguiddy']Because Cheapy felt it violated Amazon's ToS for the Amazon Prime service.[/QUOTE]

That's a shame, because it definitely benefited CAG users.
 
[quote name='eastx']That's a shame, because it definitely benefited CAG users.[/quote]And it was a violation of Amazon Prime TOS, which I stated numerous times in the thread. I'm sorry it wasn't shut down when it started. I'm also sorry no one lost their Prime account because of it, as that would have stopped it earlier.

CheapyD gets a lot of affiliate money from Amazon, and I think it's his best cut on any of the affiliate money, from what I remember talking to him a little while ago. Every bit of that helps CAG stay free and not put Cheapy in the poor house to keep it running. He could easily have lost his affiliate money for what happened with the Amazon Prime situation, even if it drove more money to Amazon and more money to Cheapy via affiliate money.

It's stated very clearly in the TOS, and no one seemed to care.
 
Well, you know most people don't read TOS stuff. But of course we wouldn't want CAG losing its Amazon affiliate status either.
 
[quote name='allyourblood']because it's the right thing to do? why not? slap it in the rules, everyone pads their prices appropriately and no one has to claim a fee upfront... sounds simple enough to me.[/QUOTE]

Ignorance is bliss, eh?

Idiot.
 
I understand your complaint but I believe this is an issue between the seller, buyer, and PayPal. There is no way we can be expected to enforce PayPal's incredibly lengthy and complex User Agreement. This is an agreement between a PayPal user and PayPal, and I don't see why CAG should be involved. If you choose to violate PayPal's User Agreement, you put your PayPal account in jeopardy.

As a courtesy to our traders, I will add this warning to our trading rules, but I do not believe this is something that we need to (or can effectively) be enforcing.

Regarding the Amazon Prime issue, I made a decision that I did not want to have CAG involved in facilitating the sharing of accounts, a practice that clearly violated their TOS. This was clearly a shady practice and it was very easy to put at end to it. Not only does CAG rely upon Amazon's affiliate revenue, but I've got a lot of respect for their business. In addition, their video game department has been doing an outstanding job and keeping that thread open seemed like a really shitty thing to do. It seems unlikely that any negative ramifications would have come down on myself or CAG, but it was a personal decision and I continue to stand by it.

I think the discussion on this topic has been exhausted. If you want to follow up on it, please send me a PM.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
bread's done
Back
Top