Is Nintendo even part of the next-gen?

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Comment: Nintendo's Revolution steps out of the next-gen battle Illustration

Information leaked about the specification of Nintendo's Revolution console has confirmed that the company's approach is radically different to its rivals' - so much so that it's hard to characterise it as part of the next-gen race at all, argues Rob Fahey.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=13579

I thought the article a good read and a good take on the 3 companies' positions for the next gen.
 
I thought it was already crystal clear that Nintendo is not aiming to compete with PS3 or the 360, that they're going to do their own thing.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']It's the only one that's truly next-gen.[/QUOTE]

QFT biatch! MS and Sony are giving us more of the same - booooorrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnngggg (I'll still buy them though :D ) - Bring on the Revolution!!!!!!
 
Is that article sarcastic or serious? How deep in the cheek is the tongue? Do a majority of gamers realize how hypocritical sony is when it blasts its opponents for having less powerful systems when the ps2 is the least powerful console out and has soundly trounced the competition?

Resident Evil 4 looks great on the cube, and it still holds up on the PS2. The petty name calling and chest-thumping is just so childish. If Nintendo fails, it will not be due to less "power" but it unfortunately could be due to labelling by the competition.
 
[quote name='javeryh']QFT biatch! MS and Sony are giving us more of the same - booooorrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnngggg (I'll still buy them though :D ) - Bring on the Revolution!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Goddamn if this isn't the truth. I'm so sick of the same old shit.
 
This paragraph from the article sums everything up nicely.

[quote name='Article']Is Nintendo mad? That depends on whether you consider it insane for a company to launch a product with low manufacturing costs, easy software development, high margins and strong brands and franchises backing it, at a price significantly lower than its rivals can compete with. If that's considered to be mad, then how do you describe the business of launching a vastly expensive, cutting-edge box, after the investment of billions of dollars in research and development and developer acquisitions, each hardware unit subsidised to the hilt in the hope of clawing back your investment on future software licences? In our insane industry, Nintendo may even be a pillar of sanity.[/QUOTE]

Good read - nothing really new but some more food for thought. And my apetite is far from satiated. :)

On a whim, I wonder how funny it would be if Next-Gen M$ and Sony pull a Revolution and actually cut back on their system specs to lower than their next gen offerings. 'Course, they'd need to think of a unique new catch besides graphics and neither of them are known for high levels of creativity.

Copying, yes.

Originality, no.
 
Someone recently reminded me of the gamecube pre-launch. Anyone here follow that. Gamecube was supposed to be a minor update to the N64 and vastly inferior to the Playstation 2. People quoted numbers and such then too, remember don't underestimate Nintendo. If Nintendo has a problem it's with the people who run and operate the marketing of the company. Because they've classically always brought the best tech to each generation.
 
e3_02_18.jpg
 
[quote name='Ecofreak']Looks like a pic from MP 1, no?[/QUOTE]
that looks like x360 quality. Just to give you an idea, here is a screenshot from metroid prime 2

metroid-prime-2-echoes-20040820091859236.jpg
 
The more and more I read these posts the more I realize I really don't give a crap about the next-gen in general. Most of the HD, Ram, and Processor talk is mostly lost on me. Why? Every single time there is a new generation we get the how great the system will be and how it can do this and do that speech. It's seriously getting old. We all know that only certain rantings will be delivered in the end.

Graphics are quickly becoming a thing of the past. I really don't need to see the sweat bead up on some guys forehead to enjoy a game. Yes shiny graphics are a selling point and it is somewhat exciting to see what the next-gen can offer in terms of visuals but its really not the whole package.

We know that each system will have their top tier games such as Halo, Zelda, and Metal Gear. In the end it comes down to what you want to play.

I still don't understand why we have soooo much talk about how un-powerful the Revolution will be when NINTENDO themselves said yeah its not going to be as powerful as the other systems.
 
[quote name='vherub']Is that article sarcastic or serious? How deep in the cheek is the tongue? Do a majority of gamers realize how hypocritical sony is when it blasts its opponents for having less powerful systems when the ps2 is the least powerful console out and has soundly trounced the competition?[/QUOTE]
Microsoft started it, Sony's just rubbing their more powerfulness in their faces. That, and the fact that some people still believe 360 is more powerful.
 
eck metroid prime games were a trainwreck. And like gamecube the only game to look forward to for the rev would be smash bros. But would the rev controller really make smash bros more fun? I doubt it....

Nintendo is content on being 3rd, but whether they like it or not generation moves and so does the industry so they are in competition for marketshare. Fanboys don't determine the market, sales do. There has already been the study that shows that hardcore fanboys don't move the market, the casual gamer does.

And that metroid prime 2 screenshot looks strictly Gamecube. There is nothing there that previous gen hasnt done with RE4 or Colossus. You have none of the next gen effects present.

if you need a reference

930863_20051213_screen002.jpg

928234_20050915_screen002.jpg
 
[quote name='Zoglog']There has already been the study that shows that hardcore fanboys don't move the market, the casual gamer does.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for proving Nintendo's point - they aren't going for hardware that appeals to the hardcore gamer that wants cutting edge graphics at a high cost. They've got their sights on the casual gamer who quit gaming because of growing stagnation in terms of gameplay by offering a new way to interact with games. They're also offering at a price point far lower than the competition, which will undoubtably be more attractive to the casual gamer.

Thank you, Zoglog, thank you very much for your insightful comment.
 
[quote name='Zoglog'] But would the rev controller really make smash bros more fun? I doubt it....[/QUOTE]
*Waits for fanboy to point out you can use a Gamecube control or better yet an "attachment"* :puke:
 
[quote name='zewone']*Waits for fanboy to point out you can use a Gamecube control or better yet an "attachment"* :puke:[/QUOTE]

The main focus of the "revolution" is on the controller so therefore the whole "next-gen" appeal the fanboys love to show off is moot.

Casual Gamers aren't appealed by nintendo Franchises as clearly shown in this generation. They are appealed to Sports games like Madden and FPS' like Halo or open ended games like GTA. All areas where Nintendo will lack in. There is a decent hope for Them to make a decent FPS with the controller but time will tell with that. As long as they don't make it crappy and mediocre like metroid prime.

As far as the odds go, It's highly doubtful Nintendo will take first nor do I believe they even want to. Which is fine, they have found thier niche market and intend to attack it. Thier causal gamer appeal is a joke.
 
[quote name='Zoglog']eck metroid prime games were a trainwreck. And like gamecube the only game to look forward to for the rev would be smash bros. But would the rev controller really make smash bros more fun? I doubt it....

Nintendo is content on being 3rd, but whether they like it or not generation moves and so does the industry so they are in competition for marketshare. Fanboys don't determine the market, sales do. There has already been the study that shows that hardcore fanboys don't move the market, the casual gamer does.

And that metroid prime 2 screenshot looks strictly Gamecube. There is nothing there that previous gen hasnt done with RE4 or Colossus. You have none of the next gen effects present.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, what exactly is your point? That Nintendo is on the right path getting causal gamers and non-gamers to get their system? Or that next-gen games look a little better than current gen?
 
[quote name='AdamInPlaidum']Goddamn if this isn't the truth. I'm so sick of the same old shit.[/QUOTE]
The same old shit will never go away and it shouldn't have to. Just look at the DS. It offers up an exciting new way to play games but yet at the same time allows you to access to a more traditional way as well with GBA b/c, and I wouldn't have it any other way. What Nintendo needs to do is find away to incorporate the best of the old and the new into one console without comprimising either, just like on the DS, and I think they're on their way to achieving this with the virtual console aspect of the Revolution.
 
the sad thing is that people refer to the term "next-gen" as alwasy being more powerful or more horsepower... It's kinda sad really, but I think everyone here does it.

IMHO I think sblymnlcrymnl put it best: "It's the only one that's truly next-gen."

... but even then I think it's the only one that's post-next-gen... as in being ahead of next gen. Really graphics won't mean crap in the next few years. So the only other thing that will atract the mass populous by then will be plane and simple: gameplay (or AI, but almost the same thing). So nintendo is already ahead of the game with the Rev.
 
[quote name='dcfox']The same old shit will never go away and it shouldn't have to. Just look at the DS. It offers up an exciting new way to play games but yet at the same time allows you to access to a more traditional way as well with GBA b/c, and I wouldn't have it any other way. What Nintendo needs to do is find away to incorporate the best of the old and the new into one console without comprimising either, just like on the DS, and I think they're on their way to achieving this with the virtual console aspect of the Revolution.[/QUOTE]

Bingo! Look at Nintendogs and Mario Kart. Both amazing games in their own right. One appeals to this "non-gamer" group, while the other is a fantastically done addition to a stellar franchise (and the best game I played this year, no question). They know what works in classic gaming--the new Super Mario Bros. will hit the DS next year and I'm sure will be fantastic (with the care Nintendo gave to Mario Kart, I can't wait to see what their flag-ship title back in it's 2D roots form will be like!). The key is knowing when to innovate and when to stick with what works.

The industry is on it's way to an early-80s type crash of stale, expensive games. Nintendo is seeking to head that off at the pass (rather than having to break through the mess like they did with the NES). Was everything from the Atari age thrown out the window? Nope! But where things needed to be changed and could be changed they were, and almost entirely for the better.
 
[quote name='Zoglog']
And that metroid prime 2 screenshot looks strictly Gamecube.
[/QUOTE]
probably because metroid prime 2 IS a gamcube game....
 
Sounds like Chrysler saying "Were not part of the big 3, it's the big 2". Ford and GM are loosing money on auto sales, just like MS and Sony are loosing money on video game sales. Nintendo and Chrysler have smaller sales numbers than their competitors, but bigger profits.
 
[quote name='Metal Boss']if it plays duke nukem forever count me in[/QUOTE]

Oh, that's a launch title. Along with Prey and Daikatana 2: The Suckening.
 
[quote name='62t']probably because metroid prime 2 IS a gamcube game....[/QUOTE]

duh, that was the point, they were trying to make it something it wasn't
 
I'm not following this thread that well.

Remember that casual gamers listen to the average trend of what magazines and fanboys say. So what they think and do is important.

And stop it with the fanboyisms. All three aren't going to throw in the towel. Sega's problem was they released to many failed systems to everyone didn't trust the dreamcast. I know I didn't buy one until the month it was announced by Sega they were through. I love my X-box and Playstation. But when I think of memorable moments and favorite games I find myself thinking about the gamecube.

Anyway, don't cry for Nintendo. All 10 of the top ten selling games ever are theirs. I don't think anyone will top Super Mario Bros 40+ million selling total. Plus they always make money, and have 9+ billion in the bank.
 
Nintendo is shooting for people that don't have or want to spend $400 to buy a console in its first year of release. If the casual gamer wants to spend that much money on a system just for Madden with better graphics and a create a hot dog mode then that's their problem. I just hope that enough people will force the industry as a whole to go towards innovation and away from perpetuation of the current games. Until then, you can't fault Microsoft or Sony or EA or anyone else for putting out the same game as long as the sales are high. Stupid casual gamers...
 
The real problem I see as pointed out in the article is the lack of congruity with multi-platform titles released on the PS3 and X360. Let's say the Next Resident Evil 10 releases for PS3 and X360 - will a port even be attempted for the Revolution if it has to be dumbed down?

The gamecube already suffers from it's lower marketshare of installed users as being an aversion for developers to make games for it. This may only further alienate the Nintendo platform to niche games and 1st party releases. While this may be a good thing to differentiate it from Sony and M$, it could backfire if they are as slow to release 1st party titles as they have been with the Cube. How many more times are they going to be able to sell new versions of Mario Cart, , Mario shuffleboard, and Mario hockey on a console that won't even be upgraded to HD resolution?

I applaud them for branching out and trying something new, but there's too many dollars chasing sequels and franchises that are never going to see the light of day on the Revolution. Cube gamers are starved for attention and another plan to trickle out mediocre games with mario pasted into them may not work for this "next-gen" even with a new way to make Mario jump.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']The real problem I see as pointed out in the article is the lack of congruity with multi-platform titles released on the PS3 and X360. Let's say the Next Resident Evil 10 releases for PS3 and X360 - will a port even be attempted for the Revolution if it has to be dumbed down?
[/QUOTE]

That part of the article is in direct conflict w/ that Reggie said about the ease of porting next gen games to the Revolution.

I believe the author wrote that out of his own opinion, not interviews or facts.

It's up to you who you believe in this instance.
 
[quote name='Jerichoedge']Anybody who calls a Metroid Prime game a "trainwreck" doesn't deserve to post his thoughts.[/QUOTE]

I kind of agree with this - Metroid Prime is a masterpiece.
 
[quote name='furyka'] create a hot dog mode [/QUOTE]

That is AWESOME! Why hasn't someone invented a create-a-hot-dog game yet? Brilliant!

THAT would be innovation!
 
[quote name='62t']
e3_02_18.jpg
[/QUOTE]


That is a picture of one of the early Metroid Prime trailers.

On topic, I am doubting how sucessful the Rev will be in the US. I want Nintendo to do well, but I am not sure that they will. I don't want a bunch on "non-games" on the Rev. I want games with depth to them. The Revolution controller is unique, but I am not quite sure how developers will use it in games. There are many questions still around the Rev...I hope it doesn't turn into the next VB.

Although many were saying the DS would turn into the next VB, I knew that it would be sucessful. As for the Rev, I am not quite sure. I think this type of innovation is accepted more for portable systems then consoles, but we will have to wait and see.
 
[quote name='ananag112']That is a picture of one of the early Metroid Prime trailers.

On topic, I am doubting how sucessful the Rev will be in the US. I want Nintendo to do well, but I am not sure that they will. I don't want a bunch on "non-games" on the Rev. I want games with depth to them. The Revolution controller is unique, but I am not quite sure how developers will use it in games. There are many questions still around the Rev...I hope it doesn't turn into the next VB.

Although many were saying the DS would turn into the next VB, I knew that it would be sucessful. As for the Rev, I am not quite sure. I think this type of innovation is accepted more for portable systems then consoles, but we will have to wait and see.[/QUOTE]

That's just it, though. There's not been this kind of innovation for home consoles ever. But Nintendo's other innovations (d-pad, analog stick, rumble, etc.) weren't exactly flops. So, based on that and more so on the DS I'm pretty sure Nintendo's going to make this work. Only time will tell.
 
The one advantage the Revolution does have though is price. There are enough casual gamers out there that would buy a Revolution just for Smash Brothers, a new Zelda, and the Nintendo back catalogue at 100 or even 150 that wouldn't touch it at 300 or 400. I like the idea of the system being so cheap that rather then having a PS3, Xbox 360, or Revolution people will think of the Revolution as their secondary system the same way practically everyone had a Game Boy or a GBA. It's an interesting approach to the market that hopefully will succeed.
 
[quote name='Zoglog']
Nintendo is content on being 3rd, buhttp://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/private.php?t whether they like it or not generation moves and so does the industry so they are in competition for marketshare. Fanboys don't determine the market, sales do.
[/QUOTE]

Neither Market Share nor Sales determine Profit. Ask Microsoft. For Counterexample, ask Apple...or Nintendo.

Furthermore, I dont think they PLAN on being 3rd. They know its a possibility alright. They know because they are taking a chance.

Tell me, would it be more benificial to Nintendo to just give it up and release another dual shock looking thing with more power. I know Ruined thinks so, but that makes no sense to me. Nintendo doesnt win by being Sony or MS lite, just the same as Democrats shouldnt be Republican lite.
 
Regardless of how things turn it, the Revolution is getting A LOT of air time on the boards. Which is interesting when we consider how little we actually know about the system compared to the 360 (which is already out) and the PS3 (which is supposedly still on track for a Spring launch.)

Big N is doing a good job keeping the Revolution on the forefront of the informer gamer's mind, and coming out with a large amount of positive press at that.
 
A lot of sites have continusly said they get the most hits on things that concern the revolution. And the only problen Revolution could have is 3'd party support. And if there willing to back microsoft even though there were no chances of them taking first in Japan, then they'll back Nintendo. In fact if you follow the praise they got easily twice the support for revolution for 3'd party already then the Gamecubes gotten in it's life cycle.

N64 did marginally worse then playstation. It was neck and neck and RPG's decieded it. Cube floundered because of lack of lots of 3'd party support and not that many first party games. I think both of those will be fixed on revolution. And as long as every one keeps talking about it like they are I think Nintendo will make a comeback in sales.

And if not, who cares. At some point next or after next gen for handhelds I see them being on equal footing with Consoles. And then I'll likely play little or not at all on them. And no ones going to take Nintendo's handheld position away for the foreseeable future.
 
[quote name='j.elles']N64 did marginally worse then playstation. It was neck and neck and RPG's decieded it. Cube floundered because of lack of lots of 3'd party support and not that many first party games. I think both of those will be fixed on revolution. And as long as every one keeps talking about it like they are I think Nintendo will make a comeback in sales. [/QUOTE]

I thought the N64 didn't do nearly as well as the Playstation.

But I agree w/ you on the 3rd party support being a deciding factor. The points you bring up are valid, and if the Revolution sells well enough, I see no reason why game producers wouldn't find a way to create ports.
 
I always find ports/multiplatform to be crappy unless they geniunely were developed separately and simultaneously for their respective systems. A lot of Gamecube ports were pretty crappy compared to even the PS2 version, because of how they went about it (I believe one of the Balder's Gates games is an example). I very rarely ever give a damn about the multiplatform games. If you wanna sound like a crazy person, mention that you heard something about the Gamecube GAINING something that was once either a PS2 or XBOX exclusive. I would say screw the multiplatform all together, but thats not how business works. I dont know if people are going to be willing to buy Revolution over 360 and Live when it comes to the same titles.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']I dont know if people are going to be willing to buy Revolution over 360 and Live when it comes to the same titles.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps not, but if you have a Revolution in the first place it may reduce your inclination to buy a 360 or PS3.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart'] I dont know if people are going to be willing to buy Revolution over 360 and Live when it comes to the same titles.[/QUOTE]

Maybe a $20 difference in software price would swing that choice.
 
[quote name='j.elles']A lot of sites have continusly said they get the most hits on things that concern the revolution. And the only problen Revolution could have is 3'd party support. And if there willing to back microsoft even though there were no chances of them taking first in Japan, then they'll back Nintendo. In fact if you follow the praise they got easily twice the support for revolution for 3'd party already then the Gamecubes gotten in it's life cycle.

N64 did marginally worse then playstation. It was neck and neck and RPG's decieded it. Cube floundered because of lack of lots of 3'd party support and not that many first party games. I think both of those will be fixed on revolution. And as long as every one keeps talking about it like they are I think Nintendo will make a comeback in sales.

And if not, who cares. At some point next or after next gen for handhelds I see them being on equal footing with Consoles. And then I'll likely play little or not at all on them. And no ones going to take Nintendo's handheld position away for the foreseeable future.[/QUOTE]

As far as 3rd party support is concerned, with what it costs to get a game out on 360 (and it will be even worse on PS3), the choices for smaller developers are either going to be creating Xbox Live Arcade games, or Revolution. One of my favorite games this year was Alien Hominid, and I highly doubt Behemoth has the cash to gamble on a full-blown 360 game.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl']It's the only one that's truly next-gen.[/QUOTE]

+1 for Sub!

I agree. So far I see only Nintendo taking a step forward from current gaming "status" other than the media format (Blu-Ray, etc.). It's Nintendo that is doing something new, which is why their system is undoubtebly the one I'd like to hear most about. And at such a low price? How could anyone in their right mind pass this up?
 
[quote name='AdamInPlaidum']As far as 3rd party support is concerned, with what it costs to get a game out on 360 (and it will be even worse on PS3), the choices for smaller developers are either going to be creating Xbox Live Arcade games, or Revolution. One of my favorite games this year was Alien Hominid, and I highly doubt Behemoth has the cash to gamble on a full-blown 360 game.[/QUOTE]

It'd be awesome if Nintendo could do a direct-download feature like Arcade or Stream, thereby cutting out the middle party and meaning more profits for the developers.

'Course, that would most likely require the usage of a hard drive, which I'm not sure Nintendo is supporting.
 
[quote name='Ecofreak']It'd be awesome if Nintendo could do a direct-download feature like Arcade or Stream, thereby cutting out the middle party and meaning more profits for the developers.

'Course, that would most likely require the usage of a hard drive, which I'm not sure Nintendo is supporting.[/QUOTE]

The SD slot could be used for something like this. By the end of 2006, a 2GB card could be moderately cheap.
 
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