Is Sexualization in Video Games, Subjective or is it always there?

[Reno Takamiya]

So, on the other forums I visit that have a forum for discussing Video Games had a topic that said that the game Torchlight is Sexist from a person called Darkly9.

That discussion led onto others idea of what Sexualization is.

The quotes I'm going to post are not from Darkly9 they're from another user, entirely. And the quotes after the first three quotes that follow are also from three others users refuting his stance.

Quote #1

I'm pretty sure nudity and near-nudity is sexualized in practically every culture.
But of course, because of who you are I'm wasting my time.

Quote #2

So if someone isn't posing, they're not being sexualized?
Please.
What do you think is the reason for people wearing bikinis? You can swim just fine in modest clothing. I'm not talking jeans, anything is more modest than a bikini. People wear them to show off their bodies. Women wear them to look hot. I.e., sexualizing themselves to others, i.e., to display themselves in a prurient manner in a public setting. If you don't agree with that, then you can't be helped. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, everyone wants to be admired. I'm also not posting to rage about some game being sexist.

But lol, if you actually think that most guys at the beach aren't there to stare at hot chicks in bikinis, and you actually think that women wear bikinis because they're "comfortable" or some other crap excuse... I just don't know what to say, other than... Lol. Okay.

Quote #3

We're not talking about aliens.
W'e're not talking about combing hair.
Very few people will be turned on by a hot woman combing her hair. Nearly everyone who is attracted to women will be turned on by an attractive woman wearing a bikini. The weird exceptions don't mean that these are equally subjective; they really, really aren't.
We're talking about very near nudity, which again, is sexualized by every society. It's NUDITY.
What you're saying is that sexualization is subjective, but by your point, nothing is sexualized. Just because anything can be interpreted as sexual doesn't mean that flat out nudity or near-nudity isn't sexual. It is, and no neckbearded anthropology professor is going to change that.

Let me break this down for everyone here.
People fantasize about naked people.
This happens everywhere, with only the most sexually obscure exceptions existing. And these exceptions aren't entire societies, they're just weird people who aren't into naked people.

People fantasize about naked people. The purpose of bikinis is to show as much skin as possible without revealing genitalia, i.e., being as close to naked as possible. Thus, the reason people wear bikinis is to sexualize themselves.

End result: Yes. Bikinis are sexualized clothing.

This is what someone said to him before he quoted back.

Quote #3

I think the problem here is that sexualization is subjective.

If aliens, who had no attraction to the human race at all, visited Oceanside, the fact that they apparently wear less clothing (or none) wouldn't be sexualized at all for the extra terrestrial visitors.

Something is only sexualized if it's being perceived as or intending to be sexual, and that's mostly because people will react differently to the same thing. A girl combing her hair might be sexualized by the guy who finds that kind of act sexual. You never know.

So saying nudity == sexualization is a fallacy, as it would be for the guy in the previous example to say that combing hair == sexualization.

Past reply to, Quote #2

Nudity =/= sexuality. If you knew dick about sexuality, you would know that. People in pornos don't just stand there in attention when they're being modeled, they are usually in poses.

Past, reply to Quote #1

Except no it doesn't. What's sexualized in one culture, in another it's not sexualized.

In closing, how do you view sexualization in Video Games? Is it subjective or is already there? Like if I had to come up with an idea of a game character who has been sexualized I'd have to say Ivy Valentine though, when she isn't in the purple bondage, skin tight suit is she still sexualized or is that something entirely different?

What's your thoughts on the quotes and sexualization do you think it's subjective or just because someone is wearing a Bikini they're sexualized because apparently to the quotes I posted a bikini is sexualized clothing and if you put that Bikini on anything like a Cat, that Cat is now Sexualized.

 

[Spokker]

I believe that many of the cultural norms and "constructs" in this area are influenced by simple biological truths. What many of us find attractive is also correlated with fertility. Even if you're like me, and you don't ever want to have children, those biological truths are still playing out. In other words, I don't want to slip a condom on, but force myself to so I don't face the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy.

This is why men are generally not into fashion shows and runway models even if the models are practically nude. They tend to be wafer thin in order to show off the clothes and not the person, and their physical attributes are not in line with what men instinctively look for in a fertile mate. I'm not saying that men need gigantic titties and huge thighs, but men generally look for a woman who looks as if she can bear some children, even if that individual doesn't not necessarily want children. Women consistently underestimate the acceptable amount of weight that men find attractive. Not saying that obese women are going to clean up, but women generally don't need to look like a runway model. The fashion industry is run by women and eccentric homosexual men, after all.

So it's no surprise that a medium primarily produced by men and targeted toward men will feature attractive women that would otherwise signal fertility if they were real. The new Lara Croft may not be wearing a bikini, but still features a good-sized bust and thighs, and a symmetrical face with few, if any, blemishes. When modern women react to the prevailing sexuality and attractiveness of female characters in video games, they instinctively start "competing" with the virtual characters, which is why they are so negative about them on a deeper level. I believe that many of the biggest opponents of sexuality in video games are people who are too skinny or too fat, don't have symmetrical faces and probably have lower than average chances of reproducing (no, not that can't get laid, but when they do the risk of pregnancy is lower than average), but that's just my speculation.

Of course, there are other reasons why many men are attracted to video games (there are plenty of games without a hint of sexualization or even characters whose demographics are still 90% male), but these biological truths are certainly playing out. We tend to look for intellectual, often sinister reasons for why things are the way they are. It's just the way we are wired, I think.

In other words, Chun Li's thighs were not an accident.

 

[panzerfaust]

It really comes down to the fact that men are still the largest demographic in the gaming sphere, whether that's the actual players or the developers who create games (at least in terms of the blockbuster titles that gaming discussion typically revolves around). Therefore, you're going to see that bias in the products created. Sometimes that bias is clearly distasteful and oafish (The Witcher), but I think such cases stem from the likelihood that video game development is still handled by awkward nerds with absolutely zero sense of tack. I wouldn't even call them sexist, just that they have the sexual imagination of 10 year olds. And because they are so miserable at character design, now every developer has to answer for any hint of eroticism seen in their characters. So now we're in this silly situation where knee jerk shaming is the first reaction to anything that looks remotely attractive, which is really limiting to creativity, if you think about it. 

There's a place for sex appeal, there's nothing wrong with appreciating it and I'd argue everyone does appreciate it, it's just that gaming has historically been so immature about it. 

 

[Mr_hat]

Our society was once one where a woman showing her ankles made her a whore because it was based from sexually opressed right wing militant hardcore christians. So of course our society still struggles with sex and ourr views on it are just plain awful.


What kills me is if in one game you have like the sorceress from dragons crown with her giant tits and people lose their minds saying it degrades women and is overly sexualized but in another game you can have a naked woman with her tits out that has been cut in half by a chainsaw wielding monster and no one says a thing. So our society says "you can cut off the tit and its ok, but you better not enjoy a tit or your a sinner, pervert and a sexist".

If you don't agree with something that's fine, don't subject yourself to it and stick what you agree with. It really is that easy. People would be much happier if they stopped worrying about what others do or enjoy.

 

[Ryuukishi]

In the words of Nigel Tufnel: "What's wrong with being sexy?"

 

[DNukem170]

There is a lot of attempted sexualization for a variety of reasons, but there are just as many examples of female characters that are not intentionally sexualized but might end up being anyway for a lot of people. Part of this is simply the age we live in. EVERYTHING is a fetish nowadays. And if you try to create an Action Girl, she will be sexualized almost instantly by the fans alone. A perfect example is Korra from Legend of Korra. She is not sexualized at all in the show but the fandom almost universally has the hots for her.

Also, many women love being sexualized or fantasize about it. The most extreme examples being those who take part in bondage or rape fantasy scenarios. Who do think makes up the majority of the fanbase for Fifty Shades of Grey or the Gor novels?

Oh, and we can't include anything from Japan in this discussion. EVERYTHING is sexualized in Japan.

 

[triplemint]

The main reason people complain about sexualization in games is because it gets REALLY intense and is aimed almost entirely at men. Imagine if every male in videogames looked like a yaoi character, that's what its like to be a girl gamer. 

 

[DNukem170]

Would that mean every video game would look like Hetalia?

 

[davo1224]

The difference is intent. Dead or Alive might as well be called Tits and Ass. It's a franchise that has survived based solely on that. It's another to see Bayonetta's giant tits and cry foul.

 

[panzerfaust]

DoA is actually a really enjoyable series, especially the newest ones.

 

[Spokker]

The difference is intent. Dead or Alive might as well be called Tits and Ass. It's a franchise that has survived based solely on that. It's another to see Bayonetta's giant tits and cry foul.

If all people wanted from Dead or Alive were tits and ass they would go jerk off to porn.

The tits and ass of DOA is a selling point, of course, as are their personalities. They wouldn't go to so much trouble to tell you their likes and dislikes and ing blood type if all they were doing was tits and ass. But there's no evidence that they skimp on the fighting game part just to sell half-naked virtual women.

Attacking DOA in this way is usually done by snobby fighting game hypocrites. Almost every fighting game has hot chick characters. Chun Li is the classic example. They aren't exactly putting on sweatpants and headgear and sparring. Fighting games are all about flashy characters.

 

[DNukem170]

Actually, blood types are a pretty standard bio category in Japanese media.

 

[Billytwoshoes]

In closing, how do you view sexualization in Video Games? Is it subjective or is already there? Like if I had to come up with an idea of a game character who has been sexualized I'd have to say Ivy Valentine though, when she isn't in the purple bondage, skin tight suit is she still sexualized or is that something entirely different?

To answer the question, yes, sexualization is already there in most every video game (with the exception of abstract games like Tetris, unless falling blocks does something for you), its just not in the way most people expect it. The word sexualization means much more than just the appearance or act of sex itself, its about defining roles based upon sex or gender.

To elaborate, even the original Donkey Kong was sexualized, with Mario carrying out the typical sex role of the male protector by saving the fair Pauline. This scenario (or others like it with role reversals) plays out in most all of the games made in the 80s and 90s with a story, it's just as the graphics improved, they could focus more attention on the physical attraction side of sexuality. Making this paragraph short, both Cooking Mama and Ivy Valentine are just as sexualized, just for different traits (and I'm not agreeing that either of them are fair assessments of women, or characters in general, just stating the facts).

I think the main problem is overt (or polarizing, hyper, extreme, choose your own adjective) sexualization emphasizing the physical attraction as a means of ensuring the continuation of the species, and basically pandering to the lowest common denominator by sexing it up for selling an overall package. Spokker put it best in his first post, so I won't repeat what was already said quite well. There have been many case examples for both women and men that still possess many sexual qualities, but don't go overboard with their appearance, and I applaud those instances.

Personally I have a problem with playing any game that does push physical attraction overtly as a means to titillate their intended male demographic. I didn't care as much when I was a high school / college student, but with a wife and kids nowadays, I try to avoid it as much as possible in my own ways of not supporting it, and hoping the developers would as a whole grow out of this trend (which thankfully we've seen that happen starting with the last console generation).

But as a closing statement, I don't want to limit developers in however (and for what purpose) they want to sexualize their characters, I just know what I support and what I don't. It's there and it will never go away, people just need to be mature on how they create, handle, and view it in this medium.

 

[Jodou]

DoA is actually a really enjoyable series, especially the newest ones.

I'm not ashamed to say I enjoyed the volleyball game they made. When it came out, a bunch of guys I worked with at EB Games all got together, drank beer, and played it. We talked shit more than we cared about boob jiggle like it were any other game. That said, I never played the game alone because single player was lacking heh.

 

[Spokker]

Mediocre games like DOA Volleyball will forever and always be better than "games" like Gone Home. DOA Volleyball has actual gameplay mechannics and can be, gasp, fun. A lot of the indie game and "games as art" people forgot about fun and gameplay.

Then again, I have Journey sitting next to Lollipop Chainsaw on my shelf. I'd say my interests are pretty well-rounded.

 

[Fell Open Ian]

(with the exception of abstract games like Tetris, unless falling blocks does something for you)

All I see is dicks and tits.