Is the Wii ruining the gaming future?

Damianogre

Damianogre

CAGiversary!
This question has been rolling around in my head for a long while now.
I used to be a Nintendo fan boy, but being 42 years old I decided to buy a PS3. I also have an Xbox360 60gig under the tree.
Ok, so among the gamers that I know and forums that I read, I have heard very little good about the Nintendo Wii. I am wondering if a year from now all the Wii owners will look at their system and think, "what a piece of junk, this is my first and last try at video games." So all these new gamers will not continue to be gamer into the future.
I guess my real question is, The Wii, good or bad for gaming future.
 
The wii blurred the thick lines between casual and hardcore gamers.
All systems from now on will be like the Nintendo Wii. PS3 and Xbox 360 both debuted their versions of the "Mii" this past quarter, and both systems plan to have games designated for movement control like the wii.

As for the wii being good or bad for the future? Good for casual gamers, bad for the hardcore. It is going to be a long slow process though.
 
I don't think it will be bad. The 360 and PS3 are selling a lot of game in traditional "hardcore" genres. Nintendo just found a different market to make money in.

I don't think we'll see Sony or MS making huge efforts next generation to focus on that market. They'll keep focusing on "hardcore" gamers and casual gamers into sports games etc. Maybe we'll see more games like Scene It etc. from them, but I don't see us seeing them shift to mainly focusing on casual games/non-games that appeal to soccer moms etc. like Nintendo has.

Like you I used to be a big Nintendo fan, and bought Wii at launch with store credit, but ended up hating it and selling it and going with a 360. But I still don't see the Wii as a bad thing for the industry. It's just not for you or I, and that's perfectly fine as the other two companies have us covered.
 
Listening to the hardcore was dooming the industry. At some point, Nintendo's competitors are going to have to come up with a viable business model. The companies arent going to kill themselves subsidizing your fancy bells and whistles forever.

At the end of the day, its all about money. Despair in the future that lies ahead.

Code: 
FY*       Sony**        Nintendo        Microsoft
1998      974,000,000    629,000,000
1999    1,130,000,000    645,000,000
2000      730,000,000    421,000,000
2001     -409,000,000    726,000,000
2002      623,000,000    800,000,000      -750,000,000
2003      939,000,000    560,000,000    -1,191,000,000
2004      650,000,000    316,000,000    -1,215,000,000
2005      404,000,000    777,000,000      -485,000,000
2006       75,000,000    894,000,000    -1,262,000,000
2007   -1,969,000,000  1,489,000,000    -1,892,000,000
2008   -1,265,000,000  2,480,000,000       426,000,000       
2009       51,000,000  1,026,000,000       
Totals  1,953,000,000 10,762,000,000   -6,369,000,000
 
I think the Wii showed the other 2 that there were people not yet buying into the 360 and PS3. That bit of market share, that is still astounding comparing to the sales of Wii's.

Like others have stated, that Hardcore gamers are too focused and narrow as a base, and a general acceptance of the casual gamer group builds a stronger base such as the Wii.

It's a printing money machine that both MS and Sony can't say the same about their own hardware right now.

Having the 360 as a price below the Wii could actually give it the boost it needs to gain much more mass support for it, but without titles that would cater to more casual younger/older gamers, it's still not going to sell alot of games.
 
It's honestly too soon to say. The Wii has only been around 2 years and people are already dooming the industry?

Give it some time, the Wii just shows that a market that was previously untapped can and has done quite well, and I seriously doubt our "hardcore" games are going anywhere. It's just an expanded market, that's all. The whole industry is still in its infancy compared to other entertainment industries, so don't jump to conclusions so soon. Fads come and go, and the casual gaming market will eventually settle into place once it becomes more mainstream.
 
It's a good thing for the industry. People who haven't played a game before really love the thing which expands the market.

Of course, it also propagates an industry filled with increasingly more dreck. So really, we might actually be better off if the industry were declining.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']It's a good thing for the industry. People who haven't played a game before really love the thing which expands the market.

Of course, it also propagates an industry filled with increasingly more dreck. So really, we might actually be better off if the industry were declining.[/quote]
Agreed except for the "more dreck" comment. We've always had crappy games and shovelware. But the simple fact is that more consoles sold is a good thing.

Can anyone argue that more consoles in homes means the death of the industry? "Hardcore" games still sell, they've just got competition now. The industry is thriving, and will continue to do so. The market will become more segmented, but that will just provide us with more options.
 
If the Wii does change the way Sony and Microsoft operate their gaming departments, it will be for the better in the long run. Once developers and consumers get over the idea of motion controls as a pure gimmick, you'll then start to see the quality of games increase, as consumers will have had their fill of shovelware from the Wii era and will be looking for quality, instead of more of the same. There will still be a lot of shovelware (what generation hasn't had a ton?), but the more-informed consumers (the ones more likely to become regular gamers) won't be buying them, and you don't want the less-informed consumers guiding the industry anyway.

I had the Wii as my first current gen console, and I was satisfied with it. I have since picked up a 360 (mainly for multiplayer, as the Wii's system could use a lot of work), but it hasn't diluted my opinion of the Wii.
 
The label of hardcore gamer as well as just gamer need to go away, and the transition will be painful.

Gaming needs to move into the group that all other media already inhabits, where people dont describe themselves as book readers, movie watchers or music listeners in the same way as people do with games.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The label of hardcore gamer as well as just gamer need to go away, and the transition will be painful.

Gaming needs to move into the group that all other media already inhabits, where people dont describe themselves as book readers, movie watchers or music listeners in the same way as people do with games.[/QUOTE]

Movie watchers = movie buffs, Music Listeners = pretentious pricks, Book readers = nerds.

There are groups. Some people just know more than most about what they're into.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Movie watchers = movie buffs, Music Listeners = pretentious pricks, Book readers = nerds.

There are groups. Some people just know more than most about what they're into.[/quote]

This.

Although people who play alot of games, and know whats up, need a name.
Gamers sounds so dumb. We need a new name for the people who have a high investment in video games.
 
Any time you can get more people interested in video games it is a good thing even if 95% of the games totally suck. I don't think it hurts because these people don't know the difference between shovelware and a AAA game.

The worst case scenario is that they play the shovelware, hate it and decide all video games suck and never play again which only puts Nintendo in the position of not having that customer (which is right where they were before the Wii). The most likely scenario is that a small percentage decide to try out different games which leads them to the AAA titles and loving video games - then Nintendo (or the industry) has a customer for life they wouldn't otherwise have.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Movie watchers = movie buffs, Music Listeners = pretentious pricks, Book readers = nerds.

There are groups. Some people just know more than most about what they're into.[/quote]
The labels/groups exist, but are small and irrelevant. The vast majority of people who watch movies do not describe themselves as movie buffs.

Similarly, the new gamers now might not describe themselves as gamers. Hardcore gaming as we know it needs to and will become irrelevant. When the transition to a full mainstream media is complete, the group will be small enough to dismiss entirely.
 
I don't see the Wii ruining the future of gaming. The Wii itself is its own competition. Usually if the Wii is not the owners Primary system then it most likely is his Secondary system. I don't see the Wii really taking away from the PS3/360 sales. I also agree with the person who said that this generation really seperated the casual and hardcore gamer, but who really makes up what is considered Hardcore. Is it the graphics? The First Person Shooters? The M rating?

I mean even though the Wii is considered the casual gamer system, I'd say anyone who gets all the stars in Mario Galaxy, Every scan in Metroid Prime, Every broken window pane in Super Smash Bros Brawl, Every side quest in a Zelda games is as Hardcore as anyone.

At first I was very satisfied with my Wii, now it just sits collecting dust. The Internet channel got me, the Weather and News Channel got me, as well as the Virtual console. I've personally only purchased one game on the Virtual console. (Super Mario RPG) I have 5200 Points that need to be spent or sold but nothing interests me. Maybe Secret of Mana. Now I'm a little disappointed in my wii. It just doesn't satisfy like it use to anymore.
 
it will in time. look at how reality tv is killing tv same thing. or maybe its not so much killing it as perverting it into something most of us dont like.
 
I think gaming will take 2 separate paths. The PS3 and maybe the 360 will be for real gamers. I only say maybe for the 360 because of all the "hey, the 360 is like the Wii!" messages from MS so they might be trying to find a happy medium.

The Wii will be for non-gamers. Instead of playing board games, going to the park, playing bingo or knitting... people will now just play the Wii.

Nintendo isn't releasing any real games on it anymore... I know they said they're working on the next Zelda and Pikmin but I'm guessing that's just a response to the backlash from their E3 2008 showing. And the Wii is basically the home for shovelware.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The labels/groups exist, but are small and irrelevant. The vast majority of people who watch movies do not describe themselves as movie buffs.

Similarly, the new gamers now might not describe themselves as gamers. Hardcore gaming as we know it needs to and will become irrelevant. When the transition to a full mainstream media is complete, the group will be small enough to dismiss entirely.[/QUOTE]

That might be true. I'm just saying I prefer good games and will miss them when they're gone.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The labels/groups exist, but are small and irrelevant. The vast majority of people who watch movies do not describe themselves as movie buffs.

Similarly, the new gamers now might not describe themselves as gamers. Hardcore gaming as we know it needs to and will become irrelevant. When the transition to a full mainstream media is complete, the group will be small enough to dismiss entirely.[/QUOTE]

I hate to break it to you but movie buffs haven't been dismissed entirely. Look at Criterion.

The issue is to get a company like that providing consistent, thoughtful product. One of the few innovative companies we HAD was Sega and now that Sammy owns them they've been castrated.
I would agree about Core gaming needing to become irrelevant if only for the fact of that label and some of the "l33t" douchebags that have found their way into the community. This includes the Achievement and Trophy whore attachment that has subsequently become attached to it.
edit: Oh and to citing AAA product or even solid exclusive product on the Wii it's few and far between. Not to say that 360 or PS3 is much better in terms of straight AAA games but they're actually games instead of so much being Party Game shovelware.
 
Nintendo hasn't done anything with the Wii they didn't already do with the 8bit NES and the 16bit SNES.

The Wii does something that the 360 and PS3 dont do: They make videogames SIMPLE again. no 300 buttons, no dual sticks, just..wave your arms around.

So its no surprise that most games for the Wii are about as deep as "wave your arms around".

Will it ruin gaming? Of course not, it simply expands the market. For every 100 people who buy a Wii, one or two of them might go "Gee this is fun but, whats that Gears of War everyone is talking about?".
Etc.
 
No. I think it will make everyone step back and look at the industry, and some changes will be made, but overall, I dont see it ruining gaming.

Hopefully it will get more people interested in gaming. I dont think the Wii is the system to KEEP them interested though.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Hardcore gaming as we know it needs to and will become irrelevant.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, but there will always be a segment of the games industry that caters to them, same as there is with movies and books. "Hardcore" games (whatever they are) may become more niche, but won't go away entirely.

If that happens, though, then such games'd have to become strictly low-budget affairs. Not sure how the "hardcore" gamers would handle that sort of situation...
 
Remember this: The Wii is selling hardware like you wouldn't believe, but the 3rd party attach rate for games on the Wii is like...negative zero. So for all the Wii's being sold, devs aren't making any money.

Thats also a valuable lesson to be learned. The PS3 is also a nightmare to coax real power out of, another lesson.
 
[quote name='blueshinra']Maybe, but there will always be a segment of the games industry that caters to them, same as there is with movies and books. "Hardcore" games (whatever they are) may become more niche, but won't go away entirely.[/quote]
Certainly. Niches will still be filled. I'm counting on that as well, the base for pure turn based JRPGs as well as 2D sprite based games is already greatly diminished.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']That might be true. I'm just saying I prefer good games and will miss them when they're gone.[/quote]

Which is happening at an alarming rate.
 
[quote name='HeadRusch']Remember this: The Wii is selling hardware like you wouldn't believe, but the 3rd party attach rate for games on the Wii is like...negative zero. So for all the Wii's being sold, devs aren't making any money. [/quote]
Partially false. Partially irrelevant. The faster you move consoles, the lower the attach is going to be. You cant expect the 800k people who just bought Wiis to also buy 10 games. Wii is moving more 3rd party software than their competitors for the same time period. Weeks of ownership completely obliterates the argument of attach rate.

I would argue the exact opposite is happening. Devs arent making money in HD gaming. The titles that make the top 10 every month make money, just enough to balance out the 4 to 5 other games they made that lost and are losing an increasing amount of money.

Developer failure and consolidation is happening at an unprecedented rate because the business model doesnt work.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Partially false. Partially irrelevant. The faster you move consoles, the lower the attach is going to be. You cant expect the 800k people who just bought Wiis to also buy 10 games. Wii is moving more 3rd party software than their competitors for the same time period. Weeks of ownership completely obliterates the argument of attach rate.

I would argue the exact opposite is happening. Devs arent making money in HD gaming. The titles that make the top 10 every month make money, just enough to balance out the 4 to 5 other games they made that lost and are losing an increasing amount of money.

Developer failure and consolidation is happening at an unprecedented rate because the business model doesnt work.[/quote]

Who cares when the wii had 1 decent game come out.
Of course its easy to make money on MY PONY AND ME.
Shit costs like 40 bucks and a case of bud light to make.
 
Yes. Game quality has dropped to shit levels. Bang for your buck has dropped. The system is overpriced, and the technology underperforms.

Hopefully the add on for true 3d movement will improve it, but it is yet another peripheral for a system that should have been designed a little differently.

Ever see the awesome Wii tech demos on youtube by that talented asian programmer? yeah, nintendo shows nothing near that quality or innovation, and they manufacture the darn machine.

They have demoted Miyamoto to a shovelware producer. Wii music is total shit.

The Wii could be so much more amazing with the right software.
 
Probably a good thing. The PC will always have new games from indie devs because its easy to just start making your own games on the platform. Nothing more is needed than a PC and a free software download. People like to make games other people like to play, or they themselves like to play. Hopefully, the consoles all turn casual and hardcore gaming returns to where it should be, the PC.

PC PC PC

PC 4 lyfe, consoles drool!
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Probably a good thing. The PC will always have new games from indie devs because its easy to just start making your own games on the platform. Nothing more is needed than a PC and a free software download. People like to make games other people like to play, or they themselves like to play. Hopefully, the consoles all turn casual and hardcore gaming returns to where it should be, the PC.

PC PC PC

PC 4 lyfe, consoles drool![/quote]

In before comments about piracy.
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']Which is happening at an alarming rate.[/QUOTE]

Definitely. Look at the movie and music industries i.e. mostly homogenized fucking bullshit garbage. Gaming is already there in my opinion, so I savor any game that comes out that is actually good and isn't the same exact shit that everybody just jerked off to.

Soon, all games will either be big budget flavors of the week that are white hot for about a week, then nobody gives a fuck about after, or shovelware that nobody gives a fuck about anyway. Just like movies and music now.

Yeah I am a snob. I like quality and don't like wasting my time and money on complete mediocre garbage or worse. If the industry is headed in this direction, I don't want any part of it. I'll be playing the classics, since I have enough to last me a lifetime, just like movies and music.
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']In before comments about piracy.[/QUOTE]
Why pirate free/donation indie games?

That's just like pirating for the sake of pirating!
 
^And it's b/c of the Petz and Hamsterz and Imagine Babiez of the world that we get to see a sequel to a critically-acclaimed / retail-failure like Beyond Good and Evil.

I dont begrude so-called "shovelware", but neither do I actively support it. As far as the Wii goes, there are some decent games on the system, they just dont come out with the frequency that would satisfy the average "hardcore" gamer. But most ppl outside of this niche only need a new game every few months, if that. These ppl are perfectly happy with 3 or 4 games a year.

Times like the past few months, when you have all these interesting games coming out, even I as someone interested enough in gaming as a hobby to post on websites, think that there are *too many* games rather than not enough. Even just looking at the Wii, there are a handfull of titles I'm have some interest in like: Shaun White (balance board support), Rabbids TV Party (ditto), Star Wars Duels, Animal Crossing. I dont think many here would describe these as "hardcore", but then again, I dont even know what that term means.

In short, I think they'll always be a space for a Gears, a Fallout, a 'Tales of ...'. Nintendo just proved that gaming doesnt have to be *limited* to those genres.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Why pirate free/donation indie games?

That's just like pirating for the sake of pirating![/quote]

Which happens more then you think, but BitTorrent is a good outlet for people to experience it.
 
Yes, the Wii is ruining the future of gaming. Soon, game companies will be legally mandated to release nothing but minigame compilations, and all copies of Fallout and Call of Duty will self-destruct. :) Seriously, I think some people could stand to be a little less territorial about their hobby. Shovelware has been around a lot longer than the Wii, and it will continue to be around long after the Wii is gone. Gaming is getting bigger and more people are being invited to the party, but I don't see any evidence that the 'hardcore' scene is going away.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']The labels/groups exist, but are small and irrelevant. The vast majority of people who watch movies do not describe themselves as movie buffs.
[/QUOTE]

The majority of people who watch and buy movies the amount that people on here play/buy games call themselves movie buffs, film buffs etc.

Just like the people who play a lot of games call themselves gamers or hardcore gamers.

Of course the average, joe six pack who watches a few movies a year isn't going to label themselves. Just people really into the hobby.

It's that way for every hobby. People who love hunting call themselves hunters, join hunting clubs, subscribe to hunting magazines etc. People who run marathons are runners, etc. etc.

These hobby labels are silly, but they're hardly unique to gaming.

[quote name='Chacrana']That might be true. I'm just saying I prefer good games and will miss them when they're gone.[/QUOTE]

Same here. And I hate motion controls. And hate non-HD content. And hate the online system on the Wii.

But I'm busy and will be even busier when I start my Assistant Professor Job next year so it may be moot for me as gaming is always the first thing to get cut when my free time shrinks.

But still, I don't see the next Xbox or the PS4 being much different than the current ones in terms of features and types of games. We may see more casual games, but we aren't going to see less FPS games etc.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
check this article out,
http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/4234.html
do you agree or disagree with the article?

btw, check out this picture of the nes.
nesbox_copy.jpg.html


isn't the picture above what the wii is doing. there is even a quote that the hardcore gamers bash on about the wii, "now the entire family can get in on the action". that's what wii is doing and the hardcore bashes the retards, soccer moms, the kiddies, the grand ma's and the grand pa's and even the girls. so ask yourself, how is this suppose to destroy/ruin gaming?

if you like your sony and microsoft consoles then that is fine. they won't change the way they make their consoles unless they decide to quit the business or try to be extremely daring. they won't do it because their loyal customers would be alienated, so they are stuck serving only their loyal customers. i can prove this point by informing you the time when ms created the idea of possibly having a remote like the wii. all their loyal 360 fans went nuts when that possibility came through. so the 360/ps3 will never go the direction of the wii, which is a good thing for the 360/ps3 customers. but i can tell you that you will pay a hefty fee for playing.
 
I do agree with that article in the sense that I think there is room for Nintendo and there strategy and for other companies to focus on more traditional types of genres and for both types of consoles to make profits.

This gen is tough on Sony/MS financially as it was costly to make the move into HD, force Blu Ray to market etc. Next gen they should have powerful HD machines out that don't cost them as much to build as they did this go around. If they can get hardware costs down, they can make money while Nintendo is making money doing their thing with their piece of the market.

Also, the "hardcore" gamer market has been pretty stable (and growing) from the NES on. It remains to be seen if all the "non-gamers" and "casual gamers" who have bought the Wii stay into gaming or if the next Nintendo console returns to really only selling to gamers who are fans (or fanboys) of Nintendo.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I do agree with that article in the sense that I think there is room for Nintendo and there strategy and for other companies to focus on more traditional types of genres and for both types of consoles to make profits.

This gen is tough on Sony/MS financially as it was costly to make the move into HD, force Blu Ray to market etc. Next gen they should have powerful HD machines out that don't cost them as much to build as they did this go around. If they can get hardware costs down, they can make money while Nintendo is making money doing their thing with their piece of the market.

Also, the "hardcore" gamer market has been pretty stable (and growing) from the NES on. It remains to be seen if all the "non-gamers" and "casual gamers" who have bought the Wii stay into gaming or if the next Nintendo console returns to really only selling to gamers who are fans (or fanboys) of Nintendo.[/quote]

look at nintendo's handheld system [the ds] as a guide to answering your question.
the 360/ps3 next consoles will be priced the same or more depending on what technicalities they decide to go for. but i believe it will go up. ps3/360 owners are always wanting the latest stuff and those things come at a cost and you'll end up paying for it just to play.
 
[quote name='pochaccoheaven']look at nintendo's handheld system [the ds] as a guide to answering your question.
[/quote]

That's kind of a different animal. It has a robust library of "hardcore" games from third parties to go along with the casual games. Where as the Wii is really just the Nintendo franchises and a couple third party games to go along with the casual games. Plus the DS is so kid friendly.

I'm not saying the Wii won't have the staying bower the GBA/DS have, but it is a bit different and remains to be seen.

the 360/ps3 next consoles will be priced the same or more depending on what technicalities they decide to go for. but i believe it will go up. ps3/360 owners are always wanting the latest stuff and those things come at a cost and you'll end up paying for it just to play.
Click to expand...

I didn't say they would be priced differently, just that they should be able to get costs down on their end so they are losing so much money on each console sold at launch and can get to making a profit on hardware eventually. But I don't expect them to pass these lower costs on to consumers after all the money they're losing this generation.

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Whats this "loyalty" all about? There is none in this industry. Otherwise the PS2 userbase wouldve guaranteed the success of the PS3.[/QUOTE]

I said nothing about brand loyalty. Just game type loyalty. People playing "hardcore" games aren't going to suddenly stop buying them and just buy Wii Sports 3 and Wii Fit 2 next generation. And similarly the soccer moms that bought Wii Fit aren't going to by Halo 4 if they're still buying games at all next generation. That was my point.

The hardcore game market isn't going anywhere and isn't going to get smaller. The casual/non-game market could continue growing, or it could prove to be a fad and slow down if people who bought Wiis for Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. stop buying games and don't buy another console. Again, remains to be seen, while games like Halo 4, Gears of War 3 will still sell big numbers next generation.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Whats this "loyalty" all about? There is none in this industry. Otherwise the PS2 userbase wouldve guaranteed the success of the PS3.[/quote]

when diablo 3 wasn't "dark" enough for the diablo 3 loyalists, didn't they made an outcry and made petition to make the game more "darker".

if suppose metal gear solid 4 became non exclusive all the ps3 people would go nuts and the 360 people would cheer. it also goes the other way if gears of war is non exclusive all the 360 would cry out loud and the ps3 owners would cheer.
 
Yeah, there will always be bitching among "hardcore" gamers. They're one of the nerdiest hobbiest cliques out there.

But the point stands that people aren't going to (on a large scale) quit playing FPS, RPGs, etc. and start playing Wii Fit 2 next generation. People are generally at least "loyal" to the genres they like.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Whats this "loyalty" all about? There is none in this industry. Otherwise the PS2 userbase wouldve guaranteed the success of the PS3.[/quote]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
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