Is the Wii ruining the gaming future?

[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Since you brought up the question of Atlus sales, here are some LTD for Atlus/Nippon Ichi (NPD Dec 07).

Do you have any doubt that similar numbers on the HD systems would not kill the company?
[/quote]

I'll ask it again, and anyone can feel free to answer. Does Atlus/NIS grade sales look viable on the HD systems? Yes or no
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You don't even set the terms for your argument...it's not a question of whether or not Atlus/NIS sales are sustainable. It all depends on the cost of development.

People paint Atlus like some mom and pop operation and if you don't buy their newest game, regardless of quality, they'll flop over and die. That's just not how it is. On the other hand, no, they aren't as big as Epic Games.

but what's to prevent them from getting a 360 dev kit and making a game that looks slightly better than a PS2/Xbox game? It's not going to require a Halo-sized budget and all the RPGs are on the 360 this gen.

Oh, right. They've already done that. Even though the games are supposedly awful.

Persona 5 360 :drool:
 
I can't imagine how one can't think MOST Wii games are crappy.
"WAVING THE Wii REMOTE TO _____" was fun in 2006, and parts of 2007. It's not fun anymore.
A lot of games focus on that. In fact, when do we really get GAMES. Ya know, games with a length. Stories. Adventures. Most are short games, or party games that get really tiresome so fast because you are doing the SAME actions in just.. different mini games.

Trauma Center (Both Second Opinion & New Blood) are games that truly felt unique because of the remote/nunchuck. More games should feel like this, but they all fail because of that.
 
Man the stupidity in this topic just keeps growing. Nintendo supporters really will say anything to try and make it seem like their system is receiving or going to be receiving quality titles soon.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Man the stupidity in this topic just keeps growing. Nintendo supporters really will say anything to try and make it seem like their system is receiving or going to be receiving quality titles soon.[/QUOTE]

I could honestly care less if this is directed at me. I am here now and may not make it back to the thread at all.

You claimed history is going to repeat but not one console has come back to a dominate sales spot in all of this history. Your points are not valid its that simple. I could care less if you like no more heroes or look forward to Mad World. It doesnt effect me in the least.

Slam the wii till this thread dies, and jump to another to do the same. Thats not stopping it, thats not changing it's sales. If the cycle is long enough you can bet your ass other developers will come up with games for the system. Ragardless of what you like or not.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Look I'll PAY $60 for a new domestic copy of SMT on the PS3 and most of you have heard me consistently bitch about the $60 price as bullshit. The thing is I want to drool all over myself seeing that artwork in HD. It means something to see it in HD unlike Halo and the rest. I mean some of those others might be graphically impressive but are usually complete shit artwise.
edit: If cost is really an issue why doesn't Atlus do it directly through Amazon and their site in Japan solely on pre-orders? That's what Konami did or something similar to test the waters of one of the Beatmania IIDX's to see if their cost would be covered and they'd make a profit. I think Atlus would easily get enough people.[/quote]

this is what you'd say now. but when the price point reaches $70 you'll say no way right! remember that their cost for making these hd games is going up and with newer hardware means more time and more efforts. this would all translate to wanting the customers to pay more for the games. remember there was an article where one of the two companies originally wanted to charge customers 70-80 dollars a game [i believe it was sony]. but they held back from doing it.

also, things for 360/ps3 are going digital distribution, so would you be willing to pay $60 for a download of the game? you're probably thinking of why would they make you pay retail full price for it when all you're getting is the image of the game. the idea is from what you have stated. if the hardcore gamer wants to play those games, they will shell out the money no matter what as long as they get to play the game. so basically this guy is stupid enough to pay $60 for a digital image of a game. the sad part is that it isn't an actual ownership, just a title that permits you have ownership. he's willing to pay $60 dollars for a piece of paper, a paper that i can use for cleaning my butt. i praise the hardcore:applause:!
 
[quote name='Snake2715']I could honestly care less if this is directed at me. I am here now and may not make it back to the thread at all.

You claimed history is going to repeat but not one console has come back to a dominate sales spot in all of this history. Your points are not valid its that simple. I could care less if you like no more heroes or look forward to Mad World. It doesnt effect me in the least.

Slam the wii till this thread dies, and jump to another to do the same. Thats not stopping it, thats not chaning the sales. and if the cycle is long enough you can bet your ass other developers will come up with games for the system. Ragardless of what you like or not.[/quote]


the devs have had 2 years to come up with anything...they're following Nintendo's lead with sports/fitness/party game/kid game knock offs. that's where the money is. that's the awesome market expansion at work and that's the pay off for the wii. Enjoy waiting.

so now we have 2 systems this gen riding on the "wait for X" philosophy.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']the devs have had 2 years to come up with anything...they're following Nintendo's lead with sports/fitness/party game/kid game knock offs. that's where the money is. that's the awesome market expansion at work and that's the pay off for the wii. Enjoy waiting.

so now we have 2 systems this gen riding on the "wait for X" philosophy.[/QUOTE]

How long did your AAA game take to make? Halo 2 is that it or is it Gears? Its obvious you think I am waiting for game x to justify my purchase. I am not. I had a blast with Wii Sports and Excite Truck, I never even finished Zelda and to be honest I forced myself to finish Galaxy so I could sell it off while it was still bringing in a decent chunk. I never bought SSB, or Mario Kart. I enjoyed Zack Wiki and No More Heroes. I just played through Mirrors edge and Dead Space and had a good time as well.

I am not waiting on any game. I have too many games now. I have almost $700 in credit between Estarland, Goozex, and Gamestop/BB. Thats just credit, the money is not an issue for me, its the time. I just rarely get the time between my pesonal life/work and other hobbies. Gaming is not my primary source of fun any longer.

For the last 2-3 years I have been selling games off, as I faced reality that I had too large of a backlog and I would never even get to half of them.
 
The Wii is not bad for gaming, not at all. It's main selling points were it's low initial price point and it's new control scheme, and with people becoming increasingly sedentary, I think that's not entirely a bad direction for games. It just needs to be refined quite a bit IMO. There's nothing to say that you can't have interactive games that are also hardcore, or that button mashing is going to die out anytime soon.

The Wii may be an introductory system for many eventual "hard-core" gamers, who knows? It's opened up a whole new market, a big one, while the PS3 and 360 are competing for the same market of gamers. Casuals have burst onto the scene in online gaming as well (they are the main driving force behind WoW for instance, and Blizzard has begun to heavily cater to them). But as long as there are people out there; those like many in this thread, myself, nearly everyone I know online, etc... there will be a market for PS3/360 type systems and the games we typically associate with them. The sky is not falling.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']the devs have had 2 years to come up with anything...they're following Nintendo's lead with sports/fitness/party game/kid game knock offs. that's where the money is. that's the awesome market expansion at work and that's the pay off for the wii. Enjoy waiting.

so now we have 2 systems this gen riding on the "wait for X" philosophy.[/QUOTE]

Your not going to convince a fanboy so dont waste your breath. Honestly it doesnt matter that the Wii has had the same amount of time as stuff like Gears 2 or ToV which were ground up titles....all that matters is they love their system so they must hold on to belief that a flood of AAA is on the way.

Gaming is not my primary source of fun any longer.
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Ok cant help but make a snide comment because you made it too easy. This quote shows your Nintendos target market, the casual gamer. ;)
 
Lets not put me in the "wait for ___" group. I'm generally not interested in AAA titles. I'm good with what we've got.

Clarification on Atlus. They have not developed anything for either the PS3 or the 360.

Spectral Force 3 is Idea Factory, Operation Darkness is Success, Zoids Assault is Tomy. They also tanked HARD.

Their major internal properties are SMT, Trauma Center and Etrian Odyssey.
 
The Wii isn't ruining gaming's future. It's helping it evolve into an even bigger mainstream source of entertainment, and that's great for the industry.

"Hardcore games" (whatever those really are) aren't going anywhere. They'll just have more casual games next to them than usual on store shelves. All it means is the "hardcore gamer" will have a slightly harder time finding them at Best Buy because they'll be more "softcore" games in the way. There's no need to panic.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled "Wii Sucks vs. No It Don't!" pissing match...
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']


Ok cant help but make a snide comment because you made it too easy. This quote shows your Nintendos target market, the casual gamer. ;)[/QUOTE]


Maybe MSI maybe, that was a fear. The reality is if I had say 2 weeks off and wanted to get the latest DDS then I would do that, its not intimidating to me in the least. I have been playing games since 2-3 years old and am 30 in May.

The reality for me is although I still love those games, I just don't dedicate as much time any longer. I cant leave a complicated game for 2-3 months and come back and pick right up. I am to far out of the curve of what the hell is going on. So when I do that it takes me a few hours to re grasp where I stopped and what the next goal was. I have yet to play Oblivion since September, I plan to as I did some grinding. But when i did play in September it was for about 4 hours and it had been almost two months (July) since I had touched it before that.

Since then I have taken a few weeks off and rolled through some other games. This weekend I am going to hit DMC4, and I just finished XIII last Sunday. I will eventually get to Oblivion as its one of my favorite series since Arena came out. I just don't spend that time gaming anymore (with the exception of this last month).

I work on my car, play paintball, fish, ride quads, etc. I just don't lock myself up in the summer to game with the rare exception.

So am I a true casual, probably not. Its not that I don't like, or desire to play some other games. I just don't give them priority.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Lets not put me in the "wait for ___" group. I'm generally not interested in AAA titles. I'm good with what we've got.

Clarification on Atlus. They have not developed anything for either the PS3 or the 360.

Spectral Force 3 is Idea Factory, Operation Darkness is Success, Zoids Assault is Tomy. They also tanked HARD.

Their major internal properties are SMT, Trauma Center and Etrian Odyssey.[/quote]

fair enough, as long as I'm kept out of the "Gears 2/Halo 3" group...

in any case, they published on the system and the companies that developed those games are not as huge as Atlus. i.e. 360 obviously doesn't cost an arm and a leg to develop for, if you don't want it to.

They tanked HARD because they sucked HARD.


The Wii isn't ruining gaming's future. It's helping it evolve into an even bigger mainstream source of entertainment, and that's great for the industry.

"Hardcore games" (whatever those really are) aren't going anywhere. They'll just have more casual games next to them than usual on store shelves. All it means is the "hardcore gamer" will have a slightly harder time finding them at Best Buy because they'll be more "softcore" games in the way. There's no need to panic.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled "Wii Sucks vs. No It Don't!" pissing match...
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once again, I ask whether this "expansion" is even a reality yet. Tons of systems sold and tons of Wii Fit/asstd. Nintendo 1st party games sold doesn't expand the industry. It expands Nintendo, thus far.

hardcore (whatever that is) vs. casual (whatever that is) shouldn't even be a question yet.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Largest marketshare has always meant the most good games, though it has always come at the price of having the lowest ratio of good games or overall review averages.
[/QUOTE]

The interesting thing to me here is that doesn't seem to be true this time--at least not if looking just at good games in traditional genres discounting Wii Fit, Wii Music and other casual crap.

I'd agree from the 8 bit Era up to this the console with the largest market share had the most good games--good games defined as games I liked. The NES, SNES, PS1 and PS2 got the most play from me in those respective generations.

This time the Wii is on top, but has by far the least games that I want to play. Mario, Metroid and Zelda where all I really enjoyed while I had it (super paper mario was ok I guess), and there's not been a single game that's interested me since selling it in March.

With the piss poor third party support in terms of games in traditional genres (consequence of the big budget games going to the other consoles) I don't think the Wii will have the most good games in traditional genres this generation. If you like Nintendo franchises, casual games and the occasional smaller budget quirky Japanese game like No More Heroes it will be a great console for you. Other wise it's not really worth it, and certainly couldn't be an only or main console.
 
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The Wii isn't doing anything but making money.

The game was changing before this generation, PS2 was the precursor to the Wii in terms of tapping a larger market.

The Wii is going further, beyond just expanding the 18-30 year old user base.

The Chicken Littles of this thread should relax, even if you become a niche audience it can still be a considerable niche. Look at Gears of War and Halo... back in the early 2000s I felt the same way about Xbox fans as most of you guys feel about Wii fans.

The difference between now and then is that I'm no longer in high school.
 
I hate the Wii. The graphics are gayer than gay pride parade in San Francisco. I really hate the motion sensor too, unless you're talking sports.
 
[quote name='BenAiir']I hate the Wii. The graphics are gayer than gay pride parade in San Francisco. I really hate the motion sensor too, unless you're talking sports.[/quote]

watdog.gif
 
[quote name='ninja dog']
...
once again, I ask whether this "expansion" is even a reality yet. Tons of systems sold and tons of Wii Fit/asstd. Nintendo 1st party games sold doesn't expand the industry. It expands Nintendo, thus far.

hardcore (whatever that is) vs. casual (whatever that is) shouldn't even be a question yet.[/quote]

you can find your answer here
42133-5.jpg
the funny thing is that it got even better.

the guy is still dreaming. "wake up, ninja dog. wake up." classic rpg quote. praise the hardcore :applause:!
 
[quote name='willardhaven']
The Chicken Littles of this thread should relax, even if you become a niche audience it can still be a considerable niche. Look at Gears of War and Halo... back in the early 2000s I felt the same way about Xbox fans as most of you guys feel about Wii fans.
[/QUOTE]

Abolutely. This topic is just silly. "Hardcore" games aren't going anywhere with games like Halo and Gears of War and GTA selling like hot cakes.

They will always be around, and be plenty of AAA games in these traditional genre's to keep gamers happy regardless of the success of the Wii. Just because there's a new and growing market for casual games doesn't mean there's all of a sudden going to be less "hardcore" gamers buying FPS, RPGs and other traditional genres.

At the same time, the Nintendo fanboys have to realize that Nintendo's direction is going to leave their consoles with little more than Nintendo franchises and casual games with the vast majority of the major third party block buster games staying on Sony and MS's systems. That's just the way it's going to be as they're aiming at different demographics and major FPSs, western RPGs etc. are going to sell more (and at a higher price) on the 360 and PS3 as a multiplatform release than it would as a Wii exclusive.

So at best the Wii will get a few random exclusives and shitty ports of games like the Treyarch Call of Duty games. Notice that CoD3 and the new one got Wii versions, while Infinity Ward didn't bother porting CoD2 and CoD4. Some developers just want to shit out games on every platform, others want to make the best games they can that push HD graphics and online play and that stuff isn't going to the Wii.

But most of all people need to quit bitching about the Wii, as well as defending it like they own Nintendo stock. It's a game console, it either offer's what you want to play or it doesn't. It's not going to ruin gaming and it's not going to take over the industry just because it has the most market share.
 
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[quote name='willardhaven']The Wii isn't doing anything but making money.

The game was changing before this generation, PS2 was the precursor to the Wii in terms of tapping a larger market.

The Wii is going further, beyond just expanding the 18-30 year old user base.

The Chicken Littles of this thread should relax, even if you become a niche audience it can still be a considerable niche. Look at Gears of War and Halo... back in the early 2000s I felt the same way about Xbox fans as most of you guys feel about Wii fans.

The difference between now and then is that I'm no longer in high school.[/QUOTE]

condescension is always a fun way to side step an argument. As if the "looks like all you 'hardcores' are getting left in the dust, casual is where it's at" guys are any better...guess what, we're all arguing on the internet about videogames.

you can find your answer here

the guy is still dreaming. "wake up, ninja dog. wake up." classic rpg quote. praise the hardcore !
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yeah, the ds is getting some nice support. but we're talking about the wii.

whatever, people can't seem to get over the hardcore/casual thing. I must be some mountain dew swizzling Halo player.
 
[quote name='ninja dog']condescension is always a fun way to side step an argument. As if the "looks like all you 'hardcores' are getting left in the dust, casual is where it's at" guys are any better...guess what, we're all arguing on the internet about videogames.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn't trying to be condescending at all.

I am not sure if I got my point across, I'm saying there's room for all of us. When Xbox launched I thought it was a threat, eventually I realized that they're just games. The more mainstream things get, the more likely there will be something to fulfill all of our tastes.
 
Well yeah if a RPG does 100k or so It's a sucess if the budget is small.
HOWEVER, "next gen" RPGs like Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, etc. have rather large budgets and may need to hit that high one million mark to make them dough.

Atlus will do fine if they stay on the DS and Wii because they are easier to develop for and cost less cash. However, I can't see it costing much to put out on the 360 if they have PS2 style graphics and a small devlopment team.

Also, if Persona was on the 360 the market would implode and the Japanese market would actually buy more 360s. Granted the 360 has already outsold the original XBox in less time, so Microsoft is getting somewhere.
 
when the hardcore audience starts mentioning this very very secretive and deadly word, during an arguement about the wii and the wii audience are giving more then justifiable reasons, they often resort to this very very secretive and deadly word. the word is to target that particular audience so that people can neglect your comments and say you don't have merit to them and they have more merit while they themselves are also an alternative of this very very secretive and deadly word. it also means that they are cornered and want to stop and why they often use this very very secretive and deadly word.

let's play a deadly casual game called, compare and contrast,
look at the two quotes and see if you can find the word.

quote 1
"Abolutely. This topic is just silly. "Hardcore" games aren't going anywhere with games like Halo and Gears of War and GTA selling like hot cakes.

They will always be around, and be plenty of AAA games in these traditional genre's to keep gamers happy regardless of the success of the Wii. Just because there's a new and growing market for casual games doesn't mean there's all of a sudden going to be less "hardcore" gamers buying FPS, RPGs and other traditional genres.

At the same time, the Nintendo fanboys have to realize that Nintendo's directly is going to leave their consoles with little more than Nintendo franchises and casual games with the vast majority of the major third party block buster games staying on Sony and MS's systems. That's just the way it's going to be as they're aiming at different demographics and major FPSs, western RPGs etc. are going to sell more (and at a higher price) on the 360 and PS3 as a multiplatform release than it would as a Wii exclusive.

So at best the Wii will get a few random exclusives and shitty ports of games like the Treyarch Call of Duty games. Notice that CoD3 and the new one got Wii versions, while Infinity Ward didn't bother porting CoD2 and CoD4. Some developers just want to shit out games on every platform, others want to make the best games they can that push HD graphics and online play and that stuff isn't going to the Wii.

But most of all people need to quit bitching about the Wii, as well as defending it like they own Nintendo stock. It's a game console, it either offer's what you want to play or it doesn't. It's not going to ruin gaming and it's not going to take over the industry just because it has the most market share."

quote 2
"I'm about ready to stop as your fanboy bias is causing you to misread my posts.

1. Again show how "hardcore" or "traditional" (what ever you want to call it) is declining when games like Halo 3, GTA IV etc. are selling record amounts.

2. I never said all casual games had to be simple. I just said they're not for me. I had a Wii and hated such games. I also hate motion controls and don't much like the touch controls on the DS (aside from puzzle games)--most of the DS games I've loved barely used the touch screen or didn't use it at all.

I don't get what you're missing. I mainly only like FPS games with online play and western RPGs, and cutting edge HD graphics. The Wii and Nintendo's focus are pretty much polar opposite of that.

And again, there's nothing wrong with that focus or those types of games as long as Sony and/or MS are keeping my personal gaming needs satisfied. Which MS 100% is this generation.

You're just a Nintendo fanboy (see dropping "reggie" in above post) and getting bent out of shape over perceived slights at your favorite company. I don't have any personal loyalty to any of these three companies. I just buy the one(s) that fit my gaming needs best and Nintendo doesn't do it for me any more. They do for you and it's great that we have that variety in gaming options so that there something for everyone."

as side note, it also goes the other way around too!

[quote name='ninja dog']condescension is always a fun way to side step an argument. As if the "looks like all you 'hardcores' are getting left in the dust, casual is where it's at" guys are any better...guess what, we're all arguing on the internet about videogames.



yeah, the ds is getting some nice support. but we're talking about the wii.

whatever, people can't seem to get over the hardcore/casual thing. I must be some mountain dew swizzling Halo player.[/quote]

there is a very strong supporting argument [an answer] for his question and he totally said "it doesnt count!" i don't know what to tell you. this definitely proves the hardcore is living a fantasy world of their own. praise the hardcore :applause:!
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I wasn't trying to be condescending at all.

I am not sure if I got my point across, I'm saying there's room for all of us. When Xbox launched I thought it was a threat, eventually I realized that they're just games. The more mainstream things get, the more likely there will be something to fulfill all of our tastes.[/QUOTE]

hey, sorry for the misunderstanding then. finals, stress, etc. etc. ;)

pochaccoheaven-- I agree the DS has come into its own, I don't think the Wii has and that's what the thread is about.
 
I dont think very many people here seriously think the Wii is killing gaming nor do many of us think it is going to do some horrid irreversible damage. It might seem that way because when your arguing with fanboys that are so hardcore they actually believe the Wii is competing......its kind of easy to state things worse then you might mean them or be misinterpreted. Personally I have just been trying to make the argument that 1. The Wii is doing more harm then good to the industry. Not saying its killing it or anything, just that all this crap about it bringing new people to gaming is a joke. 2. That its a joke to try and pretend that the Wiis library is anything better then meh and that Nintendo is still focusing on gamers(on the Wii that is, Nintendo is still the shit on the DS).
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Persona 5 is probably going to be on the DS or PS2 if things keep up.

Magus, do you mean competing in terms of sales or review scores?[/QUOTE]

DS or PS2 is what I am hoping for though a cheap 360 version would be hella cool too.

As for the Wii I am talking about the only thing that matters, the number of quality titles. Sales wise its a no brainer that it is competing, but when you look at the library the Wii is just not treading water.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']The game was changing before this generation, PS2 was the precursor to the Wii in terms of tapping a larger market.[/QUOTE]

I'm somewhat curious as to how the PS2 was on its way to tapping a larger market. Was it because it included a DVD player when few people had one? If not, what was different about the PS2's penetration compared to the PS1? People were downright obsessed with the PS1, but nearly 15 years later, it's just another console... unless I'm missing something.

The Wii achieved it's penetration by focusing on gameplay. Not graphics, not connectivity, not media features... just the gameplay. Look at the PS3, which has more media functionality than a TV station and consistently sits at the bottom of the sales heap.
 
In my opinion it isn't the Wii's fault. Video games are a business, which means all the matters is money. If a game sucks, but it sells, then great for the publishers/devolopers. The (harcore) gamers get screwed. This isn't just on the Wii, but it is more prevalent on that system.
 
[quote name='Renaissance 2K']I'm somewhat curious as to how the PS2 was on its way to tapping a larger market. Was it because it included a DVD player when few people had one? If not, what was different about the PS2's penetration compared to the PS1? People were downright obsessed with the PS1, but nearly 15 years later, it's just another console... unless I'm missing something.
[/QUOTE]

I just noticed a lot of people jump into gaming with the PS2. It was a fishing rod baited with a DVD player and GTA III was the lure.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']
As for the Wii I am talking about the only thing that matters, the number of quality titles. Sales wise its a no brainer that it is competing, but when you look at the library the Wii is just not treading water.[/QUOTE]

As much as I like DMK's philosophy on developers/innovation, I have to say that the Wii is really disappointing to me. I think the DS is the closest we have to a dominance/innovation platform.

I loved Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros. and Mario Kart... now what Nintendo?

The 360 and PS3 tempt me with their expanding libraries, while the Wii is becoming less and less attractive.

Home console gaming is dying on its own, Nintendo is just trying to survive.
 
[quote name='Renaissance 2K']I'm somewhat curious as to how the PS2 was on its way to tapping a larger market. Was it because it included a DVD player when few people had one? If not, what was different about the PS2's penetration compared to the PS1? People were downright obsessed with the PS1, but nearly 15 years later, it's just another console... unless I'm missing something.

The Wii achieved it's penetration by focusing on gameplay. Not graphics, not connectivity, not media features... just the gameplay. Look at the PS3, which has more media functionality than a TV station and consistently sits at the bottom of the sales heap.[/QUOTE]

1. I would say the PS2 was doing it as was the Xbox to a lesser extent. First off before them 90% of gamers were kids and people that had already played games. They brought in a lot of frat boys, hip hop kids and others. The stigma that video games were for losers and children went away and the market had expanded to included young adult men. It made minor penetration in the older adult market thanks to the DVD player but those gains were the smallest of small.

2. Do you think the Wii will be much different then the PS2? Do you honestly think that these new Wii players will remain gamers?

3. I would say the Wii achieved its penetration by focusing on gameplay is a bit generous. Its better to say it achieved its success by making gameplay less about gameplay and more about interactivity in a way the common man feels comfortable with. You use the PS3 having all this cool stuff with it and not being used as an example.....I think its a good one but for the wrong reason. The PS2 intimidates non gamers, its like people who have never used a PC before...they see it as some kind of complicated task. The Wii was something any idiot could do....I cant tell you how many times I have heard that then seen people flail their arms around like idiots. Its also why again I have a problem with the Wii because its not a gameplay focus, once the novelty wears off people stop caring about it.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']
3. I would say the Wii achieved its penetration by focusing on gameplay is a bit generous. Its better to say it achieved its success by making gameplay less about gameplay and more about interactivity in a way the common man feels comfortable with. You use the PS3 having all this cool stuff with it and not being used as an example.....I think its a good one but for the wrong reason. The PS2 intimidates non gamers, its like people who have never used a PC before...they see it as some kind of complicated task. The Wii was something any idiot could do....I cant tell you how many times I have heard that then seen people flail their arms around like idiots. Its also why again I have a problem with the Wii because its not a gameplay focus, once the novelty wears off people stop caring about it.[/quote]

Once the novelty wears off?

when the hell is that going to happen?

It's been 2 years since released, and currently owning around 35 games for the machine and I have yet to see an end to it.

Grant it that some of the AAA titles do get more love, but there are plenty of games that may not be AAA but are still good.

I really don't think the Wii is dragging anything down, what it's doing is catching the rest of the populous that probably wouldn't, and maybe that would open up into more.

Kids that start out with the Wii, may grow older and find that a 360 or ps3 would go with more of their older tastes.

with only 2 years into it, who can say that this will happen, and who's to say it will die.


I would say that it's a fault of the 360 and PS3 not wanting to actually support the younger and way older crowd. It's their own fault for making their own systems a 18-30-somethings and not a general entertainment system.

That in itself is making it's own gaming even more "hardcore" and niche.

That could also twist it around into the latest MK vs DC about censoring and getting a T rating instead of sticking with the M.

This also makes the question why the hardcore are so worried now that they are a minority...
 
I sold my Wii after a year of owning it. No more Heroes and Resident Evil 4 was fun, but not ground breaking compared to some games on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Nintendo found a great way to get a new fan base however and they deserve props for that.

I'll buy a Wii when they turn at least 100 dollars used. :)
 
[quote name='xycury']Once the novelty wears off?

when the hell is that going to happen?

It's been 2 years since released, and currently owning around 35 games for the machine and I have yet to see an end to it.

Grant it that some of the AAA titles do get more love, but there are plenty of games that may not be AAA but are still good.

I really don't think the Wii is dragging anything down, what it's doing is catching the rest of the populous that probably wouldn't, and maybe that would open up into more.

Kids that start out with the Wii, may grow older and find that a 360 or ps3 would go with more of their older tastes.

with only 2 years into it, who can say that this will happen, and who's to say it will die.


I would say that it's a fault of the 360 and PS3 not wanting to actually support the younger and way older crowd. It's their own fault for making their own systems a 18-30-somethings and not a general entertainment system.

That in itself is making it's own gaming even more "hardcore" and niche.

That could also twist it around into the latest MK vs DC about censoring and getting a T rating instead of sticking with the M.

This also makes the question why the hardcore are so worried now that they are a minority...[/QUOTE]

When I say the novelty wears off I am not saying for people like me and you. We are gamers and a good game is a good game no matter what the graphics look like, what type of controller it uses or how old the game is. When I say the novelty wears off I am talking about people again like my mother in law, my uncle and my cousin. People that bought it and like I said buy a game or two a year play it for 3 days then forget they even own the damn thing.

You say the Wii is catching the rest of the populous up.....but how is it doing so if it isnt expanding their horizon nor holding their interest? Again everyone I know that is a gamer is pissed at how few good games the system has and the non gamers pick up stuff with Wii in the name or crap like carnival games and get the impression that THAT is gaming then loose interest.

Also you say with only 2 years into it. Well with 2 years into it it has the worst support of the 3 systems. With 2 years into it it has worse support then alot of past systems. And 2 years into it even Nintendo themselves are not pulling their own weight.

Finaly its a joke to say that MS is not branching out nor Sony. Sony hasnt done as well of a job but with a handfull of games on PSN and Singstar and home they are reaching out. MS has their own avatars, tons of kid friendly games like shrek, they have actually worked with small developers to get kid friendly games on XBLA then there is stuff like Lips. They haven't done it nearly as well as Nintendo or Sony has, but they didnt think it was a core market. Its no different then how Nintendo underestimated how important online is to the core gamer and is now trying to play catch up.

Again please stop making excuses for Nintendo. I dont make them for the other 2 systems.

Edit - And btw I dont mind being a minority. It is a good thing to be a hardcore gamer and in the minority it means our industry is doing well. What I have a problem with is gameplay being tossed under the boss.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Exactly. The reason the second model of the DS did so much was because the second model improved the 1 big flaw the origional had.....the lighting. Outside that the DS was a smash success that had gamers either owning or wanting to own the games(but waiting because of the crappy light like myself). Games like Mario and Luigi, Phoenix Wright, Super Mario 64, Mario Kart, Wario Ware and Trauma Center had flooded the system already. I think a lot of people think the next Wii system/model will sell extreamly well with or without a lot of games but I am starting to seriously wonder. A lot of these new consumers are going to realize they are not gamers or think they are not because the Wii didnt do enough to keep their interest, and us hardcore gamers will be annoyed with Nintendo. Nintendo will have to completely re shift focus and earn back trust.

I think a good way of putting it is Nintendo really did create a Blue ocean. They created a gorgeous luscious environment that everyone flocked to take a look at.......the problem is that most of us responsible people went and swam someplace else while that part of the Ocean became a dumping ground for every toxic turd a company had no other place to put. By the time the next system comes the Blue ocean will be glowing green and lifeless.[/QUOTE]

You know what, The DS is getting better 3rd party support than the Wii.... The DS is the perfect Blueprint for where the Wii should be in terms of software. (as it was also the bases for the Wii hardware)The DS has a library of games that span from shovelware, to casual to hardcore, but when you look at the Wii... its lacking in the hardcore department.
 
All I know is that my Wii has given me quite a thrill between fun natured games like excite truck and epic adventures like Super Mario Galaxy.

Maybe my tastes are just really different, but I don't see the Wii as that much worse, if even worse, than the other 2. I own all 3. Not an extreme Nintendo fan, I just don't think any of the consoles are close to perfect.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']You know what, The DS is getting better 3rd party support than the Wii.... The DS is the perfect Blueprint for where the Wii should be in terms of software. (as it was also the bases for the Wii hardware)The DS has a library of games that span from shovelware, to casual to hardcore, but when you look at the Wii... its lacking in the hardcore department.[/QUOTE]

Exactly the DS is exactly what the Wii should be. Again I love Nintendo.....but I love them like I love any other thing in life, with an open mind to its flaws. The DS has gotten lots of great games from Nintendo and from third parties and guess what IT DID IT IN ITS FIRST 2 YEARS Ninny fans. As you said it has shovel stuff, it has hardcore, it has casual and it has everything in between. Even Nintendo themselves have released the casual stuff and you know what I think its brilliant because most of its QUALITY. The Wii that just isnt the case.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']When I say the novelty wears off I am not saying for people like me and you. We are gamers and a good game is a good game no matter what the graphics look like, what type of controller it uses or how old the game is. When I say the novelty wears off I am talking about people again like my mother in law, my uncle and my cousin. People that bought it and like I said buy a game or two a year play it for 3 days then forget they even own the damn thing.

You say the Wii is catching the rest of the populous up.....but how is it doing so if it isnt expanding their horizon nor holding their interest? Again everyone I know that is a gamer is pissed at how few good games the system has and the non gamers pick up stuff with Wii in the name or crap like carnival games and get the impression that THAT is gaming then loose interest.

Also you say with only 2 years into it. Well with 2 years into it it has the worst support of the 3 systems. With 2 years into it it has worse support then alot of past systems. And 2 years into it even Nintendo themselves are not pulling their own weight.

Finaly its a joke to say that MS is not branching out nor Sony. Sony hasnt done as well of a job but with a handfull of games on PSN and Singstar and home they are reaching out. MS has their own avatars, tons of kid friendly games like shrek, they have actually worked with small developers to get kid friendly games on XBLA then there is stuff like Lips. They haven't done it nearly as well as Nintendo or Sony has, but they didnt think it was a core market. Its no different then how Nintendo underestimated how important online is to the core gamer and is now trying to play catch up.

Again please stop making excuses for Nintendo. I dont make them for the other 2 systems.

Edit - And btw I dont mind being a minority. It is a good thing to be a hardcore gamer and in the minority it means our industry is doing well. What I have a problem with is gameplay being tossed under the boss.[/quote]

I'm not making excuses, I'm just stating what's happening before my eyes.

Nintendo makes a friendly system and gathers more people than any other, and games come to the system that's more kid friendly, more party friendly.

I'm not making excuses for anything, I just think it's silly to say that the reason that games aren't so great on the 360 and PS3 is because of the Wii.

Would it be a problem if some games like Excite Truck, Carnival Games, No more Heroes, FE, Baroque, Dokapon Kingdom, Zack & Wiki, Rayman, and Ghost Squad/House of the Dead 1&2.... were on other systems?

I agree that there are people that got a wii just to say they have one, but I know of plenty of people that still do play it. I have 2 nephews that can't get enough of it.

there is just too many games on the 360 & PS3 that don't actually cater to the kid crowd.

And just because there's Petz and Babyz doesn't mean squat, if the software isn't selling, then the hardware will fall. so far, I don't see a surge in used wiis in Gamestop yet.

I'm not a Wiinut either but I do believe that this topic is quite silly to argue about, with people that don't even own one on top of it. It's fine if the system doesn't fit you, or that the games you do want to play are on other systems, but to argue that the Wii is going to be the downfall??

I just don't see that happening.

[quote name='Thomas96']You know what, The DS is getting better 3rd party support than the Wii.... The DS is the perfect Blueprint for where the Wii should be in terms of software. (as it was also the bases for the Wii hardware)The DS has a library of games that span from shovelware, to casual to hardcore, but when you look at the Wii... its lacking in the hardcore department.[/quote]

I do agree here, if the Wii got the support that the DS has been getting, then this would be moot. I think there are alot of titles that truly could be ported over if some would try.

Any PSP-boy want to make a thread saying that all of the DS's easy childish games bringing down the state of gaming for handhelds?
 
[quote name='ninja dog']You don't even set the terms for your argument...it's not a question of whether or not Atlus/NIS sales are sustainable. It all depends on the cost of development.

People paint Atlus like some mom and pop operation and if you don't buy their newest game, regardless of quality, they'll flop over and die. That's just not how it is. On the other hand, no, they aren't as big as Epic Games.

but what's to prevent them from getting a 360 dev kit and making a game that looks slightly better than a PS2/Xbox game? It's not going to require a Halo-sized budget and all the RPGs are on the 360 this gen.

Oh, right. They've already done that. Even though the games are supposedly awful.

Persona 5 360 :drool:[/QUOTE]

Hell no PS3. I want 1080p native textures on it period with no compression and Lossless sound.

I definitely agree with your mom and pop point on Atlus. Atlus has been a commercial success in Japan for a while. Given this I imagine even modest sales in the US cover the localization costs and everything past that is icing on the cake. I mean Atlus is the new Square, in the sense of the SNES era one. I mean look at both FF4 and 6 when they were easily underproduced to the demands Square thought there were. SMT Nocturne was a big hit given the prices it went for on eBay. Now I think they may be underproducing just to reprint the games and make extra sales but they weren't with Nocturne.
Remember that even if an Atlus game does abysmally here once or twice it's not much since they're big in Japan and their development cost and more is easily covered by Japanese game sales.
edit: Xycury I'm not really that impressed by what I'm seeing on the DS frankly. I prefer the PSP more even with the ports here and there.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Hell no PS3. I want 1080p native textures on it period with no compression and Lossless sound.

I definitely agree with your mom and pop point on Atlus. Atlus has been a commercial success in Japan for a while. Given this I imagine even modest sales in the US cover the localization costs and everything past that is icing on the cake. I mean Atlus is the new Square, in the sense of the SNES era one. I mean look at both FF4 and 6 when they were easily underproduced to the demands Square thought there were. SMT Nocturne was a big hit given the prices it went for on eBay. Now I think they may be underproducing just to reprint the games and make extra sales but they weren't with Nocturne.
Remember that even if an Atlus game does abysmally here once or twice it's not much since they're big in Japan and their development cost and more is easily covered by Japanese game sales.
edit: Xycury I'm not really that impressed by what I'm seeing on the DS frankly. I prefer the PSP more even with the ports here and there.[/quote]

Well I'm envious on the PSP with it's ports too ;) But I think the library on the DS is wide and expanding always.

If that could be someone felt on the Wii, it would probably make things alot better.
 
[quote name='xycury']Well I'm envious on the PSP with it's ports too ;) But I think the library on the DS is wide and expanding always.
[/QUOTE]

The DS library has been a mixed bag for me. It's great for puzzlers. And late 2005 and 2006 had a lot of good 2D games-- a couple Metroidvanias, New Super Mario, Super Princess Peach etc. etc.

Since then it seems like all the really good games tend to fall heavily in the JRPG, SRPG, shooter (Contra 4, metal slug type games) and point and click adventure games. Lots of good quality games for sure, just unfortunately not in genres I personally enjoy.

But that said, I've never had any desire for a PSP. Mainly because I don't really need a portable, especially one that plays games similar to what are on the consoles as I mainly just play it at home. I bought a DS just for 2D platformers and puzzle games, not for portability.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Exactly the DS is exactly what the Wii should be. Again I love Nintendo.....but I love them like I love any other thing in life, with an open mind to its flaws. The DS has gotten lots of great games from Nintendo and from third parties and guess what IT DID IT IN ITS FIRST 2 YEARS Ninny fans. As you said it has shovel stuff, it has hardcore, it has casual and it has everything in between. Even Nintendo themselves have released the casual stuff and you know what I think its brilliant because most of its QUALITY. The Wii that just isnt the case.[/quote]

You and I seem to have very different memories of the DS launch.

Many of the movers and shakers from the DS launch were ports of Nintendo 64 games. Super Mario 64 DS springs to mind, as do Diddy Kong Racing and Ridge Racer DS (though Ridge Racer DS was far from being a top-of-the-list title, it still serves as an example). That's one of the reasons I find the complaints of GameCube ports so inane.

As far as shovelware is concerned, how many of the games that were released in the first year of the DS lifecycle were merely half-ass 2D or 3D games with a map on the second screen? And touch screen controls on the menus only?

That's the revolutionary new portable console that I remember. Graphics that reminded me of the N64 but grainier, and games that made no real use of what the interface offered.

There were some notable exceptions, as there always are, but rather than listing them with "but, but, but, those don't count" excuses, I'll leave them be. We all know which they are.

Now, without a doubt, the DS library is sensational. I own 29 DS titles. The DS' third-party support is outstanding, the games are outstanding, and controlling games with a stylus frickin' owns. But the DS has been out for twice as long as the Wii has, so it's not fair that you're sitting in your armchair demanding to know why Nintendo isn't doing for the Wii what they are doing with the DS.

They're doing the exact same thing. The strategies are the same, the support is the same, and the marketing is the same. The DS has seen one 3D Mario (which was a port of an N64 game), one 2D Mario (which was fantastic), one Mario RPG, one Mario Party, one Mario Kart, one Metroid game, one Zelda game, one WarioWare, and one Animal Crossing.But for some reason, while that's enough for the DS in its 4-5 years of existence, it's not enough for the Wii in half that time.

Just checking IGN's recent review's list, I see one obvious first-party title on the list, and it's a port of a SNES game: Kirby's Super Star Ultra.

The Wii is going to get to the same point as the DS. No, Nintendo - not any developer, even - is going to let all their secrets flow out onto the Internets to shut up the so-called hardcore gamers. That doesn't mean they don't have good stuff in the works. If you want to wait until that point to pick up a Wii, nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you decide now.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Wrong dmaul. You need a PSP for Gradius Collection, DJ Max Portable, Salamander Portable, Genso Suikoden 1 and 2, etc.[/QUOTE]

Nothing I would play there. Like I said about all I'd play on a portable are 2D platformers (new ones, no interest in replaying old games) and some puzzle games. On consoles I mainly just play FPS and western RPGs.

The PSP has a fine game line up, I just don't have any need for a second portable system. Especially one that plays mostly console-like games And I'd rather just play similar games (i.e. FPS) on the 360 than on a portable since I seldom take my DS outside of the house.
 
[quote name='Renaissance 2K']But the DS has been out for twice as long as the Wii has, so it's not fair that you're sitting in your armchair demanding to know why Nintendo isn't doing for the Wii what they are doing with the DS.
[/quote]

Again, to be fair the DS sucked for it's first year (2004) and from 2005 (its second year) the games really started to flow.

The Wii hasn't enjoyed that pick up in its second year, but maybe it's just slower and it will come next year. But I'm not optimistic and glad I didn't hold on to my Wii in hopes things would get better in terms of games that personally interest me.

The Wii is going to get to the same point as the DS. No, Nintendo - not any developer, even - is going to let all their secrets flow out onto the Internets to shut up the so-called hardcore gamers. That doesn't mean they don't have good stuff in the works. If you want to wait until that point to pick up a Wii, nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you decide now.
Click to expand...

I just don't share that optimism--at least not for third parties. With third party games selling poorly, and many major developers seemingly liking to push graphics edge and build robust online multiplayer into their games, I just don't see the Wii ever getting Major 3rd party games other than the odd port of medicore games (see Call of Duty 3 and World at War from Treyarch--while not getting CoD2 or CoD4 from Infinity Ward).

The Wii could sell a 100 million consoles and it's still going to be lacking in third party support, particularly in genres like FPS and western RPGs which are about all I play.

I could see it getting more support from Japanese third parties, particularly quirky games like No More Heroes since the development costs are low. So that could be great for people into that stuff. But the Wii's never going to be a console for folks like me that only pay AAA games in a couple of western dominated genres.

Again, nothing wrong with that as it's good to have variety in what the consoles offer, and silly to think of the Wii as a threat. We're not going to get less FPS games down the road because of the Wii's success, so it's silly for the "hardcore" to be worrying about this.
 
[quote name='xycury']I'm not making excuses, I'm just stating what's happening before my eyes.

Nintendo makes a friendly system and gathers more people than any other, and games come to the system that's more kid friendly, more party friendly.

I'm not making excuses for anything, I just think it's silly to say that the reason that games aren't so great on the 360 and PS3 is because of the Wii.

Would it be a problem if some games like Excite Truck, Carnival Games, No more Heroes, FE, Baroque, Dokapon Kingdom, Zack & Wiki, Rayman, and Ghost Squad/House of the Dead 1&2.... were on other systems?

I agree that there are people that got a wii just to say they have one, but I know of plenty of people that still do play it. I have 2 nephews that can't get enough of it.

there is just too many games on the 360 & PS3 that don't actually cater to the kid crowd.

And just because there's Petz and Babyz doesn't mean squat, if the software isn't selling, then the hardware will fall. so far, I don't see a surge in used wiis in Gamestop yet.

I'm not a Wiinut either but I do believe that this topic is quite silly to argue about, with people that don't even own one on top of it. It's fine if the system doesn't fit you, or that the games you do want to play are on other systems, but to argue that the Wii is going to be the downfall??

I just don't see that happening.



I do agree here, if the Wii got the support that the DS has been getting, then this would be moot. I think there are alot of titles that truly could be ported over if some would try.

Any PSP-boy want to make a thread saying that all of the DS's easy childish games bringing down the state of gaming for handhelds?[/QUOTE]

This is the problem. You are just looking at this through a kid stand point. Yet you were just arguing how many great games the wii had......you guys keep bouncing from point to point to try and defend the damn thing which shows just how craptacular its line up is. I know the system has a lot of great kid games but the 2 main points here have been 1. Nintendo isnt making enough games for the hardcore market anymore, nor doing enough to get third parties to. 2. By making a system that focuses so much on casuals and kids they could be doing long term hard to themselves and or the industry.

Again looking at your post to Thomas it shows how off topic you are getting and how you are ignoring most of my and others points. We are not saying that all the kid games are ruining the industry. We are saying the lack of adult/hardcore/quality titles are doing some kind of damage. Again the DS was brought up to prove our point not yours, that we are perfectly happy having a systems that is full of kid games....if it has other quality games too. Shit ill play "kid" games myself if they are good quality games. Nintendo made a platformer a few years ago featuring the Nick Toon gang that was suprisingly pretty good, the Tak games were meant for kids but not half bad and going way back in the day shit like Duck Tales and Chip and Dales Rescue Rangers owned all.

To one last time try and make it easy on you guys since you keep missing the point. The point isnt the abundance of crap and kid titles....its the lack of other quality titles and Nintendos shift in focus.

Xycury I'm not really that impressed by what I'm seeing on the DS frankly. I prefer the PSP more even with the ports here and there.
Click to expand...

Can you say graphics whore?

Many of the movers and shakers from the DS launch were ports of Nintendo 64 games. Super Mario 64 DS springs to mind, as do Diddy Kong Racing and Ridge Racer DS (though Ridge Racer DS was far from being a top-of-the-list title, it still serves as an example). That's one of the reasons I find the complaints of GameCube ports so inane.
Click to expand...

Yes that is true. Then the following year/year and a half it started to get flooded with games or atleast we knew about great titles taht were on the way. The Wii again has been out 2 years and we have not only not seen said great games.....but Nintendo hasnt even announced them nor have third parties. And again you guys made the same argument with the 360 but guess what....again we had seen or knew that Gears, Halo 3, Dead Rising, Mass Effect, Katamari and many many others were out or on the way. You guys keep trying to say just you wait and see it takes every system a long time to hit its stride yet the PS3 came out at the same time as the Wii and guess what....we have seen 2 Resistance games, Uncharted a Ratchet game + Xpack and know a lot of others like that big 108 man game, God of War etc have been shown. Even the PS3 is outpacing Nintendo which is absolutely pathetic.

The Wii is going to get to the same point as the DS. No, Nintendo - not any developer, even - is going to let all their secrets flow out onto the Internets to shut up the so-called hardcore gamers. That doesn't mean they don't have good stuff in the works. If you want to wait until that point to pick up a Wii, nobody's holding a gun to your head and making you decide now.
Click to expand...

Ummmmm keep holding on to that hope. If this is the case then why is it that last gen we knew about Mario Galaxy when it was still a GC game 2 years a head of time? WHy is it we knew about Zelda years ahead of time? Why is it we have known about FFXIII for years now? Or the new Halo Wars game or God of War. Its because developers show their stuff way ahead of time. Will Nintendo have a suprise title or 2? Yes because if they dont they wont have ANYTHING but Punch out at this point next year(though with how much they sucked last year I wouldnt be suprised).

I am sorry if it seems mean but go hug your wii and as you cry let this song loop in the background.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUs4kfuk48&feature=related

Thats all your doing is holding on to hope, you have abandoned logic and reason.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']2. By making a system that focuses so much on casuals and kids they could be doing long term hard to themselves and or the industry.
[/QUOTE]

They may do harm to themselves if all of a sudden these games stop selling. But they got their asses kicked the past two generations where they tried to focus on the same market as Sony and MS so they'd be much worse off if they hadn't made this change which has made them a shit ton of money.

Secondly, they are not going to harm the industry. I'm enjoying gaming the most I have since the SNES era as the 360 has so many games I love--i.e. great FPS games and great western RPGs. Also a nice variety of sports games, fighting games etc. for people into those and all the stuff on the XBLA. The PS3 line up isn't shabby at all either.

Yes we may see Sony and MS get developers to put out more kid friendly or casual games. But we're not going to see less, big budget games in FPS and other major genres. Just looking at the sales for Halo 3, GTAIV, Gears of War 2 et al. is enough to show that there's still a huge market for that and one that they're not going to ignore making money off of.

There's plenty of room in the industry for consoles/games focused at kids, families and casual/non-gamers and games focused at those of us that have been gaming for years and new generations who get into traditional games (some of who may get their start on casual games).
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']They may do harm to themselves if all of a sudden these games stop selling. But they got their asses kicked the past two generations where they tried to focus on the same market as Sony and MS so they'd be much worse off if they hadn't made this change which has made them a shit ton of money.
[/QUOTE]

Disagree. I dont think they were focusing on the same market at all. Sony had the Mass market of real hardcore gamers, children and the new "hardcore gamers" which are the frat boys that only play Madden/Halo and other shooters and sports titles. MS pretty much only had the frat boys with a small amount of the others tossed in. Nintendo had a strangle hold on the hardcore gamers and a fair size audience of children.

Going into this generation I thought Nintendo was going to be smart and try and expand their children and mass market appeal while sealing up the hardcore.....but we hardcore have gone ignored. I thought a smart stratagy would have been to contact small developers like Atlus and encourage them to take advantage of the Wii and how cheap and easy it is to make games. I thought Nintendo would flood the market with their own titles as well. But again all they have done is focus on 1 specific market which is never a good strategy long term. So no they didnt have nor try to focus on the same market.

Secondly, they are not going to harm the industry. I'm enjoying gaming the most I have since the SNES era as the 360 has so many games I love--i.e. great FPS games and great western RPGs. Also a nice variety of sports games, fighting games etc. for people into those and all the stuff on the XBLA. The PS3 line up isn't shabby at all either.
Click to expand...

I disagree again. Nintendo fans keep bragging about all the people that the Wii is bringing into gaming but here is the problem. Like I have stated they are buying something like Wii Fit then shelf their Wii for 6 months when they pick up some other fad game that lasts them 3 days before again the Wii gathers dust. Eventually like all fads they will grow jaded/tired of the thing and eventually realize that it really isnt something they care for. This isnt good for the industry because those people are not being converted into gamers....they are just joining into a cult which they will eventually leave. Again you guys need to stop acting like I am saying Nintendo is killing the industry because I am not....because they are not. There is a difference between denting a market like Nintendo is doing and killing the industry. Us hardcore gamers and these new frat boy and hip hop kids that buy all the sports titles and shooting titles will sustain the industry just fine and our industry will continue to draw new people by more proper method. Again my complaint with the Wii is that they are essentially burning a forest down to get 1 years good crops.
 
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