it sucks to work at EA?

This story isn't a surprise or shocking, lot sof big companies are sweatshops, software shops or otherwise. Hence the big craze in outsourcing....send a job to India, China or Russia where a low wage goes a LOT further and people "accept" that life is HARD, and as such working a 12 or 14 hour day just to make ends-meet is the *norm*.

Example:
Some companies offer flextime....some companies write you up with disciplinary actions if you're more than 2 minutes late more than once a month. It just depends on the environment you want to work in, and what personally bothers you. Some people thrive in that kind of structured environment, some people are apathetic to it, and others simply can't function in it.

Big companies attract the workaholic types, the John Carmack clones who don't mind spending their entire life chasing the elusive "code enhancement" or Bug-Chase.......I hear the movie industry is the same, any industry that involves mass-consumption of your product at the retail level.
 
[quote name='PapiChullo']I didn't feel like reading the OP. But it's kinda weird that people have so many bad examples of working at/for EA, especially since they have won awards for being one of the best companies to work for. I don't understand how this is possible if they treat their employees like shit.

BTW I did read like the first paragraph, and EA games' slogan is "Challenge everything", and they don't make sports games, just a little error there. That turned me off from the article/sob story/whatever it was from the get go. And EA will not be going down any time in the near future, it's just not possible with the amount of money they bring in year after year.[/quote]

I am in HR w/ Kaiser Permanente and I have my JD. Point is legally there is not much that can be done for salaried, exempt EEs. We conduct various surveys throughout the year (w/ People Pulse being the main one) and often times the EEs who have issues w/ the ER do not respond. Their non response skews the results and those who do consistently respond are non front line EES (managers) who are shall we say influenced to respond. That is why many companys are listed as the best company to work for. Coca Cola and Disney have appeared on these lists and there are horror stories of racial, gender and sexual discrimintation from both companies on a regular basis
 
[quote name='zionoverfire']Well I hate EA, I'm just amazed they work their staff that hard and all their games are still mediocre at best.[/quote]

You are correct about EA games being mediocre. There are only a few companies that really know how to polish off a game. EA isn't one of them. Burning out their employees won't remedy the situation either.
 
From expertlaw.com:

"There is an old joke that "an oral contract isn't worth the paper it's written on". That's a reference to the fact that it can be very difficult to prove that an oral contract exists. Absent proof of the terms of the contract, a party may be unable to enforce the contract or may be forced to settle for less than the original bargain. Thus, even when there is not an opportunity to draft up a formal contract, it is good practice to always make some sort of writing, signed by both parties, to memorialize the key terms of an agreement.

At the same time, under most circumstances, if the terms of an oral contract can be proved or are admitted by the other party, an oral contract is every bit as enforceable as one that is in writing. There are, however, "statute of fraud" laws which hold that some contracts cannot be enforced unless reduced to writing and signed by both parties. For more information on the Statute of Frauds, please see this associated article."

So a contract doesn't need to be written down to be enforceable. But again, we're not lawyers, let's not spend any more time discussing this.
 
The point is, if your employer breaks the oral contract, then quit and go somewhere else and stop being a goddamn crybaby. Life isn't fair, boo hoo. If your pampered prissy asses need a kick in the glory hole to figure that one out, then you deserve every bad thing that happens to you in life.

fucking-whiny-"i'll sue you"-crybaby-get something for nothing-bitches are what's making this country go down the toilet.

I need a drink.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']The point is, if your employer breaks the oral contract, then quit and go somewhere else and stop being a goddamn crybaby. Life isn't fair, boo hoo. If your pampered prissy asses need a kick in the glory hole to figure that one out, then you deserve every bad thing that happens to you in life.

shaq-fuing-whiny-"i'll sue you"-crybaby-get something for nothing-bitches are what's making this country go down the toilet.

I need a drink.[/quote]

It doesn't work that way. If you work much harder than what you're supposed to based on what your employer promises, you can't know in advance that you won't be compensated for your effort.

Honesty is key in business as well as personal relationships.
 
The article is dumb. IF an employer is mistreating you, why would you continue to work for them, especially if you are in a highly skilled position, such as a game programmer. Either, you are getting compensated well, or you aren't really being abused. Every profession has their hard times. I'm sure their programmers aren't working 80 hour weeks 52 weeks out of the year. So either stop whining, or just go get another job, simple as that.

Also, for the people that are saying that people blindly buy EA sports titles year, after year, that's bullshit. Personally, I tend to prefer EA Sports over Sega games, but I don't make my decision until I have played both. It's amazing how many fanboys Sega has picked up since they dropped their games to 19.99. Congrats.
 
I hate to sound like a cranky old man, but those of u defending EA on this are a bunch of pinheads. This situation is quite common in the IT field as well, and the solution is NOT as simple as saying "get another job." That just tells me that you kids don't have real jobs, or families to support.

Right to Work laws work both ways -- here is your class action lawsuit kids:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/11/news_6112998.html
 
They should be getting a union in there. The lawsuit is not going to work for them. They will lose. They choose to work for salary exempt. My guess is EA will settle out of court and be giving these people some sort of bonus. EA will not pay them hourly with overtime.
 
[quote name='eldad9'][quote name='bmulligan']The point is, if your employer breaks the oral contract, then quit and go somewhere else and stop being a goddamn crybaby. Life isn't fair, boo hoo. If your pampered prissy asses need a kick in the glory hole to figure that one out, then you deserve every bad thing that happens to you in life.

shaq-fuing-whiny-"i'll sue you"-crybaby-get something for nothing-bitches are what's making this country go down the toilet.

I need a drink.[/quote]

It doesn't work that way. If you work much harder than what you're supposed to based on what your employer promises, you can't know in advance that you won't be compensated for your effort.

Honesty is key in business as well as personal relationships.[/quote]

You are absolutely correct. When the employer breaks that 'promise' you SHOULD quit immediately and go somewhere else. When they cannot staff their projects, they will be forced to change their policies.

When you stay and continue to be abused, you are telling them it's ok to abuse you, keep going, I like it. When people keep buying a shitty product you send the message: I love this shitty product and I will keep buying it. Only when you stop buying it will they be forced to change it to survive.
 
[quote name='donssword']I hate to sound like a cranky old man, but those of u defending EA on this are a bunch of pinheads. This situation is quite common in the IT field as well, and the solution is NOT as simple as saying "get another job." That just tells me that you kids don't have real jobs, or families to support.

Right to Work laws work both ways -- here is your class action lawsuit kids:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/11/11/news_6112998.html[/quote]

There should not be any laws requiring anyone to employ you. It's your chouce to work somewhere. Just because you have certain skills, doesn't mean you are entitled to a particular job. It IS as simple as getting another job, that's how the "job market" works. Ever wonder why it's called that?

I'm not defending EA, I think it's horrible. So horrible everyone should quit and they can't come out with next years Madden, don't make a billion dollars and go bankrupt.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']I'm not defending EA, I think it's horrible. So horrible everyone should quit and they can't come out with next years Madden, don't make a billion dollars and go bankrupt.[/quote]

Please don't say that...I own stock in EA...

Jeremy
 
Yet another pissed off EA employee..

http://www.livejournal.com/users/joestraitiff/368.html

Makes me wonder if we should stop buying EA games to show support for the guys who made it. I feel sorry for these guys.. I mean, making gmaes is one of the things I've wanted to do.. but not under their conditions. I've skinned, textured and coded a bit.. but I couldn't do it 13 hours a day.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']
shaq-fuing-whiny-"i'll sue you"-crybaby-get something for nothing-bitches are what's making this country go down the toilet.

I need a drink.[/quote]

So, you're on the side of the programmers/artists/designers/audio engineers who gave EA something for nothing out of fear for their jobs? Great! I agree that exploitation of people *is* making this country go down the toilet.

Strange we agree, though - most of the time I think you're a complete idiot.

And yes, I *do* understand the point of your OP. I just don't think you do.

seppo
 
[quote name='helava'][quote name='bmulligan']
shaq-fuing-whiny-"i'll sue you"-crybaby-get something for nothing-bitches are what's making this country go down the toilet.

I need a drink.[/quote]

So, you're on the side of the programmers/artists/designers/audio engineers who gave EA something for nothing out of fear for their jobs? Great! I agree that exploitation of people *is* making this country go down the toilet.

Strange we agree, though - most of the time I think you're a complete idiot.

And yes, I *do* understand the point of your OP. I just don't think you do.

seppo[/quote]

No, I'm on the side of the programmers/artists/designers/audio engineers who decide they won't let EA take advantage of them anymore. There are two sides to this: The EA exploiters, and those who choose to be exploited. Yes, there is always a choice. You can choose NOT to mortgage yourself into a $400k house, NOT to drive that new BMW, and NOT to work for that bad old company that takes you for granted.

And I don't think of you at all until now, and have determined that you ARE a complete idiot. Apparently you are the one who doesn't understand the concept of freedom. Freedom to demand performance from your employees, freedom to exploit them to the best of your ability, freedom to enter into contracts, freedom to break them when they are unfair, freedom to quit and go somewhere else.

I'll bet the man is keeping you down, isn't he?
 
This is just me because I'm a cynical bastard but Wouldn't it be funny if he was dicking around on her and was saying he was at work to cover for it? Also as someone who worked 16 hours a day/ seven days a week for three months in Iraq I don't feel sorry for anybodies work schedule.
 
"It's like a sweat shop for adults. "

No thats SCEA. Its the same story as the first post but couple that with no benefits, job security and the atmosphere of a high school.
 
[quote name='jlarlee']This is just me because I'm a cynical bastard but Wouldn't it be funny if he was dicking around on her and was saying he was at work to cover for it? Also as someone who worked 16 hours a day/ seven days a week for three months in Iraq I don't feel sorry for anybodies work schedule.[/quote]

Not likely, I know people who work for MS, Intel, and TI. They are all overworked. 60-80 hrs a week overworked, but paid very well too. Kinda like doctors...
 
long hours are everywhere. my sister is a pharmacist. long hours. my friend is a doctor. long hours. i am a warehouse manager. long hours. you get the point.
 
Overtime and Cruching in the games industry is not only happening at EA, it's a problem for the whole industry. Companies are working on these problems by trying to lessen the crunch period by spreading out the workload. It's not unusual for designers, programmers, etc. to work 10 hour days for 5 days for the beginning of the development cycle. Then it gets closer, they might move to 16 hour days and maybe the occasional saturday. Crunch starts and they may make it 16 hours a day for 6 days a week and the occasional sunday. To help them get through it, management will get them some catered lunch so they can have a break. It's a tough industry to survive in since games are getting more complex and having shorter development cycles. People do tend to get burned out after a few years in the industry, which can hopefully be fixed.
 
The IGDA has responded with an open letter: http://www.igda.org/qol/open_letter.php

The reality is that there are game companies that have proven that a focus on quality of life can lead to great games, AND business success: BioWare, Firaxis, Team17, Blue Fang, Cyberlore and Ensemble are just a few of the studios that put as much effort on keeping their employees happy and healthy as on their bottom line. These, and other sensible companies, realize that a strong quality of life leads to more productive and creative workers. In turn, these workers produce better games, and stay in the industry to share their experience with all the passionate new recruits - helping to avoid common mistakes and recurring pitfalls. Further, they realize that driving their people into the ground is a short-term view that is not sustainable.

It is sadly ironic that those who strive for success at any cost don't realize that mature and responsible human resource and production practices will more readily bring them what they so desperately seek. That is to say, regardless of the humane imperative, maintaining a strong quality of life is just good business.
 
long hours are everywhere.
That may be, but long hours sans proper compensation are not. I work long hours as a paralegal, but I receive overtime pay. Making someone work long hours and giving them nothing in return is shaq-fued up, any way you slice it.

Also, I dunno if y'all know it, but this was covered in the New York Times this morning. Link below (registration required).

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/21/business/yourmoney/21digi.html?th
 
Some people don't know its a sweatshop to start with.

When u move your family across country for a job, ask your spouse to abandon their career to pursue your dream, buy a house, enroll your kids in school, and then find out your job suck the sweat off a camel's balls, you can't just walk out and quit.

You have a family to support.

And when u are working 80 hours a week, it is hard to fit in interviews with companies that are probably on the other side of the country.
 
[quote name='donssword']Some people don't know its a sweatshop to start with.

When u move your family across country for a job, ask your spouse to abandon their career to pursue your dream, buy a house, enroll your kids in school, and then find out your job suck the sweat off a camel's balls, you can't just walk out and quit.

You have a family to support.

And when u are working 80 hours a week, it is hard to fit in interviews with companies that are probably on the other side of the country.[/quote]

Ya know what? I still can't feel sorry for you if you go into something like this blindly. For such a major investment, wouldn't you ask around for input on what it's like to work there before taking such a job?

Would you buy a $400,00 house without investigating the floodplain, drainage, groundwater, taxes, and quality of the neighborhood would you? If you answer no, then you get what you deserve. Don't try to hide behind the old "but they told me this" argument. You have a responsibility in the matter before making such a life changing decision.

No, changing jobs is never easy, but who ever said life was supposed to be easy and come with a guarantee for everything? It's not, and it doesn't. You apologists need to wake up and take some responsibility for your own decisions, and stop excusing the bad decisions other people are making. The problem is that when someone makes a bad decision like working for EA, they need to do something about it instead of making everyone else bow to their demands. Life sucks sometimes, deal with it!
 
I think that our society is too obsessd with work. What's usually the first thing that someone asks you when they meet you: "What do you do for a living?" I meet too many people that take pride in saying they work 60+ hours a week. More power to them, but count me out.

I can attest that the job market for programmers is quite a bit tighter now than it was a couple of years ago. It seems like there is always a bunch of other guys that are willing to do your work for a fraction of your salary.

Switching careers is hard, because you will almost always experience a drop in salary when you switch. When you go from IT to Non-IT, the drop is especially large. This is the single biggest factor keeping me in my current profession.
 
I really don't know what to say about this at all.

One on hand, I worked a car job that demanded long hours, would dock you for a lunch break but wouldn't let you actually take a break, tried to steal your money all the time, have unpaid employee meetings, and just treat workers like crap. I simply quit that job and moved on because it was run by foreign conmen.

On the other hand, when you are preparing for a career, you would think a little research into the job would be done. Personally, I plan on teaching. The first thing I did was discover every possible angle. How would my days be? How would money be? What would I do during breaks? I know you didn't know about EA and their practices, but with such a large corporation, you could have surely found feedback reviews on working conditions from that job. You can't trust a magazine to tell you anything. Trust the individual reviews.

Don't get me wrong, I have been stuck in jobs I considered hell. But with a career, a little research is required. Of course it isn't foolproof, but it sounds like you went in there blindly. However, there is no law against seeking another job while employed by them.

And a poster a few posts ago mentioned how he feels no pity because our troops are out 24 hours a day 7 days a week in Iraq. Yeah I support the troops and all, but that is the risk of enlisting.......war. So don't throw around that holier than thou crap.
 
Whether or not you knew what you were getting yourself into is not the point.

EA, or any company for that matter, should not be allowed to make people regularly work 80 hours a week. If it is a true crazy crunch-time for a limited amount of time, then that is another story.

Labor laws were created for a reason.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Life sucks sometimes, deal with it![/quote]

Life doesn't suck, unless you let it.

I have to wonder if all the people who think "tough shit" enjoy their jobs and their lives?

I am lucky, good job, good life, but I have had the shit jobs, and often they are a means to an end, sometimes just for survival.

I moved to take a shit job once. I researched the company, had great interviews and everything checked out. But the 2nd week I was there I saw that it was a friggin nightmare, where account manager bent over backwards for the clients, and the owners were in constant screaming matches. I researched this place hard, and turned up nothing that indicated that was how the biz was run. I was told that OT was kept to a minimum, but found that I had to work at least 70 hours a week. TO cope, I took up heavy drinking -- in fact, several of us drank heavily after hours -- it was pretty damn funny.

I was trapped there for 6 months, desparately interviewing to get a new job. I got out, but I know people who were there longer than me and just put up with it, all for their own reasons.

The courts will decide on EA's case. We'll all see then...
 
What???? Its been 24 hours and no comments from CAGs who think EA employees are a bunch of whiny losers and should shut up or quit...

Funny thing... about EA admitting they need to change their process.

I don't imagine a pending law suit combined with public perception has anything to do with this...
 
Get your disgruntled EA employee t-shirt here.

15141821_F_tn.jpg


If it's too small to read, it says, "I worked 90 hours a week for EA, and I didn't even get this lousy t-shirt."

Thanks to SPOnG.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']They can't get a job anywhere else? How about changing professions, then?

This is similar to the pharmacist dilema of delivering drugs against their beliefs. If you don't like the job requirements, then go somewhere else. It''s the same everywhere else? Then find a different industry. Nobody is forcing you to be a game developer. The world needs sys admins, freelance, and small application programmers too.

I playing my violin for this woman who's husband has to work long hours. Boo hoo. Western settlers had to chop wood for 8 hours a day during the spring/summer in order to survive the winter. Then farm their land for another 8. And then hunt for their own meat. Give me a break you spoiled meat sacks, life doesn't cater itself to you. You must cater yourself for it.

If you really feel that bad about it, then stop buying EA games and stop working for them. They'll go out of business if the majority forces them. This shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. You guys do realize that capitalism is a form of democracy, right ? WE are the ones who decide whether companies exist or die.[/quote]

:x Come on man how can you be so mean? Would you tell a painter to take up music or a musician to write plays? Video games are ART, just like paintings, movies, music, poems, stories, etc. How can an artist bring himself to sell his abilites to mundane tasks? Its ART, MAN! How can a gamer like you tell a game maker to go to boring tech jobs? Tell me some job YOU have spent YEARS to prepare for, then tossed it away to work at something else.

I do think that your comparison with old times is irrelevant. Chopping wood and hunting is EXCERSISE! This natural phenomenon causes us to feel good and relieve stress. Of course it wasn't laid back and peacfull 24/7 back then, but being worked 90 FREAKING HOURS A WEEK is STRESS!!! Stress is POISON.

Chopping wood and hunting means what you sow is what you reap. Programming for a bloated game company full of FAT UGLY beurocrats is sowing for somebody else's reaping. Those greedy B******* called CEOs take all the fruits of your labor and THEN they don't even acknowledge your presense, much less thank you for the private jet and bodyguards they have. And what do they do? Make up stupid rules, drive everybody like SLAVES, try to solve problems that they don't know how to solve, making it worse, etc.

Alright, you do have a point, bmulligan. We the people decide which companies live and which ones die. As long as this treatment of employees continues, I will NOT buy another EA game. As far as work goes, I'm a programmer, and I have no formal job.


Here's an idea: Let's start our OWN game company. Let's SPLIT the profits FAIRLY. And let's have NO FAT CEOS. We rule ourselves, and anybody who wants a management job can kiss my @$$!!! The people that lead projects must KNOW game developement. Designers, Artists, Programmers, Musicians. ONLY people who make games are allowed to work in our company. And I would love to publish our games on cheapassgamer.com FIRST.

I realize that we have a few problems with this idea. One is that profit sharing means we have to support ourselves or find sponsers who can support us until we start profitting. But we have to be extra carefull that we are not taken over if we take sponsors. As for myself, I will not require financial support during startup. A second problem is competition. I don't expect to be at the top from the get-go, but we can start small. I have seen many low-production-cost games made that people love. How about Alien Hominid? They didn't even make 3D graphics, and people buy it for consoles :D. Original ideas go far, and with all the gamers on this site, we could have many AWESOME designers with us!

What do you say? We can set our own hours, work at our own pace, and reap the benifits of our own fruit. Working part-time at a "normal" job is ok too. Thanks to the internet, we don't have to move either. Video conferencing, etc works nicely.

Anybody who loves games and wants to work for his/her own gaming company (we all own it) just email me (megabytea1[AT]yahoo.com). Sorry, we can't have beta testers YET, but you can still submit your name (just email me) and we'll see when we can fit you in. We'll set up a web site & message board to organize our company, then we'll get down to business :).

As for the poster of this anti-EA, I give my sympathy for your husband. I fear that he may get full burn out from his overworked status. If everyone who works in game developement as EA feels this way, then I recommend a strike. If everyone leaves at the same time, then anybody new they hire will have MUCH trouble resuming the projects. It will cause utter chaos if they don't meet the workers' demands. If you don't know anything about programming, know that trying to understand some one else's source code is NOT easy, even with lots of comments. Especially when EVERYONE will have to learn ALL the source code, etc. They have to meet the demands of the strike or risk severe production delays.

Since many people who want to be in our new company already have game-related jobs, our relaxed pace should be enough to help us start, without heaping on too much extra stress. Thanks everybody for reading this, I know it's long, but i needed to get the point across.
 
[quote name='m3gabyte']
Come on man how can you be so mean? Would you tell a painter to take up music or a musician to write plays? [/quote]

I'd tell them to flip burgers and clean out garbage cans if that's how they had to feed their family.


Tell me some job YOU have spent YEARS to prepare for, then tossed it away to work at something else.

I have worn many hats. The nice thing about human beings is that we have the ability to adapt. Those that don't, die. Darwins law.

I do think that your comparison with old times is irrelevant. Chopping wood and hunting is EXCERSISE! This natural phenomenon causes us to feel good and relieve stress. Of course it wasn't laid back and peacfull 24/7 back then, but being worked 90 FREAKING HOURS A WEEK is STRESS!!! Stress is POISON.

Go smoke a another joint, hippie.
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='m3gabyte']
Come on man how can you be so mean? Would you tell a painter to take up music or a musician to write plays? [/quote]

I'd tell them to flip burgers and clean out garbage cans if that's how they had to feed their family. [/quote]

Whatever. you know as well as i do that cleaning garbage cans won't pay off a student loan, and flipping burgers doesn't feed a family.

[quote name='bmulligan']
Tell me some job YOU have spent YEARS to prepare for, then tossed it away to work at something else.

I have worn many hats. The nice thing about human beings is that we have the ability to adapt. Those that don't, die. Darwins law.[/quote]

Yeah, but maybe you never went to college to get your "hats", so you could change jobs at will, albeit mostly low wage jobs.

[quote name='bmulligan']
I do think that your comparison with old times is irrelevant. Chopping wood and hunting is EXCERSISE! This natural phenomenon causes us to feel good and relieve stress. Of course it wasn't laid back and peacfull 24/7 back then, but being worked 90 FREAKING HOURS A WEEK is STRESS!!! Stress is POISON.

Go smoke a another joint, hippie.[/quote]

Hippie? Is that what you call anyone who doesn't believe in the "every man for himself" mentality? Only a Darwin's law fanatic like yourself can't see the value of human life. AND DARWIN HIMSELF DENOUNCED IT! Get your head out of the sand: people care about each other, and that's why we respond to the ea_spouse's problem.

The point is, because of the ea_spouse and several other people who voice their problem at EA, there is a class-action lawsuit being organized. Of course you think that it would be even easier to just switch jobs, but you don't understand that every human thinks differently. Many people take their career as their identity. You can't convince them it's not, and why are you trying?

Why not just try to end the immense brain-washing that comes from television? You're not going to get it done here, for sure. The serfs of the Dark Ages were physically enslaved, and the modern world average guy is mentally enslaved. Freeing someone from that bond is NOT easy, but many good actors have freed themselves already. And yes, I know they almost always start out doing various low-wage jobs before they become famous.

But if you still embrace the cold-hearted "survival of the fittest", then perhaps you are not free either....
 
[quote name='m3gabyte'][quote name='bmulligan']They can't get a job anywhere else? How about changing professions, then?

This is similar to the pharmacist dilema of delivering drugs against their beliefs. If you don't like the job requirements, then go somewhere else. It''s the same everywhere else? Then find a different industry. Nobody is forcing you to be a game developer. The world needs sys admins, freelance, and small application programmers too.

I playing my violin for this woman who's husband has to work long hours. Boo hoo. Western settlers had to chop wood for 8 hours a day during the spring/summer in order to survive the winter. Then farm their land for another 8. And then hunt for their own meat. Give me a break you spoiled meat sacks, life doesn't cater itself to you. You must cater yourself for it.

If you really feel that bad about it, then stop buying EA games and stop working for them. They'll go out of business if the majority forces them. This shit doesn't happen in a vacuum. You guys do realize that capitalism is a form of democracy, right ? WE are the ones who decide whether companies exist or die.[/quote]

:x Come on man how can you be so mean? Would you tell a painter to take up music or a musician to write plays? Video games are ART, just like paintings, movies, music, poems, stories, etc. How can an artist bring himself to sell his abilites to mundane tasks? Its ART, MAN! How can a gamer like you tell a game maker to go to boring tech jobs? Tell me some job YOU have spent YEARS to prepare for, then tossed it away to work at something else.

I do think that your comparison with old times is irrelevant. Chopping wood and hunting is EXCERSISE! This natural phenomenon causes us to feel good and relieve stress. Of course it wasn't laid back and peacfull 24/7 back then, but being worked 90 FREAKING HOURS A WEEK is STRESS!!! Stress is POISON.

Chopping wood and hunting means what you sow is what you reap. Programming for a bloated game company full of FAT UGLY beurocrats is sowing for somebody else's reaping. Those greedy B******* called CEOs take all the fruits of your labor and THEN they don't even acknowledge your presense, much less thank you for the private jet and bodyguards they have. And what do they do? Make up stupid rules, drive everybody like SLAVES, try to solve problems that they don't know how to solve, making it worse, etc.

Alright, you do have a point, bmulligan. We the people decide which companies live and which ones die. As long as this treatment of employees continues, I will NOT buy another EA game. As far as work goes, I'm a programmer, and I have no formal job.


Here's an idea: Let's start our OWN game company. Let's SPLIT the profits FAIRLY. And let's have NO FAT CEOS. We rule ourselves, and anybody who wants a management job can kiss my @$$!!! The people that lead projects must KNOW game developement. Designers, Artists, Programmers, Musicians. ONLY people who make games are allowed to work in our company. And I would love to publish our games on cheapassgamer.com FIRST.

I realize that we have a few problems with this idea. One is that profit sharing means we have to support ourselves or find sponsers who can support us until we start profitting. But we have to be extra carefull that we are not taken over if we take sponsors. As for myself, I will not require financial support during startup. A second problem is competition. I don't expect to be at the top from the get-go, but we can start small. I have seen many low-production-cost games made that people love. How about Alien Hominid? They didn't even make 3D graphics, and people buy it for consoles :D. Original ideas go far, and with all the gamers on this site, we could have many AWESOME designers with us!

What do you say? We can set our own hours, work at our own pace, and reap the benifits of our own fruit. Working part-time at a "normal" job is ok too. Thanks to the internet, we don't have to move either. Video conferencing, etc works nicely.

Anybody who loves games and wants to work for his/her own gaming company (we all own it) just email me (megabytea1[AT]yahoo.com). Sorry, we can't have beta testers YET, but you can still submit your name (just email me) and we'll see when we can fit you in. We'll set up a web site & message board to organize our company, then we'll get down to business :).

As for the poster of this anti-EA, I give my sympathy for your husband. I fear that he may get full burn out from his overworked status. If everyone who works in game developement as EA feels this way, then I recommend a strike. If everyone leaves at the same time, then anybody new they hire will have MUCH trouble resuming the projects. It will cause utter chaos if they don't meet the workers' demands. If you don't know anything about programming, know that trying to understand some one else's source code is NOT easy, even with lots of comments. Especially when EVERYONE will have to learn ALL the source code, etc. They have to meet the demands of the strike or risk severe production delays.

Since many people who want to be in our new company already have game-related jobs, our relaxed pace should be enough to help us start, without heaping on too much extra stress. Thanks everybody for reading this, I know it's long, but i needed to get the point across.[/quote]

I'm sorry, but you didn't fulfill the process requirements for the creation of statement of opinion. I belive you'll have to have to retake your ISO training and we'll have to run this opinion back through the process definition process.
 
[quote name='m3gabyte'][quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='m3gabyte']
Come on man how can you be so mean? Would you tell a painter to take up music or a musician to write plays? [/quote]

I'd tell them to flip burgers and clean out garbage cans if that's how they had to feed their family. [/quote]

Whatever. you know as well as i do that cleaning garbage cans won't pay off a student loan, and flipping burgers doesn't feed a family.

[quote name='bmulligan']
Tell me some job YOU have spent YEARS to prepare for, then tossed it away to work at something else.

I have worn many hats. The nice thing about human beings is that we have the ability to adapt. Those that don't, die. Darwins law.[/quote]

Yeah, but maybe you never went to college to get your "hats", so you could change jobs at will, albeit mostly low wage jobs.

[quote name='bmulligan']
I do think that your comparison with old times is irrelevant. Chopping wood and hunting is EXCERSISE! This natural phenomenon causes us to feel good and relieve stress. Of course it wasn't laid back and peacfull 24/7 back then, but being worked 90 FREAKING HOURS A WEEK is STRESS!!! Stress is POISON.

Go smoke a another joint, hippie.[/quote]

Hippie? Is that what you call anyone who doesn't believe in the "every man for himself" mentality? Only a Darwin's law fanatic like yourself can't see the value of human life. AND DARWIN HIMSELF DENOUNCED IT! Get your head out of the sand: people care about each other, and that's why we respond to the ea_spouse's problem.

The point is, because of the ea_spouse and several other people who voice their problem at EA, there is a class-action lawsuit being organized. Of course you think that it would be even easier to just switch jobs, but you don't understand that every human thinks differently. Many people take their career as their identity. You can't convince them it's not, and why are you trying?

Why not just try to end the immense brain-washing that comes from television? You're not going to get it done here, for sure. The serfs of the Dark Ages were physically enslaved, and the modern world average guy is mentally enslaved. Freeing someone from that bond is NOT easy, but many good actors have freed themselves already. And yes, I know they almost always start out doing various low-wage jobs before they become famous.

But if you still embrace the cold-hearted "survival of the fittest", then perhaps you are not free either....[/quote]

While you do have a point, I haven't heard as much pretentious ranting since the second Matrix movie.
 
[quote name='JSweeney']
While you do have a point, I haven't heard as much pretentious ranting since the second Matrix movie.
[/quote]

pre·ten·tious ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-tnshs)
adj.

1. Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.
2. Making or marked by an extravagant outward show; ostentatious. See Synonyms at showy.


I suppose you mean definition 2? Sorry, I do get carried away sometimes. lol I guess I did ramble on a bit too much :).
 
[quote name='donssword']found this link on GamerDad.com:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/

EA: The Human Story [Nov. 10th, 2004|12:01 am]
My significant other works for Electronic Arts, and I'm what you might call a disgruntled spouse.

EA's bright and shiny new corporate trademark is "Challenge Everything." Where this applies is not exactly clear. Churning out one licensed football game after another doesn't sound like challenging much of anything to me; it sounds like a money farm. To any EA executive that happens to read this, I have a good challenge for you: how about safe and sane labor practices for the people on whose backs you walk for your millions?

I am retaining some anonymity here because I have no illusions about what the consequences would be for my family if I was explicit. However, I also feel no impetus to shy away from sharing our story, because I know that it is too common to stick out among those of the thousands of engineers, artists, and designers that EA employs.

Our adventures with Electronic Arts began less than a year ago. The small game studio that my partner worked for collapsed as a result of foul play on the part of a big publisher -- another common story. Electronic Arts offered a job, the salary was right and the benefits were good, so my SO took it. I remember that they asked him in one of the interviews: "how do you feel about working long hours?" It's just a part of the game industry -- few studios can avoid a crunch as deadlines loom, so we thought nothing of it. When asked for specifics about what "working long hours" meant, the interviewers coughed and glossed on to the next question; now we know why.

Within weeks production had accelerated into a 'mild' crunch: eight hours six days a week. Not bad. Months remained until any real crunch would start, and the team was told that this "pre-crunch" was to prevent a big crunch toward the end; at this point any other need for a crunch seemed unlikely, as the project was dead on schedule. I don't know how many of the developers bought EA's explanation for the extended hours; we were new and naive so we did. The producers even set a deadline; they gave a specific date for the end of the crunch, which was still months away from the title's shipping date, so it seemed safe. That date came and went. And went, and went. When the next news came it was not about a reprieve; it was another acceleration: twelve hours six days a week, 9am to 10pm.

Weeks passed. Again the producers had given a termination date on this crunch that again they failed. Throughout this period the project remained on schedule. The long hours started to take its toll on the team; people grew irritable and some started to get ill. People dropped out in droves for a couple of days at a time, but then the team seemed to reach equilibrium again and they plowed ahead. The managers stopped even talking about a day when the hours would go back to normal.

Now, it seems, is the "real" crunch, the one that the producers of this title so wisely prepared their team for by running them into the ground ahead of time. The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). This averages out to an eighty-five hour work week. Complaints that these once more extended hours combined with the team's existing fatigue would result in a greater number of mistakes made and an even greater amount of wasted energy were ignored.

The stress is taking its toll. After a certain number of hours spent working the eyes start to lose focus; after a certain number of weeks with only one day off fatigue starts to accrue and accumulate exponentially. There is a reason why there are two days in a weekend -- bad things happen to one's physical, emotional, and mental health if these days are cut short. The team is rapidly beginning to introduce as many flaws as they are removing.

And the kicker: for the honor of this treatment EA salaried employees receive a) no overtime; b) no compensation time! ('comp' time is the equalization of time off for overtime -- any hours spent during a crunch accrue into days off after the product has shipped); c) no additional sick or vacation leave. The time just goes away. Additionally, EA recently announced that, although in the past they have offered essentially a type of comp time in the form of a few weeks off at the end of a project, they no longer wish to do this, and employees shouldn't expect it. Further, since the production of various games is scattered, there was a concern on the part of the employees that developers would leave one crunch only to join another. EA's response was that they would attempt to minimize this, but would make no guarantees. This is unthinkable; they are pushing the team to individual physical health limits, and literally giving them nothing for it. Comp time is a staple in this industry, but EA as a corporation wishes to "minimize" this reprieve. One would think that the proper way to minimize comp time is to avoid crunch, but this brutal crunch has been on for months, and nary a whisper about any compensation leave, nor indeed of any end of this treatment.

This crunch also differs from crunch time in a smaller studio in that it was not an emergency effort to save a project from failure. Every step of the way, the project remained on schedule. Crunching neither accelerated this nor slowed it down; its effect on the actual product was not measurable. The extended hours were deliberate and planned; the management knew what they were doing as they did it. The love of my life comes home late at night complaining of a headache that will not go away and a chronically upset stomach, and my happy supportive smile is running out.

No one works in the game industry unless they love what they do. No one on that team is interested in producing an inferior product. My heart bleeds for this team precisely BECAUSE they are brilliant, talented individuals out to create something great. They are and were more than willing to work hard for the success of the title. But that good will has only been met with abuse. Amazingly, Electronic Arts was listed #91 on Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work For" in 2003.

EA's attitude toward this -- which is actually a part of company policy, it now appears -- has been (in an anonymous quotation that I've heard repeated by multiple managers), "If they don't like it, they can work someplace else." Put up or shut up and leave: this is the core of EA's Human Resources policy. The concept of ethics or compassion or even intelligence with regard to getting the most out of one's workforce never enters the equation: if they don't want to sacrifice their lives and their health and their talent so that a multibillion dollar corporation can continue its Godzilla-stomp through the game industry, they can work someplace else.

But can they?

The EA Mambo, paired with other giants such as Vivendi, Sony, and Microsoft, is rapidly either crushing or absorbing the vast majority of the business in game development. A few standalone studios that made their fortunes in previous eras -- Blizzard, Bioware, and Id come to mind -- manage to still survive, but 2004 saw the collapse of dozens of small game studios, no longer able to acquire contracts in the face of rapid and massive consolidation of game publishing companies. This is an epidemic hardly unfamiliar to anyone working in the industry. Though, of course, it is always the option of talent to go outside the industry, perhaps venturing into the booming commercial software development arena. (Read my tired attempt at sarcasm.)

To put some of this in perspective, I myself consider some figures. If EA truly believes that it needs to push its employees this hard -- I actually believe that they don't, and that it is a skewed operations perspective alone that results in the severity of their crunching, coupled with a certain expected amount of the inefficiency involved in running an enterprise as large as theirs -- the solution therefore should be to hire more engineers, or artists, or designers, as the case may be. Never should it be an option to punish one's workforce with ninety hour weeks; in any other industry the company in question would find itself sued out of business so fast its stock wouldn't even have time to tank. In its first weekend, Madden 2005 grossed $65 million. EA's annual revenue is approximately $2.5 billion. This company is not strapped for cash; their labor practices are inexcusable.

The interesting thing about this is an assumption that most of the employees seem to be operating under. Whenever the subject of hours come up, inevitably, it seems, someone mentions 'exemption'. They refer to a California law that supposedly exempts businesses from having to pay overtime to certain 'specialty' employees, including software programmers. This is Senate Bill 88. However, Senate Bill 88 specifically does not apply to the entertainment industry -- television, motion picture, and theater industries are specifically mentioned. Further, even in software, there is a pay minimum on the exemption: those exempt must be paid at least $90,000 annually. I can assure you that the majority of EA employees are in fact not in this pay bracket; ergo, these practices are not only unethical, they are illegal.

I look at our situation and I ask 'us': why do you stay? And the answer is that in all likelihood we won't; and in all likelihood if we had known that this would be the result of working for EA, we would have stayed far away in the first place. But all along the way there were deceptions, there were promises, there were assurances -- there was a big fancy office building with an expensive fish tank -- all of which in the end look like an elaborate scheme to keep a crop of employees on the project just long enough to get it shipped. And then if they need to, they hire in a new batch, fresh and ready to hear more promises that will not be kept; EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%. This is how EA works. So now we know, now we can move on, right? That seems to be what happens to everyone else. But it's not enough. Because in the end, regardless of what happens with our particular situation, this kind of "business" isn't right, and people need to know about it, which is why I write this today.

If I could get EA CEO Larry Probst on the phone, there are a few things I would ask him. "What's your salary?" would be merely a point of curiosity. The main thing I want to know is, Larry: you do realize what you're doing to your people, right? And you do realize that they ARE people, with physical limits, emotional lives, and families, right? Voices and talents and senses of humor and all that? That when you keep our husbands and wives and children in the office for ninety hours a week, sending them home exhausted and numb and frustrated with their lives, it's not just them you're hurting, but everyone around them, everyone who loves them? When you make your profit calculations and your cost analyses, you know that a great measure of that cost is being paid in raw human dignity, right?

Right?[/QUOTE]
i 100% agree with you on this article my husband is working there right now and it it awful they have this huge book of promises that they give you in the begining of all teh benefits you will get and how wonderful it is to work there its bullshit. my kids and i barely see ym husband and your right about the months and months of crunch time first it was 2 weeks then a month then months pass by and still they want more time dont pay over time and my husband was hired as a prt right out of college to work for them and a a promise of a full time possition was supposed to be in his future now 9 days away from his " supposed" fulltime position he gets a call to come in for a mettign and was so nicely told that someone has with more expreince took the postion he was promised and that youcan only work prt for a year so he now has 9 days to find a new job with wife and 2 kids at home. after allt eh long hours and bullshit you put up with no over time pay no bonuses like promised no medical bs it is. they have everything calculated legally so when you get a raise your in the bottom of a very high tax bracket and see 50 a month what kind of raise it that . its called a big company making billions of treating there employees like shit. and anothe thing if your not there 14 hours out of the day hangin out socializing with every other nerd in there your not cooperating its like allt he nerds in highschool trying to be there cool people its awful anywas enough of my bullshit as you can tell i am pissed read teh fine print people read the fine print .
 
Holy shit... a revived thread from before I joined!

Might actually be something I read later, even though it's almost two years old. :D
 
[quote name='Othergods']My friend use to work at Tiburon, the Orlando division of EA and that is the reason he left, they offered him a huge pay increase when he gave his notice and he still left. [/QUOTE]

I am SO glad I didn't get that job offer at Tiburon back in Dec of 2000 after what you just told me. Yea i was kinda depressed that I was fresh out of college and didn't get that offer, but hell Im so glad now :)
 
Ok I'm sick of the new American way of bitching and moaning. KNOW YOUR RIGHTS! The new American way is to bitch and moan and ask others to do your dirty work. Instead of crying on the internet the disgruntled employees need to exercise their rights.

You have the legal right to join or support a union and to:

* Attend meetings to discuss joining a union
* Read, distribute, and discuss union literature, as long as you do this in non-work areas during non-work times, such as breaks or lunch hours
* Wear union buttons, T-shirts, stickers, hats, or other items on the job
* Sign a card asking your employer to recognize and bargain with the union
* Sign petitions or file grievances related to wages, hours, working conditions, and other job issues
* Ask other employees to support the union, to sign union cards or petitions, or to file grievances.

Action speaks louder then words any day of the week.

I'm not taking EA's side by any means but if everything that is said is true then the employees will have no problems starting a union with their coworkers.
 
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