John Kerry is making the most badass and awesome speech ever.

Holy carp. I am reading about it on CNN.com and other news sites from Google news. Can't wait to see all the reactions to this.

"You know, education -- if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well.

"If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Kerry was supposed to say, "I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."
 
Why wasn't he this defiant last year? Anyway...

This is a nonstory. It's a screwed up joke, but those 29% of the people who still support this president won't believe a single thing, and swear up and down that John Kerry hates the troops and wants the terrorists to win (just like all Democrats).
 
[quote name='ananag112']Holy carp. I am reading about it on CNN.com and other news sites from Google news. Can't wait to see all the reactions to this.

"You know, education -- if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well.

"If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Kerry was supposed to say, "I can't overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq."[/QUOTE]

I'm sure that's not what he meant, but given that poor choice of words how exactly is this the best speech ever? I agree with Myke, this is really not new and differnet at all, looking at the media coverage it hasn't done much of anything. It's all just seemingly more political rhetoric from both sides, it won't change anyone mind that's for sure...
 
John Kerry can be a great speaker when he wants to be. The speech he made before the State of the Union Address last year (I believe) was great. If he had said in that speech on the campaign trail I think he probably would have won the presidency ( since it was a semblance of a plan on how to get out of Iraq that was actually outlined and not just a bunch of one liners and rhetoric).
 
Its nice that Kerry mangles a line during a speech. How many times has Bush done that? 100? 200? 500 times?

Seriously, he should not run for president again. Let another Democrat run instead. To quote Bill Paxton in Aliens: "Its over man...game over!!"
 
John Kerry = asshole. What stupid thing to say. And I heard what he said. It was not in jest, as he falsely tried to claim as a backtrack.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']John Kerry = asshole. What stupid thing to say. And I heard what he said. It was not in jest, as he falsely tried to claim as a backtrack.[/QUOTE]

If we accept that he did NOT misspeak, (1) suggesting that higher education is a way out of military service isn't that controversial a thing to say; it's no small secret that economic privilege benefits people by providing them resources so they don't seek military service for lack of other viable options, and (2) if viewed in that context, it isn't a backwards way of saying "soldiers are stupid" (and I think anyone suggesting that's what he was saying is a fool and a liar).

Regardless of how you view it, it was, at best, an extremely tasteless joke. A tasteless joke remniscent of, say, George Bush's "where are those WMDs?" sketch from a few years back.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/26/bush.wmd.jokes/index.html
 
[quote name='ananag112']

"You know, education -- if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well.

"If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

[/quote]

:bomb:

nice way to call all our soldiers dumbasses.
 
[quote name='gaelan']:bomb:

nice way to call all our soldiers dumbasses.[/QUOTE]
so he is calling himself a dumbass?

critical thinking skills are good, BS is bad.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']so he is calling himself a dumbass?

critical thinking skills are good, BS is bad.[/quote]

is kerry stuck in iraq? then i guess he's not calling himself a dumbass. maybe he should replace iraq with vietnam in his next speech (assuming anyone gives him a mic again), so he can be one of the soldiers referenced and therefore offended.

he did however portray the men and women who are serving and have served in iraq as uneducated people who weren't able to successfully make an effort to be smart, hence their position in iraq.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']A tasteless joke remniscent of, say, George Bush's "where are those WMDs?" sketch from a few years back.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/26/bush.wmd.jokes/index.html[/quote]

That's typical, the old "Sure, we said something stupid, callous, and insulting towards the people risking their lives for our country, but do YOU remember the time when so and so said something kinda like that too? So, that makes it ok!"
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']That's typical, the old "So, that makes it ok!"[/QUOTE]

Not what I said at all. Rather, I'm only suggesting the outrage is directed at the letter in parentheses next to the person who said it.
 
The difference is that Bush definitely clearly meant that comment as an admittedly tasteless joke. However I'm not convinced Kerry really did misspeak especially since he has yet to apologize.
 
[quote name='dopa345']I'm not convinced Kerry really did misspeak especially since he has yet to apologize.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I get the logic behind that. I can see him not apologizing if he did misspeak, since the intent of his 'joke' was mangled and subsequently misinterpreted in a way that he did not intend (thus no need for apology). But not apologizing doesn't suggest to me that he meant what he said (that there wasn't another line for the joke).
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If we accept that he did NOT misspeak, (1) suggesting that higher education is a way out of military service isn't that controversial a thing to say; it's no small secret that economic privilege benefits people by providing them resources so they don't seek military service for lack of other viable options, and (2) if viewed in that context, it isn't a backwards way of saying "soldiers are stupid" (and I think anyone suggesting that's what he was saying is a fool and a liar).
[/QUOTE]

I think he did just misspeak, but if you do view it in that context have to consider that a good number of people in the armed forces have a higher education and even more are trying to earn money to get one. The problem with that economic privilege theory is he didn't say if you were too poor you'd end up in Iraq, he said if you were lazy in the educational realm you would. If he didn't misspeak was, at least in a roundabout manner, calling today's military lazy and uneducated, despite the point that many are college grads or college bound. Again I don't think he was and the backlash is campaign boosting nonsense, but he did open the door for it all, misspoken or not...
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell']I think he did just misspeak, but if you do view it in that context have to consider that a good number of people in the armed forces have a higher education and even more are trying to earn money to get one. [/QUOTE]

But, to be fair, an even greater number of troops are undereducated making his statement true.
 
[quote name='niceguyshawne']But, to be fair, an even greater number of troops are undereducated making his statement true.[/quote]

are you just guessing or do you have a link with facts that back up your statement?

about kerry, he said it. he should apologize. until he does, i'm assuming the worst. he blew the election last time, who thought that giving this guy a microphone would result in something good. he is a loser and needs to go the way of the gore.
 
Praise Jeebus it doesnt really matter what gaelan thinks.

There is no question of what he meant to say and very little contention on how he actually came across.

Rightards just need something to talk about in a way to deflect blame from themselves.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm not sure I get the logic behind that. I can see him not apologizing if he did misspeak, since the intent of his 'joke' was mangled and subsequently misinterpreted in a way that he did not intend (thus no need for apology). But not apologizing doesn't suggest to me that he meant what he said (that there wasn't another line for the joke).[/QUOTE]

So you never apologize if you inadvertently make a bonehead comment to someone that you didn't mean to say?

I respect Kerry since he's put his time in the military and had a distinguished career but that makes it even more surprising that he's been so inflexible on apologizing.
 
:baby:

Sorry, but voters aren't going to overlook Dubya's failed Iraq policy, Katrina mismanagement, and Foley/Abramoff and numerous other scandals over a misstatement. I believe this pic sums it up:

voting-republican-because.jpg
 
[quote name='dopa345']So you never apologize if you inadvertently make a bonehead comment to someone that you didn't mean to say?[/QUOTE]

True enough. At this point in time, it would be an implicit admittance that is problematic. If he apologized, people would take it to mean he meant to say troops aredumb; if he made a caveat-laden apology (immensely popular with politicians), people would call him insincere. I wish he'd apologize for attempting to make a terrible joke (both the joke and what it turned out to be), but if he won't, he won't.

Duo_Maxwell, I very much agree with your last post. Well said.
 
Did you people miss the so-called apology where he dismisses his comment as a botched attempt at a joke of the administrations policies? Then launches into victim mode claiming he's being attacked by those dirty republican campaign trickery tactics. Boo Hoo.

Sorry, there's enough to 'joke' about without bringing our armed service volunteers into your bad comedy routine. There's simply no excuse for what he said whether he botched a 'joke' or not.

What's more amusing than Kerry's stand-up performance is the usual CAG suspects rushing to apologize for him faster than a republican apologizing for a bush administration gaffe. Too bad the other Democrats aren't on board your pep rally party wagon and are cancelling Kerry appearences as we speak.
 
I'm sorry, but how does a minimum wage increase help anyone but the unions? Didn't we have this discussion several months ago, where facts were presented that most people who start at minimum wage are above it within a couple of months?

If you want to really help people out, provide child care, not $.40 more an hour.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I'm sorry, but how does a minimum wage increase help anyone but the unions? Didn't we have this discussion several months ago, where facts were presented that most people who start at minimum wage are above it within a couple of months?

If you want to really help people out, provide child care, not $.40 more an hour.[/QUOTE]

People in Unions make well above minimum wage, which is kind of the point.
 
Their wages are usually directly tied to XXX amount over minimum wage, so they automatically get a pay increase...which is generally why Democrats are so quick to call for one.

Giving an extra half-dollar to the fry kings at McD's are going to help them buy an extra case of beer a week, nothing more.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Their wages are usually directly tied to XXX amount over minimum wage, so they automatically get a pay increase...which is generally why Democrats are so quick to call for one.

Giving an extra half-dollar to the fry kings at McD's are going to help them buy an extra case of beer a week, nothing more.[/QUOTE]

I haven't the slightest as to how we got from the OP to here, but if you consider a paycheck based on $5.15 (less than McJobs pay, to be sure), at 40 hours per week, you're grossing $204.40 a week. That measly half dollar (larger than most annual raises in the foodservice industry, but I digress will net them an additional $20 gross per week, or a just-a-touch-under 10% increase in their gross income. 10% ain't nothin to complain about.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Their wages are usually directly tied to XXX amount over minimum wage, so they automatically get a pay increase...which is generally why Democrats are so quick to call for one.

Giving an extra half-dollar to the fry kings at McD's are going to help them buy an extra case of beer a week, nothing more.[/QUOTE]


As opposed to what tax breaks for wealthy stockbroker cokefiends?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']If we accept that he did NOT misspeak, (1) suggesting that higher education is a way out of military service isn't that controversial a thing to say; it's no small secret that economic privilege benefits people by providing them resources so they don't seek military service for lack of other viable options, and (2) if viewed in that context, it isn't a backwards way of saying "soldiers are stupid" (and I think anyone suggesting that's what he was saying is a fool and a liar).

Regardless of how you view it, it was, at best, an extremely tasteless joke. A tasteless joke reminiscent of, say, George Bush's "where are those WMDs?" sketch from a few years back.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/26/bush.wmd.jokes/index.html[/quote]

OK, myke, so let's say I buy into the idea that Kerry's comment, though incredibly pathetic, is somehow not that bad because Bush said something similarly tasteless.

Does that mean that Mark Foley's behavior is OK because Gerry Studds (D), unlike Foley, actually followed through with his thoughts and openly admitted having sex with an underage male page?

Or, is this kind of like the time when the dems were "outraged" and Trent Lott for having the audacity to say he would have voted for strom Thurman at any time in his political career, (the dems went nuts because strom was known to have run on a segregation platform in his past), but the sudden silence when a democrat says pretty much the EXACT same thing about Robert KKK byrd? (Former kleagle of the KKK, and known opponent of the civil rights act, MLK, and pretty much anything that didn't look, sound, or act white for the majority of his tenure in politics).

I know you stated that your comment was intended to show that people are more outraged at the D next to Kerry's name more than his comments, but really myke, do you honestly think for a second that if a R said something to the tune of "stay in school and get a degree, or else you'll wind up in Iraq" people would just look at the statement and say, oh well, he's tough on immigration, so let's let it slide?

In short, both sides of the street have people who do and say dumb shit, (take Rush limbaugh for example), and the more we allow their idiocy to slide by pretending it's OK because a republican did it is kind of like me thinking that driving drunk behind the wheel, crashing a car into a body of water, saving myself as the passenger drowns, stumbling home and not reporting the incident to police (choosing instead to call my lawyer first) until the next day while the girl slowly suffocates to death, is the kind of moral fiber people look for in a state senator.

But that's just me, I don't know about you guys.
 
irak.jpg



In all seriousness, I guess I do have to be a tad on the stupid side to be attending college just to be shipped over there in a year and a half (give or take). I'm making it through my classes with relative success l though, so I ain't can't not be to dum.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I haven't the slightest as to how we got from the OP to here[/QUOTE]

More the campaign slogans the hard-left supporters and liberal canidates want to tout: Raise the Minimum Wage.

Like I said, most people make above minimum wage. You raise it, they are that much lower (because if you think Wally World or McD's is going to give them a cost of living increase to compensate, you're dead wrong. It's a matter of perspective. Been there, done that.
 
I don't understand how anyone could interpret what he said as anything but an attack on Bush. I mean, when I saw it, it was clear to me that he was saying that Bush had no idea what he was doing and was using education/school as a sort of metaphor for his lack of understanding on how to wage a successful war in Iraq.
 
[quote name='evanft']I don't understand how anyone could interpret what he said as anything but an attack on Bush. I mean, when I saw it, it was clear to me that he was saying that Bush had no idea what he was doing and was using education/school as a sort of metaphor for his lack of understanding on how to wage a successful war in Iraq.[/QUOTE]

No shit, but it is possible to bash Bush and call him an idiot WITHOUT calling american servicemen dumbasses, or not smart enough to do well in school or in life.

An even more idiotic thing to do would be to use your apology speech to make an even biger ass of yourself instead of just saying "sorry" and moving on.

All he had to do was say "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that - our service people are the smartest, strongest millatary people in the world." It would have been a non-story and everyone would have forgotten about it already. BUT NOOOOOO, Kerry had to go and make a bigger ass of himself in the process.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']It would have been a non-story and everyone would have forgotten about it already.[/QUOTE]

Nope. Not 6 days from an election that's gonna throw the bastards out.
 
well if the american public is anything like my office, the the dems are screwed. even the most liberal person in my office was embarassed. its all i heard today. like it or not the american public associates kerry with dems and now dems with believing the military is full of idiots. it might not be what kerry meant and the republican right wing crazies are spinning this to its fullest but the bottom line is IT IS WORKING. the fact that kerry will not apologize is just fuel to the fire...and its not just refusing to apologize, its making it a point of the refusal.
 
[quote name='gaelan']well if the american public is anything like my office, the the dems are screwed. even the most liberal person in my office was embarassed. its all i heard today. like it or not the american public associates kerry with dems and now dems with believing the military is full of idiots. it might not be what kerry meant and the republican right wing crazies are spinning this to its fullest but the bottom line is IT IS WORKING. the fact that kerry will not apologize is just fuel to the fire...and its not just refusing to apologize, its making it a point of the refusal.[/QUOTE]

And what was your office like, politically, on Monday morning, before all this?
 
I don't have enough faith in modern politics to believe that any speech a politician (or political party tool) reads is their own writing.
 
[quote name='gaelan']well if the american public is anything like my office, the the dems are screwed. even the most liberal person in my office was embarassed. its all i heard today. like it or not the american public associates kerry with dems and now dems with believing the military is full of idiots. it might not be what kerry meant and the republican right wing crazies are spinning this to its fullest but the bottom line is IT IS WORKING. the fact that kerry will not apologize is just fuel to the fire...and its not just refusing to apologize, its making it a point of the refusal.[/QUOTE]

It is not even what he said, let alone meant.

The dumbest thing Kerry did was making any kind of apology whatsoever.

He should not say anything to people who willfully misconstrue what he said.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']And what was your office like, politically, on Monday morning, before all this?[/quote]
not happy with bush, but firm supporters or our troops


[quote name='Msut77'] It is not even what he said, let alone meant.

The dumbest thing Kerry did was making any kind of apology whatsoever.

He should not say anything to people who willfully misconstrue what he said.[/quote]

i understand what he meant versus what he said. my point is that a large percentage of the voting public heard the negative and made judgement that will affect the dems popularity. its just business as usual...there is a shocking statement or press release, the news blows it up, people react without considering the details, and then they forget in 2-3 weeks or until the next major "news" story hits. if people can get over the president getting head from an intern, then this to shall pass into the abyss of the publics short term memory.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Did you people miss the so-called apology where he dismisses his comment as a botched attempt at a joke of the administrations policies? Then launches into victim mode claiming he's being attacked by those dirty republican campaign trickery tactics. Boo Hoo.

Sorry, there's enough to 'joke' about without bringing our armed service volunteers into your bad comedy routine. There's simply no excuse for what he said whether he botched a 'joke' or not.

What's more amusing than Kerry's stand-up performance is the usual CAG suspects rushing to apologize for him faster than a republican apologizing for a bush administration gaffe. Too bad the other Democrats aren't on board your pep rally party wagon and are cancelling Kerry appearences as we speak.[/QUOTE]

I'm still waiting for Dubya to apologize for his "where's the WMDs?" joke. I guess it was just funny when there were only 500 troops killed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3570845.stm
 
Keith Olbermann made a huge 10 minute commentary blasting Repubs and Bush. While I found some stuff insightful, I didn't agree with every single word. Entertaining, though.
 
Oh, one other thing: Kerry's comments are only rallying the GOP faithful. Voters have already made up their minds by now who they're voting for.
 
[quote name='gaelan']not happy with bush, but firm supporters or our troops




i understand what he meant versus what he said. my point is that a large percentage of the voting public heard the negative and made judgement that will affect the dems popularity. its just business as usual...there is a shocking statement or press release, the news blows it up, people react without considering the details, and then they forget in 2-3 weeks or until the next major "news" story hits. if people can get over the president getting head from an intern, then this to shall pass into the abyss of the publics short term memory.[/QUOTE]

So the Republican strategy is to rely on the uninformed?

Lovely.
 
[quote name='Msut77']So the Republican strategy is to rely on the uninformed?

Lovely.[/quote]

i don't know what the republican strategy is, but i think that applies to politics in general
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Keith Olbermann made a huge 10 minute commentary blasting Repubs and Bush. [/QUOTE]

How is that different from every other show he does? That's like saying O'Rielly bashed some democrats then spent 20 minutes pluggin some god awful John Gibson book. I gotta say I saw that one coming.

[quote name='camoor']If the troops buy the Republican spin on this, then they are idiots.[/QUOTE]

That's not what they want (or probably care about) though. They aren't really selling the spin to them (well at least not for the most part), they are trying to sell it to "average Joe voter" the working class guy/gal that is typically disinterested in poltics save for moments like these where they feel "personally affected". I'm not sure how many will buy it besides those they've already got in their corner, but I am sure sure that's who they really want to buy the spin. Those and to rally their regular supporters to all get out on Tuesday, yada, yada, yada...
 
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