killing puppies - how is this freedom of speech

[quote name='benjamouth']Yeah totally, puppies are cute and awesome, most people are fat, ugly and stupid.[/QUOTE]

Hey now. I may be fat and ugly, but I are very edumacated. Thank you very much.:razz:
 
[quote name='arcurifisher']I've defended every violent video game, pritty much ever, but I just saw something in a game that is beyond wrong. In Red Dead Remption you can capture, kill and then skin puppies. How can I remotely begin to defend that... I think this may finally be the game that gets pulled from shelves.. So wrong in so many ways..[/QUOTE]

So killing kids, killing men and women, running over people with a car, steal peoples cars, cutting off heads, burning people, commiting genocide, sex, rape, massive amounts of cursing, selling drugs, buying drugs, commit robbery, beat innocent people up, using drugs, nudity and all of that is ok in games but killing dogs isnt? You do know this is just a video game right? This isnt real life.

And here in lies the problem with stuff like this. Everyone thinks video game violence is perfectly ok and will defend it, as long as it stays within their tolerable limits. Your ok with the other stuff Im sure because if you played most any game in the past 5 years you have done one of the things I mentioned above. But as soon as you find something you dont like then its suddenly not ok and you feel you have to go out and tell other people its not ok.

I mean cattle, pigs, chickens are killed and skinned everyday for us to eat in real life but have you ever complained about them?

Bottom line is unless were all going to play peggle, tetris and bejeweled then no one has any right to complain about a games content. If you can have one kind of violence in one game but not another kind in a different game then your a hypocrit. Because either its all ok or none of its ok.
 
I watched "The Road" last night and guess what? I don't give a rat ass about skinning puppies or making puppy soups.

You guys making a mountain out of mole hills. It's sad that in the US, it's always about the issues that are not really issues in other countries...

Save the whales and yet can't get enough of whale products.
Save the cute polar bears and yet let the ugly endangered rhinos die.
Save the lab animals and yet blowing up labs with scientists in them.

Do us a favor? When you're a saint, then come back and complaint. Otherwise, just enjoy the damn game.

I just checked the trophies/achievements, one of them is to kill one of every animal. Again, i don't give a rat ass. Too graphical? Well, it's a game and you don't have to do it.

MW2's airport mission is more shocking than anything i have ever played and guess what? i didn't fire a single bullet. To me, human lives are above everything else. If i have to save lives, i save human lives. Rest assured, I will not eat humans, i will eat bugs, gods, cats before i eat my own kind. Same goes with skinning...

I had a hard time getting the perfect crime trophy in Heavy Rain, you know why? I just couldn't set
Madison on fire
. It was a painful death :whistle2:( (i just left the game on and came back in 10 minutes).
 
[quote name='arcane93']Ok, that settles it -- one of the first things I'm doing when I get the game is trying to skin a horse, just to see if I can. :lol:
[/QUOTE]

Ahahahahaha . . . Looks like someone else already beat me to it!

From http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?pager.offset=1&cId=3179335&p=:

I'm sincerely and pleasantly surprised that I can shoot my own horse in the back of the head while I'm riding him, and even skin him afterward.
Click to expand...
 
OMG this is worse than Rapelay!!!

Won't someone please think of the virtual puppies?

We should pass a LAW to ban the virtual torture and dismemberment of virtual animals. Especially CUTE ones!

Maybe we can pass a virtual law?
 
i was extremly against getting this game, just because i hate the thought of skinning puppies. i still am but after seeing a review for it i think i've changed my mine, and everyone does have a good point. if you don't like it don't do it, and like 80% of the xbox game i have include shooting peoples faces off. but it's not so much the killing of people / animals in the game it more the skinning of them, that just seems sick. everyone who'se played call of duty has most likly killed the dogs, but still skinning them?
 
[quote name='gargus']So killing kids, killing men and women, running over people with a car, steal peoples cars, cutting off heads, burning people, commiting genocide, sex, rape, massive amounts of cursing, selling drugs, buying drugs, commit robbery, beat innocent people up, using drugs, nudity and all of that is ok in games but killing dogs isnt? You do know this is just a video game right? This isnt real life.

And here in lies the problem with stuff like this. Everyone thinks video game violence is perfectly ok and will defend it, as long as it stays within their tolerable limits. Your ok with the other stuff Im sure because if you played most any game in the past 5 years you have done one of the things I mentioned above. But as soon as you find something you dont like then its suddenly not ok and you feel you have to go out and tell other people its not ok.

I mean cattle, pigs, chickens are killed and skinned everyday for us to eat in real life but have you ever complained about them?

Bottom line is unless were all going to play peggle, tetris and bejeweled then no one has any right to complain about a games content. If you can have one kind of violence in one game but not another kind in a different game then your a hypocrit. Because either its all ok or none of its ok.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if it has to be all or nothing at all. For years there have been parental codes, game warnings, game ratings because there are levels of violence -- its a scale.

There's something in my view unsettling with regard to senseless violence in a game. Is that different than MW2 where people are shooting people, hard to say. But people react to senseless violence.
 
[quote name='bsesb2003']I don't know if it has to be all or nothing at all. For years there have been parental codes, game warnings, game ratings because there are levels of violence -- its a scale.

There's something in my view unsettling with regard to senseless violence in a game. Is that different than MW2 where people are shooting people, hard to say. But people react to senseless violence.[/QUOTE]

Yes it should be all of nothing. Either all violence in games is ok or none of its ok.

People dont react when you run over a innocent woman walking down the street, or when you blow up a building with people that didnt do anything and those are acts of senseless violence. But kill a baby or a puppy and suddenly the game is an abomination and should be banned.

People only care about what they care about, they way to often like something but soon as its beyond their acceptibility then its wrong.

If your going to have violence in videos games then no one should have the right to bitch about whatever level its at. You can not like it, thats fine and then you dont buy it or play it but dont go bitching to others they are wrong for liking the exact same thing you are only on a different level. If its ok to pull a guy out of his car, beat him to death while cursing, steal his car and then run him over with the car then its ok to skin dogs in another game.

What I think some people seem to forget mostly though ITS A fuckING VIDEO GAME. Its not real, its fake, its make believe, no one is getting hurt. And the kicker is if you dont like it, then dont fucking buy it and dont fucking play it. It really is that easy. Just because you dont like something doesnt mean it should be banned or others shouldnt play it.

If everyone would keep their thoughts to themselves and just let others be this would be a hell of alot nicer world.
 
[quote name='timesplitt']i hope the OP knows that somewhere in africa dogs are used as fish hook bait!![/QUOTE]

Or that is China some dogs are raised to be eaten and one Dim Sum place actually served human meat.
 
[quote name='jab1235']but it's not so much the killing of people / animals in the game it more the skinning of them, that just seems sick. [/QUOTE]

[quote name='bsesb2003']There's something in my view unsettling with regard to senseless violence in a game.[/QUOTE]

But there is a point to it, though. The fur and leather trades were a very important part of the economics of the old west . . . Guess how they got that fur and leather? Now, sure, they could have only allowed you to skin "sanctioned" animals -- rabbits, deer, bears, whatever -- but limiting it that would take away a lot of the realism of it. If, in your attempt to recreate the old west in full, you're going to build in the ability to skin an animal, it's really better to allow it for all animals, and leave it up to the player to decide.

That being said, I'm seriously hoping that they carried that realism all the way, and if you ride into town and throw down a pile of puppy skins on the fur trader's table, he'll act with the appropriate level of revulsion to match the reaction that people would really have, and your reputation will take the appropriate hit. With real world mechanics should come real world consequences.

[quote name='gargus']What I think some people seem to forget mostly though ITS A fuckING VIDEO GAME. Its not real, its fake, its make believe, no one is getting hurt.[/QUOTE]

The only problem with that theory is that, while for the vast majority of us it is just a video game, there are some few people out there for whom it could be a stepping stone to real-life animal cruelty. Unfortunately that becomes a very slippery slope to argue, because by that line of thought, any violent action in any video game could become a violent action to mimic in real life for some sick person. Personally, I'm of the line of thought that someone who would be prone to animal cruelty (or whatever violent act you want to talk about) will come to it anyway, on their own, with or without the game. But, of course, there's always the possibility, no matter how slim, that the game could be the catalyst or stepping stone that brings it out. It's all a matter of deciding whether that limited risk bothers you enough to want to take that game away from everybody. Obviously, I'm of the mindset that doesn't think it should be censored, but I can see where the concern could come from.
 
Arcane93, with the reasonable response. Yarr!

The level of revulsion over the skinning of animals is a little... odd, here. My perspective is obviously heavily biased - son of a fur trapper - but damn, I really hope you folks getting all upset about skinning animals are vegetarians.
 
[quote name='TheIconGuy']Anyone alert PETA yet?[/QUOTE]

I am sure it is only a matter of time. They are the same people that found Cooking Mama offensive.
 
[quote name='omgilag']Or that is China some dogs are raised to be eaten and one Dim Sum place actually served human meat.[/QUOTE]

Mmmmmmm human.:drool: It tastes like chicken.;)
 
Soylent Green. Nuff said.

But yeah, like I said before, its just a game, I'm not gonna take it seriously, and I work at a humane society to help animals find good homes and to ease the passing of ones who are sick or to violent and harmful to be released back into the public. Its so simple to simply point fingers. Granted im not trying to derail the thread, simple saying that as many have said, and as I have said, this is how it was done back then, so..yeah.
 
OP, it's a video game. It's not real life. You wouldn't go around shooting everybody in real life, that's why you do it in a game.

Plus, there are far worse things than skinning puppies in RDR. Such as kidnapping people and putting them on the train tracks >:)
 
i haven't even remove the plastic wrapper yet... i got the game on Tuesday too. I think it's an atrocity to skin a sealed game in the collector's community.
 
I haven't skinned any puppies, but the skinning of deer and rabbits is done very tastefully. I can't imagine it's any different.
 
Yesterday I started playing and skinned a dead horse. Really by accident. Anyway, I didn't seem to actually show anything at all. You just see the same dead horse and it says you got a horse skin and some other stuff. I was able to sell it. Not sure if that's the case for all animals, but at least for horses, unless I just missed it, you see nothing at all.

EDIT: and regarding not killing kids/babies... I seemed to see that in Bioshock. Sure they're zombie-ish, but it was obviously put in there for shock value, as the kids love that kind of stuff. I could have done without it, but it wasn't what stopped me from playing. It was my backlog that killed the cat. EDIT2: to be clear, there was nothing graphic about it in Bioshock. Screen fades type stuff.
 
According to my stats I've killed over 800 men in the 10 hours of playtime. You can hogtie and then execute women after dragging them from your horse for miles. You're mad that you can *optionally* kill and skin a fucking dog. Shut up, asshole.
 
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Now, i have problem with dragging people to death... Killing 800 people with guns and bombs in a game is normal, but dragging by horse kills? I hope there's no trophy/achievement for dragging kills...
 
[quote name='crunchewy']Yesterday I started playing and skinned a dead horse. Really by accident. Anyway, I didn't seem to actually show anything at all. You just see the same dead horse and it says you got a horse skin and some other stuff. I was able to sell it. Not sure if that's the case for all animals, but at least for horses, unless I just missed it, you see nothing at all.[/QUOTE]

There's the pink skinned carcass on the ground for whatever animal you just killed but that's about it. Having read about the skinning issue before playing the game, I was expecting worse. I suspect that many of the people who are upset about the skinning mechanic in the game haven't actually seen it in action.

If it matters to anyone, you don't just get the skin from the animal, you also get meat which is presumably put to use as food.

Finally, my questing for money got the best of me in RDR last night when I was hunting a fox only to be ambushed and killed by a pair of boars.

Mother Nature - 1
John Marston in my hands - 0
 
yummy!

koreadogmeatu.jpg
 
[quote name='Thorgouge']According to my stats I've killed over 800 men in the 10 hours of playtime. You can hogtie and then execute women after dragging them from your horse for miles. You're mad that you can *optionally* kill and skin a fucking dog. Shut up, asshole.[/QUOTE]
I have yet to drag anyone behind my horse, but I just learned how to use the lasso just before game froze this morning. So maybe I'll drag and hogtie someone to the railroad tracks just for shits and giggles later on.

The first time I started playing through the game(Tuesday night)I did like the one reviewer said you could do. I shot my horse in the back of the head as I rode along on him, then I jumped off the carcass and skinned him.:evil:

But then I deleted that game save and started fresh last night, only to have the fuckin' game freeze about 2-3 hours in.:bomb:

They better fix the damned freezing issue and preferably soon.

For those concerned about the skinning thing, they don't show the knife skinning the animal. There's a bunch of blood spatters on the screen and you can hear some of the sickening sounds from the skinning though. But they do show you the skinned animal carcass laying on the ground after you're done though.
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']They better fix the damned freezing issue and preferably soon.[/QUOTE]

They've got multiple issues that they need to fix. I just accepted my first duel. I walk toward the duel point, there's nothing on the road. The duel starts, and suddenly there's a fucking horse right between me and the guy I'm dueling with. I can't see him at all. So I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my first time at the dueling controls, and I can't actually see my target. I shoot, and the horse reacts like I've apparently hit it. The guy I'm dueling against (again, on the other side of the horse -- in theory he shouldn't be able to see or hit me either) shoots, and suddenly I'm dead. It then proceeds to take me back to the last point where I saved, which, since (at least at the point I'm currently at) it's not possible to save without also sleeping for eight hours at the ranch, was also about 40 minutes of play time earlier.

If they can't fix these goddamn bugs quickly, they'd better at the very least fix it so that it's possible to save more often. Cool as the game is, I'm going to lose interest very quickly if I keep losing that much progress like that, particularly if it's because of fucking bugs.
 
[quote name='arcane93']They've got multiple issues that they need to fix. I just accepted my first duel. I walk toward the duel point, there's nothing on the road. The duel starts, and suddenly there's a fucking horse right between me and the guy I'm dueling with. I can't see him at all. So I'm trying to figure out what's going on with my first time at the dueling controls, and I can't actually see my target. I shoot, and the horse reacts like I've apparently hit it. The guy I'm dueling against (again, on the other side of the horse -- in theory he shouldn't be able to see or hit me either) shoots, and suddenly I'm dead. It then proceeds to take me back to the last point where I saved, which, since (at least at the point I'm currently at) it's not possible to save without also sleeping for eight hours at the ranch, was also about 40 minutes of play time earlier.

If they can't fix these goddamn bugs quickly, they'd better at the very least fix it so that it's possible to save more often. Cool as the game is, I'm going to lose interest very quickly if I keep losing that much progress like that, particularly if it's because of fucking bugs.[/QUOTE]
Are you playing this on PS3 or 360? If on PS3, then what model console? I'm on the slim and I'm about to try restoring my file system to see if that abates the freezing issue, as it did in GTA IV.

If the freezing continues to happen though and they don't address all of these issues quickly enough, I'm going to be very tempted to forgo getting the next Rockstar title till it's $20 and buying it USED and fuck them(and the glitchy horse they rode in on).
 
[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']Are you playing this on PS3 or 360? If on PS3, then what model console? I'm on the slim and I'm about to try restoring my file system to see if that abates the freezing issue, as it did in GTA IV.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, PS3, 80gb (well, originally, before I upgraded the hard drive) fat. Fortunately I haven't seen any freezing yet, though a bug that results in death is pretty much just as annoying.

[quote name='IAmTheCheapestGamer']If the freezing continues to happen though and they don't address all of these issues quickly enough, I'm going to be very tempted to forgo getting the next Rockstar title till it's $20 and buying it USED and fuck them(and the glitchy horse they rode in on).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that was pretty much my thought too.
 
This is an M-rated game. There is A LOT of graphic imagery in this game, so don't be surprised that you see stuff like skinned puppies somewhere down the line. It is very random, I give them that.
 
Our media will depict every sick and depraved act and situation it can image, all under the guise of it being "entertainment". Like they say, "there is a market for everything". Some sickos out there probably get a kick out of it. But in this case, it's just the developer pushing the boundaries again to be the shock rock of the industry. I draws attention to the product, and makes them more money.
 
[quote name='punklivz']i guess the puppies were really the wolves?[/QUOTE]

I have seen dogs wandering around in the towns. I'm pretty sure they were all full-grown, though, not "puppies".
 
Also, it's a crime to kill the dogs in the towns (I believe the bounty is 5 dollars for animal slaughter) and they are the only dogs I saw ever.
 
Maybe they thought that the Foxes were puppies? I thought at first they were baby Coyotes. But once you get a good look at them you can tell they are not.
 
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