Kincect Success = The End of Harcore Gaming??

[quote name='dmaul1114']Yep, but to be fair, all they have to do with film is slap on subtitles for multiple languages.

But honestly, I don't see why that can't happen with games. The only localization that's absolutely needed is putting the menus in multiple language and having subtitles for dialogue and in game text (signs etc) into multiple languages.

They could do that a lot cheaper and quicker than finding new voice actors, localizing plots in some games etc.[/QUOTE]
Changing the plots= changing the game. Not quite the same as simply adding in subtitles to get a game out in Germany asap for example.
[quote name='budsmoka']Yeah Square started making FPS games oh wait.... JRPGs don't get made as much anymore because people realized how shitty they were. Instead of playing a JRPG you're better off watching anime. You can still get your fill of a shitty soap opera minus the hours of grinding and random battles.[/QUOTE]
LOL.
Random battles suck. JRPG is stagnant though I think.
[quote name='dmaul1114']That could be true for my immersion gripe. But doesn't help with my laziness with gaming and just wanting to slouch on the couch, pound some beers and chill out. :D Much easier to do that with pushing buttons than having to flail/waggle.



Yeah, but all the control schemes from Atari through today (sans Wii and PC) where sticks (or d-pads) and buttons. So control really didn't undergo any major transformation.

Going from Gamepads to no controller with kinnect is a MUCH more dramatic change than going from the Atari sticks to the NES gamepad, or from the dpads of the 16 bit era to the analog sticks of the 3D era etc.

Also, the move to analog sticks was necessitated by the move to 3D gaming. 3D gaming wouldn't work well with d-pads.

There's no need for motion controls in traditional 3D games IMO. They're just a gimmick--just like the current 3D fad in movies. Just a novelty that make things feel fresh for some, but don't improve the quality of the game/movie IMO.

Now games like Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc. require motion controls--and that's where they should be used--new genres based around the idea.

But I don't think they need forced on to FPS, WRPGs etc. If they have to be there, make them like Mario Kart and Smash Brothers were there is a traditional control option--just like I can go see Toy Story 3 in 2D. No need to make it an either or thing IMO.[/QUOTE]
3D TV is a fad...
 
[quote name='IceBlueShoes']Changing the plots= changing the game. Not quite the same as simply adding in subtitles to get a game out in Germany asap for example.
[/QUOTE]

I was saying they should do it like movies and just slap on subtitles and not change the plots, get new voice actors etc.

The Otakus that love anime and JRPGs etc. always bitch about the changes made to localize JRPGs for the western world anyway.

Cut out all the time and cost and just change the language in the menus and slap on subtitles where needed. Lowers the risk for them in porting the game, and most JRPG fans would be happy with that anyway--just like us movie buffs want our foreign films subtitled and not dubbed over in English or remade in American versions.
 
I always laugh when people say things like "all Company X wants to do is make money" as a negative, like they expect their hobby to be some sort of great charity for all to share.
 
The fact that i have to use all my limbs to play games i have been playing with only fingers for generations makes me hate wii, kinect and move. i dislike anything that makes me work harder than i should.
 
I don't think the Kinect being successful will weed out many core games.

It is slightly worrisome for someone like me who has zero fun with motion control games, but I'm not that concerned as of now.
 
i own a ps3 and now that i've seen the videos and reaction (by the casual crowd) i will say kinect definitely will outsell move as it knows its audience. dance central/ fitness game will defiinitely appeal to the audience they are aiming for which are the moms and the girlfriends. ps move tries to aim for both audience but what they don't realize is that gamer gamers usually would not buy peripheral as they only care about software and people will definitely look at the move and compare it to the more affordable wii. remember the base price of the ps3 system is still 300 bucks while they are realeasing a stripped down new xbox for 199. i will say kinect wins because it knows its audience and doing too much and trying to appeal to both sides usually doesn't work.
 
[quote name='lordopus99'] have you not watch the demos. Stop being ignorant.[/QUOTE]

Wow, your excellent command of English has put pay to my ignorance, good job.

I didn't watch it on Fallon, but according to Kotaku it was laggy as hell. I guess they can still fix it but I stick to my theory that this isn't much of a step-up from an Eyetoy.

To answer the question the thread poses I don't think this will be a success and I'm not entirely sure what "hardcore gaming" is but I don't think Kinnect or Move are going to change the industry much.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']I never said the industry isn't motivated by profit, I said the exact opposite. No wonder my comments make no sense, you can barely comprehend a simple sentence.

And it's a win to come back and gloat?

I'll humor you though. MS E3 2010 is not a good indicator. At all. If all they presented was Kinect then MAYBE I could give you some credit, but they didn't. Guess what, you'll get tons of Halo, CoD, Gears, MGS: Rising, etc news from now until they come out! If you wanted an extra hour of people playing those games, I'm sorry you didn't get it.

Your argument is terrible with no evidence to support it. If motion controls make you so angry and nervous, quit gaming and take up a new hobby.[/QUOTE]


No evidence? Everything I've said is factual, and you offer zero counter evidence to dispute my claims.

You agree that the the industry is profit motivated, but apparently you think that the industry will continue to make games that pull in less profit. Sounds like you need a business 101 class.

And the E3 conference was like a 20 minute montage of hardcore gaming, and well over an hour of Kinect crap. The only thing that got the audience excited was the free Xboxs.
 
[quote name='kingkiller33']And the E3 conference was like a 20 minute montage of hardcore gaming, and well over an hour of Kinect crap. The only thing that got the audience excited was the free Xboxs.[/QUOTE]

I dont know about that. 1up, GiantBomb, and Shacknews (among others) have all been singing the praises of Dance Central. I know *I* found it interesting, but was surprised to see so much of 'journalist' crowd taking to the game.

And furthermore, who cares about the audience reaction at E3? Those who go to E3 tend to be the most jaded of jaded gamers who hate motion control for being "too different' and in the same breath hate Call of Duty for being "the same old thing". It's maddening to listen to.

I worry about MS though in the pricing aspect. I dont think that the majority of 360 owners want to pony up $150 for just Kinect and it's clear that a bundle for non-360 owners is gonna have to be at least $300, and that's with very limited (if any) storage. With the Wii already well entrenched, and still cheaper, I'm not sure that Microsoft can really make the case that their 'upgrade' is needed.

I almost think they should have held Kinect for their next console.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']Your argument is terrible with no evidence to support it. If motion controls make you so angry and nervous, quit gaming and take up a new hobby.[/QUOTE]
Yup. His strongest comeback to people providing counter-points to what he's saying is "provide MORE DETAIL" (when further detail is not necessary comprehend the point). Then he claims his projections for the future of the industry are "factual" (see two posts up) and no one has provided any evidence to refute any of his "facts," when this thread has multiple people telling him why his doom & gloom claims are not exactly on-point.
 
MS hasn't officially announced a price yet because it was suppose to be $149 but they are crunching the numbers to see if they can go cheaper, lose money, and make it worth it in the long run (it apparently cost them $149 to make each unit).

All this talk of the death of hardcore gaming makes me laugh. As far as I'm concerned, my gaming heart has been broken since the death of the space flight sim games and adventure games. The industry changes and plays follow the leader - you just have to adapt if you like video games.
 
[quote name='Fjordson']I don't think the Kinect being successful will weed out many core games.

It is slightly worrisome for someone like me who has zero fun with motion control games, but I'm not that concerned as of now.[/QUOTE]

It's about image, really. If all Microsoft develops is Halo and casual titles, more casual titles will follow from 3rd parties instead of resources being used for "core" games. That's the fear, anyway.

Also, they (Microsoft) have pretty much killed many of the fabled gaming studios over the past few years, and they have pretty much done it with Rare as well.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Yup. His strongest comeback to people providing counter-points to what he's saying is "provide MORE DETAIL" (when further detail is not necessary comprehend the point). Then he claims his projections for the future of the industry are "factual" (see two posts up) and no one has provided any evidence to refute any of his "facts," when this thread has multiple people telling him why his doom & gloom claims are not exactly on-point.[/QUOTE]


It's just my opinion, and honestly I hope that I am wrong. No call to get all pissy and act like an asshole cuz you don't agree with me.
 
I also forgot to mention that I have it on good authority that Epic Games had a little tiff with MS about the direction MS is trying to force Kinect.

I also have second hand knowledge of developers having their Kinect game designs rejected because they weren't casual enough.

That's not good news. I hope MS pulls their heads out soon. You can only make so many dance games.
 
[quote name='benjamouth']Wow, your excellent command of English has put pay to my ignorance, good job.

I didn't watch it on Fallon, but according to Kotaku it was laggy as hell. I guess they can still fix it but I stick to my theory that this isn't much of a step-up from an Eyetoy.

To answer the question the thread poses I don't think this will be a success and I'm not entirely sure what "hardcore gaming" is but I don't think Kinnect or Move are going to change the industry much.[/QUOTE]

Thank you English wiz. Next time, check your sentence fragments. Everyone on the internet doesn't use proper English or sentence structure. :applause:
 
[quote name='lordopus99']Thank you English wiz. Next time, check your sentence fragments. Everyone on the internet doesn't use proper English or sentence structure. :applause:[/QUOTE]

Stop being ignorant :shame:
 
[quote name='B-EZMX3200']i own a ps3 and now that i've seen the videos and reaction (by the casual crowd) i will say kinect definitely will outsell move as it knows its audience. dance central/ fitness game will defiinitely appeal to the audience they are aiming for which are the moms and the girlfriends. ps move tries to aim for both audience but what they don't realize is that gamer gamers usually would not buy peripheral as they only care about software and people will definitely look at the move and compare it to the more affordable wii. remember the base price of the ps3 system is still 300 bucks while they are realeasing a stripped down new xbox for 199. i will say kinect wins because it knows its audience and doing too much and trying to appeal to both sides usually doesn't work.[/QUOTE]

Show of hands, Who here thought the PS Move was going to outsell Kinect? No one? That's what I thought. It's a no-brainer that Kinect will sell boatloads more than Move. It's more "revolutionary" to the mainstream consumer, it's getting a thousand times the buzz and hype of Move, not to mention Microsot is plastering their Kinect ads everywhere you go online and the media outlets including television shows like Fallon. It's the top selling VG product on Amazon right now. Imagine how much it will sell come this Holiday season. It will be on the list of the hottest things to get for kids, the Move likely won't be.

Now which one actually seems to be the better of the two is a different story.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I want my HARDCORE gaming back.[/QUOTE]

I hope your joking based on the mainstream titles you are rocking on your gamertag (Batman, MW2, AC2, Forza). Super hardcore!
 
[quote name='arcane93']Screw motion controls, where's my fucking holodeck?[/QUOTE]

Holodeck... screw that... I would rather be able to teleport places.
 
I'm not worried about this at all. Kinect has zero chance of being the next big thing. There is a lot of reasons for this but I am sure most of them were already covered in this thread.
 
Zero chance... what have you seen shown on prime time tv that has been gaming related besides the Kinect? Nothing :roll:

It will easily be sold out, which means it's a big deal.
 
Being sold out at launch doesn't mean a whole lot as there's usually limited units available and new products are selling on hype rather than experience. What matters if sales are sustained long term.

Will it sell out the first few shipments, and then gather dust on store shelves? Or will it sell out long term like the Wii and become the next big thing? That's the key question. Even the Gamecube sold out around launch, and it finished in a distant 3rd place. Same with many failed consoles and other tech gadgets.

Honestly, I don't really care. I think MS is smart enough to know that they have 30 million+ people who bought the X-box (and will be likely to buy the next X-box) to play FPS and other traditional games with traditional genres.

So I think even if it catches on and is included in the box with the next xbox next generation that we'll still see Gears of War 4 etc. etc. have 100% traditional controls--or at least have the option for them--rather than forcing motion control into traditional games like Nintendo has with most of their Wii games.

If I'm wrong, c'est la vie. Plenty of other things I enjoy doing with my free time besides games.
 
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It has probably been posted a ton already but some MS website listed kinect as $150 so looks like thats gonna be the fucking price. $150 with $60 games, no thanks.
 
[quote name='Thorgouge']It has probably been posted a ton already but some MS website listed kinect as $150 so looks like thats gonna be the fucking price. $150 with $60 games, no thanks.[/QUOTE]

I have a feeling MS will drop the price of games to $40 like the PS Move
 
Kinect will be a mild success at best (a top Amazon pre-order at $150 is not going to get it into the hands of the masses) and whether it succeeds or fails that has very little to do with traditional games. NEXT QUESTION!
 
[quote name='frankcastle']i dont know why everyone is whining about the $150 price tag. for one thats not even 100% confirmed yet. second, look at the competitions prices. if you want to buy 3 additional wiimotes, nunchuks, and wii motion plus to play 4 player on wii thats $225. a move starter pack and 3 additional move wands ro play 4 players? $250 not including the navigation controllers if required. with kinect, you can play 4 players right off the bat for that $150 if thats the price. looks a lot better than $200 plus with the others.[/QUOTE]

But if you already own a Wii (like a large amount of people do) and don't own a 360 that entirely changes the economics you are talking about.

I already have all those controllers and they work just great thank you. I have a 360 and a PS3 as well, and really don't need the new version of Deca Sports. In fact, thats one of the worst games I've ever played...I didn't need it the first time!!!

Kinect can't teach minigame programmers how to make games. Call me when they have Kinect Boom Blox.
 
Just announced:

$99 Xbox Live Family Gold plan with a "family center". Microsoft is definitely promoting family friendly gaming here.
 
$99 isn't too great of a price, but at least it's a step in the right direction and shows that they realize the flaw in their current gold plan. I've got 2 kids, so buying 3 $30 gold memberships would be cheaper, but then $30 isn't the retail price, so hopefully the family plan will see similar discounts. FYI, the family plan will give 4 users a gold account. Available in November. Why not right now?
 
I never even thought about the fact that families had to pay or multiple Gold memberships per year. That's a ton of money if you think about it. I just figured it was the $50/year/Xbox.
 
[quote name='kingkiller33']Just announced:

$99 Xbox Live Family Gold plan with a "family center". Microsoft is definitely promoting family friendly gaming here.[/QUOTE]

The HORROR.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']$99 isn't too great of a price, but at least it's a step in the right direction and shows that they realize the flaw in their current gold plan. I've got 2 kids, so buying 3 $30 gold memberships would be cheaper, but then $30 isn't the retail price, so hopefully the family plan will see similar discounts. FYI, the family plan will give 4 users a gold account. Available in November. Why not right now?[/QUOTE]

Because there is a dashboard/software component to tying the other 3 gold accounts to one master account. It also (most likely) only allows all 4 to be on one xbox at any given time.

[quote name='ssjmichael']I never even thought about the fact that families had to pay or multiple Gold memberships per year. That's a ton of money if you think about it. I just figured it was the $50/year/Xbox.[/QUOTE]

Nope.
 
[quote name='ssjmichael']I never even thought about the fact that families had to pay or multiple Gold memberships per year. That's a ton of money if you think about it. I just figured it was the $50/year/Xbox.[/QUOTE]

Oh. We don't pay for 3 memberships. And my kids don't like it, and neither do I! The only person with a Gold membership is me. Even if you take the approach of having them just play online with my account, that's got issues. First of all that means that they are playing online with my friends list and, for that matter, it means that their friends are on my friends list. Second, it means that in order to play online, they have to give up their own achievements. It all sucks. Paying $90 a year sucks even more, though. So I really hope we see this family membership selling for $60 or less. I'd be OK with that. Anything more and I'm going to be just as pissed as ever about paying for online play, and still second guessing my decision to buy a 360 instead of a PS3.

EDIT: If it helps, know that Steam sucks even more. You don't pay for online, no, but you do pay for more then one user to play the games you buy! That's far worse. Oh, well of course they can play the games, but they don't get their own achievements, and they don't get their own friends lists. Generally there seems to be multiple saves so they can play, but there is only one set of achievements (and the ones friends list). I like achievements. They like achievements. No way in hell am I going to pay 3 times for a game just so they can have their own achievements! It's pretty insanely shortsighted. Besides that, Steam just isn't designed around the idea of multiple profiles. Switching profiles is a pain. Now, this is all theoretical at the moment, as right now I'm the only one who plays anything on Steam, but Steam is so completely un-family-friendly that that will not change until Steam changes. Plus it's pretty irritating, the idea that you have to pay multiple times for multiple profiles. I'm pretty much not going to buy anything else no Steam until they fix this.
 
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Those of you who don't think Kinect will be a success and sell out are delusional. I don't like the idea of Kinect anymore than any of you do, but just look at how the Wii was selling out for years after the initial release and that was for a console yes, but an underpowered console with a lacking library of "Real" games. The Kinect will be popular with families, kids, girls, hipsters, pot heads, and the elderly. It's almost impossible to not be able to play games on it since everything is body movement and hand gestures. No more complicated buttons and knobs for Grandma!

Don't worry though fellas, we will still get our "real" games that we can play with our controllers.
 
[quote name='crunchewy']Oh. We don't pay for 3 memberships. And my kids don't like it, and neither do I! The only person with a Gold membership is me. Even if you take the approach of having them just play online with my account, that's got issues. First of all that means that they are playing online with my friends list and, for that matter, it means that their friends are on my friends list. Second, it means that in order to play online, they have to give up their own achievements. It all sucks. Paying $90 a year sucks even more, though. So I really hope we see this family membership selling for $60 or less. I'd be OK with that. Anything more and I'm going to be just as pissed as ever about paying for online play, and still second guessing my decision to buy a 360 instead of a PS3.

EDIT: If it helps, know that Steam sucks even more. You don't pay for online, no, but you do pay for more then one user to play the games you buy! That's far worse. Oh, well of course they can play the games, but they don't get their own achievements, and they don't get their own friends lists. Generally there seems to be multiple saves so they can play, but there is only one set of achievements (and the ones friends list). I like achievements. They like achievements. No way in hell am I going to pay 3 times for a game just so they can have their own achievements! It's pretty insanely shortsighted. Besides that, Steam just isn't designed around the idea of multiple profiles. Switching profiles is a pain. Now, this is all theoretical at the moment, as right now I'm the only one who plays anything on Steam, but Steam is so completely un-family-friendly that that will not change until Steam changes. Plus it's pretty irritating, the idea that you have to pay multiple times for multiple profiles. I'm pretty much not going to buy anything else no Steam until they fix this.[/QUOTE]

im truly not trying to be all " fanboy " about it , but maybe you should try out the PS3. My local Bestbuy has them on display to test games and stuff. Plus PSN is free :D

but...Sony announced PSN+ which is optional and that is $49.99 a year. But only one account on the System has to have it purchased
 
[quote name='Sigma']The Kinect will be popular with families, kids, girls, hipsters, pot heads, and the elderly. [/QUOTE]

Yeah no. Ever get couch lock? Casual games are shit and when you're high they are even more shitty. Now maybe if you could play Children of Eden with Kinect while sitting down pot heads might like but until then Third person action games and shooters will be the pot heads game of choice.
 
[quote name='iKilledChewbacca']im truly not trying to be all " fanboy " about it , but maybe you should try out the PS3. My local Bestbuy has them on display to test games and stuff. Plus PSN is free :D

but...Sony announced PSN+ which is optional and that is $49.99 a year. But only one account on the System has to have it purchased[/QUOTE]

First off, I like the 360 a lot. I think it's got some great games (I'm not into Halo, but I like the XBLA and Indie offerings quite a bit), so I'm not going to give up my 360. I can't currently afford another console (already have 360 and Wii), and no, I'm not interested in selling the Wii. We love our Wii. I love it. We use it all the time, probably more then 360. So there you go. Yes, I second guess the decision, but then I play Trials HD, or whatever, and forget all that for the moment. I just keep hoping that some day Microsoft will recognize that their paid-online sucks for families and put an end to it, or just make it so you only need one membership, and that at an affordable price. The new family plan is a step in the right direction, but definitely not cheap enough yet.
 
[quote name='budsmoka']Yeah no. Ever get couch lock? Casual games are shit and when you're high they are even more shitty. Now maybe if you could play Children of Eden with Kinect while sitting down pot heads might like but until then Third person action games and shooters will be the pot heads game of choice.[/QUOTE]

actually I heard some potheads play better when high
 
Yeah, MS was very short sighted when it came to families and shared consoles in general when it comes to the online set up.

A quick fix for achievements would be to ban online achievements and make them all related to the single player portion of games. Would solve the family issue, as well as get rid of all the stupid achievement boosting in multiplayer games.

But that still doesn't solve the friends list issue--they really should just make a Gold enabled console able to have up to 4 or 5 separate gamer tags that can play online.
 
[quote name='budsmoka']Yeah no. Ever get couch lock? Casual games are shit and when you're high they are even more shitty. Now maybe if you could play Children of Eden with Kinect while sitting down pot heads might like but until then Third person action games and shooters will be the pot heads game of choice.[/QUOTE]
Child of Eden is more of an acid or shrooms type of game. I'm always going to prefer to game with a controller and that's because I am a gamer who just happens to smoke bud. I also prefer to play RPGs and fighters, not shooters and third person action titles.

Either way in my last post adding pot heads to the list was more of a joke, it's the families and young children who will make the Kinect a success. It'll be just like the Wii, hardcore gamers will shun it and everyone else will sing the praises.
 
[quote name='Sigma']Those of you who don't think Kinect will be a success and sell out are delusional. I don't like the idea of Kinect anymore than any of you do, but just look at how the Wii was selling out for years after the initial release and that was for a console yes, but an underpowered console with a lacking library of "Real" games. The Kinect will be popular with families, kids, girls, hipsters, pot heads, and the elderly. It's almost impossible to not be able to play games on it since everything is body movement and hand gestures. No more complicated buttons and knobs for Grandma!

Don't worry though fellas, we will still get our "real" games that we can play with our controllers.[/QUOTE]

All of those people you mention already have a 200 dollar Wii Sports machine that comes with the ability to play awesome Nintendo games as a bonus. Why will they run out and buy a kinect? Microsoft priced this right out of the very market they are going after.

MS will most definitely sell a few million of these by Xmas but that is about it. The software isnt there for casuals or core gamers and the price will most definitely be too high, especially if you don't own a 360 already.
 
Yeah, thats the real question. How many people with Wiis will buy Kinnect? And how many 360 owners who don't have Wiis have interest in casual motion control games given they've not bought a Wii?

The answer to those two questions will determine whether it catches on, or just sells out initially then flames out by this time next year.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, thats the real question. How many people with Wiis will buy Kinnect? And how many 360 owners who don't have Wiis have interest in casual motion control games given they've not bought a Wii?

The answer to those two questions will determine whether it catches on, or just sells out initially then flames out by this time next year.[/QUOTE]

Those are good questions.

I will buy it. Because I'm a sucker and a nerd and I know i will convince myself that $150 is worth it for the voice commands and regret it later.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, thats the real question. How many people with Wiis will buy Kinnect? And how many 360 owners who don't have Wiis have interest in casual motion control games given they've not bought a Wii?

The answer to those two questions will determine whether it catches on, or just sells out initially then flames out by this time next year.[/QUOTE]

I will most likely be buying one as long as I can find one more game that peaks my interest like Dance Central has. Yes, I have a Wii i.e. a dust collector.

A quick fix for achievements would be to ban online achievements and make them all related to the single player portion of games. Would solve the family issue, as well as get rid of all the stupid achievement boosting in multiplayer games.
Click to expand...

I have been wishing that since they started achievements. Let's be for real... there is no one, i repeat, no one that has Seriously 2.0 (Gears of War 2) legit i.e. not boosting. Epic had to know this.
 
I own a Wii, I DID own an Xbox till I decided to use the board for other purposes(I get in trouble when I get soldering happy) and I plan on getting a new 250g 360 and Kinect. Why? I have a 3 year old who would love Kinectamals. I'm probably a minority as far as CAG users go. I really wonder how many other gamer parents would do the same I would. BUT I personally would most likely never touch the thing.

I play the proverbial "Hard Core" games and I dislike motion controls. My family on the other hand loves stuff like that. Within my househould we feed both markets. I would buy the Kinect as a gift for them on a Holiday as I'm not rolling in dough enough to drop 150 on a whim, and that's only if the hardware shows promising quality when I get some hands on time.
 
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