Kinect - Gen. Info & Discussion

Ok, you folks are making me want to pick it up. Space isn't really a big issue in our living room (we have the sofa pretty far back anyway). Still, $150 + $50 for Dance Central. Well, I might just venture over to kmart at lunch today anyway. Not sure what I'll spend the $40s worth of gift cards on, as Dance Central is the main add-on game I want.

Question: what game has that hit/kick the balls thing in that was demoed early on? You know, that's kind of like break out, but not hitting any blocks (I don't think). I really would want that. Is that part of Kinect Adventures or Kinect Sports or something else?
 
[quote name='crunchewy']
Question: what game has that hit/kick the balls thing in that was demoed early on? You know, that's kind of like break out, but not hitting any blocks (I don't think). I really would want that. Is that part of Kinect Adventures or Kinect Sports or something else?[/QUOTE]

That is part of Kinect Adventures so you will get it free.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']I'm curious if people with Kinect lagging on their systems have non-Slim 360s or slim 360s.[/QUOTE]

I have the Halo Reach 360.
 
For those of you complaining about Netflix support, I'm sure MS is well aware of how great it would be for them to add it on, and its only a matter of time before they make it compatible.
 
They said Kinect support for Netflix is coming.

Regarding lag, I have a Jasper system and there is some lag, but like I said before, it's not frustrating.

On a side note, I'm a software engineer and do some work in signal processing/computer vision and it's amazing to me how little lag there is relative to the complexity of the algorithms it's running. Any time you do any sort of smoothing of a signal (to reduce noise) you introduce lag, there's no way around it. I can imagine they have spent, and will continue to spend, considerable time tuning the signal processing of the camera data, not to mention the higher level skeletal classification algorithms.

I'm guessing the amount of lag could vary depending on lighting conditions for cases in which the RGB cameras are being used. In low lighting they will need to crank up the pre-processing (introducing more lag) to better distinguish you from the background.

On top of that, the perceived lag also depends on the lag introduced by the signal processing of your TV. Turning on game mode or turning off features like dynamic contrast will probably shave off a few milliseconds of lag.

And on top of all that, each game may introduce different amounts of lag depending on how much of the Kinect API the game uses--some things could take more than a frame's worth of CPU time, for example--but it's hard to say since Microsoft doesn't publish the algorithms or source code.

Bottom line, it makes sense that everyone will report different perceptions of the lag.
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Its also on the Kinect Adventures disc...unless the download is somehow different.[/QUOTE]

that seems really silly now, they might as well put out a kinect adventures demo to waste more time/space
 
[quote name='shrike4242']I'm curious if people with Kinect lagging on their systems have non-Slim 360s or slim 360s.[/QUOTE]

I have the Halo Reach 360.
 
[quote name='Aleman']They said Kinect support for Netflix is coming.[/quote]

It's not that I disbelieve you, but do you have a link or source?
I want to know if it's because of netflix we don't have it or just because they didn't finish it. It's a little disturbing that ESPN3 is the only app that you can FULLY control with voice.

Regarding lag, I have a Jasper system and there is some lag, but like I said before, it's not frustrating.

On a side note, I'm a software engineer and do some work in signal processing/computer vision and it's amazing to me how little lag there is relative to the complexity of the algorithms it's running. Any time you do any sort of smoothing of a signal (to reduce noise) you introduce lag, there's no way around it. I can imagine they have spent, and will continue to spend, considerable time tuning the signal processing of the camera data, not to mention the higher level skeletal classification algorithms.

I'm guessing the amount of lag could vary depending on lighting conditions for cases in which the RGB cameras are being used. In low lighting they will need to crank up the pre-processing (introducing more lag) to better distinguish you from the background.

On top of that, the perceived lag also depends on the lag introduced by the signal processing of your TV. Turning on game mode or turning off features like dynamic contrast will probably shave off a few milliseconds of lag.

And on top of all that, each game may introduce different amounts of lag depending on how much of the Kinect API the game uses--some things could take more than a frame's worth of CPU time, for example--but it's hard to say since Microsoft doesn't publish the algorithms or source code.

Bottom line, it makes sense that everyone will report different perceptions of the lag.
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That all sounds possible, except that actual motion tracking in games doesn't use the RGB camera at all. Which is why it works great in total darkness too.

I just want to clarify that the lag I was talking about was with video chat. I was getting like 3fps when I fired up video Kinect. It was horrible. Then i go see videos of other people using it and it's like a totally different product. Could lighting effect that? I don't know.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I just want to clarify that the lag I was talking about was with video chat. I was getting like 3fps when I fired up video Kinect. It was horrible. Then i go see videos of other people using it and it's like a totally different product. Could lighting effect that? I don't know.[/QUOTE]

yeah, strange that you mention that, I installed the Kinect Video app or whatever and tried to start a video w/ my screename on Live Messenger 2011. When it showed me in the video pane on the 360, it looked no better than with the regular Vision Camera..I'm not sure what the deal was, or if that is how it's supposed to be, but it didn't look like $150 worth of a quality image..
 
Folks I myself am not interested in Kinect at all. The reason I am considering getting one is for my kids. I have a 2 y/o and a 3y/o. My son (3y/o) is starting to get interested in video games and wants to play them with me. Obviously he in not ready for Call of Duty and Mass Effect and he had a hard time holding a controller be it PS3 or Xbox 360. With winter coming soon they are going to be indoors a lot. Anyone who has/had toddlers knows that it can be frustrating for them to have nowhere to spend all that energy.
My son and I have played Castle Crashers together, and he did alright. Mostly just mashed the attack. Not much for blocking or magic use :) . He likes Angry Birds and some of the educational games we have on the iPad. So I think he could understand the Kinect with some practice. Maybe Kincet Adventures or Kincet Sports.
So my question to everyone (especially parents of little ones) is have you had a chance to see a 2-5 y/o use Kinect? Were they able to play the games? Did they "get it"? Am I crazy for hoping this will help us make it through another winter in snowy Norther Indiana?
 
I can report back tonight after I try it with my 4.5 year old..(sadly, his mom didn't want me getting him 'all riled' up before bed last night) but already IMO, this will be the best thing for any kid b/c my son has played with the Wii and with the Move, and I mean he just doesn't do that great b/c he is all over the place. Sometimes the controller will slip or rotate in his hand and I can't tell you how many times he's hit the damn 'PS' button on the Move causing the XMB to pop up and him getting mad.

I think this will be the definitive motion controller to get for children. There, I've said it..I even told my buddies that I am more satisfied with the Kinect over the Wii and Move that I would sell them in a heartbeat to prove my point..
 
My 6yr old daughter had some trouble with the menu navigation, being able to hold her hand in the proper spot to activate that option. Playing the games themselves went well, we have Kinect Adventures and Dance Central. KA would be fine, DC not so much.
 
[quote name='token2k6']yeah, strange that you mention that, I installed the Kinect Video app or whatever and tried to start a video w/ my screename on Live Messenger 2011. When it showed me in the video pane on the 360, it looked no better than with the regular Vision Camera..I'm not sure what the deal was, or if that is how it's supposed to be, but it didn't look like $150 worth of a quality image..[/QUOTE]

The color camera is pretty crappy. Its resolution is only 640x480, same as Vision cam.

It's $150 because of the huge R&D cost and hardware wise there is also a motor, IR camera, IR emitter, 4 microphones, and a fan along with the color camera.
 
[quote name='token2k6']yeah, strange that you mention that, I installed the Kinect Video app or whatever and tried to start a video w/ my screename on Live Messenger 2011. When it showed me in the video pane on the 360, it looked no better than with the regular Vision Camera..I'm not sure what the deal was, or if that is how it's supposed to be, but it didn't look like $150 worth of a quality image..[/QUOTE]

I thought the pictures the system took during Kinect Adventures were a bit blurry, but the video it captured in Dance Central was a little more clear.

I noticed a lot of pixels when trying to calibrate the system with the eyeball card they give you. I thought it might just be my lighting, but obviously not.
 
I mean he just doesn't do that great b/c he is all over the place. Sometimes the controller will slip or rotate in his hand and I can't tell you how many times he's hit the damn 'PS' button on the Move causing the XMB to pop up and him getting mad
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I originally considered the Move as an option, but I quickly decided against it. I figured the issues you mentioned would be a problem. And I could just see having to replace the Move Controller and some sort of glass because he got excited and the controller went flying. I figure with the Kinect the most he will break is himself, and he'll heal :)

sadly, his mom didn't want me getting him 'all riled' up before bed last night
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Moms are no fun are they? Worried about "bed time" and "sleep" how is the boy going to pull all-nighters without proper training?
 
^^hehe, so true, and then she ended up staying up and watching me demo it..go figure!

and I think you made the right choice on the Move, while I was all about it when it launched, we haven't touched it in weeks, and only really enjoyed Start the Party..
 
[quote name='Aleman']The color camera is pretty crappy. Its resolution is only 640x480, same as Vision cam.

It's $150 because of the huge R&D cost and hardware wise there is also a motor, IR camera, IR emitter, 4 microphones, and a fan along with the color camera.[/QUOTE]

Kinect has a fan???? Is it noisy? I didn't know it had a fan. If it's noisy, that would be a huge turnoff.
 
http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Microsoft-Kinect-Teardown/4066/

There's a fan to the left in this picture. You don't ever hear it.

GheDWqMh3XJjVc25.medium
 
[quote name='LinkinPrime']Its also on the Kinect Adventures disc...unless the download is somehow different.[/QUOTE]

I downloaded the demo, I'll test it out later to see if there is a difference.
 
[quote name='ZForce915']I downloaded the demo, I'll test it out later to see if there is a difference.[/QUOTE]

I cheated and asked XboxSupport on twitter. They say it is different.
 
man, some website needs to put out an article listing all the phrases this thing will recognize..

does anyone know if you can turn the unit off w/ a voice command?
 
[quote name='token2k6']man, some website needs to put out an article listing all the phrases this thing will recognize..

does anyone know if you can turn the unit off w/ a voice command?[/QUOTE]

If you can see it, you can say it.

Once you say "Kinect" and it pulls up the submenu you can say anything you can see. If you want to say something that is on a different page, you need to say "next" or "next page" (I forget which one) and then say what is on the screen. Your voice only acts like a controller pushing the A button, and you can't push an A button on a screen you can't see.
 
[quote name='ZForce915']I cheated and asked XboxSupport on twitter. They say it is different.[/QUOTE]

Cool, guess I'll queue it up. Thanks.
 
I mounted the sensor on the top of my HDTV with a 1.5x1.5 inch piece of velcro. It is working like a charm. I think this might be a FAR better solution then waiting for a mounting bracket to become available.
 
[quote name='ZForce915']I mounted the sensor on the top of my HDTV with a 1.5x1.5 inch piece of velcro. It is working like a charm. I think this might be a FAR better solution then waiting for a mounting bracket to become available.[/QUOTE]

There actually is a official Xbox bracket we sell at Best Buy for $39.99. It mounts on via the two screws in the back of your TV where a normal TV mount would go. A bit pricey but it definitely works.
 
[quote name='ZForce915']I mounted the sensor on the top of my HDTV with a 1.5x1.5 inch piece of velcro. It is working like a charm. I think this might be a FAR better solution then waiting for a mounting bracket to become available.[/QUOTE]
Any idea where you got your velcro at? (probably a dumb question)
 
[quote name='pjb16']Any idea where you got your velcro at? (probably a dumb question)[/QUOTE]

you should be able to get it at any hardware store
 
Oh 2 things.

Voice control was terrible with all those people. I can only assume it's because I calibrated it in a quiet room.

Pause seemed finicky with a lot of people behind me.
 
So I got Kinect with 3 games yesterday (dance central, your fitness, kinect sports) and all are fun and a work out. Only if dance central had online multiplayer it would of been better. Anyone purchased any of the dlc tracks for dance central yet? I had fun playing kinect adventure on xbl as well.
 
Not sure if it's been talked about a lot, but the video capturing in Kinect Sports, and the ability to upload said videos to Facebook, is pure gold. I've gotten so many comments on my Facebook when I post these videos. The music is also hilarious as well. I hope more games in the future integrate this as well.

On that note, is there a way to get photos from Dance Central online too?
 
You know what, I am tired of people saying this thing sucks. Is it perfect? no it's not. However, The games work very well and the kids love the games. I love the games too. I actually was pretty achy after the first day playing Dance Central.

I don't even know if I would be called a core gamer even though I have over 60 Xbox 360 games and love various genres. Just because you're a core player doesn't mean you can't enjoy Kinect.

Truthfully, the space concern is very valid. I did rearrange our living room to get the best possible amount of space.
 
[quote name='Cephiros']You know what, I am tired of people saying this thing sucks. Is it perfect? no it's not. However, The games work very well and the kids love the games. I love the games too. I actually was pretty achy after the first day playing Dance Central.

I don't even know if I would be called a core gamer even though I have over 60 Xbox 360 games and love various genres. Just because you're a core player doesn't mean you can't enjoy Kinect.

Truthfully, the space concern is very valid. I did rearrange our living room to get the best possible amount of space.[/QUOTE]

Thank you! 100% correct.

People don't seem to realize that it's 2 god damn days old. Do people expect 100 hardcore launch titles? I'm thinking of it as a totally new system. I don't expect anything A quality to come out of the Kinect for a few weeks if not months. Nothing original has come out for the Move yet but I don't here anything about that. People just love to hate.
 
Most bashing it haven't played it. Not all, just seems like most.

Like I said, everyone had a blast last night with it. People were impressed with how responsive it is.

If anyone can figure out how to upload Dance Central pictures, Id like to know too.
 
I think my biggest frustration with the Kinect at the present moment is Kinect ID. While it has no troubles recognizing me yet sometimes it has troubles with the kids.
 
[quote name='Cephiros']I think my biggest frustration with the Kinect at the present moment is Kinect ID. While it has no troubles recognizing me yet sometimes it has troubles with the kids.[/QUOTE]

Did you do the Kinect ID for them?

I did it for my 6 yo daughter and it works alot better now .
 
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