Legalizing weed to create more tax revenue.

MSI Magus

MSI Magus

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If your a big proponent of legalizing pot this topic isnt meant for you, I already know how you feel. This goes to those that are against the idea. Now with the economy down the shitter do you still feel that legalizing pot is a bad idea? Apparently they are attempting to do it in California and have stated that it would create over a billion dollars in taxable revenue for the state. I have never been a fan of pot, but have always thought keeping it illegal was silly....but now more then ever it just seems like a dumb idea to keep it illegal when we could make $10s of billions if not $100s of billions taxing it(AKA enough to bail out 1 big bank ;)
 
sure, why not.... but then wouldn't all the "farmers" need licensing and such? could be kinda expensive... if it goes mainstream, wouldn't the FDA get on this and mandate certain regulations...

Seems like alot of work.
 
[quote name='xycury']sure, why not.... but then wouldn't all the "farmers" need licensing and such? could be kinda expensive... if it goes mainstream, wouldn't the FDA get on this and mandate certain regulations...

Seems like alot of work.[/QUOTE]

I bet it realistically wouldn't take that much work and on the non FDA end its already ready to go mainstream. Many tobacco companies have had the ground work laid just in case for years now. A good example is looking up who owns different copy rights for names. Things like Mary Jane and Dimes are already copy righted by all sorts of tobacco companies.
 
I'm not at all a fan of weed, but sure. I've been open to this idea for years and years and years.

Think of the savings from reduced incarceration rates as well.
 
[quote name='xycury']sure, why not.... but then wouldn't all the "farmers" need licensing and such? could be kinda expensive... if it goes mainstream, wouldn't the FDA get on this and mandate certain regulations...

Seems like alot of work.[/quote]

Something else to note would be that the hundreds of millions wasted fighting the "War on Drugs" (har) will always be several times greater than the amount needed to cultivate it into a taxable venue.

Just like cigarettes, it'll be taxed hard too. Overall, I don't particularly like the idea of legalizing marijuana, but in the end compared to cigarettes and alcohol it really just falls into the "who the fuck cares?" category.

Cigarettes and Alcohol kill people by the thousands each year and we sell those by the carton and case. I really don't see small to medium sized bags of marijuana setting the high score anytime soon.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I bet it realistically wouldn't take that much work and on the non FDA end its already ready to go mainstream. Many tobacco companies have had the ground work laid just in case for years now. A good example is looking up who owns different copy rights for names. Things like Mary Jane and Dimes are already copy righted by all sorts of tobacco companies.[/quote]

so big tobacco becomes big mary jane?

well I could see this being HUGE on banning smoking in any public place... this would have to go along with banning tobacco in public places too.

I don't want a contact buzz from the asshole next to me.

Wicked headaches....

Tax the hell out of it! woohoo... what about claiming "Too high" when you file for unemployement? would that even be an option?

I assume that it might be harder to be accepted to work? Having no tollerance to anyone that does? How would they enforce this in firing someone that's obviously bad at working and smoking?

Yikes.. seems like we'll need a Blood-High ratio test for testing instead of the standard piss test because it stays with you so much longer, not like Alcohol.


.... I'm not against it, but I can see trying to legalize it and everything that comes afterwards... might be a nightmare.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']Something else to note would be that the hundreds of millions wasted fighting the "War on Drugs" (har) will always be several times greater than the amount needed to cultivate it into a taxable venue.

Just like cigarettes, it'll be taxed hard too. Overall, I don't particularly like the idea of legalizing marijuana, but in the end compared to cigarettes and alcohol it really just falls into the "who the fuck cares?" category.

Cigarettes and Alcohol kill people by the thousands each year and we sell those by the carton and case. I really don't see small to medium sized bags of marijuana setting the high score anytime soon.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]

My exact motto. Weed and other minor drugs(meaning no crap like cocaine)and things like prostitution are not things that I partake in but if made legal would not hurt anyone but make us tons of money. Legalize it and if your against it then never again utter to keep the government out of your affairs. This country needs money and it needs things to keep people happy. Weed and prostitution would do both ;)
 
[quote name='xycury']so big tobacco becomes big mary jane?

well I could see this being HUGE on banning smoking in any public place... this would have to go along with banning tobacco in public places too.

I don't want a contact buzz from the asshole next to me.

Wicked headaches....

Tax the hell out of it! woohoo... what about claiming "Too high" when you file for unemployement? would that even be an option?

I assume that it might be harder to be accepted to work? Having no tollerance to anyone that does? How would they enforce this in firing someone that's obviously bad at working and smoking?

Yikes.. seems like we'll need a Blood-High ratio test for testing instead of the standard piss test because it stays with you so much longer, not like Alcohol.


.... I'm not against it, but I can see trying to legalize it and everything that comes afterwards... might be a nightmare.[/QUOTE]

OOOOO I didnt even think about the fact that it indeed would probably kick the banning of smoking in public up another notch. Also might finally make it so people smoking in a car with a child in the car could be ticketed.
 
I'm for broad substance decriminalization with certain regulatory measures. Think of how much crime is the direct result of the production, transport, and sale of controlled substances. I'm not huge on a per-unit tax for the items (rather, a standard sales tax), but it could generate huge revenues. Then, think of what would happen if there were no incentive for criminals to produce these drugs. All of these drug cartel issues in Mexico? An almost DIRECT result on the U.S. "War on drugs". When was the last time you that heard a group of bootleggers in a shoot out with the cops?

The problem here is that such a process is like fighting uphill and underwater. Politicians support the ban of these, not because they care about your safety, but because they care about getting re-elected.
 
[quote name='xycury']so big tobacco becomes big mary jane?

well I could see this being HUGE on banning smoking in any public place... this would have to go along with banning tobacco in public places too.

I don't want a contact buzz from the asshole next to me.

Wicked headaches....

Tax the hell out of it! woohoo... what about claiming "Too high" when you file for unemployement? would that even be an option?



I assume that it might be harder to be accepted to work? Having no tollerance to anyone that does? How would they enforce this in firing someone that's obviously bad at working and smoking?

Yikes.. seems like we'll need a Blood-High ratio test for testing instead of the standard piss test because it stays with you so much longer, not like Alcohol.


.... I'm not against it, but I can see trying to legalize it and everything that comes afterwards... might be a nightmare.[/quote]


Ridiculous argument. First, a simple field sobriety test could tell if your on something, whether it be weed or alcohol. Second, would "to drunk" work when filing for unemployment? Of course not. Legalization doesn't mean the U.S would become Hippyville.

Also nice interview with the AZ AG. He ends ups saying in a round about way, that legalizing weed would cut off most of the funding for the cartels.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Arizona_AG_Pot_legalization_could_prevent_0227.html
 
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[quote name='homeland']Ridiculous argument. First, a simple field sobriety test could tell if your on something, whether it be week or alcohol. Second, would "to drunk" work when filing for unemployment? Of course not. Legalization doesn't mean the U.S would become Hippyville.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I dont think that by any means that legalizing it would mean everyone would suddenly be abusing the substance. Dont get me wrong I do think there would be an increase in its use, but I dont think all of a sudden everyone is going to be stoned. I bet realistically the increase would be 10-25% early on but then drop as many of the first time or casual users have their early experiments. Personally I smoked with my brother once before and hated having to smoke but didnt mind the experience. So if it was legalized I would probally buy a few brownies in the store in the early months and then based on enjoyment move on. I am guessing that that would be the case for many if not most people.
 
I'm in favor. Hell, I'm in favor of legalizing most substances. Even decriminalizing use of heavier narcotics. Why make illegal something that only hurts the people who do it? Funnel prison money into rehabilitation centers instead, so that we can help those who aren't able to use it and live productive lives, and keep using in public or driving under the influence illegal.
 
[quote name='Quillion']Why make illegal something that only hurts the people who do it?[/quote]

Because that's not true.

Funnel prison money into rehabilitation centers instead, so that we can help those who aren't able to use it and live productive lives, and keep using in public or driving under the influence illegal.
Click to expand...

Yep.
 
[quote name='xycury']I'm all in favor of legalizing pot, in return to get the death penalty on repetitive DUIs...[/QUOTE]

Id be ok with that if it wasn't for the fact that the death penalty is nothing more then a pointless money sink.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Because that's not true.[/quote]
I was referring to the physical costs, not the emotional ones. Many things have emotional costs and aren't illegal. Divorce, adultery... I liken drug use more to overeating to an extreme.

Sure, there are health-care related costs, just like with smoking, but on the balance, it costs more to outlaw and enforce than legalize and tax.
 
Not against legalization, but what about the children? (Won't someone please think of the children?)

HelenLovejoy_t630.jpg


If a woman is pregnant, what restrictions for weed will there be for her and how won't it clash with Roe V. Wade?

If a parent bankrupts a family by being a pothead through overconsumption or a lack of income, how are the children not hurt?

If regular smoke causes health problems like asthma and SIDS for kids and babies, is pot smoke going to be give a free pass?
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Id be ok with that if it wasn't for the fact that the death penalty is nothing more then a pointless money sink.[/quote]

Death penalty reform... that or ship them to Austrailia...


I think legalizing will take alot of work... maybe too much.
 
[quote name='xycury']Death penalty reform... that or ship them to Austrailia...


I think legalizing will take alot of work... maybe too much.[/quote]
Right. Cause congress is too busy passing monkey-banning legislation to focus on something as silly as decriminalization.
 
[quote name='xycury']Death penalty reform... that or ship them to Austrailia...


I think legalizing will take alot of work... maybe too much.[/QUOTE]

I dont think you can reform the death penalty. if you speed the process up you risk killing innocent people(something that is already done far too often)and if you keep it a lengthy process it costs too much money.
 
[quote name='Quillion']Right. Cause congress is too busy passing monkey-banning legislation to focus on something as silly as decriminalization.[/quote]

Well they can't get any worse...

I just got sick of reading the paper; "On his 8th DUI, decided to crash into a car killing that old person or young driver". He'll get a slap, maybe 2 years without his license... that's it.

[quote name='MSI Magus']I dont think you can reform the death penalty. if you speed the process up you risk killing innocent people(something that is already done far too often)and if you keep it a lengthy process it costs too much money.[/quote]

Well clear cut cases... sure... I can see the muddle work with doing wrong and getting not the right guy.


But... we're going Off topic.

I think Pot can work, but no one, at least anyone that could make the change, actually wants to touch the subject?

We'd still have many of the problems then as we do now. Drug cartel won't be profitable, at least not as much. Getting it across borders to a better economy without Tarrifs and taxes there. It'll still happen.

We'll have to model after Amsterdam which is legal to pocess right? but not to sell or carry?

I would guess more regulation would be bad, government get bigger! but that's what would have to happen too.
 
I have recently done a 180 on this topic as well, mostly because of the economy and border violence.

But I don't know why we should stop at pot. If we legalize pot, cocaine will become the next pot. I'm afraid you will have to more or less legalize just about everything, to make legalization work and really take the teeth out of the border drug gangs.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I have recently done a 180 on this topic as well, mostly because of the economy and border violence.

But I don't know why we should stop at pot. If we legalize pot, cocaine will become the next pot. I'm afraid you will have to more or less legalize just about everything, to make legalization work and really take the teeth out of the border drug gangs.[/quote]

I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If weed ever became legalized, cocaine would not become "the new pot". I know plenty of people who smoke weed and would never have any interest in cocaine.
 
[quote name='Squall835']I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If weed ever became legalized, cocaine would not become "the new pot". I know plenty of people who smoke weed and would never have any interest in cocaine.[/quote]
I think he's referring to it as the funding method for this violence, not as a drug of choice. And in that sense, he's right. To eliminate this border violence, we need to take away their funding completely.
 
If they legalized weed, I'm guessing a lot less people would want to try it, thus they wouldn't see that much tax money anyway.

I mean it'd be taxed, it'd be more expensive (as most legal things are), and you'd probably need a prescription to get it over the counter.
 
[quote name='Quillion']I was referring to the physical costs, not the emotional ones. Many things have emotional costs and aren't illegal. Divorce, adultery... I liken drug use more to overeating to an extreme.

Sure, there are health-care related costs, just like with smoking, but on the balance, it costs more to outlaw and enforce than legalize and tax.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking of the health-care costs of making sure little johnny doesn't end up suffering from malnutrition, or misses attending school, because daddy was too busy being high.

An overlydramatic example, yes - but I'm simply suggesting that indirect effects are not solely emotional in nature.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']If they legalized weed, I'm guessing a lot less people would want to try it, thus they wouldn't see that much tax money anyway.

I mean it'd be taxed, it'd be more expensive (as most legal things are), and you'd probably need a prescription to get it over the counter.[/QUOTE]

Making something legal doesnt automatically make it more expensive. I think this might be true of prostitution but in the case of weed it is a substance which would be very easy for companies to grow and distribute large amounts of on the cheap where as the people currently selling it often have to go through a fair effort and they also have to pay both the grower and their foot people.
 
[quote name='Squall835']I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If weed ever became legalized, cocaine would not become "the new pot". I know plenty of people who smoke weed and would never have any interest in cocaine.[/quote]

But weed is a gateway drug :lol:
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Making something legal doesnt automatically make it more expensive. I think this might be true of prostitution but in the case of weed it is a substance which would be very easy for companies to grow and distribute large amounts of on the cheap where as the people currently selling it often have to go through a fair effort and they also have to pay both the grower and their foot people.[/quote]

But vice taxes could easily push it to be as much as it is now. Plus quality control, no skunk weed, weed that is better quality...etc.

I think doing it and how it sounds is fine, but getting there and everything else seems like work, for something that's suppose to give you a reasonably opposite effect.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']But I don't know why we should stop at pot. If we legalize pot, cocaine will become the next pot. I'm afraid you will have to more or less legalize just about everything, to make legalization work and really take the teeth out of the border drug gangs.[/QUOTE]
I've used just about every drug except for heroin (the syringe was my limit). All the other big nasties I've used, more than I'd care to admit. The physical and mental damage from the super heavyweights is extreme, waaaay more than I ever expected.

I think the rule should be that if it requires refinement, it needs to stay illegal. I know I'm a hypocrite for it but it's the damned truth. Anyone looking for whatever it is drugs will give him will find it in alcohol, tobacco, mushrooms, and marijuana. The rest just layer on extra damage that is way outside the scope of reasonable. And I know that'll just move providers out of pot and into the big nasties and the violence will remain, but I hope that more reasoned social position will allow for a more frank discussion about why the big nasties are big nasties. Kids today know we're full of shit when we crap on pot, and all it does is lessen our credibility on the rest.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Making something legal doesnt automatically make it more expensive. I think this might be true of prostitution but in the case of weed it is a substance which would be very easy for companies to grow and distribute large amounts of on the cheap where as the people currently selling it often have to go through a fair effort and they also have to pay both the grower and their foot people.[/quote]

Well, by cheap stuff I mean like bottom dollar stuff. The 'at your own risk' stuff. Do you honestly think companies would make it cheap? It'd be really stupid to since the market for it is sorta niche, and they'll pay out the ass for it no matter what it costs.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']Well, by cheap stuff I mean like bottom dollar stuff. The 'at your own risk' stuff. Do you honestly think companies would make it cheap? It'd be really stupid to since the market for it is sorta niche, and they'll pay out the ass for it no matter what it costs.[/quote]

If weed becomes, you'll have far more than one manufacturer with different prices.

In terms of a niche market, there are millions of Americans who are smoking or have smoked weed. Ghost in the Shell: StandAlone Complex is a niche product. Weed? Not so much.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']In terms of a niche market, there are millions of Americans who are smoking or have smoked weed. Ghost in the Shell: StandAlone Complex is a niche product. Weed? Not so much.[/QUOTE]
I liked Weed before it went mainstream.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Making something legal doesnt automatically make it more expensive. I think this might be true of prostitution but in the case of weed it is a substance which would be very easy for companies to grow and distribute large amounts of on the cheap where as the people currently selling it often have to go through a fair effort and they also have to pay both the grower and their foot people.[/quote]
I doubt it would even be true of prostitution, in fact, I think the opposite would be true. When something is illegal, more profits have to be built in to overcome the whole "If I get caught I'm going to jail." thing.
 
I had lunch with a guy today that lived in Columbia for a couple years. He said that their attitude about drugs was very interesting to him. They didn't understand why we condemn them for selling it to us so much, when we use it so much. But more interestingly, he rarely saw anyone doing drugs. Just once, he said.

So maybe there is something to be said for something that is so readily available losing it's appeal, I dunno.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If weed becomes, you'll have far more than one manufacturer with different prices.

In terms of a niche market, there are millions of Americans who are smoking or have smoked weed. Ghost in the Shell: StandAlone Complex is a niche product. Weed? Not so much.[/quote]

All I'm trying to say is that it's not going to be as cheap as you might think it will be if it ever came to be.
 
Farmers want to legalize "marijuana" to grow industrial hemp, the stuff with less than 1% THC not the stuff you smoke.
 
The two issues I have are:

1.) Using the downed economy as a reason to do this. Using money gained from taxing recreational habits as a means of fixing poor decisions is so ass backwards. Legalize it on its own merit if you have to.

2.) Legalizing it wouldn't transform anything. You still would have too many people dealing/growing on the sly to make their own money and because of demand for higher quality drugs. That means you're only making money off the people who need it for medical reasons or can only find the weak stuff so it's only a small portion of the potheads.
 
[quote name='davo1224']2.) Legalizing it wouldn't transform anything. You still would have too many people dealing/growing on the sly to make their own money and because of demand for higher quality drugs. That means you're only making money off the people who need it for medical reasons or can only find the weak stuff so it's only a small portion of the potheads.[/quote]

Doubtful. Any chemist in his or her junior year of college can produce very potent pot. If the only thing keeping them from having a legit and very profitable business is a little paperwork, I don't see them risking jail time.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']If they legalized weed, I'm guessing a lot less people would want to try it, thus they wouldn't see that much tax money anyway.

I mean it'd be taxed, it'd be more expensive (as most legal things are), and you'd probably need a prescription to get it over the counter.[/quote]

That doesn't make any sense. Part of the cost of marijuana is the inherent risk due to its illegality. Remove that risk and the price plummets.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Doubtful. Any chemist in his or her junior year of college can produce very potent pot. If the only thing keeping them from having a legit and very profitable business is a little paperwork, I don't see them risking jail time.[/QUOTE]

WTF a chemist? Its a plant. A junior high FFA member could produce potent pot.
 
The only way pot will be legalized is through some heavy duty lobbying. Most pot distributors and dealers aren't about to go public and start contributing to a pot lobby. The people who benefit from pot being illegal spend tons on politicians. Drug companies, law enforcement suppliers, prison builders, paper companies, and the religious right.
 
[quote name='Dzamboni']WTF a chemist? Its a plant. A junior high FFA member could produce potent pot.[/quote]

Growing a good strain, sure.

The method for isolating the THC from the plant requires acids, bases and refluxing.

They didn't teach me that in high school. I was starting to learn the techniques in the organic chemistry lab I took my sophomore year in college while getting my biology degree, but I wouldn't be comfortable performing an isolation nowadays unless the procedure was documented heavily.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']We have to really analyze exactly why pot is illegal. It can't possibly considered more dangerous to others around the user as alcohol.[/quote]

Let's legalize it! I'm serious, pot is safer than ethanol... shit, I've never admitted anyone to the hospital for a pot OD or withdrawal... doesn't really happen. EtOH intoxication/withdrawal is a daily occurence... Hell, I've even seen Wernicke's (thiamine deficiency a/w alcoholism that leads to confusion, difficulty walking and abnormal eye movements) and some early stages of Korsakoff's syndrome (confabulation and memory issue due to chronic alcohol usage... and destruction of your mammilary bodies)... hell, I've seen 190 proof EtOH in some stores... that's much more dangerous than pot!

Also, if I were a fetus, I'd much rather have my mom smoke pot than drink alcohol... much less chance of being a funny looking retard baby... (my description of fetal alcohol syndrome :D )
 
[quote name='BigT']Let's legalize it! I'm serious, pot is safer than ethanol... shit, I've never admitted anyone to the hospital for a pot OD or withdrawal... doesn't really happen. EtOH intoxication/withdrawal is a daily occurence... Hell, I've even seen Wernicke's (thiamine deficiency a/w alcoholism that leads to confusion, difficulty walking and abnormal eye movements) and some early stages of Korsakoff's syndrome (confabulation and memory issue due to chronic alcohol usage... and destruction of your mammilary bodies)... hell, I've seen 190 proof EtOH in some stores... that's much more dangerous than pot!

Also, if I were a fetus, I'd much rather have my mom smoke pot than drink alcohol... much less chance of being a funny looking retard baby... (my description of fetal alcohol syndrome :D )[/QUOTE]
I agreed with everything you said until funny looking retard baby.

Funny looking retard baby?

Holy fuck dude.
 
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