Lost Season 4 Discussion - Because You Left

Spoiler specific to tonight's awesome episode:
I know we saw him being born last season, but does anyone else now think Ben is Satan incarnate? (Even if he didn't/doesn't realize it himself.) That was my first hunch after seeing "One of Them" in Season Two, which lifted its premise and title from an old Twilight Zone episode ("The Howling Man"). I just get this impression he's more than just a diabolical genius.

Also, concerning tonight's episode,
I really hope that Desmond isn't riding to his death. From what I've (accidentally) seen on the Internet, he's NOT one of the "Oceanic Six".
 
Ack, here we go...time travel :(

I hope they do what they've been pretty good at, and not be so obvious when they lead on about something.
 
Theres still a few minutes left here on the West Coast but my early thoughts are.. am I the only one who would watch a Sayid spy thriller spinoff? :lol:
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']
Also, concerning tonight's episode,
I really hope that Desmond isn't riding to his death. From what I've (accidentally) seen on the Internet, he's NOT one of the "Oceanic Six".
[/QUOTE]
One of those two were not on the plane. Proof that more than the six make if off the island was just shown at the end. I've read the spoilers for the six, turning out true so far.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']
Also, concerning tonight's episode,
I really hope that Desmond isn't riding to his death. From what I've (accidentally) seen on the Internet, he's NOT one of the "Oceanic Six".
[/quote]


Because he wasn't on the fucking plane.

But I don't he gets off anyways, just a feeling.
 
Proof that more than the six make if off the island was just shown at the end.

You mean the 'preview' for next week's episode? Well, I really doubt that we get more than the six back to civilization. Something tells me the people from the boat will turn away everyone else, either killing them or keeping them/sending them back to the island. And concerning my previous post,
that's what worries me about Desmond. He might be seen as the most severe threat to their mission, based on his knowledge of the Widmore family and his demanding of answers. The picture provided might have been part of the original plan to lure him back to the boat. Offing him this early seems too abrupt (since we know so little about his backstory and since his powers just emerged a few 'island days' ago), not to mention that it'd piss me off fiercely. I admittedly forgot the very key detail that he wasn't on Flight 815 for a second there, but that just makes it more likely that he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Because he wasn't on the fucking plane.

Yeah, yeah, I owned my momentary oversight. Now calm down and go back to playing with a Little Sister.
 
soooo

its seems pretty obvious now that the oceanic 6 are the ones that got off the island, and the rest are on the island. but its interesting to see sayid working for ben, he must be holding a pretty good hand to pull that off.

im sure glad locke traded miles for charlotte, i fucking hate miles already.

as for the 30 minute difference between the beacon arriving... im still not convinced theyre going down the time travel road (and i really hope it doesnt turn out that way), it may just be emphasizing the unusual properties of the island.

looks like next week is a kate episode, im wondering if next week sayid will run into michael on the boat, or perhaps someone else they know.


heres the rest of the series, if the producers want to hire me, please send a pm.
season 4: the plot thickens and future flashes
season 5: split time between people on the island and people off the island
season 6: return to the island... with a vengeance
 
Michael has got to be the spy. His boat probably wound up right back where it started, just like the failed raft expedition. It's been established that navigation skill/devices don't work for shit near that island...multiple times, even for the 4th or 5th time on tonight's episode. I'm wondering if Michael and Walt came back and Michael agreed to be the spy. That maybe Ben made a deal where Michael could help the Others gain an advantage in taking over the ship. But, of course, Ben would just trick Locke into blowing it up with C4 again. ;)

And Ben being alive isn't much of a shocker. The drawer full of passports and international currency pretty much establishes that Ben comes and goes as he sees fit.
 
Well, one way or the other, I'm really getting tired of seeing Perrineau's name in the credits and not, you know, seeing him. And see, if he's on the boat, then in all likelihood, so is Walt, but clearly Malcolm David Kelley has hit puberty, so while his appearance last season can be explained by time-twisting antics and his powers, having him age so blatantly in the show's equivalent of a couple months won't.

Then again, they'd be the Oceanic Two if they made it home, wouldn't they? Oh, fuck, always back at Square One with this show!

EDIT: And if you listen to one of the official podcasts from late last season, Lindelof specifically tells people to 'have faith' that they realize the real-world circumstances of having Kelley grow up during the show's run. They apparently have an explanation in the wings. I just hope it's up to snuff with most of what they've done so far.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Proof that more than the six make if off the island was just shown at the end.

You mean the 'preview' for next week's episode? Well, I really doubt that we get more than the six back to civilization.[/QUOTE]
Didn't you see the end of the episode?
Sayid was working for Ben. Ben was fixing up Sayid's bullet wound. They are apparently taking on whatever organization all these new people are with

Don't click this if you don't want to know the last two of the six....
Sun and Jin are the other two apparently. Episode 7 is a huge episode for their story. I could still see other flight survivors making it off the island besides the six. Other than non-815 survivors, I could see Sawyer making it back somehow but not letting it be known. The flash forward from the last season finale had Kate staying with someone and its implied he would be upset she went to see Jack. Point is the door is definitely open for more than just the six to be making it back.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']soooo

its seems pretty obvious now that the oceanic 6 are the ones that got off the island, and the rest are on the island. but its interesting to see sayid working for ben, he must be holding a pretty good hand to pull that off.

im sure glad locke traded miles for charlotte, i fucking hate miles already.

as for the 30 minute difference between the beacon arriving... im still not convinced theyre going down the time travel road (and i really hope it doesnt turn out that way), it may just be emphasizing the unusual properties of the island.

looks like next week is a kate episode, im wondering if next week sayid will run into michael on the boat, or perhaps someone else they know.


heres the rest of the series, if the producers want to hire me, please send a pm.
season 4: the plot thickens and future flashes
season 5: split time between people on the island and people off the island
season 6: return to the island... with a vengeance
[/QUOTE]



season 7 everyone is off the island and the polar bears have a massive party with the dragons LOL
 
Well now I'm afraid to click on spoiler tags because I don't want the rest of the Six spoiled for me but I also want to talk about the ep. Dilemma.

Regardless (Non-Six spoiler):
I wouldn't mind some kind of time dimension stuff with the payload if they can use it to explain other things. I really won't be upset to see anything as long as they can craft a cohesive explanation out of it. Other than zombies. We could do without zombies, if the Russian guy doesn't count.
 
Didn't you see the end of the episode?

Yeah, of course, but I was specifically thinking of the survivors of 815. The preview
specifically shows many of Jack's group being told that a plan or deal was in place for the people from the freighter to get them off the island. Obviously, something changed between that moment and the flashforwards we've seen.

I also think that Walt might be the one communicating with Ben, as I always thought that Walt 'assimilated' with the Others while he was their captive. Note the Season Two finale where Ben tells Michael how Walt "joined us", a statement that was worded so it could be taken two ways. Also, we know Walt can appear where he's "not supposed to be". Michael, on the other hand, I could see being clueless and frustrated, walking around the ship asking "Man, when the hell are we going home?? You promised us you'd take me and my son home!!"

Then again, that doesn't explain Walt's growth in such a short period. And we all know that based on Locke's statements alone, the show isn't trying to ignore the difference.
 
Well I think it's fairly obvious now that the island is indeed in the past. I think the "crazy guy" has a notion of this now and knows that the helicopter has entered the bubble of the island in a very small window and if it doesn't exit the way it came, it will crash or get caught up inside of some manner of time paradox thing. What we know for sure now through seeing this episode is that Ben certainly knows the way out and uses it frequently due to all those passports and foreign money. Plus he seems to have a "bible" for every religion.
 
Does anyone know if they said how many days into thier trip they stopped putting the numbers into the computer? This episode was 100 days into it, and I'm trying to figure out if there is a correlation between the time between that old episode and this new one, specifically as far as those 31 minutes go.
 
The Swan might have been blown up/imploded (and somehow I think it's a little of both) about a month before this episode. It's hard to say. We really haven't had many specific announcements of 'island time' milestones since the show began. I wouldn't look backwards too much for meaning in that time discrepancy, but rather remember it for future references.

We know what their basic "primary objective" is, but I wonder what the individual functions of each of the team assembled are, particularly Charlotte. This is something I'm counting on them clearly answering by the end of this season.

P.S. Thank God this show has a definitive finish line, so we don't have to see Jack somehow replaced by a character played by Robert Patrick for a couple seasons (and that character already exists, if you'll recall)!
 
Charlotte seems to be a Dharma investigator. She found that polar bear in the desert and the ruins of what looked like a Dharma crate. Perhaps Dharma went back to the Ice Age and captured it? At this point, it's almost a waste of time to guess, since the show always reveals a truth so far from your best guess.
 
Amen to that, brotha!

I'm more befuddled than ever as to who is "light" and who is "dark" in the 'coming war'. Was Dharma ever really benevolent to begin with? From the supplemental material I've seen online, it seems like either way, it took a turn for the worse after Alvar Hanso washed his hands of it.

On the 'other' (rimshot) hand, I can't seem to accept that Ben really is one of the "good guys", at least in the purest sense of the word.
 
Bens a good guy in the sense that he wants "whats best for the majority of people"

Or at least that's my take on him. He's ruthless but he wants to help everyone on the island.
 
The big reveal of Ben at the end of the last episode was great, but could have been much better. They sort of ruined it by having you hear his voice before showing his face.
 
http://tviv.org/Lost/Timeline_2

Shows day 67 as the day that they stopped putting in the numbers. For this timeline, they only go up through day 93, which would be the last two episodes. Of course none of this official, but seems pretty legit.

All that rambling being said, that gives a difference of 27 days... not exactly lining up with my small theory of the days since they stopped putting in the numbers equalling how many minutes it was off.

Close though.
 
Episode 4.04: Eggtown (Kate-centric)
Airdate: February 21, 2008
  • 02/06 - Kate's need to get information out of the hostage may jeopardize her standing with Locke -- as well as with Sawyer. Guest starring are Ken Leung as Miles, Jeremy Davies as Daniel Faraday, Rebecca Mader as Charlotte, Shawn Doyle as Duncan Forrester, Susan Gibney as Melissa Dunbrook, Traber Burns as judge, Fred Q. Collins as bailiff, Beth Broderick as Diane Jansen, Tania Kahale as nanny and William Blanchette as child. Source: ABC
  • 01/23 - When Kate eventually gets the flash-forward treatment, expect the episode to address how the freckled fugitive -- on the run for torching her dad while he slept -- was free for that teary reunion with Jack. "How is it she's not in jail?" [Evangeline] Lilly asks. "Did she already serve her time? Was she pardoned when she got back?" Another burning Kate question: Who is the "he" referred to by onetime commitment-phobe Kate when she implied to Jack that someone was waiting for her at home? "Kate's kind of got her s--- together," Lilly says, "and the reason she's coping quite well is that person." Source: TV Guide
  • 01/02 - [Episode 4] had one of the best endings I've seen. Sawyer and Kate fans will not be happy! [The episode] features an amazing twist. Source: Lost Spoilers
  • 12/31 - Eggs are one of the first things we see in episode 4. Source: DocArzt's Lost Blog
  • 10/14 - Kate pleads not guilty to a laundry list of crimes, including murder, assault and weapons charges. Source: Hawaii Blog
  • 10/14 - The woman we saw on the balcony is called Susan and she is one of the lawyers on Kate's trial. Source: Lost Spoilers
  • 10/14 - Down in the underground parking lot for the capitol building, near the guard booth and lower entrance off Miller St., a clean-shaven, leather-jacket wearing Jack has a brief conversation with the striking, poised Kate we saw at the end of Season 3. Jack steps away from an older, brown pickup truck, not unlike the one Locke drove in one of his flashbacks, to talk to Kate. There's some awkwardness, but there are also some smiles. Eventually, Jack helps Kate get into a yellow taxi cab, and watches as it drives away. Does this basement parking lot scene come before or after her chaotic courtroom arrival, or even in the same year? Source: Hawaii Blog
  • 10/06 - Lost took over much of the Capitol District in downtown Honolulu today, including parts of the Hawaii State Capitol and the nearby Laniakea YWCA. Deep inside the Capitol, a police interrogation. Across the street, a courtroom. But out front, it was a madhouse. It was the trial of Kate Austen, and it was a flash forward. For Episode 4 of Season 4, the Capitol building played a Los Angeles courthouse this morning in a scene so dramatic it was reported to real newsrooms around Honolulu. Action is called. Kate arrives in a black Lincoln Town Car, with Los Angeles police cruiser and motorcycle escorts. A mob of people, plus journalist and TV news crews (news vans from channel 6 and 19 were on the scene), are waiting. The people boo, hiss, shout "Murderer!" from behind the barricades as Kate is ushered inside. At first blush, it sounds like it could be a flashback, relating to one of Kate's many pre-crash crimes. But I have it on good authority that it was indeed a flash forward. although that fact may not be readily apparent as the story unfolds! Source: Hawaii Blog
  • 10/03 - They're currently shooting Episode 4, and multiple sources confirm that it's a Kate-centric outing that features flashbacks and/or flash-forwards. Source: Ask Ausiello @ TV Guide
  • 09/26 - Lost Spoilers offers us a summary of the spoilers revealed in the latest podcast: We will find out if Kate is pregnant around episode 4.04 set to air in March 2008. Source: Lost Podcasts
  • 09/17 - An upcoming episode (4.04?) will feature characters Mark Forrester, a corporate type cocky man in his 40s; Arthur Galzethron, the 60-year-old president of a corporation; and Melissa Waters, a confident business woman in her 40s. Source: SpoilerFix.com
 
The preview for this week's episode really pissed me off.

I mean, we *know* kate is one of the oceanic six. She was in the fucking season finale last year. So when they started talking about how "next week, they'd reveal another member of the six" to have it end up being freckles, I was pretty disappointed.
 
[quote name='DJSteel']you know that is Tom Cruise's Cousin right[/quote]

Yup, perhaps the Others are all DUM DUM DUM...Scientologists!!! tried to forcibly brainwash/convert Claire, among others.
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Spoiler specific to tonight's awesome episode:
I know we saw him being born last season, but does anyone else now think Ben is Satan incarnate? (Even if he didn't/doesn't realize it himself.) That was my first hunch after seeing "One of Them" in Season Two, which lifted its premise and title from an old Twilight Zone episode ("The Howling Man"). I just get this impression he's more than just a diabolical genius.

Also, concerning tonight's episode,
I really hope that Desmond isn't riding to his death. From what I've (accidentally) seen on the Internet, he's NOT one of the "Oceanic Six".
[/quote]

He could never BE one of the Oceanic Six, because he was never on Oceanic Flight 815. Those 6 only count the actual survivors of the crash that leave the island and make it back to 'the real world' - thus Ben, the helicopter people, the others, the Dharma initiative members, Desmond, Mikhail, etc. could never be considered part of the Oceanic 6. So far we have 4 of the 6, yeah? And of course Vincent wouldn't count either as he's not human.

Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid
 
[quote name='CouRageouS']One of those two were not on the plane. Proof that more than the six make if off the island was just shown at the end. I've read the spoilers for the six, turning out true so far.[/quote]

Got a link to your spoilers?
 
[quote name='SpottedNigel']Does anyone know if they said how many days into thier trip they stopped putting the numbers into the computer? This episode was 100 days into it, and I'm trying to figure out if there is a correlation between the time between that old episode and this new one, specifically as far as those 31 minutes go.[/QUOTE]


they been on the island for 100 days BUT i dont think they have ever said how much time has past off the island. they told the copter dude to stay on course no matter what happens. I hope this does not turn out to be another triangle Clone BS
 
[quote name='jollydwarf']Well, one way or the other, I'm really getting tired of seeing Perrineau's name in the credits and not, you know, seeing him. And see, if he's on the boat, then in all likelihood, so is Walt, but clearly Malcolm David Kelley has hit puberty, so while his appearance last season can be explained by time-twisting antics and his powers, having him age so blatantly in the show's equivalent of a couple months won't.

Then again, they'd be the Oceanic Two if they made it home, wouldn't they? Oh, fuck, always back at Square One with this show!

EDIT: And if you listen to one of the official podcasts from late last season, Lindelof specifically tells people to 'have faith' that they realize the real-world circumstances of having Kelley grow up during the show's run. They apparently have an explanation in the wings. I just hope it's up to snuff with most of what they've done so far.[/quote]

That one is so easy to get out of...easiest cop out would be to say that time is flowing at a different rate on and around the island than out in the real world. Remember, the plane crashed in 2004 (on the series premiere date, Sep. 16th or whatever it was)...while only a few months may have passed on the island, it could be that years have passed in the real world. I wouldn't be surprised if they use that excuse eventually.

As for Michael and Walt not actually getting off the island, that was one of the few times I believe Ben didn't lie - he specifically told them to follow an exact course/heading and they would make it, but could never come back. He could still be the spy, yeah, having been picked up or hired by the freighter's crew and Naomi's people to somehow lead them/get back to the island.
 
[quote name='karkyco']That one is so easy to get out of...easiest cop out would be to say that time is flowing at a different rate on and around the island than out in the real world. Remember, the plane crashed in 2004 (on the series premiere date, Sep. 16th or whatever it was)...while only a few months may have passed on the island, it could be that years have passed in the real world. I wouldn't be surprised if they use that excuse eventually.

As for Michael and Walt not actually getting off the island, that was one of the few times I believe Ben didn't lie - he specifically told them to follow an exact course/heading and they would make it, but could never come back. He could still be the spy, yeah, having been picked up or hired by the freighter's crew and Naomi's people to somehow lead them/get back to the island.[/quote]

Yea Michael probably is the spy! He's supposed to come back this season!
 
I have no doubt that Michael will be on the freighter, but I sincerely doubt he has his proverbial shit together enough to be the spy. I mean, he wouldn't have any way of contacting Ben or access to the vital information that Ben started spouting about Charlotte, or anything like that, would he? He kind of just drove off in his boat.

Unless it ties into the asynchronous time flow in the island...in the couple of weeks that have passed since Jack, Kate, and Sawyer were captured, a year has passed in which Michael managed to make it home (somehow discreetly), was "recruited" by Ben and somehow infiltrated the freighter crew (but why would Walt be with him on the boat?).
 
Very somber episode, but very good. Next week's looks to be outstanding, though.

"Eggtown"-specific spoiler:
Locke is turning into quite the power-tripping dick. Kind of his dream, I guess. I still think that he's a solid candidate to become the leader of the new wave of "Hostiles" by the end of the series (that's just a theory of mine). Also, after seeing a transcribed blast door map, I noticed that one of the Latin lines says "Save yourself from Hell". I really get the impression that Locke is the most likely to be damned (save maybe Michael), probably getting some sort of Serlingesque fate before it's all over. He just can't let go of his past...at all, even if he's had plenty of chances.
 
Nothing to add besides Locke's getting more and more crazier...and has some weird explosion fetish. as depicted here in Locke's Excellent Adventure: A Retrospective in Insanity

Contains Spoilers for those who havent Seen seasons 1-3
LOST__Locke__s_Badass_Journey_by_Buuya.jpg

Also for more of Teh funny, this is a good recap of Season 3's finale

LOST__Season_3_Finale_ly_by_Buuya.jpg


Credit goes to this Guy http://buuya.deviantart.com/
 
I hope someone caught a screen capture of the dude with a beard that we saw when Kate was walking into the courthouse. I don't remember where but I could have sworn we've seen that guy before
 
[quote name='fart_bubble']I hope someone caught a screen capture of the dude with a beard that we saw when Kate was walking into the courthouse. I don't remember where but I could have sworn we've seen that guy before[/quote]

I thought it was Hurley (obviously), but replayed on slow-mo and it looks like a body double..I mean it resembles him, but that's it.

I'm glad my 2 least favorite characters ended up dying on this show....1st Charlie and now Claire, who I can only assume/hope dies. Although she could just be on the island still while the Six got off.

Waiting for next week's promo to pop up on youtube :(...Funny how the fake posting for it is actually a lame Turkish drama. fuckin Turks, always gotta mess around!
 
so...

i guess aaron is one of the oceanic six? didnt see that coming. i suppose you could conjecture that at the end of season 3 when kate told jack that "he" will wonder where she is, she could have been talking about aaron, and not another man (sawyer).
 
The "he" Kate was talking about was probably her parole officer. It's starting to look like it wasn't Sawyer.

What interests me the most about tonight's episode
Jack said 8 people lived, but 6 were rescued. So one must be the dead mystery character in the coffin? But that means there's another dead survivor. But Jack didn't go to that coffin until well after it was known there were only 6 survivors. So who is in the coffin and who is this 8th person? Argh...it's like putting together a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle without a box cover to look at.
.
 
[quote name='crunchb3rry']The "he" Kate was talking about was probably her parole officer. It's starting to look like it wasn't Sawyer.

What interests me the most about tonight's episode
Jack said 8 people lived, but 6 were rescued. So one must be the dead mystery character in the coffin? But that means there's another dead survivor. But Jack didn't go to that coffin until well after it was known there were only 6 survivors. So who is in the coffin and who is this 8th person? Argh...it's like putting together a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle without a box cover to look at.
.[/quote]

2 of the 8 would have died on the island according to their story (hence the Oceanic 6).
 
Waiting for next week's promo to pop up on youtube

The official ABC site will most likely have it soon enough, but in the meantime, I watched it over and over, and...

Speculation/spoiler
--It appears that somehow, at some point in 'time', the helicopter makes it to the boat. We see Sayid starting to walk out, armed, with the sea in the background and only a few feet below him.

--There is a shot in which Desmond is apparently onboard the freighter and a guy we've never seen before storms in. Looks threatening. There also appears to be a white, bald guy in the shot.

--It looks like Ben might be getting out of his holding cell, as what looks like a computer monitor light is reflected on his face, and the background appears to be more brightly lit.

--This is the strangest moment. A clean-shaven Desmond is accosting a longer-haired Dan, shoving him into a flippable chalkboard with all sorts of complex equations on it. This is when he emphatically wants to know if he's gonna die. This doesn't seem like it could be one of his straight-forward visions. Could 'future Dan' already be back on the boat??

--Desmond appears to be going mad in just about every shot he's in in this preview. So get ready for an awesome episode, maybe the best yet this season.

It really seems like this season is going to be the darkest yet. The actor who played Tom ("Mr. Friendly") did say in an interview that aired at last year's Comic-Con that "The Others" are philanthropists compared to the people coming to the island. We shall see. (But I think he's right.)

EDIT: I hope someone caught a screen capture of the dude with a beard that we saw when Kate was walking into the courthouse. I don't remember where but I could have sworn we've seen that guy before

He didn't look particularly familiar, except that he had the haggard look of an "Other" in theatrical makeup, but...what was he saying?? I couldn't quite make it out.

P.S. In the last scene, I'm hoping
everyone noticed the paint job in Aaron's room? Look familiar?
 
[quote name='Matt Young']Was that Nadia (Sayid's girl) on the jury for Kate's trial?[/QUOTE]


i think nadia is dead....also what was up with the background noise. first when sawyer hands the glass of wine to kate and then when kate knocks on locke door


Anyone watch SUPERNATURAL last week. Said something about a Magnetic force can rip holes in time and space (COUGH COUGH HATCH with the big magnet)

also got to wonder. How fast was kate tossed in jail. Her mother said she been told she had 6 months to live for the last 4 years since she saw kate 100 days on the island = 4 years in real time


ALSO the memory game they couldnt remember the cards wonder what was up with that


I thought desmond was talking to a future desmond. OR it could even back in the 70s since it looked like an old class room... Maybe they was pushing their theories back in the 70s

Remember Jack said there was 8 people and 2 died in the crash..... That kate helped these people but died. he didnt say she helped them on the island so maybe 8 people get off the island. That plane crashes (shot down) and that is where claire dies.

overall last nigt show was sort of lame

also here something to think about the others .... maybe they are all the Maya's who disappeared long time again. Remember they said they were going to a temple. Bens room had a massive star chart on the walls .... i think the maya people were really into the star thing this could also explain the big foot since they built stuff like that


and once again

Anyone watch SUPERNATURAL last week. Said something about a Magnetic force can rip holes in time and space (COUGH COUGH HATCH with the big magnet)
 
I totally didn't see that twist coming. I was expecting to hear "Hello: Jack or James or Sawyer before Aaron. Hell, I wouldn't have been less shocked if she said Ben.

I'm guessing that Aaron doesn't count as part of the 6 due to his age.
 
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