Mac vs PC: Let's start a war!

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strikeratt

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So I hope to bring in a nice heated debate. Particularly without insults but I'd imagine they're going to surface. I hope this is in the right section as well. I hope to keep the OP updated so others can just glance at the information they enter into the argument. Let's start it off.

I'm a PC. Why would I ever buy a Mac?
 
Who cares. Use what ever you like.

I use PCs as that's what I started on and they're dominate in my field so it's too much hassle to do collaborative work with others if you're not on a PC as you'd just end up running Windows programs in bootcamp a lot of the time anyway.

I do have an iPad 2, but I'm a bit disgruntled with it.
 
[quote name='strikeratt']So I hope to bring in a nice heated debate. Particularly without insults but I'd imagine they're going to surface. I hope this is in the right section as well. I hope to keep the OP updated so others can just glance at the information they enter into the argument. Let's start it off.

I'm a PC. Why would I ever buy a Mac?[/QUOTE]

ballmer-sweatbands.jpg
 
There is only a single thing that I have ever heard someone say positive about a mac and felt it was true. Mac products hold their value better then their PC counterparts. Very true....but does not change that Macs are trash in most other ways.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']There is only a single thing that I have ever heard someone say positive about a mac and felt it was true. Mac products hold their value better then their PC counterparts. Very true....but does not change that Macs are trash in most other ways.[/QUOTE]

Literally, the only thing I can think of as a downsides for Macs are the price. EVERYTHING else is fine. Fantastic case, good hardware, excellent software, etc. The price may be high, but they're not shitty computers.
 
The thing I like most about my macbook pro in comparison to my windows notebook is the trackpad. The macbook pro trackpad pretty much dominates every other trackpad. When I use my windows notebook I always use it with a wireless mouse, while I don't feel the need to do so when using my macbook pro.

Another positive is when connecting my macbook to my HDTV. It simply works the exact way I want it to, while with my windows notebook doesn't always work the way I want it to, and can get a bit wonky.
 
Macs are just pc's built with high-end parts that can only (without hassle) run a heavily specialized Unix OS with a GUI shell. If that's what you want, you'll enjoy it.

Being a CAG, I perfer the cheapness and customizable OS's of real PC's myself.
 
[quote name='Access_Denied']Literally, the only thing I can think of as a downsides for Macs are the price. EVERYTHING else is fine. Fantastic case, good hardware, excellent software, etc. The price may be high, but they're not shitty computers.[/QUOTE]

If you don't know alot about computers, you have no desire to become a power user, and you're willing to pay extra for a hassle-free computer experience then Macs are great.
 
In terms of towers I would say PC's are have an edge in money to power ratio. In terms of laptops, macs are about on edge with most of the market when hardware (including casing and keyboard) are taken into consideration.
 
[quote name='SpazX']They're both fine. You can run Windows on Macs now if you want.[/QUOTE]

But what's the point of doing that? Then you're paying more and not getting the things Mac users like with the OS, lesser virus risks etc.

That's the two reasons I don't use Mac. First, I need windows as not all the software I use for work is on Mac and I do lots of collaborative work with colleagues who are all on PC and don't want to deal with any compatibility issues. Second, Macs are too pricey as they don't really offer any low to mid-level machines. I don't need a full powered machine as I don't really do anything multimedia related on my PCs, so I generally won't play more than $800-1,000 for a laptop and less than that for a desktop.
 
I don't think running exclusively Windows would make a lot of sense, but you can run both, whereas getting Mac OS to run on a PC is a lot more of a pain in the ass. That way you get good Apple hardware, Mac OS, and you don't sacrifice the ability to run software that's only for Windows.
 
I guess. Just not worth the hassle and cost for me. But I have a lot of problems with Apple's business practices as well, though that's mainly on the iOS side. But in any case, the iPad will probably be my last purchase of an Apple product.
 
I've owned a Mac and my wife continues to do so, definitely easy and nice to use. Ultimately though, I didn't use enough Mac programs to make it worth it and dual-booting was a hassle. Very nice hardware though.
 
Alright here is my view. I am the ideal target market for Macs because I am young and work in television,film and broadcast production as well as a shit ton of indie stuff. Jobs would get a hard on for me.

One, it baffles me why anyone who doesnt work in my field would even want a Mac for any reason. PCs run everything that Macs run with way more options and far more likely to be supported. Macs are built for multimedia everything after that is just a gimmick. You just spent a arm and a leg when you are only using 30% of what the machine has to offer.

Here are the facts in my book, I can build/have built a PC that can run Avid that would be 20% less than its Mac counter part. On the other hand FCP is cheaper than a good Avid system.

So its either pay out the ass for the software or pay out the nose for the machine.


Macs have cornered the market on "weak minded" people, that is not to say that owning a Mac is stupid its saying that most people have no idea why they own a Mac or need to use their software. I run into many a producer who demand that we use FCP with the only reasoning being that...."its what we are suppose to use." Again this isnt to say that Macs are not good...they are amazing but just like with Ipods, Ipads and many other Apple products most people have no idea why they are purchasing them other than its the cool thing to do.

One last note....here is the overall impression of Ipads from all of my production friends. "I can do work on a Ipad...but not real work....that I have to do on my Tablet or Laptop."
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']One last note....here is the overall impression of Ipads from all of my production friends. "I can do work on a Ipad...but not real work....that I have to do on my Tablet or Laptop."[/QUOTE]

Yep. There are only two types of work related things I do on my iPad.

1. Read and mark up some PDFs. i.e. some journal article I'm doing a review of.

2. Taking short notes in meetings--but can't be detailed notes as I can't type fast enough on for that, and if I might as well bring a laptop if I need a keyboard instead of also bring a bluetooth keyboard.

But I knew all that going in as my girlfriend has had an iPad 1 since launch. I bought it for those tasks and for reading the news, surfing the net on the couch etc.

It's pretty good for those purposes, but I'll happily ditch it down the road for some tablet from MS that hopefully has MS Office, usb drive support etc. so I can at least do some basic work on it when traveling instead of lugging my 15" Thinkpad.
 
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I love the "Macs are more expensive and the hardware isn't that much better" line of reasoning as it completely ignores the fact that you get more preloaded software with a Mac than you do with any other brand. Seriously, find me a preloaded audio software that's as robust as Garage Band. How about a full fledged Office Suite? Nope, gotta get MS Outlook/Excel/Access/Word/Powerpoint as a separate deal, not cheap. Seriously, you get Windows, Minesweeper and Internet Explorer on a new PC. If you're lucky it'll actually work out of the box with the software that's there.
But getting a ton of great software on Mac doesn't contribute to its value, that's just silly!
 
Oh, the software does count. It's just useless to a lot of people.

I don't need Garage Band or that kind of stuff. The office software is useless to me as I have to use MS Office at that's what's used in my field, and the iWorks stuff wrecks formatting on complex documents when converted to Word or Powerpoint etc.

It's fine if you're just working on your own, or making simple text documents etc. but not useful for those of us writing papers full of tables, charts etc. with multiple co-authors etc. who are all on MS Office on PCs.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Oh, the software does count. It's just useless to a lot of people.

I don't need Garage Band or that kind of stuff. The office software is useless to me as I have to use MS Office at that's what's used in my field, and the iWorks stuff wrecks formatting on complex documents when converted to Word or Powerpoint etc.

It's fine if you're just working on your own, or making simple text documents etc. but not useful for those of us writing papers full of tables, charts etc. with multiple co-authors etc. who are all on MS Office on PCs.[/QUOTE]
If you can't use SAS, it's useless. :D

I was about to say that my folks got ripped off because it didn't come with office after what nasum said...lolz.

Oh, and the only thing I like about Apple laptops is the screen, even then I hate the reflective coating. fuck Apple and their shiney shit.

PC fo life!
 
[quote name='nasum']I love the "Macs are more expensive and the hardware isn't that much better" line of reasoning as it completely ignores the fact that you get more preloaded software with a Mac than you do with any other brand. Seriously, find me a preloaded audio software that's as robust as Garage Band. How about a full fledged Office Suite? Nope, gotta get MS Outlook/Excel/Access/Word/Powerpoint as a separate deal, not cheap. Seriously, you get Windows, Minesweeper and Internet Explorer on a new PC. If you're lucky it'll actually work out of the box with the software that's there.
But getting a ton of great software on Mac doesn't contribute to its value, that's just silly![/QUOTE]

Open Office and Audacity FTW

If clicking on a download link and following an install wizard is challenging for you, then I agree, buy a Mac.
 
[quote name='dohdough']If you can't use SAS, it's useless. :D
[/QUOTE]

I've actually barely used SAS. Mainly SPPS, along with Stata and some LISREL. Some random stats stuff for power analysis and meta analysis, and ArcMap for GIS stuff.
 
Yes, the only thing there is Garage Band... Ya got me.
iLife has what is essentially a slightly nerfed version of all the high end creative products available for Mac, preloaded and ready to go. Plug 'n Play actually works (amazing I know), more stable software as there are maybe 1/5th of the drivers needed, and so on and so forth.

Yeah, the one button mouse thing is bullshit.

If tinkering with your PC is what it takes to make your penis bigger, then by all means, ridicule me for preferring to have a computer that works.
 
I wasn't saying that Garage Band was the only thing, just that I don't use ANY of that kind of stuff.

I don't do any creative work. I don't edit music. I don't make home videos. I don't edit photos etc. So none of that stuff is useful for me.

All my computers gets used for is work (MS Office and stats programs), internet and e-mail. I'm not a big computer user and try to stay off them if I'm not working. I'm also not much of a tinkering type. I don't install/upgrade hardware--I just buy new machines every few years. Never had any plug and play issues with USB or bluetooth hardware. Stability isn't much of an issue anymore on Windows either. XP was much more stable than the prior versions, and I've had hardly any issues with Windows 7.

Anyway, I'd never ridicule someone for using Mac. I couldn't give a rat's ass what type of computer someone uses. Just saying Macs aren't for me as I don't need the power (and they don't sell mid to low range spec'd machines) or the software they provide personally, my work colleagues are all on PCs so it's easier to use a PC to do collaborative work, and some of the software I use is only on the PC.
 
[quote name='nasum']Yes, the only thing there is Garage Band... Ya got me.
iLife has what is essentially a slightly nerfed version of all the high end creative products available for Mac, preloaded and ready to go. Plug 'n Play actually works (amazing I know), more stable software as there are maybe 1/5th of the drivers needed, and so on and so forth.

Yeah, the one button mouse thing is bullshit.

If tinkering with your PC is what it takes to make your penis bigger, then by all means, ridicule me for preferring to have a computer that works.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I would trade Garage Band and ILife for free productivity software. I've never understood why they just don't bundle that in. We still ended up getting Office as my wife or I were not really fans of the Mac office suite. Also, if you're paying more to begin with, aren't you really just paying for the software then?
 
[quote name='docvinh'] Also, if you're paying more to begin with, aren't you really just paying for the software then?[/QUOTE]

Well, from what I've seen Macs don't really cost more than PCs with equal specs (or at least not drastically more). The prices just seem higher as they don't really offer the low to mid-end type models that PC companies like Dell or HP do. But Mac prices are fairly similar to say the Dell XPS line with similar specs.


The issue is that I, like many people who only use PCs for work and internet/e-mail, don't need XPS level specs and thus can buy cheaper PCs. With Mac you don't have that lower level, lower priced option available as the cheapest laptop of theirs starts at $1,000.

Point being, Macs aren't overpriced for the specs. They're just overpowered for the average user.


And I agree it would be nice for Macs or PCs to come with MS Office. Though I can't complain since Office only costs $25 to buy from my University to install on my personal computer.
 
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[quote name='Soodmeg']


Macs have cornered the market on "weak minded" people, that is not to say that owning a Mac is stupid its saying that most people have no idea why they own a Mac or need to use their software. I run into many a producer who demand that we use FCP with the only reasoning being that...."its what we are suppose to use." Again this isnt to say that Macs are not good...they are amazing but just like with Ipods, Ipads and many other Apple products most people have no idea why they are purchasing them other than its the cool thing to do."[/QUOTE]

This is idiotic.
 
The weak minded comment is overboard, but he has a point.

I have plenty of friends who own Macbooks and literally do nothing with them but internet, e-mail and MS office. Maybe also storing and playing MP3s and storing pictures from their cameras or phones (but do no editing of them) among the younger folks.

But at the same time, I know just as many people with Dell XPS's etc. who only do the same basic stuff.

So buying much more powerful computers than one actually needs isn't exclusive to Mac users. Many people just buy higher end computers when they could get by with a low-end laptop/desktop or even a netbook in many cases.

It's just a flaw of our society, people are consumerists and always feel a need to by higher end gadgets than they need, fancy cars, bigger houses than they need etc.
 
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That was what I was thinking. It's not just Mac Users. People buy all kind of shit they have not intention of using the the fullest. Hell, how many SUVs sold during the last 2 decades where used for "fully".

but to suggest people are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars without knowing why you are doing it is dumb.
 
[quote name='usickenme']This is idiotic.[/QUOTE]

Must of hit a nerve there. Sorry what I said is very true and I will stick with the weak minded comment also.

Macs are amazing multimedia platform, they are built for multimedia purposes, if you are not using it for those reasons you ware wasting a huge portion of it.

I asked all non production Mac users why they bought the machine if the only thing they are going to run on it is Office and a bunch of gimmicky software that they only play round with for 3 days all of which you can get on a PC for cheaper. None of them have an answer.

Anyone who would spend an extra 400 plus dollars without any valid reason is weak minded in my opinion because you clearly didnt do any research and just went with the flow. Its not just Macs vs PCs its everything....being CAGs I research my ass off before spending a single cent on things..I think anyone who buys anything without knowing why is a big reason why our economy tanked.

Also, usickenme, your post is confusing, first you say that I am idiotic for thinking in this line but then you agree with dmaul that people buy all types of things that they dont use to the fullest...you even list a great example of the SUVs when they were popular. The of the most wasteful times in our recent history. Then you close by saying its dumb for me to think people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollar without knowing why.

What is your stand here because you are flip flopping more than the shoe of the same name.
 
If you are getting a XPS you also get XPS tech support, which is better than regular Dell tech support.
 
[quote name='usickenme']
but to suggest people are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars without knowing why you are doing it is dumb.[/QUOTE]

Not dumb at all as it happens all the time. People get pressured/suckered by sales people into buying more expensive computers or TVs or cars etc. everyday. Or just buy it as a status symbol, or just assume they need a top of the line thing and buy the most expensive model with out doing research to see what they need etc.

It's just dumb to suggest it's exclusive to Mac users or any other category. No product group has a monopoly on sheep who make uniformed purchases.

[quote name='62t']If you are getting a XPS you also get XPS tech support, which is better than regular Dell tech support.[/QUOTE]

I never use tech support anyway. (Plus moot currently as the only computer I have is my work provided laptop and the IT people deal with any issues).

And can't you get the better tech support by buying a warranty from Dell which is probably cheaper than paying more for an XPS if you don't need the extra power?
 
[quote name='usickenme']some yes. Most? =Dumb[/QUOTE]

I was just responding to your post which I quoted. "Most" was not included in it.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']

Also, usickenme, your post is confusing, first you say that I am idiotic for thinking in this line but then you agree with dmaul that people buy all types of things that they dont use to the fullest...you even list a great example of the SUVs when they were popular. The of the most wasteful times in our recent history. Then you close by saying its dumb for me to think people are spending hundreds of thousands of dollar without knowing why.

What is your stand here because you are flip flopping more than the shoe of the same name.[/QUOTE]

I apologize for my bluntness.

There are 3 flaws with your point.

#1.) It's anecdotal which doesn't count for much. "most" people I know use their Mac for a wide variety of purposes. Does that make it true?
#2.) you act as if only Mac users do this. Everyone does.
#3.) You say most people (i.e.) the majority of people buy Macs and ipod, etc. for no real reason. Some do but most don't.

Furthermore, Who cares how someone uses a computer?
 
[quote name='usickenme']some yes. Most? =Dumb[/QUOTE]

I was just responding to your post you quoted. "Most" was not included in it.

[quote name='usickenme']
but to suggest people are spending hundreds or thousands of dollars without knowing why you are doing it is dumb.[/QUOTE]

But honestly, I bet most people don't make very informed computer purchases and just buy a mac book, or dell laptop that's on sale without a whole lot of thought into what they need in terms of specs. More focus would go into what software they need for school etc. rather than how much power, memory etc. they truly need. Most people just aren't very knowledgeable on that kind of stuff.

Also, I don't see where Soodmeg said "most" in his post you quoted either. He just said "people" not "most people."

All that said, I see a ton of college students in classes I'm teaching who are always whining about tuition increases, book prices etc. typing notes on Macbook Pros when I bet the vast majority don't use them for anything more than MS Office, internet, e-mail and iTunes and could have saved at least $500 by getting a mid-range Dell or other PC. Of course those kids with the Macbook pros are probably just whining for no real reason as their parents probably bought it for them and also pay their tuition etc. :D
 
see below. Sorry for the semantics discussion but words mean things for a reason.

[quote name='Soodmeg']

Macs have cornered the market on "weak minded" people, that is not to say that owning a Mac is stupid its saying that most people have no idea why they own a Mac or need to use their software.
"[/QUOTE]

an extra $500 doesn't go that far in college today and let's be honest, those kids are whining no matter what computer they have.
 
Ah, that was back a few posts so I missed it since it wasn't in the posts you were quoting in your last few replies.

In any case, I never said or implied that I thought most people are sheep when it comes to purchasing things, so I'm not sure why you threw that at me a few posts back.

Anyway, I agree that original comment by him was out of line. I think most Mac users have sound reasons for buying them--multimedia software, stability, less virus/spyware issues etc.

The only exception again is college students. I don't think most of the kids my criminal justice classes, for example, need Macs (much less Macbook Pros) or have any reasons they could give for buying them over a cheaper PC other than hype or image as there's really no specific advantage to Macs for the social sciences since the only needed software is MS office and maybe some stats software (though they'll mostly go to the computer lab for that rather than buy the software themselves).
 
[quote name='usickenme']
Furthermore, Who cares how someone uses a computer?[/QUOTE]

I don't care about that. People can use a computer however they like.

It just rubs me the wrong way when people make uniformed decisions and waste money, and even more so when people are just buying things because of hype and image. That's just the anti-consumerist in me.

Macs are just one example of that as a lot of people who have them and don't use them for more than basic tasks like word processing, internet and e-mail could have gotten by with a lot cheaper machine.

Still their money and their decision. But factor in that many go into credit card debt to purchase things like computers and it's just one of many types of wasteful spending that lead to more bankruptcies etc. that effect us all indirectly.

And again, that's not exclusive to Mac as even more people buy more powerful PCs than the need given the size of the PC market and how well things like the XPS line sell.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']

And can't you get the better tech support by buying a warranty from Dell which is probably cheaper than paying more for an XPS if you don't need the extra power?[/QUOTE]

The XPS tech support is separate from the regular Dell tech support,
 
Fair enough. Like I said, I've never called PC tech support in my life, so moot for me. My needs are basic and if I get major issues I just format and reinstall windows. Hardware problems I just get a new computer (haven't had anything die within the warranty period, so no reason to call tech support.
 
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