Man shoots himself because of Bush re-election

u think anyone would have killed themselves if kerry won?
hellll nooo
they just would have died the old fashion way
in iraq
 
i didn't like either of the choices i had, so i didn't pick. i wouldn't had killed myself if kerry won and obviously i didn't since bush won. some people are just so stupid. if they hate the president that much they just need to move out of the US.
 
November 6, 2004, 7:11 PM EST

Distraught over the re-election of President George W. Bush, a Georgia man traveled to New York City, went to Ground Zero and killed himself with a shotgun blast, police said yesterday.

The suicide victim, Andrew Veal, 25, was discovered just before 8 a.m. yesterday when a worker for the Millennium Hotel looking at Ground Zero from an upper floor saw a man lying atop the concrete structure through which the 1 and 9 subway lines run.

The worker, thinking the man was sleeping, alerted colleagues and the Port Authority police were notified.

But when they got to Veal's body, they realized he had killed himself with a shot to the head from a .12-gauge shotgun.

No suicide note was found, but according to a Port Authority police source, family members said Veal, a registered Democrat, was despondent over Bush's defeat of Sen. John Kerry. A second source said Veal, who lived in Athens, Ga., and worked for the University of Georgia, was also adamantly opposed to the war in Iraq.

More than three years after the Sept. 11 terror attacks, Ground Zero remains a top tourist attraction, the site rife with symbolism.

Visitors there yesterday reacted in different ways to news of Veal's suicide. Bobbie Jensen, 54, a Republican from Phoenix, said that while she understood how Bush's victory disturbed those who dislike him, Ground Zero is not the place to act on those emotions.

"You can be upset about the war, about Bush, but this is a sacred place," she said. "You got to accept what happened and not kill yourself." But Frank Franca, an East Village artist and registered Democrat, suggested the suicide was symbolic.

"I'm very moved by it," he said. "Obviously, this person was devastated. I can see why he would come here."

Franca's friend, Jeffim Kuznetsov, a 25-year-old student from Russia who lives in Atlanta, said the suicide is evidence of how deeply many Americans were affected by Kerry's defeat.

"It's a national tragedy," he said. "This election is devastating to all who believe in democracy."

Another visitor to Ground Zero, Arushi Raval, 34, a businesswoman who lives in Chelsea, said Veal might have been active in campaigning for Kerry, only to taste defeat.

"Maybe he felt ineffective," she said of the victim. "You feel ineffective if you tried and it all failed.

"I know so many New Yorkers who are depressed over this."
Link

Just for the record I didn't supply the shotgun or the shell. I'm surprised that this is the only one I've heard of in the last week, I expected the herd to thin itself out a little more over this devistating defeat.
 
[quote name='Nirvanaguy777']how foolish of him, would kerry have been that good of a president I doubt it[/quote]

Lets not turn this into a better president debate....It's not that hard to be better than bush...
 
I think it's disappointing that some people will ridicule a man that obviously suffered from some mental illness. A man who suffered in such a painful way that it would drive him to kill himself because living was a worse alternative.

Very few people understand what can cause a man to try to end his life. To have so little consideration borders on shameful.
 
I say good riddance. The guy had a job was about to get married, but decides to drive a few hundred miles and kills himself in the name of protest, sounds like a waste of skin to me. Obviously someone forgot to tell him that in four years a new president will be elected.
 
If he was suicidal anyway, the least he could have done is use it as a proactive solution to the problem.

And that's all I'm going to say. I don't want to be visited by intimidating men in suits.
 
Suicide and depression are one thing, but extreme political protest is another. It's difficult to tell which this case represents, since he left no note. Typically, political protestors make no secret of the reason for their actions, since it kind of defeats the purpose of their sacrifice if nobody knows why they're making it. Despite the apparent political influences upon his depression, I'd chalk this up as the former: an individual's personal depression.
 
Thats really sad... I feel bad for him and his family. Especially his fiance.

[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']Very few people understand what can cause a man to try to end his life. To have so little consideration borders on shameful. [/quote]
Thats true and is reflected by a lot of the posts here. A lot of people don't give a shit until it happens to someone they know.
 
I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc
 
[quote name='Admiral Ackbar']I think it's disappointing that some people will ridicule a man that obviously suffered from some mental illness. A man who suffered in such a painful way that it would drive him to kill himself because living was a worse alternative.

Very few people understand what can cause a man to try to end his life. To have so little consideration borders on shameful.[/quote]
:applause:

It is truly an indicator of some people's value systems when they say the things they have on this board. I hate Republicans more than anything on this planet (except perhaps corporations, but the line is blurred there). I'm (I hope) rational enough to not do anything drastic. This person was not, and anyone who thinks that the only causal factor in this man's suicide happened on November 2nd ought to check themselves out of videogaming for a bit, and check into reading some psychology or sociology texts. I recommend "suicide" by Emile Durkheim.

On the other hand, you can continue gaming and keep your mouths shut about topics you know nothing about. There's a reason I don't put posts in forums about nascar, you know.

myke.
 
[quote name='mcmarc']I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc[/quote]

They better start in the Red states.
 
While the election may not have been the only factor, it seems like the main factor or at least the trigger. And it seems that gamers with no knowledge of the subject aren't the only ones who share the opinion

"I'm absolutely sure it's a protest," Mary Anne Mauney, Veal's supervisor at the lab, told The Daily News
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='mcmarc']I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc[/quote]

source? I don't disagree, I'm just curious where the precise date of 'july' comes from.

myke.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='mcmarc']I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc[/quote]

They better start in the Red states.[/quote]

You people are such sheep and believe everything you hear. For the record, the FACTS (not rhetoric) are:

A DEMOCRAT drafted a bill to bring back the draft shortly before the election.

REPUBLICANS forced a vote and overwhelmingly voted against it.

Get your facts straight, unless you really are just so hateful that you would rather spread lies about a President you don't like than actually participate in the political process of open debate the way our founding fathers intended.
 
[quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='mcmarc']I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc[/quote]

They better start in the Red states.[/quote]

You people are such sheep and believe everything you hear. For the record, the FACTS (not rhetoric) are:

A DEMOCRAT drafted a bill to bring back the draft shortly before the election.

REPUBLICANS forced a vote and overwhelmingly voted against it.

Get your facts straight, unless you really are just so hateful that you would rather spread lies about a President you don't like than actually participate in the political process of open debate the way our founding fathers intended.[/quote]

Read my lips: No new taxes.

Where are the troops coming from? (I'm really curious, chosen)
 
[quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='mcmarc']I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc[/quote]

They better start in the Red states.[/quote]

You people are such sheep and believe everything you hear. For the record, the FACTS (not rhetoric) are:

A DEMOCRAT drafted a bill to bring back the draft shortly before the election.

REPUBLICANS forced a vote and overwhelmingly voted against it.

Get your facts straight, unless you really are just so hateful that you would rather spread lies about a President you don't like than actually participate in the political process of open debate the way our founding fathers intended.[/quote]

Please state your source. If you are gonna counteract a rumor, with another rumor, you're just spreading bullshit all around instead of assisting.

I'm very sadden by the comment by Ms. Bobbie Jensen. It shows how far off the rest of the country is about Ground Zero. Even though it was our city and our people attacked, the rest of the country refuses to help us or support us through it.

In many ways, November 11th did not bond New Yorkers with the rest of the country but instead bonded New Yorkers together. Secession from the United States has been a hot topic lately because we know the rest of the country is only using our tradegy as an excuse to fight a war that does nothing to avenge our lost or to rebuild it.

We're getting over the Kerry loss, because we'll always been treated like shit by the rest of the nation. We get fine without you. I guess this young man was trapped in a place that was going to keep getting worse in his opinion.
 
[quote name='camoor'][quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='mcmarc']I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc[/quote]

They better start in the Red states.[/quote]

You people are such sheep and believe everything you hear. For the record, the FACTS (not rhetoric) are:

A DEMOCRAT drafted a bill to bring back the draft shortly before the election.

REPUBLICANS forced a vote and overwhelmingly voted against it.

Get your facts straight, unless you really are just so hateful that you would rather spread lies about a President you don't like than actually participate in the political process of open debate the way our founding fathers intended.[/quote]

Read my lips: No new taxes.

Where are the troops coming from? (I'm really curious, chosen)[/quote]

Good point. Has Bush said that? If there was a draft I think I already have one point against me(tendency towards flat footedness). I think that's one factor if I'm not mistaken.
 
[quote name='Pezdro'][quote name='chosen1s'][quote name='camoor'][quote name='mcmarc']I hope all of you who are draft age voted for Kerry. Looks like the draft is coming back in July.

marc[/quote]

They better start in the Red states.[/quote]

You people are such sheep and believe everything you hear. For the record, the FACTS (not rhetoric) are:

A DEMOCRAT drafted a bill to bring back the draft shortly before the election.

REPUBLICANS forced a vote and overwhelmingly voted against it.

Get your facts straight, unless you really are just so hateful that you would rather spread lies about a President you don't like than actually participate in the political process of open debate the way our founding fathers intended.[/quote]

Please state your source. If you are gonna counteract a rumor, with another rumor, you're just spreading bullshit all around instead of assisting.

I'm very sadden by the comment by Ms. Bobbie Jensen. It shows how far off the rest of the country is about Ground Zero. Even though it was our city and our people attacked, the rest of the country refuses to help us or support us through it.

In many ways, November 11th did not bond New Yorkers with the rest of the country but instead bonded New Yorkers together. Secession from the United States has been a hot topic lately because we know the rest of the country is only using our tradegy as an excuse to fight a war that does nothing to avenge our lost or to rebuild it.

We're getting over the Kerry loss, because we'll always been treated like shit by the rest of the nation. We get fine without you. I guess this young man was trapped in a place that was going to keep getting worse in his opinion.[/quote]

This draft bill "rumor" is pretty common knowledge. Even that funny Goggly website returns stuff like this from CBS News or if you prefer Fox News, maybe you like the washington times?

Secession? Forget it, I'll leave that argument for someone else.
 
[quote name='Pezdro']In many ways, November 11th did not bond New Yorkers with the rest of the country but instead bonded New Yorkers together. [/quote]

Dude, November 11th is totally this week.

just kidding.

myke.
 
meh. Rangel started that bill as a protest. The idea of a volunteer army is the idea of an army comprised of the poor (which means minorities).

I think his intention was to shove hypocrisy in people's faces, under the guise that many are willing to send poor kids to die, but military support goes to the shitter when a draft is mentioned.

It's the conept of prisons: most Americans like the idea of holding criminals in captivity, but nobody wants it near their house.

In short, methinks Rangel wanted to point out people's selfishness. Trust me, he's a muckraker like that.

myke.

CBS news I can handle (somewhat); Fox News is overseen by former Reagan administration member Roger Ailes, and the Washington Times is owned and overseen by the Revered Sun-Myung Moon. Both Ailes and Moon worship at the same neocon altar; anything related to them is suspect.
 
Ok now as far the draft argument. It was a scare tactic during the election used by both sides. Think about this, there are 1.4 million active men and women in the military. I know you'll want souces so here's the census bureau's information.

Now, we've lost between 1,000 and 1,500 troops since the Iraq war began. Do you realize how small a percentage of our military that is? Its about .1% of our active military. Understand this, I am in no way marginalizing their sacrifices, however, its not as if we've lost our entire military to the point where we need to institute a draft.

Edit- Sorry, didn't realize it but that 1.4 million number doesn't include National Guard.
 
I'm not certain how the right wing used it as a scare tactic, unless you mean that they jumped up and down and pointed at the Democrats screaming "They want to start a draft!!!"

But I don't recall that being the case.

myke.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']
CBS news I can handle (somewhat); Fox News is overseen by former Reagan administration member Roger Ailes, and the Washington Times is owned and overseen by the Revered Sun-Myung Moon. Both Ailes and Moon worship at the same neocon altar; anything related to them is suspect.[/quote]

Ok then MTV, Washington Post, and the NY Times all say the same thing as well.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I'm not certain how the right wing used it as a scare tactic, unless you mean that they jumped up and down and pointed at the Democrats screaming "They want to start a draft!!!"

But I don't recall that being the case.

myke.[/quote]

No, but before the rumors that the draft would start if Bush was reelected there was rumors that Kerry wanted to start the draft if he won. Like I said both sides used to.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue'][quote name='mykevermin']
CBS news I can handle (somewhat); Fox News is overseen by former Reagan administration member Roger Ailes, and the Washington Times is owned and overseen by the Revered Sun-Myung Moon. Both Ailes and Moon worship at the same neocon altar; anything related to them is suspect.[/quote]

Ok then MTV, Washington Post, and the NY Times all say the same thing as well.[/quote]
:D
 
LOVE THIS LOSER, SO GREAT!

One less loser to have kids and spread the dumbness. We already have 59 million of them, we really don't need anymore.
 
[quote name='cag1000']this should be national news everyday for the next four years so all the asshole republicans can be villified[/quote]


I can think of MANY other democrats that could have benefitted from his suicidal solution to the problem. And Cag1000, I don't think the dems need to use suicide guy to villify republicans. If they don't have a legitimate story, they'll just make shit up like usual.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Ok now as far the draft argument. It was a scare tactic during the election used by both sides. Think about this, there are 1.4 million active men and women in the military. I know you'll want souces so here's the census bureau's information.

Now, we've lost between 1,000 and 1,500 troops since the Iraq war began. Do you realize how small a percentage of our military that is? Its about .1% of our active military. Understand this, I am in no way marginalizing their sacrifices, however, its not as if we've lost our entire military to the point where we need to institute a draft.

Edit- Sorry, didn't realize it but that 1.4 million number doesn't include National Guard.[/quote]

Have to agree with the first part, both sides used that. But, even if we lost 0 troops, we'd still need a lot more than we have now. Today we have a major shortage of troops, there aren't nearly enough in Iraq now, and we need more to replace them once their tour is over (we can't extend them all forever). Most solutions do not involve a draft. Kerry wanted to involve NATO and more international troops, and expand the number of people in the military over time (the number of people the military can have at any time is set by congress, more people = more money). I don't know what Bush has planned but I hope he does something, its a major problem and it can't be ignored. Pulling trops from other countries and bases like Korea and Europe isn't going to be enough. The guideline until Bush Sr. was to keep enough resources ready at all times for 2.5 wars. We're stretched to the limit now. (This isn't bashing Bush, but he needs to do *something*).

Looking up at all of the ignorant comments about this poor man's death, I wonder why I even talk to half of you. Remind me not to feel too bad should tragedy befall you.
 
I love the Republicans who say "what a loser hahahahaha liberals are teh suxxxorz", yet if they posted on this board about losing a brother or father or son to suicide, they'd expect to get some support.

Get a life you losers! You're the problem with America today! Can't understand a tragedy before it happens to you!
 
I'm not so sure it was really a suicide.

One reason is that only an FBI or other government employee or port authprity could have gotten on to the site.
 
[quote name='camoor']I love the Republicans who say "what a loser hahahahaha liberals are teh suxxxorz", yet if they posted on this board about losing a brother or father or son to suicide, they'd expect to get some support.

Get a life you losers! You're the problem with America today! Can't understand a tragedy before it happens to you![/quote]

Good point. I haven't had a chance to comment on the original purpose of this thread yet. As far as all this joking about suicide (Michael Moore included, with his 17 reasons) I think its just disgusting. Everyone thinks its all a joking matter but that's probably because they have never been affected by it. Suicide is not a joking matter and it is not something that should be taken lightly. Obviously the guy that this article was aboiut had other dificulties in his life and he felt that he had no other choice.

It just plain makes me sick that everyone has been making these jokes since the election when they don't realize that there are many people out there who have lost a loved one to suicide.

I may have voted for Bush but that doesn't mean I would EVER celebrate someone's suicide. If you were a decent, caring human being you should have the same attitude.
 
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